The squad so far

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Monty13"]That Mrs Miggins is exactly the starting line up I would choose with the squad we have today. I don''t think you need an enforcer when you''re playing 5 in midfield and you have a player like Fer box to boxing alongside Howson.

Maybe Olsson for Garrido, depends on how those two do on pre-season but Garrido to be shifted by Olsson imo.

Redmond adding to the options on the bench.

I''d be happy with that team starting the first game so any additions are going to be exciting![/quote]              RuddyMartin Turner Bassong Garrido          Fer HowsonLike the back seven players. But in front of that it is not much different to what we were doing last season.  The main problem was decision making and inability to cross at the right time or with quality.  Snodgrass  Hoolahan Pilkington                       RVWTo me we need to change at least one of those three behind RVW.   As a combination I just don''t think it worked often enough last season.   Look at the goals we scored in open play.   How may of these were provided  by one of these three?  I can''t think of many.   Pilks near the start of the season maybe.  Snodgrass once or twice.  But not often enough.  This was for me the main reason we didn''t score enough goals. 

If Fer lives up to his reputation and Howson continues where he left off last season, I can see us going with  442 with the options being

Snodgrass/Bennett                                            Pilkington/Redmond                       RVW                     Becchio or a.n.other

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

[quote user="Canary02 IV"]I think we need another 2 strikers and an attacking midfielder. I think we have enough wing options now and I''d be happy enough at CB with the options provided by Bassong, Turner, Bennett and Martin although it appears CH is looking to strengthen there.

Toivanon was an interesting target as a hybrid AM/S. I''ve always liked the idea of having a big man playing behind your goalscorer, winning headers for his partner to run onto. Sutton and Larsson proved how effective it can be if played correctly. Target men are rare enough these days though. Target men who can link play through the midfield as well are incredibly difficult to find.[/quote]

Wilbraham did this very well :)

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

[quote user="City1st"]lifted from Purple

GK: Ruddy, Bunn, Nash.RB: R Martin, Whittaker.LB: Garrido. Olsson.CB: Barnett, Turner, Bassong, R Bennett, Ayala.RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.CM: Fox, Butterfield, Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey, Fer.ST: Becchio, RVW.As said, we have 25 players plus Redmond who is U21 if as McNally has said there are more signings to come then players need to leave

Barnett- definite, his loan was about being in the ''shop window Ayala - doubt his loan was to develop him with a view to a longer spell at CRFox - hasn''t really featured much recently and now looks a bit ''light'' compared to what is coming inButterfield, could well go back out on loan in a make or break seasonup till now we haven''t really sold anyone, only letting players drift away so to speak - Holt was the change in that policy and I''m not too sure if anyone''s place is still absolutely certain and so it maybe that one or two favourites might follow Holt out of the doormy dark horse is Hoolahan

[/quote]

After having allowed Holt to leave I think Hughton would be a very brave man to sell Hoolahan

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I think the same three would work if supported by the attacking abilities of both Fer and Howson. Fer had a very good scoring rate at FC Twente and hopefully will carry on the same way here. Howson also showed what he can do going forward in the last two matches, so there could be a lot more goals from mid-field this year.

[Bill 1,788]

"After having allowed Holt to leave I think Hughton would be a very brave man to sell Hoolahan"it may not be entirely Hughton''s decisionthat could be seen in the arrivals of Snodgrass and Butterfield

[Joanna Grey 0]

lake district canary wrote - "To me we need to change at least one of those three behind RVW. As a combination I just don''t think it worked often enough last season. Look at the goals we scored in open play. How may of these were provided by one of these three? I can''t think of many. Pilks near the start of the season maybe. Snodgrass once or twice. But not often enough. This was for me the main reason we didn''t score enough goals. "

You have not mentioned Wes....

