Hughton the Accidental Hero

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]I certainly celebrated the goals and the win and I do believe we have crossed the Rubicon to playing in the EPL next year.

Essentially, I put the win down to the players and the supporters and praised the former.

Hughton is a developing manager, I like his fortitude and he will achieve his brief. But okay he made two obvious tactical changes and got some of the luck recently lacking.

That''s why he is an accidental hero IMO.[/quote]

The people that sit near you at CR must love it, particularly when you celebrate the goals, very generous![:)]

[Roodge 0]

Arr Bor, A top post, thank you.CH has recruited exceptionally well (Bassong, Snodgrass, Turner, Garrido, Tettey, etc + now Becchio/Kamara). He was far sighted enough to realise that we required cover for Ruddy and bought in the excellent Bunn. He has farmed out dead wood to prove themselves or go. He has given our young players the opportunity to develop their skills and gain experience. He has ''engineered'' wins over Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton and the excellent Swansea. We now sit at a key stage of the season in mid table with our premiership future pretty much assured. In achieving this he has worked within budgets and (unlike QPR) has not risked the financial future of our Club.Not sure how much of that lot happens ''by accident''.He goes about his business with dignity and is highly respected by his piers who with respect are far more knowledgeable than you (or I) about this game.I suspect it was the likes of you that got him removed from Newcastle and spent the next few years wondering why!Mr Hughton - please continue with the excellent work you are doing for our Club.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Once again I refer you to yesterday''s match thread so judgements are not blurred by a late smash and grab.

Late turn a rounds like this are fantastic for supporters though and the wave of emotion is understandable.

I hope this turns out to be a springboard.

Hughton needs to learn to trust is players, he non-stop coaches during games. He needs to give players their heads. He is a good coach, albeit a defensive minded one who has only late managerial experience. But he is learning and through his players in his words wanting to go for the win and with the home crowd driving them on he should have had an epiphany yesterday.

[Crispy 4]

Prior to this transfer window I think Houghton would have been nervous bringing on the likes of Jackon et al for prolonged periods of time. It''s hard to make early subs if you have doubts whether it would improve the performance.

Obviously now with Kei & Becchio Houghton is more confident changing up a game plan.

I think the term ''accidental'' hero is appropriate. If he had done the same tactics earlier in the season with the previous bench warmers we may have seen some of our draws turn into losses.

[Crispy 4]

**I mean Hughton obviously .... sorry spelling police.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Crispy"]Prior to this transfer window I think Houghton would have been nervous bringing on the likes of Jackon et al for prolonged periods of time. It''s hard to make early subs if you have doubts whether it would improve the performance.

Obviously now with Kei & Becchio Houghton is more confident changing up a game plan.

I think the term ''accidental'' hero is appropriate. If he had done the same tactics earlier in the season with the previous bench warmers we may have seen some of our draws turn into losses.[/quote]So really there is nothing "accidental" about it, is there?It has been about playing the best team he can put out, and as he has signed better quality, putting out a better team still, and also having a bit of depth on the bench that can actually improve a game.Theres no luck or accident about any of it.

[Crispy 4]

Sorry I did mean that Morty ... need to stop using the forum on my phone !

''accidental'' hero ISN''T appropriate

[morty 0]

[quote user="Crispy"]Sorry I did mean that Morty ... need to stop using the forum on my phone !

''accidental'' hero ISN''T appropriate[/quote]Ahhhh[Y]

[Yellow Wal 314]

The biggest ''accidental hero'' that Norwich City has seen for decades is Simeon Jackson who hit an amazing purple patch and scored for fun in the Championship.

Unfortunately that made so many supporters think he is a good player, far better than he actually is, and subsequently those same supporters could not understand why we were not starting with two up front when we had such a good player on our books.

I think it has now been proved that given the right personnel the manager is quite happy to revert to his ''preferred'' formation of 442.

As nice a chap as Simeon may be I''m afraid he will never be a Premiership player.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

After 5 pages, this thread now seems to be getting to the point. There is nothing ''accidental'' about CH. His is a considered approach, using the resources available to him at the time. Holt and Pilks weren''t available against Fulham and he had to go with what he had. Kamara isn''t match fit, and therefore can''t start games yet, but that will come. Finally, I''m not convinced that 4-4-2 is the best answer, especially against Man Utd away. The Everton goal exploited the single DMF situation as Johnson went for the cross and missed, allowing the unmarked Osman to score. There''s a balance to be achieved, and that''s CH''s responsibility, not ours, fortunately. I think he will go on doing that very well.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Roodge"]Arr Bor, A top post, thank you.CH has recruited exceptionally well (Bassong, Snodgrass, Turner, Garrido, Tettey, etc + now Becchio/Kamara). He was far sighted enough to realise that we required cover for Ruddy and bought in the excellent Bunn. He has farmed out dead wood to prove themselves or go. He has given our young players the opportunity to develop their skills and gain experience. He has ''engineered'' wins over Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton and the excellent Swansea. We now sit at a key stage of the season in mid table with our premiership future pretty much assured. In achieving this he has worked within budgets and (unlike QPR) has not risked the financial future of our Club.Not sure how much of that lot happens ''by accident''.He goes about his business with dignity and is highly respected by his piers who with respect are far more knowledgeable than you (or I) about this game.I suspect it was the likes of you that got him removed from Newcastle and spent the next few years wondering why!Mr Hughton - please continue with the excellent work you are doing for our Club.[/quote]Now that''s a post to be pinned to the top of the board.

