What would it take?

[lake district canary 4,836]

What would it take to change your mind about Hughton?  There are those that have said all along that CH isn''t the man for us.  There are those that said he definitely is the man.  Some of the Hughton in posters are starting to waiver.  So is it approaching crunch time for all of us?

If the team gets 8 points from the next four games, scoring average 2 goals per game  - would that be enough?  That''s two home wins and two away draws.  That would make me more certain in my views that he is up to the job.   Would that kind of turn around be enough for the long term doubters?

What would it take for you to accept Hughton as the right man for the job?   

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

Not to steal you''re thunder but I kinda started this thread yesterday ''What does Hughton have to achieve to get supporters on side''. Not trying to be the forum police though

[TCCANARY 263]

Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action.

Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day.

Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd.

Write Grant Holt a letter of apology.

Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems.

Become taller.

Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club.

Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested.

Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it.

Save a child from a burning building.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

GMD makes a fair point, Lakey. We went through all this yesterday.

But, just to show willing, I''ll repeat what I said then. Simple, really....START WINNING FOOTBALL MATCHES.

[lake district canary 4,836]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Not to steal you''re thunder but I kinda started this thread yesterday ''What does Hughton have to achieve to get supporters on side''. Not trying to be the forum police though[/quote]

Ah!  [:$]   Apologies. Didn''t see that one.

[Nuff Said 5,973]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Not to steal you''re thunder but I kinda started this thread yesterday ''What does Hughton have to achieve to get supporters on side''. Not trying to be the forum police though[/quote]

Ah!  [:$]   Apologies. Didn''t see that one.

[/quote]http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/3007966/ShowPost.aspxWorth finding for TCCanary''s post.

[Dubai Mark 0]

I''ll reply as have no problem with a bit of duplication, its just a message board at the end of the day. To your question LDC, its very simple for me, I would probably very reluctantly change my stance "if" we find ourselves in the bottom three after Christmas and a few points adrift (let''s say more than 4 points) from the team one place above the bottom three. I say "very reluctantly" because when CH joined our club I really wasnt that keen, but I genuinely believe he has done a very decent job since and should we go down feel he would actually be very capable of bouncing us back up immediately........BUT, knowing the way things work with a lot of our fans this just wouldnt be what would happen.

[cornish sam 1,040]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action.

Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day.

Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd.

Write Grant Holt a letter of apology.

Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems.

Become taller.

Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club.

Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested.

Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it.

Save a child from a burning building.

[/quote]

 

I personally am not a Hughton outer, I think that there are very promising signs and ultimately we are only 3 points off the top half (not "nestled in the relegation zone" as some put it, as though we are making a cosy little bed for ourselves down there), but the injuries that we''ve currently got has me thinking that his time is limited unfortunately...

 

However, I had to post purely to comend TC for his response

[a1canary 0]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action.

Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day.

Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd.

Write Grant Holt a letter of apology.

Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems.

Become taller.

Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club.

Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested.

Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it.

Save a child from a burning building.

[/quote]

Funny!

But back on topic LDC is quite right - the ''inners'' are a-wavering, and i''m one of them. I have a straightforward requirement to return to the ''in'' fold, and that is 6 points from the next two home games.

Also, i''m not just wavering because i think Hughton is suddenly the wrong man for the job necessarily. I think we''re reaching a critical stage now where if we start losing/drawing home games we should win, his position will become untenable. By that i mean we''ll be starting to get towards the Worthington situation where even if he was the right man, the majority of fans had turned against him and the players had lost faith in him and stopped playing for him. We''re not there yet, but i don''t even want to get close to there - that was a terrible time for the club and the fans - and if the sense is that''s where we are heading, we have to act. Conversely therefore, a few wins, the players regain some confidence and we''re suddenly a long way from getting to that worthy situation and a change is no longer necessary, at least not yet.

[Fat Nat 0]

Results would help but even that is not enough playing defensive and scraping by would still be frustrating. Imagine being a stoke fan under pulis watching that dross.

More points on the board and a change to the coaching staff and philosophy would get me on side. Maybe a name change to Paul Lambett wouldn''t be a bad idea either

[Waveney Canary 0]

I not sure what would restore confidence in his ability other than a complete change in results and consistently as well not just the odd good performance here and there.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,462]

The objective is to remain a premier league club for a sustained period. This requires an average of a point a game.

