JJ

Bloooobird, I think we''re relying on you guys being (a) tired (b) picking up injuries and (c) having a real off night. If you play to the best of your abilities, I can''t see us getting anything.  

[quote user="greenTshirt"] this is a good thread. I agree with OP and understand the frustrations of others. My view is that football has significantly changed in the last 20 years - week in week out we watch 22 overpaid mercenaries and four incapable blokes in black chase a ball around. Football has changed. Norwich City FC hasn''t and many of the fans havn''t and the club and many fans are living in a Roy of the Rovers nostalgic world (this applies to those anti and pro the board). [/quote] I certainly agree that the game has changed.  My view is nostalgic and I know we''ll never go back to the days when teams like Norwich, Swansea and Watford challenged for the league.  I just hate the fact now it is a closed shop between the ''Big Four''.  Look at well Everton and Villa have done, but it has taken them years to even get close to 4th place, let alone higher.  There''s no window for anybody to progress anymore, and when the UEFA cup is considered irrelevant by clubs who have a European history such as Spurs and Villa, then something is very wrong.  For what its worth, I think at worst we should be a Top 10 side in the Championship and at best we could be a side finishing between 7th and 10th in the Premier with a cup run to boot.  That''s as good as it will get sadly but I accept that.  

[quote user="rjwc22"] The loanees do not need an escape route as they have a contract at their parent club.  If anything all the players would be giving their all if they wanted to engineer a move as this would put them in the shop window. Either that or they already have nefarious plans to diminish their value by playing poorly in order to tempt Man Utd into making a surprise bid of £20 for them. [/quote] They''re hardly in the team anyway.  Most of the side recently has been permanent signings.  

[quote user="pete_norw"][quote user="First Wizard"] [quote user="Soton Canary"]Just been listening to this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPVn9eLOkF0&feature=related Does anyone know when this version died out and the modern ''chanted'' version began?  Is anyone old enough to remember the old version?  Seems to me that 24,000 people singing the older version of OTBC would make the hairs stand up on anyone''s neck...wonder why it''s not done anymore?  I reckon singing that just before kick-off, like you''ll never walk alone at Anfield, should really stir up players and fans alike...but perhaps I''m just old fashioned [/quote] I sang that with over 40,000 inside Carrow Road, spine tingling stuff, youngsters today have no idea! [/quote] Oh those wer the days Wiz, squashed up against the barrier on the Barclay, and when people moved just lift your feet and go with the flow, But I do believe we Nicked OTBC song from the Rugby league, brought a lump to the throat when the whole crowed sang it    [/quote] And also used by other local clubs before us apparently. http://www.edp24.co.uk/Content/Sport/CanaryCentenary/SongsMascots.asp  

[quote user="Evil"]Yellow Wall. You are absolutely spot on. Your opinions mirror mine exactly. Norwich City, along with many others, are a victim of circumstance and the morons that run the game. They can''t seem to see (or don''t want to) what damage they are doing to the sport. Even in ther USA, where money is always king, there are rules in place of their national sports, to stop what is happening in football in this country. I can remember, well before our glory days of the early 90''s, the likes of Swansea, Forest and Watford all challenging for the title. We were probably the last (coinciding with the advent of the Premier league). We will never see those days again. By all means, blame our board for some poor decision making over the last few years, but the likes of Murdoch, Scudamore and the idiots at the FA deserve far more abuse from all true football fans than they seem to be getting at the moment.[/quote] Its because of this that I''ve become very disilluisioned with the game at the top level.  I don''t think its simply a case of rose tinted glasses - yes, there always have been dominant clubs such as Liverpool, Man Utd, etc, but there was always a window for others to sneak in.  On top of Swansea, Forest and Watford, you had the likes of Palace, QPR and Ipswich challenging too.  Cup finals were contested and even won by Luton, Coventry, Oxford and Wimbledon.  How many cup finals (League or FA Cup?) have been contested or won by teams outside the ''Big 4'' in the last decade?  Last year''s maybe, but that was clearly a one-off. I look at Norwich (and other Championship clubs now) and think, "what are we fighting for".   A premiership relegation battle?  The heady heights of mid-table?  Even Europe is considered a no-no by some.  Bolton didn''t care last season, Villa and Spurs didn''t care this season, and even Steve Coppell of Reading said he didn''t want his side to qualify when they were flying high.  What''s the point?  What is the point of being there?  To get promoted and finish 12th year on year? Norwich has been run really badly the last few years, make no mistake, but that''s not the full story.  Sorry if that''s all a bit miserable but that''s how I feel.  [:(]  

