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PurpleCanary

The squad so far

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On the assumption we get a third keeper, and that he is over 21, and assuming none of the younger players are yet ready to step up, and counting Surman as a left-winger (I know, but central midfield is crowded) and counting Redmond as a left winger and assuming we want cover/two of each in all positions, and bearing in mind that if, for example, we think we can get rid of Barnett and have R Martin play CB then we are short at RB, this (I think) is where we stand:GK: Ruddy, Bunn, AN Other.RB: R Martin, Whittaker.LB: Garrido.CB: Barnett, Turner, Bassong, R Bennett.RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.CM: Fox, Butterfield, Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey.ST: Holt, Becchio, RVW.

 

That makes 24, but Redmond is under-21, so we have two spaces, and only two obvious gaps - at LB and up front. But it does mean that if we are are still looking to upgrade in various positions someone will have to go to make room. 

 

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I think we might see either a couple out the door (Fox & Barnett) or on loan. I think we will see at least another 4 players in the squad.

 

But it looks rather good and most of them now have 2 years premiership experiance now too, so can be classed as premeirship quality. Great time to be a city fan and just look at the Ippo signings this year to see just how far we have come in 5 seasons.

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In whatever way it happens I dont think Fox or Barnett will be in that 25 by the end if the summer. CH clearly didn''t rate either and would be surprised if they don''t move on for the sake of their own careers.

That''s 4 more players required plus your 3rd GK, so 5 more signings, maybe another u21 to make it 6. Sounds about right to me. This is an exciting window as it''s all about quality not quantity.

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Fox, Butterfield and Barnett wont be in the squad next season. And maybe Surman wont be.

I think we''ll bring in another LB (Olsson) maybe another RB if Martin is being used as one of 4 CBs.

Then another midfielder (Hopefully Fer) and another striker and AM.

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I think butterfield might start the season on loan if we get in some quality, but I can''t see why we would sell, he''s a good prospect and young. He is also on a long contract from signing last year.

Surman seems to be written off by many on here, I still think he has a lot to offer as a squad player, could have really done with him last year to offer something different to a touchline hugging winger. If a lot of new faces arrive maybe he will move on but unless we have an upgrade in mind I can see his purpose in the 25.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

GK: Ruddy, Bunn, AN Other.

RB: R Martin, Whittaker.

LB: Garrido, AN Other

CB: Barnett, Turner, Bassong, R Bennett.

RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.

LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.

CM: Fox, Butterfield, Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey.

ST: Holt, Becchio, RVW, AN Other

[/quote]

 

This is how I see it PC. Red highlighted are the strongest first 11, with the green highlighted the most likely subs. Of course it depends who else comes in. I can see a decent left back coming in to push Garrido and two big signings, one attacking midfield to usurp Hoolahan or Howson, and another decent striker to mix things up.

For me, this is the best squad we have ever had. And it''s going to improve over the next month.

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[quote user="Jonzey"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

GK: Ruddy, Bunn, AN Other.

RB: R Martin, Whittaker.

LB: Garrido, AN Other

CB: Barnett, Turner, Bassong, R Bennett.

RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.

LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.

CM: Fox, Butterfield, Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey.

ST: Holt, Becchio, RVW, AN Other

[/quote]

 

This is how I see it PC. Red highlighted are the strongest first 11, with the green highlighted the most likely subs. Of course it depends who else comes in. I can see a decent left back coming in to push Garrido and two big signings, one attacking midfield to usurp Hoolahan or Howson, and another decent striker to mix things up.

For me, this is the best squad we have ever had. And it''s going to improve over the next month.

[/quote]

There are only 2 of your players that I disagree PC - I would rate Martin above Whittaker simply because Whittaker played hardly any games last season due injury and so has less experience. Martin also scored a some goals. At the start of last season I did rate Tettey above Howson. Tettey got injured and Howson was put in to replace him. I thought Howson was rubbish at first but he''s been very impressive and I can''trate Tettey above Howson now

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[quote user="Monty13"]I think butterfield might start the season on loan if we get in some quality, but I can''t see why we would sell, he''s a good prospect and young.  [/quote]

We''d sell if someone offered us a nice chunk of change for him.

 

I''m not sure what the future holds for Butterfield but I don''t think he''s going to play much football for Norwich City.

 

He''s already 23, how much longer can he be seen as "young" or a "prospect"?

 

I remember someone on here a few weeks back insisting he''s already better than Jonny Howson and I think that, generally, Butterfield seems to have built up quite a bit of hype and reputation without having done all that much to support it.

 

He''s really got to start showing something pretty soon, I think.

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[quote user="HazzaJet"]

There are only 2 of your players that I disagree PC - I would rate Martin above Whittaker simply because Whittaker played hardly any games last season due injury and so has less experience. Martin also scored a some goals. At the start of last season I did rate Tettey above Howson. Tettey got injured and Howson was put in to replace him. I thought Howson was rubbish at first but he''s been very impressive and I can''trate Tettey above Howson now[/quote]

 

 

I didn''t make any value judgments. That was someone else!