Goals per minutes 12/13;

Pilkington 431

Snodgrass 508

Hoolahan 805

Assists per minutes 12/13

Snodgrass 381

Hoolahan 483

Pilkington 718

Take from that what you will but if we add in the 12/13 League (Serie A and Eredivisie) stats for two of our targets (for the SS/AM role);

Goals per minutes 12/13;

Quagliarella 128

Toivonen 180

Pilkington 431

Snodgrass 508

Hoolahan 805

Assists per minutes 12/13

Quagliarella 289

Snodgrass 381

Hoolahan 483

Toivonen 633

Pilkington 718

Relating that to a points based table;

Quagliarella - 10

Snodgrass - 6

Toivonen - 6

Pilkington - 4

Hoolahan - 4

And thereby lies your solution....

[Lavanche 0]

I have really hard time to see LDC your build up, specially the 4-4-2 where Howson and Fer would be only middlefielders behind two pure strikers.

I''m quite sure if Fer and Howson are on the field at same time we have three player middlefeld either Johnson or Tettey as holding player.

Also both of our left side wingers are profilic wingers, not wide players and both full backs on same side are better going forwards than defend.

So if we dont want to be all the time open for opponents counter attacks as in Lambos era, it would mean losing lefts side wide players best attributes.

Right side would be ok as Snoddy and Martin are bit more defensive.

If we really would want to go for 4-4-2 middlefield probably should be.

Snodgrass - Fer - Johnson - Olsson

But hard to see that working playmaking wise.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

I just hope our business is nearly finished. We seem to have a very good balance now and bar another striker I don''t feel we desperately need anyone else. We must be careful not evolve too quick. Players such as Hoolahan and Surman must be kept along with Russ Martin as they really are part of the recent fabric of NCFC. Perhaps not surman so much, but he''s an asset. A player of his quality happy to play the squad rotation game is hard to find. Holt will have left a big hole an players like these three have been here a while and are city through and through. BJ is player I don''t really rate but again very important within the squad.

We also have some very good youngsters that I hope will be developed and given some first team exposure.

I guess my point is some fans are getting a little carried away. We don''t need much more now, our squad appears to have the right balance to achieve a a points haul of 50 points, which must be the next target. Evolution takes time.

[Lavanche 0]

Joanna that is like comparing Messi to Xavi. They play different roles, but both are important for the end result.

You really cant blame Hoolahan from our ineffective attack. You could see with bare eye without any stats how much better our attack looked with Hoolahan on than without him.

But as long as we dont use "regista" I agree that CAM is the role where we need to find different options as time after time Hoolahan needed to drop too deep to distribute the ball as our other middlefielders couldnt do it and that takes quite much out of his game.

[Rolf Harris 31]

Pilkington - 4

Hoolahan - 4

Pilks can play left Hoolahan can''t there lies the solution.

[Joanna Grey 0]

CRHM wrote - "Pilkington - 4

Hoolahan - 4

Pilks can play left Hoolahan can''t there lies the solution. "

Glad you picked up on this. Snoddy, Pilks and Redmond can play anywhere along the three AM/Wing positions, Hoolahan can not. Hoolahan is only effective played in the AM spot but from this he does not give enough unfortunately; either defensively, with assists or scoring. He may be good with the ball at his feet but he tends to go sideways a lot. If we need to spend big (and we know the funds are there) it is on an upgrade for the "Central Striker Support" position.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Lavanche"]I have really hard time to see LDC your build up, specially the 4-4-2 where Howson and Fer would be only middlefielders behind two pure strikers.

I''m quite sure if Fer and Howson are on the field at same time we have three player middlefeld either Johnson or Tettey as holding player.

Also both of our left side wingers are profilic wingers, not wide players and both full backs on same side are better going forwards than defend.

So if we dont want to be all the time open for opponents counter attacks as in Lambos era, it would mean losing lefts side wide players best attributes.

Right side would be ok as Snoddy and Martin are bit more defensive.

If we really would want to go for 4-4-2 middlefield probably should be.

Snodgrass - Fer - Johnson - Olsson

But hard to see that working playmaking wise.[/quote]

The only problem when playing quality opposition is the danger of being overun in midfield from time to time.  To that end you could add Tettey to the mix.                 TetteySnodgrass Fer Howson  Pilkington                 RVWI don''t see that as being too lacking in a playmaker, just lacking in the extra attacker..  Howson has proved he can be an AM.Joanna mentioned Wes.   I don''t see him as playing a big part this season but maybe more as back up.

