Loan Signings

[Tetteys Jig 851]

What do people think of the loan market? Will it be any use to us this year and indeed this summer?

Whilst I obviously prefer permanent players I do think we''d be missing a trick if we didn''t manage to use our loan allocations to bring in some of the premierships finest unnurtured talent. It''s the one way we can get some potential top quality players.

Anyone got any shouts who we could get on loan?

My shouts are:

Nathanial Chalobah (CM) - All action midfielder who did well at Boro last season and whilst still young, he''s got a very bright future. Maybe Redmond has made friends with him on Int''l duty and could sway him?

Serge Gnabry (AML) - Maybe slightly less realistic but he''s at a stage with Arsenal now where he''s on the verge of the first team but maybe needs some experience somewhere before they put faith in more regular games for him. He has an ever increasing amount of competition and if there are no premiership clubs after him or if Arsenal would rather he played for a team (hopefully) winning more games, he could be a great option to link the midfield and strikers?

Nick Powell (AMC) - Perhaps ready for a go at the premiership after his time with Wigan last year but he''d be a good shout as an option in attacking mid in a 4-5-1, he can score, has a good engine and can pick a pass.

Michael Keane (CB) - Towering defender on the verge of the Man U squad, he had a very productive spell at Blackburn last season and knows where the back of the net is as an added bonus. He might get a bit of premiership interest but if not, i''d be very happy to see him join us on loan.

James Wilson (ST) - We are probably well stocked up front and we have had our fingers burnt before on signing promising forwards before they are ready on loan with the now reasonably decent Harry Kane. Wilson had a very strong end to last season and looks destined for big things, perhaps if we face a striker exodus he''d be a strong shout?

Leads us on to...

Harry Kane (ST)

He wasn''t ready for the rigours of premiership football last time arguably but don''t forget he got injured and barely got a second chance after a frustrating but promising first showing versus West Ham. He proved last season he has the goods to score at any level and again if there are no interested premiership teams or if Spurs see fit, he could come to us if we find ourselves short?

Gustavo Varela (RB) - One more from the books of Man U. If we decide that Martin or Whittaker aren''t really up to it, Varela has a lot of promise and needs games sharpish.

Luke Garbutt (LB) - Promising Everton youngster who had a decent spell at Colchester before Oviedo''s injury meant he had to go back to Everton to cover Baines. If we were to lose Olsson or Garrido, Garbutt would be very useful cover. Maturity that belies his years.

Any further suggestions?

[Yellowbeagle 0]

Would rather give game time to our own youngsters rather than loan in someone else''s. Not against loans but feel they work best when brining in someone else''s experienced fringe player.

[DistantCanary 0]

I would much rather see some of our FA Youth Cup winning youth team to be given a chance this season rather than provide experience to other clubs youngsters.

[NCFCgardener 0]

Bringing in youngsters from other premier league clubs has not worked well for us in the past, you could count the successes on 1 hand. We have promising youngsters of our own that we can give a chance to.

It appears that you have just gone through the big Prem clubs, picked out some players who have a good reputation and assumed they are better than what we have.

Nathanial Chalobah (CM) - Chelsea

Serge Gnabry (AML) - Arsenal

Nick Powell (AMC) - Man U

Michael Keane (CB) - Man U.

James Wilson (ST) - Man U

Harry Kane (ST) - Spurs

Gustavo Varela (RB) - Man U

Luke Garbutt (LB) - Everton

[Guest]

Apart from the playing ability, I often wonder how loan signings fit in with the other players.

It must be hard for players at a club when new signings come in to perhaps replace them in the manager''s plans. But you assume a new player has joined out of choice.

But how do they react when a stranger comes in for a loan period? I would suspect the loanee has not moved out of choice but because there was no choice.

How does the manager and captain integrate that player into the squad when the player he is probably replacing might be a bit upset? And maybe his mates in the squad are upset also?

I can envisage loan signings creating friction. And for that reason I am not a fan of them.

[ZLF 335]

for me loan signings are no different to permanent once when it comes to purpose and integration;   some work,  some don''t (and we have excellent example of both permanent signings and loanees who have and have not worked out over the last couple seasons)   but the objective for both is to improve the quality of the squad.   A permanent signing can introduce as much friction to a squad as a loanee - the same change in dynamics can and do happen,  whether they click is more down to the individual, the squad and the management team than the nature of the contract.  