I think we''re looking at that season through rose tinted glasses.  I posted this elsewhere but it was a poor season and the 9th place masqueraded the fact that we were dreadful away from home (remember the games at Luton, QPR, Derby and Preston?) plus it covered up some very poor and lucky home victories.  It was the real beginning of the decline and even decent playes like Hucks, McVeigh, Safri, etc had a hit and miss season (Doherty was player of the year). It was merely accelerated that summer by deciding to (a) keep Worthington and (b) having to decided to keep him, not give him any money to improve the squad. We pretty awful now, but that doesn''t suddenly turn players such as Hughes, Robinson, etc into good ones.  

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"] [quote user="We Want Lappin Back"]Bertrand at full back I would hope, with ideally Lappin in front of him to keep the solidity.[/quote] Keep the solidity !!!!!, are you Gunn in disguise???, I think it''s gone a bit beyond that now !, we''ve got two home games coming up now which are MUST wins. That means two out and out wingers and two strikers, if Gunn played Lappin on the left wing in a home match instead of either Hoolahan or Carney, then I think it might be time for me to stop watching this game. With the ridicuous hype Lappin has been getting since he last played for us ,if he does ever pull on a Norwich shirt again I think we are all going to expect Maradona to take to the field by the way he''s been built up on these message boards. Lappin is a very ordinary player, one of the few things Roeder got right. [/quote] I bet Maradona never scored a better free-kick than Lappin''s at Luton! [;)]  

[quote user="Old Shuck"]And yet we have been fed, interminably, just how good various people''s "little back books" are! Roeder was meant to be in with anyone and everyone, we all waited for his friendship with Wenger to benefit us. So we got Kieran Gibbs and played him on and off, since we went back, Wenger has played him as a left back, am sure I am not the only Norwich fan who thought he came here as a flying left winger! Gunny-well, hardly a paragraph seems to be written about Gunny without his ''relationship'' with Sir Alex Ferguson coming into it! The cream of the Man Utd youth would be coming here, and yet, and yet...well, Fabian Brandy went to Hereford! This is despite the fact that Gunny was Fergie''s reserve goalie over twenty years ago! I don''t think Sir Fergs actually does have a special place in his heart for Gunny, despite what we are told! So he baby sitted for him-whoopie-bloody do-dah! If we are going to HAVE to have loan signings in Div 1 next season, then lets have no more than two, and make them quality ones, not reserves from clubs in the same league as us FFS. Still, maybe MK Dons will do us a favour next season and let us have one of their youngsters to gain some experience in a lower division![/quote] Worse than that.  We played him in centre-midfield as well!  Played again at LB for Arsenal yesterday. The ''little black book'' has been done to death in the last few years (even Worthington was harping on a couple of years ago about getting Arsenal kids in - he never did).  I can remember also last season, the media trumpeting John Hartson as Gunny''s big coup.  That went quiet very quickly... Anybody remember our ''special relationship'' with Parma too?  