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I think that regretfully Barnett and Fox will have to go.

Butterfield I am not sure about - he didn''t set the Championship world alight in his loan period, and didn''t play all the games he could. He does, however, seem to be over his injury, and with the post-season break may feel ready for the fray.

I think that Surman should be kept. He didn''t have many games last season because of the dreadful injury and recovery time, but we know what he is capable of - vision and creativity similar to Wes, but often so very quick in thought and touch that opponents are caught out. If we sign Toivonen, - looking perhaps likely now, and Fer,  and with Howson in his correct position, Surman would play only for rotation or replacing injured players. In my opinion with his energy and defensive ability even on our own goal-line, I think that he should be kept.

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Barnett, Fox, Surman to go, Butterfield to get some pre-season time to see how hit fits in and if not I expect to see him packed off somewhere on loan.

My view is that we definitely need another LB, definitely need another Centre Forward and any other midfield player that adds better quality.

Don''t forget Ayala is still with us so he will likely go too, unless he is comfy with Whittaker covering LB and RB so Ayala stays as centre half cover if Barnett goes, so many options....

Exciting waiting to find out or is it blooming annoying?!?

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[quote user="HazzaJet"][quote user="Jonzey"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

GK: Ruddy, Bunn, AN Other.RB: R Martin, Whittaker.LB: Garrido, AN OtherCB: Barnett, Turner, Bassong, R Bennett.RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.CM: Fox, Butterfield, Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey.ST: Holt, Becchio, RVW, AN Other

[/quote]

 

This is how I see it PC. Red highlighted are the strongest first 11, with the green highlighted the most likely subs. Of course it depends who else comes in. I can see a decent left back coming in to push Garrido and two big signings, one attacking midfield to usurp Hoolahan or Howson, and another decent striker to mix things up.

For me, this is the best squad we have ever had. And it''s going to improve over the next month.

[/quote]

There are only 2 of your players that I disagree PC - I would rate Martin above Whittaker simply because Whittaker played hardly any games last season due injury and so has less experience. Martin also scored a some goals. At the start of last season I did rate Tettey above Howson. Tettey got injured and Howson was put in to replace him. I thought Howson was rubbish at first but he''s been very impressive and I can''trate Tettey above Howson now[/quote]
I agree Hazza re Howson. We need to judge him on how he finished the season not how he started it. I think he has the potential to become one of our most influential players this season.

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With Redmond coming in (granted he''s likely to be a limited game impact sub), and that Surman really only functions on the left tip of the diamond (which Hughton doesn''t play) I find it difficult to see Surman staying.At least Butterfield fits into Hughton''s formations.Aside from that I see Barnett & Fox being moved on.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

On the assumption we get a third keeper, and that he is over 21, and assuming none of the younger players are yet ready to step up, and counting Surman as a left-winger (I know, but central midfield is crowded) and counting Redmond as a left winger and assuming we want cover/two of each in all positions, and bearing in mind that if, for example, we think we can get rid of Barnett and have R Martin play CB then we are short at RB, this (I think) is where we stand:GK: Ruddy, Bunn, AN Other.RB: R Martin, Whittaker.LB: Garrido.CB: Barnett, Turner, Bassong, R Bennett.RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.CM: Fox, Butterfield, Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey.ST: Holt, Becchio, RVW.

 

That makes 24, but Redmond is under-21, so we have two spaces, and only two obvious gaps - at LB and up front. But it does mean that if we are are still looking to upgrade in various positions someone will have to go to make room. 

 

[/quote]

 

Apologies. Forgot Ayala, but he may well be gone soon, so I won''t put him back for now. Holt has departed, which leaves two striker places to fill. But that was probably always the case. Providing we had the money we really were not likely to go into next season with Holt AND Becchio. One to stay, as the fourth striker, and the other to go.at.A more general point is that, entirely predictably, with the advent of the new TV deal there has been transfer fee inflation. The Mail has done a useful piece, showing how some clubs (based on reported fees) have already smashed their record. Us, Palace and Cardiff, for example, at £8.5m. West Ham at £15m. If Swansea pay £12m for Bony that will be another case. Arsenal and Hull seem certain to break their records, of £16.5m and £5m respectively.What is unknown, but which matters a great deal to us and probably more than price inflation, is whether the other predicted eventuality - of wage inflation - is also happening.A couple of - I hope - helpful points, to try to reduce the stress levels her. Firstly, there are more than seven weeks to the end of the transfer window, and we are not at the top of the football food chain. We are dependent on the whims of other, bigger clubs. Last season, for example, Bassong didn''t arrive until late on.Secondly, there is a knack to understanding transfer speculation stories and the remarks of people in football. You need to know how to "read" them. With deep respect, some posters don''t have that knack (no reason why they should but...) and it leads to all sorts of unnecessary angst and antagonism. Sometimes a careful reread of the story in question before posting might...

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PurpleCanary wrote - "Secondly, there is a knack to understanding transfer speculation stories and the remarks of people in football. You need to know how to "read" them. With deep respect, some posters don''t have that knack (no reason why they should but...) and it leads to all sorts of unnecessary angst and antagonism. Sometimes a careful reread of the story in question before posting might..."