 

There are pros and cons for each type of signing.     I am sure we will make loan signings this season,  if they improve our playing squad cost effectively then I am all for them.  The key is that they are better than we have, and thats the same of a permanent signing too.    To ignore them could put us at a disadvantage.

 

 

 

 

[MancCanary 0]

Young loan players not been good for us?

What about:

Kyle Naughton

Daniel Pacheco

Henri Lansbury

Fraser Forster

Kieran Gibbs

Ryan Bertrand?

All been pretty damn good in recent years. It''s good for cover, and if they can prove themselves and take the place of a senior player then so be it.

With regards to our own young players, yes I too would like some of them to be given a try, but the types of players I''ve listed above are generally a little further down the line in their development than the likes of McGeehan, Morris, Loza etc are currently.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

I don''t mean go and buy a whole host of them, and I do want to give our youth a chance, but there are some genuinely world class players of the future that will be let out to the championship on loan this season and we should look at bringing in one or two. They will add quality where we can''t attract a permanent option or look at our current squad to provide.

People with talents like Gnabry don''t go to the likes of us permenantly very often but we are a useful loan option for them. As long as they play well, does it matter that we are a stepping stone for us?

Think about it this way, we''re 0-0 with Rotherham and it''s the 60th minute, we''re struggling to get by them and so we send on a guy we''ve bought from League 1 to try open them up but he doesn''t have the unpredicability that was needed to open Rotherham up and we draw 0-0.

In a parallel universe, we bring Gnabry on, he does some clever flick round the big Millers defender and lays it on a plate for Grabban to bag the winner.

Look at what Lampard, Terry, Sturridge and Wilshere did early in their careers. The latter two basically kept Bolton in the premiership two years longer than they should have been.

A good example is that of Seamus Coleman, who was instrumental in Blackpools promotion.

Admittedly it''s a gamble, but it''s not an expensive one and if they prove not ready or not very good, we stick with our other options. It''s better to have options though and I doubt a lot of these guys have signed their big money pro deals yet.

As for our loan successes, I understand people would be apprehensive after the Roeder farce, but looking back the last few years, i''d say the following were successful:

Forster, Pacheco, Lansbury, Ched Evans, Bertrand, Barnett (initially a loan), a few of the cover options like Matthew Rose, Vokes, Martin Taylor were alright too.

Now someone try tell me we could have got a better keeper than Forster permenantly then or had better in our squad?

Obviously I don''t want 15 loan players descending on us, but for teams that want to send their players out and don''t want them playing in the premiership, we are probably the best english option.

Do people really think a Nick Powell or a Nathanial Chalobah or two would upset the dressing room and not add quality?

[BigFish 2,282]

Huckerby & Crouch didn''t turn out too bad!

[Old Shuck 291]

Would be very happy to see Nick Powell here for a season.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]What do people think of the loan market?[/quote]Why don''t you ask your mate Portman-King Jimmy, he would know all about loan signings and you''ve asked fo his advice before...

[Tetteys Jig 851]

I''m sure if he reads this, he''ll leave an informed reply. Have Ipswich had any useful loanees recently? I suppose they are in the same boat as us in that we''re both a fair way from any of the clubs we''d be getting the young players from. It''s a good and bad thing I guess. They may get homesick if they''re with us a season but It might do them good to get out of the city/ town they''ve been living with their parent club at.

Nick Powell has gone from Crewe to Man U to Wigan. He can realistically just stay in the same town to play for all three of them. If he came to us, he''d have a big commitment of living in Norfolk for a year.

As a young lad, i''ve done both. I moved to Newcastle for Uni and then stayed at home for post grad at Leeds. The Newcastle experience was far better for me, getting out of the comfortable environment at home forced me to embrace Uni life in Newcastle and it did me good. Second time round at Leeds, it wasn''t as good. I didn''t integrate as well with the other course mates as I had all my home based friends to hang out with still and it probably didn''t help my time there.

Some people are different though and prefer keeping their distance and getting on with the job at hand without distractions. It certainly did Chris Martin good to get out of the bubble.

