Is our squad changing too quickly?

[im spartacus canary 0]

[quote user="paul moy"]As I said on the ''end of an era'' thread, we must stick to evolution and not adopt revolution or we can fall into the QPR trap. Unfortunately, Hughton has an interest in changing the squad as much as possible because the squad failing to gel would give him a perfect excuse for another slow start to this season and no doubt there are many here that will back him if we start without a win in ten games or so.
[/quote]

 

that is the most ridiculous thing i''ve read on here and that is saying something

[Branston Pickle 3,658]

Paul Moy, that is utter garbage. Come August we will have done almost the same amount of business this season as last, the season before that and the season before that: none of which seemed to bother at the time.

[Houston Canary 0]

Maybe Hughton is making the changes cuz he wants this to be "his" team, not something built by his predecessor. It worked wonders for Glen Roeder when he tried it.

[paul moy 235]

It''s just my opinion but too much change can hit team cohesion, spirit and foment jealousy as wage differentials increase. We still have six weeks of a transfer window left so who knows what could happen in that time with regard to transfers in or out. Mark Hughes fell in love with making wholesale changes and signing players because of his sudden windfall and I hope we avoid that trap. I''m sure we will but we should be cautious.

[Crispy 4]

Considering teams sign typically between 3 - 7 players during the summer this isn''t as drastic as QPR so calm down.

QPR signed 11 ..... if we sign 9 or more then throw a tantrum.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Crispy"]Considering teams sign typically between 3 - 7 players during the summer this isn''t as drastic as QPR so calm down.

QPR signed 11 ..... if we sign 9 or more then throw a tantrum.[/quote]Who''s throwing a tantrum ?   Spartacus perhaps.... 

[Casey 0]

I think we''re doing this the right way. We''re not overpaying, we''re getting hungry players, and out of our current 5 signings, one is Garrido who has already been with us for a year, one is a 3rd choice keeper, one is a 19 year old, I don''t think Olsson isn''t going to come and categorically replace anyone - he will be a squad player, and Wolfswinkel is in as much needed fire-power.

It does make me a bit sad, however, that the team that did the hard work in getting us promoted into the premier league is dwindling away - with only Ruddy, R. Martin and Hoolahan left in the first team picture. A necessary progression, but sad nonetheless.

[im spartacus canary 0]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Crispy"]Considering teams sign typically between 3 - 7 players during the summer this isn''t as drastic as QPR so calm down. QPR signed 11 ..... if we sign 9 or more then throw a tantrum.[/quote]

Who''s throwing a tantrum ?   Spartacus perhaps.... 
[/quote]

come on paul ? you did suggest hughton was signing lots of players so that the team wouldn''t gel so that he could use it as an excuse for not winning for 10 games ? surely that  can be described as ridiculous without throwing a tantrum  cos it is a ridiculous suggestion

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="im spartacus"]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Crispy"]Considering teams sign typically between 3 - 7 players during the summer this isn''t as drastic as QPR so calm down. QPR signed 11 ..... if we sign 9 or more then throw a tantrum.[/quote]Who''s throwing a tantrum ?   Spartacus perhaps....  [/quote]

come on paul ? you did suggest hughton was signing lots of players so that the team wouldn''t gel so that he could use it as an excuse for not winning for 10 games ? surely that  can be described as ridiculous without throwing a tantrum  cos it is a ridiculous suggestion

[/quote]OK, so let''s see what happens in reality. 

[CambridgeCanary 0]

I didn''t realise you paid any attention to reality.

[chicken 0]

Our team has changed a lot over the last four seasons, it has had to.

A lot of the players we are shedding were League 1 players or players signed when we went up to the Championship with the idea that we would be consolidating our position there.

We''ve done very well with many of the players who have had to absolutely play out of their skins to get us where we are now. They have battled hard.

But now we need to get better players in to stretch that little bit further, to be a little more comfortable.

We shed a lot of players last summer, we''ll shed a couple more yet this summer.

The only players remaining at the club at the moment from our last Championship season are: Ruddy, Barnett, Martin, Fox, Surman and Hoolahan. Of those six two look to be on their way out in Barnett and Fox. A question mark remains about Surman which could prove to be six.

Which would leave only three left. It doesn''t increase much with players left from our first season in the prem either.

Pilkington, Johnson, E.Bennett and then Howson and R.Bennett and Ayala.

