Tumbleweed

I like the "he sees what goes on in training so is better judged" line of thinking. AFAIK, EPL points are still awarded for performances on the pitch. Not for training. And the problem is that we are pretty c**p on the pitch. Hence only 2 points. So, since I assume training is presumably still designed to support match days, we must also be pretty c**p at training. Therefore we might be better off entirely disregarding anything in training since it is obviously not working. As a result we must be just as well placed as DF to judge what is going wrong. And since there are thousands of us, and only one of him, statistically we are more likely to be right. So actually, the conclusion must be that any consensus reached on this board is probably more likely to be accurate. Regardless of anything seen at Colney. It's also interesting to listen to Darren Gough talking about his time with England cricket. Apparently Freddie Flintoff, the best Eng cricketer of his generation, was so bad at training that had selection been based on that he would never have got a game. So I'll continue to base my own opinions on what I see in point scoring meaningful match day performances. Which, at the moment, could perhaps be regarded as somewhat sub-optimal.

Most people can see that, and it is actually because I think many still admire his Champs level achievements that they want him to go with dignity and not after a terminal and increasingly vitriolic decline. It would be a parting borne out of tough love not derision or scorn. Well at least at the moment it would be......

Slightly off topic but Adrian Durham and Darren Gough were discussing the situation with Cantwell last night. As an aside, Durham mentioned that Grant Hanley had commented about the amount of time they spent in meeting rooms. It led me to wonder if part of the problem is too much rigid theory, and adherence to it, which is bamboozling the team and making what is intrinsically a simple game too complex. DF does appear to to be a stats fan, and it might help to explain what appears to be a lack of spontaneity at times.....

He'd be a fantastic acquisition. But our Ostrich-like management persist in putting up with failure so it's all, distressingly, rather academic.

There is no point winning the Champs if we are not going to compete in the PL. So, even if DF stays, and delivers a record third promotion, what on earth is the point??? Why celebrate something which is doomed to fail?

I fear the owners and Webber may think that because the Farke Out noise has been muted in the stadium, that he still has fan support . But if so I think they forget that actually most of us are pretty fond of him becuase of his past achievements in the Champs. But he is like an old poorly pet, sometimes it is indeed just kinder to put them out of their misery.

If its down to 300 people then DF makes, statistically, only 0.33% of the overall performance level. So could they do a cheeky job swap, perhaps with the guy who cooks the scampi, to see if that makes any difference for the Leeds game? Or does it mean we'd have to fire 299 people, but keep Farke, or maybe fire 151 as that is marginally more than an average chance of improvement? Or perhaps Ken Hairy is right and its all "I need to be seen to say something" claptrap......

Blaming Ben Gibson when we were already 5-0 down and not performing or looking remotely interested is quite extraordinary. It was the whole team and it wasn't the first time either. I like the Webber/ Farke combo but nothing lasts forever. To me Farke has lost the players completely, and Webber has his head in the sand, somehow hoping in the sort of turnaround I doubt the EPL has ever seen before, to justify the 4 year contract and his own blind faith. He is too right, it isn't acceptable and needs to accept that DF, sadly, is out of his depth, rather than deflecting onto fans and Gibbo. Webber and Farke just seem too close.

Kenfoggo earlier in the thread is right, the thrill of getting promoted is surely offset significantly by the thought that it is pretty pointless. I was pretty stupid this time, I was actually thinking we would do rather well this season having learnt the lessons, and that last time in the Prem was more of a blip. Silly me.

Haha TIL, you wonder why we have highly paid executives when, if something is not planned, it happens, and when it isn't planned it does. The only one getting it nearly right is Farke- he didn't expect any points at Chelsea and got it spot on.

Exactly. The fact that Farke can't get them motivated to bother against the Champions of Europe might have more to do with it than some bonkers conspiracy theory.