What about you Lappin, what do you think of the loan market? Are we "too good" at this level to use it or something?

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]What about you Lappin, what do you think of the loan market?[/quote]I don''t like it and we don''t need it. Let''s not develop other club''s players but concentrate on our own.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="MancCanary"]Young loan players not been good for us?

What about:

Kyle Naughton

Daniel Pacheco

Henri Lansbury

Fraser Forster

Kieran Gibbs

Ryan Bertrand?

All been pretty damn good in recent years. It''s good for cover, and if they can prove themselves and take the place of a senior player then so be it.

With regards to our own young players, yes I too would like some of them to be given a try, but the types of players I''ve listed above are generally a little further down the line in their development than the likes of McGeehan, Morris, Loza etc are currently.[/quote]

We have a FA cup winning youth team and currently a squad full of players who have pretty much all had decent periods at some point in the premier league. Those players you''ve listed were no further down the line in their development than the likes Murphy or Redmond, apart from maybe Naughton but he was 23 when played for us. In a year or two''s time we may find ourselves in a different situation were we again need to bulk out our squad with prem teams youngsters, I dont think there is any need for it currently, unless maybe the odd short term loan later in the season.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

Id be very pleased if we didnt make any loan signings this season. Not against them, but just not for this season. Would prefer us to make some permanent recruits or give our own youngsters a chance to develop rather than someone elses. We have Academy 1 status, which I believe costs us 2 million a year to run. We need to justify that cost and set-up by trying to make some first team players out of the current crop. If a crop who recently won the youth cup dont have first team potential then which crop are going to? Blood the youngsters, create the room in the youth team for the new youngsters coming through, and lets hope we get some propagation.

I firmly believe Neil Adams has been appointed for exactly this reason (amongst others). The club wants to see some fruit from its investment, in the way Southampton have had. Pretty sure they feel Adams is the guy to get this going, and for the youngsters, relegation could have been the best thing that could have happened

[Fromage Frais 14]

I don''t mind loans but to fill a gap rather than the foundation of a side.

What is the equivalent of a Crouch or a Huckerby now...

Your talking about a proven premier league quality player who we can get in to make a difference with the outside bet he may want to stay.

For example we are top 6 and Sigurdsson wants to come no problem we blow millions but its rolling the dice to get even more.

As for blooding arsenals/manchester united''s youngsters no thanks we have our own.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

Southampton didn''t completely ignore the loan market though.

Very true, they gave the likes of The Ox his chance and I''d hope if any of our lot are even half as talented as him, they will be first choice come the first match in August.

I think we should only look at the real cream of the crop this summer in terms of loanees.

If we can get ourselves a Gnabry or a Chalobah for a year for just the cost of their small wages then i''m all for it. I would say no to the rest of the suggestions I made at the moment.

When the window ends and clubs name their 25 man squads, there will be some good players left out and then we could use it as some of our players will have been sussed out at this level or got injured and we''ll have an even better idea of where we need to strengthen. It would work the same way the Leon Barnett deal worked.

We have a lot of options, as we have a crop of very promising youth players but it''s impossible to know just how good they are. I suppose only the coaching staff will be best informed in that department. It''s a vulnerable age for a player. Don''t forget that Gareth Bale was very nearly released by Southampton at first!

The one I really hope develops out of the lot is Carlton Morris. He looks every ounce the perfect target man. Kind of like Stan Collymore in his pomp. Loza may be older and already an international and so may get his day before Morris though. Perhaps we should loan him out to a club willing to take on a potential great talent that their smaller club cannot attract without loanees...

[Indy 3,471]

Loan signigs should only ever be made to IMPROVE the starting 11 or to get in younger players with a view to signing them permenant, if these are not met then we end up with loaning the like of Elmander & Gut who were about as useful as a paper umbrella in a rain storm!

 

We wold have ben better off playin some of the youth players.

 

I''m never keen on loan players to fill a squad, not thanks it has to be to push the first 11.

[GJP 79]

For me it''s just about getting the best player/players to give us the best chance of having a successful season.

 

If the best candidate in a certain area of the pitch is a loan then you''ve got to look at it.

 

Would any of us have chosen RVW or Hooper ahead of Lukaku for a season?