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="JJ"] This is one of the most depressing threads I have read on here for some time.  I cannot believe that so many people thought Chase was a good thing (although seeing as he''s in the Hall of Fame perhaps I shouldn''t be surprised). We were successful despite Chase not because of him.  He sold players behind the managers backs and he sold players behind their own backs (step foward Andy Linighan).  We didn''t push the boat out when we were on the verge of winning the titles in 89 and 93 and he forced the hands of Walker and O''Neill.  He constantly went back on his word and he patronised the supporters constantly.  By the end of his reign he had brought the club to the point of civil war which had seen police horses on the streets, protests outside the ground, a boycott inside the ground, and the finances into meltdown.  Lots of people walked away for a long time and some never came back.  It also destroyed our Youth policy for years because so many cuts had to be made. Perhaps the only individual associated with Norwich that I can say I genuinely hated.  I can''t even say that about the current board. [/quote] What a load of twaddle you do talk. Pity that we''re not successful despite Delia Smith. Dear oh dear oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear. Do you call Canary Talk, by the way? OTBC   [/quote] No I don''t.  Neither do I support the current board.  Nor do I spout revisionist rubbish like people on this forum.  

[quote user="Buckethead"][quote user="JJ"] This is one of the most depressing threads I have read on here for some time.  I cannot believe that so many people thought Chase was a good thing (although seeing as he''s in the Hall of Fame perhaps I shouldn''t be surprised). We were successful despite Chase not because of him.  He sold players behind the managers backs and he sold players behind their own backs (step foward Andy Linighan).  We didn''t push the boat out when we were on the verge of winning the titles in 89 and 93 and he forced the hands of Walker and O''Neill.  He constantly went back on his word and he patronised the supporters constantly.  By the end of his reign he had brought the club to the point of civil war which had seen police horses on the streets, protests outside the ground, a boycott inside the ground, and the finances into meltdown.  Lots of people walked away for a long time and some never came back.  It also destroyed our Youth policy for years because so many cuts had to be made. Perhaps the only individual associated with Norwich that I can say I genuinely hated.  I can''t even say that about the current board.   [/quote] Ironic really that ten years after he was pushed out we received £6m from him, which is far more than the amount Delia has ever spent on shares in the Club. I disagree wholeheartedly about the youth policy though, you are forgetting the likes of Bellamy, Kenton, Green, Rusty, Llewellyn and others all came from the youth team in the late ''90''s. Any failure in the youth policy (and IMO it has been a catastrophic failure responsible in no small part for our current predicament) has happened whilst Delia Smith has been in charge. [/quote] [quote user="Buckethead"][quote user="JJ"] This is one of the most depressing threads I have read on here for some time.  I cannot believe that so many people thought Chase was a good thing (although seeing as he''s in the Hall of Fame perhaps I shouldn''t be surprised). We were successful despite Chase not because of him.  He sold players behind the managers backs and he sold players behind their own backs (step foward Andy Linighan).  We didn''t push the boat out when we were on the verge of winning the titles in 89 and 93 and he forced the hands of Walker and O''Neill.  He constantly went back on his word and he patronised the supporters constantly.  By the end of his reign he had brought the club to the point of civil war which had seen police horses on the streets, protests outside the ground, a boycott inside the ground, and the finances into meltdown.  Lots of people walked away for a long time and some never came back.  It also destroyed our Youth policy for years because so many cuts had to be made. Perhaps the only individual associated with Norwich that I can say I genuinely hated.  I can''t even say that about the current board.   [/quote] Ironic really that ten years after he was pushed out we received £6m from him, which is far more than the amount Delia has ever spent on shares in the Club. I disagree wholeheartedly about the youth policy though, you are forgetting the likes of Bellamy, Kenton, Green, Rusty, Llewellyn and others all came from the youth team in the late ''90''s. Any failure in the youth policy (and IMO it has been a catastrophic failure responsible in no small part for our current predicament) has happened whilst Delia Smith has been in charge. [/quote] The kids you mention came mostly from the 1996 crop who were already coming through towards the end of Chase''s reign.  The cuts came in afterwards.  I''m not defending our academy''s record in the last few years - its awful, but Chase''s legacy set us back for a while. There seems to be a misunderstanding on this thread that I''m defending Delia Smith and the board at the expense of Chase.  I''m not.  The club has been run incredibly badly in both eras.  

The bigger clubs will always get the best youngsters.  Difference is now that they get them a lot sooner, whereas in the past the smaller clubs would be able to keep hold for a few seasons first.  Look at Southampton and Palace - they''ve lost young talent that barely played many games for them.  Cardiff lost Ramsay and will probably lose Ledley.  We''ve had Chelsea sniffing round Rudd too.  Christ, even Everton lost Rooney before he was 20!  