[Rolf Harris 31]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Lavanche"]I have really hard time to see LDC your build up, specially the 4-4-2 where Howson and Fer would be only middlefielders behind two pure strikers.

I''m quite sure if Fer and Howson are on the field at same time we have three player middlefeld either Johnson or Tettey as holding player.

Also both of our left side wingers are profilic wingers, not wide players and both full backs on same side are better going forwards than defend.

So if we dont want to be all the time open for opponents counter attacks as in Lambos era, it would mean losing lefts side wide players best attributes.

Right side would be ok as Snoddy and Martin are bit more defensive.

If we really would want to go for 4-4-2 middlefield probably should be.

Snodgrass - Fer - Johnson - Olsson

But hard to see that working playmaking wise.[/quote]

The only problem when playing quality opposition is the danger of being overun in midfield from time to time.  To that end you could add Tettey to the mix.                 TetteySnodgrass Fer Howson  Pilkington                 RVWI don''t see that as being too lacking in a playmaker, just lacking in the extra attacker..  Howson has proved he can be an AM.Joanna mentioned Wes.   I don''t see him as playing a big part this season but maybe more as back up.

[/quote]Tettey and Fer are both box to box very unlikely to be playing in the same side.

[Rolf Harris 31]

It will be;               Johnson        Fer                     HowsonSnodgrass              Pilkington                RVW

[lake district canary 4,531]

Che''s right hand man: It will be;               Johnson        Fer                     HowsonSnodgrass              Pilkington                RVW

Just don''t see that Che.  Johnson in there and only one attacker is going to restrict goal chances again.    Not enough attacking quality in there.  I''d rather have Hoolahan in there that put Johnson in.   If we are strong enough with retaining the ball - ie players in there that can hold on to the ball and pass it accurately - we won''t have so much need for a Johnson type player.    

That improvement in retaining the ball is what I am hoping to see next season.  Better possession should lead on to more chances being created - or at least less chances being created by the opposition.  As much as I like Johnson,  I don''t think he has improved his passing enough yet.  

[Rolf Harris 31]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Che''s right hand man: It will be;               Johnson        Fer                     HowsonSnodgrass              Pilkington                RVW

Just don''t see that Che.  Johnson in there and only one attacker is going to restrict goal chances again.    Not enough attacking quality in there.  I''d rather have Hoolahan in there that put Johnson in.   If we are strong enough with retaining the ball - ie players in there that can hold on to the ball and pass it accurately - we won''t have so much need for a Johnson type player.    

That improvement in retaining the ball is what I am hoping to see next season.  Better possession should lead on to more chances being created - or at least less chances being created by the opposition.  As much as I like Johnson,  I don''t think he has improved his passing enough yet.  

[/quote]Johnson will be the pivot, the anchorman main objective winning the ball.Fer will be playing box to box helping out the defence as well as on the counter using his speed/pace and direct passing e.g through balls.Howson Attacking midfield supporting the midfield as well as the attackers.Snodgrass/Pilkington Supporting RVW and Howson objective to create as well as to score.RVW playing poacher  objective getting goals.This is probably an away day formation but will probably be used against Everton because I doubt Hughton would want to risk losing on the first day of the season.

[pilksfanclub 0]

Don''t think we''ll see anything too radical the same 4-4-1-1 shape. With two holders hopefully given a bit more freedom than previously

[Joanna Grey 0]

Two proper Central mid-fielders (Fer and Howson) rather than the glorified defenders-playing-further-up-the-park than we saw last season.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

With the usual caveat about the reliability of transfer fees, some interesting figures (now a few days out of date) from the Daily Mail about the (predictable) effect of the mega-TV deal. Early days still in the transfer market and some of the big clubs with money  to spend - such as Arsenal - haven''t really got started yet.But it is clear the small- to medium-sized clubs, including ourselves, are prepared to pay the already inflated prices, with several clubs having not just surpassed but obliterated their previous record fee. Possibly signficant in terms of assessing our spending, which is going to dwarf any previous season but may only be average when compared with our competitors.