[Tetteys Jig 851]

[quote user="Indy"]

Loan signigs should only ever be made to IMPROVE the starting 11 or to get in younger players with a view to signing them permenant, if these are not met then we end up with loaning the like of Elmander & Gut who were about as useful as a paper umbrella in a rain storm!

 

We wold have ben better off playin some of the youth players.

 

I''m never keen on loan players to fill a squad, not thanks it has to be to push the first 11.

[/quote]

Precisely, with the exception of the odd short term cover. I would hope our youth team players can provide most of this though.

[NCFCgardener 0]

[quote user="MancCanary"]Young loan players not been good for us?

What about:

Kyle Naughton

Daniel Pacheco

Henri Lansbury

Fraser Forster

Kieran Gibbs

Ryan Bertrand?

All been pretty damn good in recent years. It''s good for cover, and if they can prove themselves and take the place of a senior player then so be it.

With regards to our own young players, yes I too would like some of them to be given a try, but the types of players I''ve listed above are generally a little further down the line in their development than the likes of McGeehan, Morris, Loza etc are currently.[/quote]

Kyle Naughton - Give you that one

Daniel Pacheco - A favourite with the fans for sure, but he didnt set the world alight. Remembered mainly for scoring against Ipswich. Signed same day as Sam Vokes, remember him, me neither.

Henri Lansbury - On the whole a good signing with some critical contributions so agree.

Fraser Forster - Give you that one

Kieran Gibbs - Only played 7 times and if memory serves only came good in the last couple of games, gone on and done well but dont think he can be considered a successful signing for us.

Ryan Bertrand? - Give you that one.

So I make that 4,I said I could count them on 1 hand. We have had some pretty dire ones too.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

Ched Evans, Leon Barnett, Martin Taylor, Darren Huckerby, Peter Crouch, Kevin Harper. There is 6 more for you in the last 10 years. That makes it one per season and that''s without considering the ones that did ''alright'' like Rose, Vokes, Elliott, Bentley, Pacheco, Gibbs.

That means we get one good one and one that makes a decent contribution per season. I''d take that next season. One to add some quality to our midfield and one to plug a gap at the back without breaking the bank.

I present to you Serge Gnabry and Michael Keane!

[MancCanary 0]

NCFCgardener - yes we have had some dire ones too. I''d say the ratio of good to bad is pretty much the same as with permanent signings though.

I think we can all agree that the only ones we would want in are those who are top of the class, who can really add to the team.

Like Jimmy pointed out - who would say no to Lukaku?

It has to be a balance - we blood the best of our youth players, but not too many - and we balance this with the best of our senior players - and if we can get a loanee in who has the talent to keep a senior player out of the team, we use them too.

[Fleckys Flip-Flop 0]

I think we all got scared off the loan market during Roeder''s tenure. But it is a useful tool and certainly one we shouldn''t overlook. We do have a good crop of youngsters, that''s for sure. But I would really like to see Morris, McGeehan, Jacob Murphy and the like go out on loan and play some league 1 or 2 football to really cut their teeth before we consider starting the. We could use the loan market to fill the ''gaps'' left in the squad by their absence. How big those gaps are isn''t immediately obvious though. That will depend on how the summer goes.

[Yelloow Since 72 56]

Luton are desperate to get Cam McGeehan back on loan next year and the experience seems to have helped his game. Morris is another candidate but I wonder if Adams may want to keep Jacob as cover with gradual exposure like Josh had this year.

[Bill 1,788]

What is forgotten is just how different we are now to those days.For one we did not have the high quality of youth players coming through we now haveWe certainly did not have the excellent quality of squad players we have now, accepting that some will leaveAnd very importantly we did not have the huge amounts of money compared to other Championship clubs as we have now. A rough guide is that we will have FOUR times the amount our impoverished neighbours will have, and a far greater sum than that multiple against of many other clubs.Obviously nothing will be ruled out, but I do think some on here should look at why we used PL loanees previously - it ain''t the same now.

[Daz Sparks 1,558]

Question for City 1st, and before you wade in with personal attacks and or put downs, just consider that I am merely asking a question, not casting any slight in your direction.

What I want to know, is the reason why a large proportion of your posts, regardless of the thread subject have references to Ipswich in them?