This is one of the most depressing threads I have read on here for some time.  I cannot believe that so many people thought Chase was a good thing (although seeing as he''s in the Hall of Fame perhaps I shouldn''t be surprised). We were successful despite Chase not because of him.  He sold players behind the managers backs and he sold players behind their own backs (step foward Andy Linighan).  We didn''t push the boat out when we were on the verge of winning the titles in 89 and 93 and he forced the hands of Walker and O''Neill.  He constantly went back on his word and he patronised the supporters constantly.  By the end of his reign he had brought the club to the point of civil war which had seen police horses on the streets, protests outside the ground, a boycott inside the ground, and the finances into meltdown.  Lots of people walked away for a long time and some never came back.  It also destroyed our Youth policy for years because so many cuts had to be made. Perhaps the only individual associated with Norwich that I can say I genuinely hated.  I can''t even say that about the current board.  

I''ve said it on another thread - the full-backs.  

They cut it fine mind you.  At Xmas they were heading for mid-table in the old Div 2 before a run took them to the play-offs.  They were 0-2 down in the final to Gillingham with ONE MINUTE to go, before eventually winning on pens. Such a close call.  I wonder how much the course of football history would have changed?  

I hope whatever happens, Bryan steps down at the end of the season.  If we stay up, then he''s a hero and can finish on a high note.  If we go down, history will be kind to him, and he won''t be seen as the chief culprit. Keeping him will bear the hallmark of an emotional decision rather than a footballing one.  

Pattison didn''t figure in Roeder''s final two games and was woeful in the home game against Forest at Xmas, but looked on fire when he came on against Barnsley.  He''s pretty much vanished since then, but I''m unsure if he''d really make much difference to the side. As for Russell, he''s better than Fozzy, not quite as good as Clingan and about the same level as Pattison.  We really haven''t had a decent midfield since the Holt/Francis days.  

[quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="mystic megson is back "] [quote user="lucky green trainers"] lets not make the same mistake as when we got relegated from the prem - and continue to pay the players on the same rate  [/quote] We didn''t, if the club is to be believed.  We were told at the time that when we were promoted they were offered new deals with an automatic wage cut if we didn''t stay up.   [/quote] did a spot of citizen journo mm...copied the below quote off a blog,,,not sure how reliable it is - but i''m sure i heard the same at the time - so thats why i posted it/// "the board believed that it should back the judgement of former manager Nigel Worthington and did so, sanctioning player wages during 2005/6 which were only marginally lower than during our year in the Premier League". [/quote] Interesting if true.  Makes me wonder if the signings we made that summer (Hughes, Jarrett, Louis-Jean, etc) were on a similar pay-scale.  

[quote user="jbghost"][quote user="JJ"] [quote user="Evil Monkey"]Glad to see only a minority of people here think its a good idea - mentions of ''factions'' is somewhat sinister and a throwback to the 80s... Leeds did it a few years ago when Ipswich all-but relegated them on the penultimate weekend but the FA did nothing, for which they were roundly criticised.  Can''t see them letting another club get away with it, which would really be the final nail in our already well-nailed coffin.  It was also make bugger all difference to how Delia and co. see the fans because it will only ever be a minority on the pitch and that fact will get spun until other fans and the media forget it even existed... [/quote] In an ideal world, a peaceful pitch invasion would be satisfactory, but these days a pitch invasion is seen as akin to committing murder.  Most fans would be too scared to do it, because nowadays it carries the threat of a ban, arrest, police caution, etc, so at the end of the day, is it ultimately worth it?   Also, the club would get fined, the fans (not the board) would get lots of bad publicity, and it wouldn''t make the board leave.  That''s not to say I disagree with protest of some form.  Its just that this won''t be it. And we did invade the pitch at Crewe in 2004 - but that seemed to have everyone''s blessing!  [:D]   [/quote] If you remember we were told to keep off the pitch at the end of the game. Once the lap of honour had been completed we were told over the loudspeaker that we were allowed on the pitch so it was technically not a pitch invasion. To go onto the pitch is an actual criminal offence which if you are found guilty gives you a criminal record. It just aint worth it. [/quote] All I remember is a few guys ran on at the final whistle and got thrown out.  I was getting ready to leave after the lap of honour when some Crewe fans charged over (I was in the front row) and despite expecting a thump, they started shaking people''s hands.  Everyone started running on, so I just joined in.   Don''t actually remember hearing the loudspeaker allowing us to do it. As its the only time I''ve ever done it, I''m still going to call it a pitch invasion (but I''m not calling myself a criminal!)  