It''s just reality.

[Hardhouse44 261]

Good GodThe manager and club are damned if the do and damned if they don''t. The buffoon who started the thread would be the first to jump on the back of the club if we signed just a couple of players and then didn''t perform.What do you people want. We moan when we are called little old Norwich, and when we finally show some real ambition and use the money we have gain through our success to maintain the level of achievement we moan again.This is real life not Football Manager on your PC. We have good people in charge of our club and I trust in them to bring in players who will fit in with our set up. As for saying that manager is bringing lots of players to use as an excuse for failure. Well I  don''t even think I''ll bother to give a response.OTBC

[mrdi 373]

Our squad is evolving, hopefully in the right direction. (I certainly think it is). It''s easy to be sentimental towards the squad who got us here but we have to improve or we''ll sink without a trace again.

Season-on-season it''s not too dramatic a change, either. And at least now it''s happening for the right reasons. I''ve been used to NCFC selling best players to make ends meet. When the UEFA squad fell apart (Fox out, Adams in - Sutton out, Sheron in - Ekoku out, Ward in - Culverhouse out, Bradshaw in, etc...) THAT constituted far too quick a change. It ruined us. This is very different.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

[quote user="mrdi"]Our squad is evolving, hopefully in the right direction. (I certainly think it is). It''s easy to be sentimental towards the squad who got us here but we have to improve or we''ll sink without a trace again. Season-on-season it''s not too dramatic a change, either. And at least now it''s happening for the right reasons. I''ve been used to NCFC selling best players to make ends meet. When the UEFA squad fell apart (Fox out, Adams in - Sutton out, Sheron in - Ekoku out, Ward in - Culverhouse out, Bradshaw in, etc...) THAT constituted far too quick a change. It ruined us. This is very different.[/quote]

 

I agree.  Also in the early 90s the problem was that the players who left were all replaced by players who weren''t as good, individually.  So it was no surprise at the time when we did less well, although the speed of the decline wasn''t expected. 

 

Now we''re in the fortunate position of being able to let go players and bring in replacements who are better and younger.  What hasn''t happened yet it a bigger team poaching a player we want to keep - have to see about Ruddy !  But of course it is only a matter of time.

[Guest]

I understand the point made about moving too far too quickly, as well as

attracting the wrong sort of player - mercenary types, in particular.Incoming players need to have the right attributes. The right character, as well as the appropriate skill level. Overseas and inexperienced players may also need time to adjust. Though the cosmopolitan nature of the Premier League has made this less of an issue these days.The squad changes this summer have been fairly modest...so far.  Only RVW can really be considered a starter right now. Pre-season form may change that, of course.  But it''s better that we have players like Olsson and Redmond who Hughton does want to consider for first team selection, than the likes of Fox, Barnett etc who he doesn''t.

[The Masked Raccoon 0]

Wiz, not as quickly as your opinion does in your posts during the whole season. [:|]

Our changes are for the greater good, if we were slowly changing only a few bricks each transfer window, some would say it''s a slow progress and won''t get anywhere while other teams around our level are. We are getting better in and shipped a lot of players out who have struggled in the top flight. That''s how it works to keep in this league. Don''t change enough with better and you go down.

[Mister Chops 7]

It''s a hard thing to accept as a fan, but RvW, and Leroy Fer, and Gary Hooper, and whoever else we have on our books, are not realising a lifelong ambition by playing for Norwich City.  Every game is a shop window for a bigger club, and that''s going to remain the way it is for 90% of our players.The other 10% are probably "happy just to be here" because they genuinely love it here (Huckerby) or aren''t very good (Sutch).

[*** 0]

[quote user="ITK Twitterer"]

Wiz, not as quickly as your opinion does in your posts during the whole season. [:|]

Our changes are for the greater good, if we were slowly changing only a few bricks each transfer window, some would say it''s a slow progress and won''t get anywhere while other teams around our level are. We are getting better in and shipped a lot of players out who have struggled in the top flight. That''s how it works to keep in this league. Don''t change enough with better and you go down.

[/quote]

 

[IMG]http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sleepy/sleep-051.gif[/IMG]

[*** 0]

[quote user="Jan van Chopsburg"]It''s a hard thing to accept as a fan, but RvW, and Leroy Fer, and Gary Hooper, and whoever else we have on our books, are not realising a lifelong ambition by playing for Norwich City.  Every game is a shop window for a bigger club, and that''s going to remain the way it is for 90% of our players.