The difference between 17th and 9th is generally two wins.

Hughton is good at accumulating points methodically. We are hard to beat by any other than the top teams.

We are in a period where unexciting times are inevitable regardless who is the manager. Reports indicate Hughton is a club builder. This is to be respected and is necessary at this time. Manager''s planning and acting for the long term is rare. It is usual that this is a club-wide strategy and the manager is selected for this reason. Stability is a more reliable route to success than messianic personality, which is typically ephemeral.

Stability is not exciting.

Consistent long term progression is constructed from small, daily, repeated actions of improvement.

I simply do not believe in easy answers to difficult questions.

3 years ago establishing Norwich in the Premier was a very difficult question. We have done extremely well.

I see progression in our play, our squad, our club. I do not expect or need more to support the team, manager and club.

[T 191]

It would take a number of fans to develop an appreciation of basic statistics, probability and decision theory though education or commonsense and awareness so that they can appreciate the reality that we are about where our finances dictate we should be and it really does not matter who the manager is as they are not going to be able to change that reality.

It would also take fans to take some professional sports coaching courses to at least a basic  level so that they realise that this is just an internet message board so they eralise that the typical punter without professional experience, training or qualifications does not have a clue what they are talking about.

Basically greater maturity, education, commonsense and awareness otherwise any manager like the England manager is on a hiding to nothing.

[T 191]

I write that the typical punter does not have a clue what they are talking about and then comes along one who obviously does...

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]The difference between 17th and 9th is generally two wins.

Hughton is good at accumulating points methodically. [/quote]If by generally you mean once in the entire history of the Premier League.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="T"]I write that the typical punter does not have a clue what they are talking about and then comes along one who obviously does...[/quote]

 

Thank you, I knew someone would appreciate my insite.

 

 

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

[quote user="T"]

It would take a number of fans to develop an appreciation of basic statistics, probability and decision theory though education or commonsense and awareness so that they can appreciate the reality that we are about where our finances dictate we should be and it really does not matter who the manager is as they are not going to be able to change that reality.

It would also take fans to take some professional sports coaching courses to at least a basic  level so that they realise that this is just an internet message board so they eralise that the typical punter without professional experience, training or qualifications does not have a clue what they are talking about.

Basically greater maturity, education, commonsense and awareness otherwise any manager like the England manager is on a hiding to nothing.

[/quote]Oh here we go again, T''s here to insult everyone''s intelligence, because of his wooo expert perception filters.

[Matt Juler 211]

He needs a change of mindset, he needs to realise that at times you must take a gamble in an attempt to win a match of football.  One win in three is better than a couple of draws and a defeat.

[T 191]

To be clear I think a lot of people do grasp the reality but there are some that don''t. It does not require a great deal of intelligence just a bit of education or commonsense and awareness. And when I say the average punter does not have a clue about football I include myself. I have never played profesional football and have have no professional football coaching training or qualifications so believe like the average punter I know very little about football compared to someone who has played professionally and is a highly experienced professionally trained qualification and coach.

 

My views come from working professionally reviewing the acquisition of a premier league football club with someone who was an ex-professional footballer who then went on to reach the top of his profession and worked as a football administrator at the higher level who clearly did know a lot more about football than me. I also have friends who have played professionally who I fully accept know a lot more about football than me. I have also started doing some other professional sports coaching qualifications which has only confirmed to me what I previously suspected that I did not have a clue what I was doing before.  You quickly realize that 80% of the average sports punter do not have a clue what they are doing and that is fine as long as they are enjoying themselves. The remaininig 20% who do have a clue are usually humble enough to know that they have got a hell of a lot to learn.  i''m just trying to explain the basis of my views. I think this is just a forum to express opinions about football for people who actually know very little about football including myself. I think most people appreciate that but I suspect that there are some punters on here who take this message board seriously and actually  believe that they know better than a professionally trained and qualified football coach which I find bizarre given my experiences.