If we beat Leeds I'll be nice to the mother in law. For a few minutes at least. I think we are a long way from the "Beating Leeds could relegate us" nonsense we saw with Hughton. Then we actually had some hope of staying up.... I think pretty much everyone would be delighted, even the most ardent Farke or Delia-outist.

Brunel to dockyard: Lets build the Titanic. Oh dear its sunk. Lets build another one. Oh dear it has also sunk. After 47 Titanics have sunk Brunel says: Lets build another one. Sensible.

Mutual agreement to preserve dignity could be quite cheap, if DF agrees to that of course.

Very easy for the OP to pick one game or segment thereof to try to prove a point. But fortunately most are capable of seeing the fallacy of that. Over 47 Prem games, an element of consistency and statistical significance suggests that DF's team is performing at a rather sub optimal level.

It's really very simple. The team looks disorganised, disinterested, oddly selected, tacticly inept, not defending, not attacking, and not getting any points when that is rather the point of playing. Who is responsible? The manager. When things aren't going well you don't always need to over analyse everything and get bogged down in all the strategic stuff. Thats just an excuse to do nothing. Doing nothing is not an option here. No can of worms here, just one staff member out of his depth.

Short term 2. Medium term 3, longer term 4. I agree with cantiaci's post. I don't want to hear our coach publicly stating that we don't expect to win a particular game. What message does that send? No wonder the players couldn't be ar**d if that is the attitude. We need a coach who goes in looking to get the most out of every single match whoever they are, and remember: WE ARE IN THE EPL ON MERIT!! Farke needs to go now, we need to hope for some new manager bounce, and get some attitude back. Webber is going in the summer anyway, so that sorts that one out. No 4 is more complex.......

I don't personally know a single fellow City fan who doesn't really like DF as an individual and who has great appreciation for two promotions. But all my friends agree it is time to move on and all are pretty sad about it. Talking about it last night and today, nobody I have spoken to wanted it to end this way, we sort of assumed he would go by being poached into another job, but we all agree we don't want that long terminal decline we have seen with others, Farke does not deserve that.

Roy H would be a good shout until season's end. Let Webbers replacement then make the strategic longer term decision. I'd really like Chris Wilder but if as shefcanary says he needs to be close to Sheff it is a non starter, real shame. I like what Lampard has done, but would Delia go for a "name" who doesn't come across as a yes man. Those are the calibre we need to be looking at though, not some no-name step up untried here. But the one slight flaw is that we are still stuck with a lame duck incumbent.......

I hope LDC isn't a judge, we'd have people convicted/ acquitted without considering a shred of evidence. And that is the point. We are all upset/ angry/ whatever and all probably looking for signs that it is going to be ok. But there are none. Whatsoever. Last time in the EPL it was embarrassing. This time, remarkably, even worse. There is no evidence at all that this will improve, not one teeny tiny sign that Farke can turn this around. In fact all the evidence suggests it is going to get worse.

Jim- have you seen the video of some of Rashica's goals? Looks amazing, so I'd argue he is more than promising, but a really special player! There's Dowell, Mumba, Sorensen and of course Todd and Placheta. We should be a very entertaining team, with some vim and vigour, and I truly believe a squad strong enough to survive. That we scratch around and can only celebrate a point or two v Brighton and Burnley as highlights from a quarter of the season is laughable!

The problems run much deeper in my view. The failure to press or tackle, lack of real hunger and determination and complete disorganisation are all free to fix and agnostic of tactics or lineups. I sincerely feel we have the weapons to at least be competitive, but the abject callow showings at this level are purely down to the coaching staff and how the team is prepped for matches.

This is clearly Webbers biggest challenge. He meeds to show the guts to accept that Farke's time is done. He has probably got too friendly with the coach, but is he a man or a wimp?

All these lineups and formations will not one jot of difference make. Its pretty obvious that the issues are way way deeper than this.

Will the owners be happy with the club going down with no wins, a record low points total, record low goals scored and negative goal difference as well as a trashed reputation and a national joke? This is incompetence at a staggering level. If Carlsberg did relegations, this would be it......