The other 10% are probably "happy just to be here" because they genuinely love it here (Huckerby) or aren''t very good (Sutch).

[/quote]

 

But isn''t that true for every fan Chopsburg?.................even in the top 5 clubs?

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Wiz"]

[quote user="Jan van Chopsburg"]It''s a hard thing to accept as a fan, but RvW, and Leroy Fer, and Gary Hooper, and whoever else we have on our books, are not realising a lifelong ambition by playing for Norwich City.  Every game is a shop window for a bigger club, and that''s going to remain the way it is for 90% of our players.The other 10% are probably "happy just to be here" because they genuinely love it here (Huckerby) or aren''t very good (Sutch).[/quote]

 

But isn''t that true for every fan Chopsburg?.................even in the top 5 clubs?

[/quote]Yes.  It just seems harder for our fans to accept.  "They don''t want to be here do they Naill? Me, I''d run through brick walls for the club, I''d die for the club, I''d throw myself in front of the 8:19 to Lowestoft for the club."

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Pyro Pete"]I understand the point made about moving too far too quickly, as well as

attracting the wrong sort of player - mercenary types, in particular.Incoming players need to have the right attributes. The right character, as well as the appropriate skill level. Overseas and inexperienced players may also need time to adjust. Though the cosmopolitan nature of the Premier League has made this less of an issue these days.The squad changes this summer have been fairly modest...so far.  Only RVW can really be considered a starter right now. Pre-season form may change that, of course.  But it''s better that we have players like Olsson and Redmond who Hughton does want to consider for first team selection, than the likes of Fox, Barnett etc who he doesn''t. [/quote]Ah well, at least one other on this BB understands the potential pitfalls..... 

[Mister Chops 7]

At the highest level, 95% of players are "mercenary types" - here to play for big money and to move on for bigger money.  If you can''t accept that, go and support a League Two side.

[Vazzza 62]

With our wage structure I''d be surprised if we attracted that many mercanaries. There will always be a club willing to pay more than us, even if its a QPR type club in the Champ...

I think we are more likely to attract the ambitious players that see us as a good way into the PL, and a stepping stone to the top 4. I''m hoping however, by the time the likes of RvW and potentially Fer (and other potential sigining of this calibre) have made such an impact that the bigger teams come knocking, our team will be strong enough to be challenging for European spots, and then fingers crossed, a few of these ambitious players may see Norwich as the team to stick with and progress together. However unlikely that is, it would be nice!

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Jan van Chopsburg"]At the highest level, 95% of players are "mercenary types" - here to play for big money and to move on for bigger money.  If you can''t accept that, go and support a League Two side.[/quote]All mercenary types will bring us is frustration and relegation. We must stick to the young, mean and keen, coupled with youth development strategy IMO and reject the likes of Kieron Dyer, Joey Barton, Clint Dempsey, Bobby Zamora, Andy Johnson etc etc. Spending big money does not equate to success at our level as QPR proved. There is a huge irony in letting a 100%er such as Holt go at this time.

[Herman 9,765]

Hughton isn''t buying those types of players is he?!

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="Jan van Chopsburg"]At the highest level, 95% of players are "mercenary types" - here to play for big money and to move on for bigger money.  If you can''t accept that, go and support a League Two side.[/quote]All mercenary types will bring us is frustration and relegation. We must stick to the young, mean and keen, coupled with youth development strategy IMO and reject the likes of Kieron Dyer, Joey Barton, Clint Dempsey, Bobby Zamora, Andy Johnson etc etc. Spending big money does not equate to success at our level as QPR proved. There is a huge irony in letting a 100%er such as Holt go at this time. [/quote]I think your typology of "young and hungry" versus "mercenary" is incredibly simplistic.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

Football is still a job for the players, and how many sign for a team they supported ?

 

I enjoy my job (mostly) but let''s face it, if someone offered me more money to do the same work (and equally good prospects/work setting etc) then I''d be off like a shot.

 

Also we need to remember the downside - look at all the players who don''t make it at the top level, and how brief the chances are.  OK once a player has been in the Prem for a few years, he probably doesn''t have to worry about financial security (unless he messes up).  But plenty still have those worries.