[quote user="Evil Monkey"]Glad to see only a minority of people here think its a good idea - mentions of ''factions'' is somewhat sinister and a throwback to the 80s... Leeds did it a few years ago when Ipswich all-but relegated them on the penultimate weekend but the FA did nothing, for which they were roundly criticised.  Can''t see them letting another club get away with it, which would really be the final nail in our already well-nailed coffin.  It was also make bugger all difference to how Delia and co. see the fans because it will only ever be a minority on the pitch and that fact will get spun until other fans and the media forget it even existed... [/quote] In an ideal world, a peaceful pitch invasion would be satisfactory, but these days a pitch invasion is seen as akin to committing murder.  Most fans would be too scared to do it, because nowadays it carries the threat of a ban, arrest, police caution, etc, so at the end of the day, is it ultimately worth it?   Also, the club would get fined, the fans (not the board) would get lots of bad publicity, and it wouldn''t make the board leave.  That''s not to say I disagree with protest of some form.  Its just that this won''t be it. And we did invade the pitch at Crewe in 2004 - but that seemed to have everyone''s blessing!  [:D]  

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"] Only if your memory stretches back beyond the Robert Chase years can you properly gauge his tenure. If however you came on board at the tail end of his chairmanship (thus getting sucked in by the "Saviour Smith" nonsense spun by the media) you will have a very distorted view of him. The Chase years were great years as a supporter. Top quality players led by top quality managers leading the team to success unthinkable only a few years before. The Chase years gave the supporters massive pleasure and whatever happened later cannot (or should not) be allowed to cloud those memories. [/quote] It only gave me pleasure on the pitch.  He was always a dark presence in the background and was widely disliked by a number of fans even during the glory days.  I remember going to supporters meetings and hearing him making promises that he always turned back on (like keeping the River End as a terrace for one more season - which he quickly reneged on in the summer).  There was the mistake of housing away fans in the Barclay Upper, which he had been warned about but didn''t listen.  The Inter Milan ticket fiasco, the thuggish behaviour of the stewards when the Barclay became all-seater, the "if Chris Sutton is not here" statement, losing Mike Walker and Martin O''Neill, and so on and so on... I don''t like the current board but I will never forgive Robert Chase for the way he brought the club to its knees.  

We WILL be back one day.  What goes around comes around, but it might be a long time.  What''s really scary is when you look at how long teams have been out of the top flight.  It took Stoke 23 years, WBA 16 years, Wolves 19 years and the list goes on.  We''ve now been gone 4 years already and counting.  

If you think this message board gets heated over Delia, Doncaster, Munby, etc, it would have absolutely melted down if it had been around in the days of Chase.  

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]Think it might take some time yet CA. During the Chase Out era the papers only starting turning right at the end. It''s all to do with sales and as someone else mentioned they are cost cutting so probably don''t see anything happening at NCFC as a priority. I suspect there are still a huge number of fans who don''t see the board in a bad light and amazingly some who couldn''t even name anyone else on it bar Delia. Shame really, Archant up against the PR factory at the club would be interesting to say the least.[/quote] The press will change once they feel the mood is right (soon probably) and as you say, when they can justify maximum sales from it.  I can certainly remember even during the darkest days of Chase, the local media didn''t turn straight away.  

However bad the current board are, they are not even close to how bad Robert Chase was.  

Oh yes.  They''re so bad I couldn''t even mention them by their name!