 

---

Record fees:

Andy Carroll (West Ham, £15.5m)

Wilfried Bony (Swansea, £12m)

Victor Wanywama (Southampton, £12m)

Ricky van Wolfswinkel (Norwich, £8.6m)

Dwight Gayle (Crystal Palace, £8.5m)

Andreas Cornelius (Cardiff, £8.5m)

 

----

 

[chicken 0]

I think the reality is that if you are a champions league club you are probably looking at a far more limited pool of players that you are more likely to have to pay big money for.

Being mid-table means that we have a much bigger pool of players to try and recruit from to take us to the next level. Obviously sometimes teams unearth a gem that appears to have the ability to become a target for a Champions league team.

Back on topic - am I right in saying that at the moment, we have a full squad, in terms of the 25 player rule?

At the moment my tally stands at 26 in the actual squad including Redmond who doesn''t count due to age.

It''s looking like Barnett is on the way out which would free up a slot, but do we think there is only one more signing on the way? Or is there more than that to come?

I have to admit that I am surprised to see that as of yet no midfield players have moved on considering the signing of Fer. It''s looking pretty congested now in that area of the pitch.

Surman, Pilkington, Redmond, Snodgrass and E.Bennett as wide players (one too many?).

Fox, Johnson, Fer, Howson and Tettey as central midfielders.

Howson and Butterfield as attacking midfielders / in the hole types.

That''s 12 players for four or five positions in the starting line up. So for me we could lose two players in there.

[smooth 114]

There will be some departures, loan, sold orr just left out of the 25 squad. Does not bother me if there are players who are left out if they aren''t going to add anything. We can have players who can give us something in more than 2 positions.

We still require a wide player two strikers and an attacking midfielder , there may be a player who kinda fits a few if those roles but we can move on players and certainly players have to look over their shoulders.

[Bill 1,788]

So we now have -GK: Ruddy, Bunn, Nash.RB: R Martin, Whittaker.LB: Garrido. Olsson.CB: Barnett, Turner, Bassong, R Bennett, Ayala.RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.CM: Fox, Butterfield, Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey, Fer.ST: Becchio, RVW.plus  Hooper ?27 squad players26 counting as Redmond is under 2125 as both Ayala looks certain not to be included as either sold or even loaned 24 as Barnett is ''not wantedso one more space, which I would suggest would be a centre backany more incoming would need one or more of Fox, Butterfield or Surnam to be sold/loaned

[splutcho 173]

Or just not included in the 25 as some weren''t last year.

[Bill 1,788]

as they were on loan elsewherethey can''t simply be ''not include''either they are up to it, or notif the latter then apart from Butterfield they need to be sold

[splutcho 173]

Nope, pretty sure there were some that spent at least some of the season here, but not eligible. They CAN simply be not included. There is no rule against that.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,558]

[quote user="City1st"]as they were on loan elsewhere

they can''t simply be ''not include''

either they are up to it, or not

if the latter then apart from Butterfield they need to be sold


[/quote]

 

Players can be ''not included'' as long as there aren''t any spare spaces come 31st August - so if Norwich had 26 overage players on 1st September someone such as Barnett or Ayala could be left out of the 25 man squad. If Norwich had 24 overage players and wanted to leave a player out (keeping space for an additional player come January) then they could not leave the player out of the 25.

 

This never really becomes an issue as the less favourable player can be moved out of the squad to make way for any new additions - it is just a terrible waste to be paying a player who isn''t allowed to feature for the team.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I think both Barnett and Fox will move on. That makes 24 plus Redmond. The priority is then a SS/AM type player for the 25th place and if a CB is also signed, Ayala could go out on loan again. Interesting that City could put out a full contingent of internationals:

Ruddy

Whittaker

Martin

Bassong

Olsson

Fer

Tettey

Snodgrass

Pilkington

Hollahan

RvW

We seem to have moved on a way!

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

Pardon the typo, Wes!

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

Any players we have still on our books who don''t make the 25 are likely to be at best Championship standard, and so can be loaned out once that window opens. Normally, I think, a week after the transfer window has shut.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

Elliot Ward wasnt included in the 25 at the start of last season and didnt go on loan til October/November time IIRC.