FFS, pompous or what? You should be embarrassed to write such pretentious twaddle.

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GK: Ruddy, Bunn, (Nash)?RB: R Martin, Whittaker.LB: Garrido. (Olssen)CB: Barnett (going), Turner, Bassong, R Bennett. (Toby Alderweireld)?RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.(going)CM: Fox(going), Butterfield (loan), Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey. (Leroy fer)?ST: Holt (gone), Becchio, RVW. (Hooper/Dame N''doye)?(Ola Toivonen)?

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]PurpleCanary wrote - "Secondly, there is a knack to understanding transfer speculation stories and the remarks of people in football. You need to know how to "read" them. With deep respect, some posters don''t have that knack (no reason why they should but...) and it leads to all sorts of unnecessary angst and antagonism. Sometimes a careful reread of the story in question before posting might..."

FFS, pompous or what? You should be embarrassed to write such pretentious twaddle.[/quote]

 

Dear me, and I just thought I was being helpful. Trying to save you in particular, as an admirable stickler for accuracy, from the tedium of having to post this kind of correction, taken from today''s Edu Alarte thread, where someone has apparently misread a story:

He is on trial and has not signed yet. :

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And put myself out of a job?

Seriously though, we all make mistakes, you and me included, that''s human nature. But there is no secret code that Football folk use regarding transfers and the fact that most are translated from the original language does not help either.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]And put myself out of a job?

Seriously though, we all make mistakes, you and me included, that''s human nature. But there is no secret code that Football folk use regarding transfers and the fact that most are translated from the original language does not help either.[/quote]

 

I take the point about foreign languages. But just to give one example of the kind of thing I am talking about in terms of being able to "read" stories. There are sometimes posts on these lines:"I think this Bloggs story has legs because we are now seeing it from several sources."When we are not seeing it from several sources. We are seeing it from one source - which may rank anywhere from zero to ten on a credibility scale - and then seeing it repeated, totally unverified, on twitter, blogs, sites such as Vital Football etc etc etc.In contrast take the Ruddy/Chelsea story, which I think even the most virulent anti-Skyist would now accept was in essence, if not in every detail, true (rather like the Sky story about Holt going to Wigan). The Ruddy story later appeared in, amongst other places, the Metro, The Sun, the Express and the Guardian. But not as unverified repeats of the Sky story. As bylined stories by reporters who had obviously checked it out independently by getting in touch with their Chelsea contacts.

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Sorry Purple, small point, but the Express story that I read was an unverified piece of rehashed bilge. Can''t say much for the others.

(The express didn''t mention Diana for once so I let them off).

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

On the assumption we get a third keeper, and that he is over 21, and assuming none of the younger players are yet ready to step up, and counting Surman as a left-winger (I know, but central midfield is crowded) and counting Redmond as a left winger and assuming we want cover/two of each in all positions, and bearing in mind that if, for example, we think we can get rid of Barnett and have R Martin play CB then we are short at RB, this (I think) is where we stand:GK: Ruddy, Bunn, Nash.RB: R Martin, Whittaker.LB: Garrido. Olsson.CB: Barnett, Turner, Bassong, R Bennett, Ayala.RW: Snodgrass, E Bennett.LW: Pilkington, Redmond, Surman.CM: Fox, Butterfield, Howson, Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey.ST: Becchio, RVW.

 

That makes 24, but Redmond is under-21, so we have two spaces, and only two obvious gaps - at LB and up front. But it does mean that if we are are still looking to upgrade in various positions someone will have to go to make room. 

 

[/quote]

 

Updated with the two signings today. Of the 25 I have listed Redmond still doesn''t count towards the 25, still being annoyingly young. And Ayala may well be on the way out, as may Barnett, and some from central midfield. But there are now obviously two gaps up front. Arguably there always were, it being either Holt or Becchio but not both.

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Still 4-5 signings to come me thinks. Fer, a central defender is obviously wanted as interested in one now, definitely another striker. If we get toivonen I am convinced 4 will be it as he can play attacking mid and upfront, if we miss out of toivonen am thinking a new attacking mid and a 4th strikin option.

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Signing a central defender will almost certainly be confirmation that both Ayala and Barnett are deemed surplus to requirements. One would hope that both will command a fee.

I suppose it also depends on how Hughton sees Hoolahan being used. If he continues as he has in the past then you may as well call Hoolahan a striker as well, as he''d play that role in behind the main striker.

I believe Redmond can play there as well.

However, it wouldn''t surprise me to see us sign two more strikers.

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[quote user="Mervmeister"]Still 4-5 signings to come me thinks. Fer, a central defender is obviously wanted as interested in one now, definitely another striker. If we get toivonen I am convinced 4 will be it as he can play attacking mid and upfront, if we miss out of toivonen am thinking a new attacking mid and a 4th strikin option.[/quote]Not far off what I think [Y]If I were to guess I''d say:Fer, Toby Aldewereld, X 2 strikers.

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