 

Its just a  message board for footballs fans. May be in Spain where there are 29,000 pro qualified football coaches compared to a few hundred in the UK a fans message board can be taken seriously but here please.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="T"]

To be clear I think a lot of people do grasp the reality but there are some that don''t. It does not require a great deal of intelligence just a bit of education or commonsense and awareness. And when I say the average punter does not have a clue about football I include myself. I have never played profesional football and have have no professional football coaching training or qualifications so believe like the average punter I know very little about football compared to someone who has played professionally and is a highly experienced professionally trained qualification and coach.

 

My views come from working professionally reviewing the acquisition of a premier league football club with someone who was an ex-professional footballer who then went on to reach the top of his profession and worked as a football administrator at the higher level who clearly did know a lot more about football than me. I also have friends who have played professionally who I fully accept know a lot more about football than me. I have also started doing some other professional sports coaching qualifications which has only confirmed to me what I previously suspected that I did not have a clue what I was doing before.  You quickly realize that 80% of the average sports punter do not have a clue what they are doing and that is fine as long as they are enjoying themselves. The remaininig 20% who do have a clue are usually humble enough to know that they have got a hell of a lot to learn.  i''m just trying to explain the basis of my views. I think this is just a forum to express opinions about football for people who actually know very little about football including myself. I think most people appreciate that but I suspect that there are some punters on here who take this message board seriously and actually  believe that they know better than a professionally trained and qualified football coach which I find bizarre given my experiences.

 

Its just a  message board for footballs fans. May be in Spain where there are 29,000 pro qualified football coaches compared to a few hundred in the UK a fans message board can be taken seriously but here please.

[/quote]

 

Does Tom Cavendish do work for you?

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

---T: To be clear I think a lot of people do grasp the reality but there are some that don''t.My views come from working professionally reviewing the acquisition of a premier league football club with someone who was an ex-professional footballer who then went on to reach the top of his profession and worked as a football administrator at the higher level who clearly did know a lot more about football than me.

What a wazzock this T is.

In the end other clubs have been successful in this division by taking a different approach. Southampton, Swansea, Aston Villa are all comparable clubs with similar spends over the last couple of seasons. Swansea in particular having left us well behind.

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

Once again T you are mistaking the ability to coach a football team, with the ability to critique a football team. Its perfectly possible for someone with no coaching experience to be able to spot what is going wrong with a given team, without having the ability to put it right.By your logic no-one should listen to anything [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Wilson_%28writer%29]Jonathan Wilson[/url] says because he hasn''t done his coaching badges.

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

It''s quite a bizarre juxtaposition that T has the shortest username possible, but still manages to come out with such long-winded pseudo-intellectual posts. Ha.

[Bws Cat 0]

I think it should be noted to everybody that T is also the same person who claimed that Norfolk has a poor education system and low genetic diversity.

[Bws Cat 0]

Pseudo intellectuals are some of the most insufferable and annoying people possible.

Nothing is impressive about spouting out technobabble or from plagiarising. Ironically, in most attempts to make yourself look like a bright spark you are found out by those with more than 1 brain cell and are made to look like a complete numpty.

[T 191]

Southampton and Villa have signifigantly more financial resouces than Norwich. Swansea have indeed outperformed Norwich given their financial resources but they are the one and only club who have performed better than Norwich with their available resources and this is just within the normal probabililty distribution curve.

 

The average fan can indeed say that they don''t like the style of play or appreciate that say Messi can play a bit but CH is also being criticised on tactics and player selections which I don''t believe a fan is qualified to do based on my experience. particularly given that objectively CH was the second most effective manager in the premier league last season.What is ironic is that fans who criticize CH come up with entirely different selections and tactics to criticize CH

 

It is just a biological fact that rural regions have a lower genetic diversity than urban regions and there are higher levels of sub-nornomalities. The UK''s top universities do indeed compare very favourably internationally. But the UK does not perform very well compared to other developed countries on basic education. A 90% correlation between wages and points is hardly phychbabble - its fairly basic statistics. My views just reflect those that are far better qualified than the average punte including myself.

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

[quote user="T"]The average fan can indeed say that they don''t like the style of play or

appreciate that say Messi can play a bit but CH is also being

criticised on tactics and player selections which I don''t believe a fan

is qualified to do based on my experience.[/quote]Again, this is just an appeal to authority, if we use your logic then we have to give Alan Shearer''s musing on tactics more weight than Jonathan Wilson''s.[quote user="T"]It is just a biological fact that rural regions have a lower genetic diversity than urban regions and there are higher levels of sub-nornomalities. [/quote]Evidence for this claim?[quote user="T"]A 90% correlation between wages and points is hardly phychbabble - its fairly basic statistics. My views just reflect those that are far better qualified than the average punte including myself. [/quote]Tell me exactly what method you used to work out that 90% correlation, its basic statistics so you should have no trouble taking an idiot like me through it step by step.

[Matt Juler 211]

I''d be interested in hearing Mr T''s view on something that he is an expert in, although I must admit that coming from East Anglia I''d probably not have the intellect to fully appreciate his wisdom.  Not got time now though, I''d better get back to work analysing the data from a Lung Cancer drug trial...

[T 191]

I''m saying a an experienced coach with professional qualifications knows more than an average punter based on my experience. My views are based on working through my professional sports qualifications. It is now obvious to me that as I suspected I knew nothing as a punter and still have an awful lot to learn compared to a top level qualified sports coach.

 

For instance there is a higher level of Diabetes in Norfolk than urban regions. Its just basic biological evoluation theory.

 

The correlation co-effecient is a measure of how strong the relationship is between 2 sets of numbers in this case wages and premier league points. All you have to do is copy and paste into an excel spreadsheet the premier league points at the end of the season and the wage bill for each club subsequently published in the telegraph and the guardian. Select the correlation function, highlight the points and wages column for each club and it will calculate the correlation coeffecient for you. Its really no great surprise the correlation is so high since the best players are likely to command the highest wages but I was still shocked that when you sort the premier league table in order of decending wages just how similar the table looked compared to the final premier league table each season. It takes minutes to do. Of course you get fluctatations each year eg QPR and Swansea last season but that is just normal probability distributions and clubs typically perform very close to their wage bill over time. In NCFC case, previously we had one of the lowest wages bills becasue of the debt repayments and I suspect the Boards budget of 16th place is a good indication of where we stand in the financial league table this season. The average variation is a couple of premier league places either way so on average Norwich will typically finish between 14th and 18th this season. Anything above this and they have over performed as thes did last season and below 18th we have underperformed. So we are about where I would typically expect us to be and all the figures show that changing the manager will not make a difference.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="T"]

I''m saying a an experienced coach with professional qualifications knows more than an average punter based on my experience. My views are based on working through my professional sports qualifications. It is now obvious to me that as I suspected I knew nothing as a punter and still have an awful lot to learn compared to a top level qualified sports coach.

 

For instance there is a higher level of Diabetes in Norfolk than urban regions. Its just basic biological evoluation theory.

 

The correlation co-effecient is a measure of how strong the relationship is between 2 sets of numbers in this case wages and premier league points. All you have to do is copy and paste into an excel spreadsheet the premier league points at the end of the season and the wage bill for each club subsequently published in the telegraph and the guardian. Select the correlation function, highlight the points and wages column for each club and it will calculate the correlation coeffecient for you. Its really no great surprise the correlation is so high since the best players are likely to command the highest wages but I was still shocked that when you sort the premier league table in order of decending wages just how similar the table looked compared to the final premier league table each season. It takes minutes to do. Of course you get fluctatations each year eg QPR and Swansea last season but that is just normal probability distributions and clubs typically perform very close to their wage bill over time. In NCFC case, previously we had one of the lowest wages bills becasue of the debt repayments and I suspect the Boards budget of 16th place is a good indication of where we stand in the financial league table this season. The average variation is a couple of premier league places either way so on average Norwich will typically finish between 14th and 18th this season. Anything above this and they have over performed as thes did last season and below 18th we have underperformed. So we are about where I would typically expect us to be and all the figures show that changing the manager will not make a difference.

[/quote]

 

You seem to present a very interesting case and I''d be interested on your thoughts on a few more issues;

What do you think of this season home kit?

Do you think bringing back the goal music will help?

I like to have a pie before the game but my mate insists on a suasage roll, which would you go for?