[nutty nigel 7,566]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Hughton changed the system yesterday; he was more aggressive in his use of substitutes. The outcome we won the game. As has been discussed previously such a strategy may both increase the liklihood of winning and losing, but reduce the liklihood of drawing. At home - with three points available for a win - this is the route we must go. So congratulations to Hughton for having the foresight and courage to change. Makes the Southampton match a much more attractive proposition.[/quote]

 

But isn''t that more about having new options on the bench than a change in philosophy. Are you honestly going to tell me the same will have happened before these new players arrived. The earliest tactical substitution I remember Hughton making was at half-time in the Liverpool game when he brought on Holt for Jackson. That day he had a realistic option on thne bench and used it very early. Strangely he was roundly booed for it.

 

Kingsway - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some fans like direct football and other like the more patient approach. I keep mentioning it but how many times did the crowd be come restless and shout for the ball to go forwards "get it in the box" during the patient build up to the wonderful team goal in the Sunderland game. There''s nothing wrong with enjoying direct football. It can be more exciting.

 

Rudolph - Did you ever refer to Lambert as an accidental hero after all those last minute goals which won games for us in previous seasons?

 

 

[star_manic 0]

so using the logic spouted on this thread, Winston Churchill only had Spitfires to attack the Luftwaffe, so when we won the Battle of Britain he became an accidental hero? what utter rubbish. go and support the binners.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

The RAF relied mainly on the Hurricane. It was an unintended piece of providence for the RAF when Churchill authorised a bombing raid on Berlin which changed the Luftwaffe campaign from airfields to London, so there''s good fortune for you.  The balance in the Battle of Britain was tipped in our favour by the Poles who made better use of our under-armed fighters by disobeying firing distance regulations.

 

Go read your history, it is full of accidents, the crucial thing is learning from them and exploiting them.

[nutty nigel 7,566]

Blimey Rudolph. What''s your view about Isaac Newton and his bang on the bonce?

 

 

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I think a large nmber of posters on here would have given too much credit to the apple, Nutty.

[nutty nigel 7,566]

Perhaps not enough credit to the lad Isaac and his positional sense. But he''s still a hero even after all this time.

 

 

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]

The RAF relied mainly on the Hurricane. It was an unintended piece of providence for the RAF when Churchill authorised a bombing raid on Berlin which changed the Luftwaffe campaign from airfields to London, so there''s good fortune for you.  The balance in the Battle of Britain was tipped in our favour by the Poles who made better use of our under-armed fighters by disobeying firing distance regulations.

 

Go read your history, it is full of accidents, the crucial thing is learning from them and exploiting them.

[/quote]

 

Which history do you read?

 

OTBC

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Past history.

[Shankslad 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]

The RAF relied mainly on the Hurricane. It was an unintended piece of providence for the RAF when Churchill authorised a bombing raid on Berlin which changed the Luftwaffe campaign from airfields to London, so there''s good fortune for you.  The balance in the Battle of Britain was tipped in our favour by the Poles who made better use of our under-armed fighters by disobeying firing distance regulations.

 

Go read your history, it is full of accidents, the crucial thing is learning from them and exploiting them.

[/quote]

 

Nothing to do with football but that is a complete and utter distortion and factually inaccurate.   The luftwaffe switch from airfields to towns was a strategic decision made before the jettisoning of bombs over london by a single german bomber triggered a retaliatory strike on Berlin.   The RAF included pilots from all corners of the commonwealth and our allies and no squadren played a bigger or smaller part than any other.   There was controversy over fighter strategy particularly regards the Duxford Big Wing approach.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]Past history.[/quote]

 

Would that be Polish ''past'' history or British ''past'' history or perhaps even anecdotal ''past'' history or ...............?

 

OTBC

 

 

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

Rude Old I normally agree with your posts but I just cannot agree with this.Our strikers from last year (i.e Holty, Morison, Vaughan, Jackson and Chris Martin) as strikers to pick from just havent been good enough this year. The lack of goals suggests this. I''m not sure about Becchio yet- but the poor lad hasnt played 5 games for us yet so it would be a bit harsh to judge him either way.I think though that our strikers now: Holt, Kamara, Jackson and Becchio are an improvement on the strikers we had last year.To accuse Hughton of being defensive because he (like the majority of the fan base!) clearly didnt rate the strikers we HAD is rubbish. CH rates Holty, Becchio and Kamara hence why they are now getting regular game time when fit. It''ll be interesting to see whether Kamara stays full time and what happens with JV- but that will be seen in time.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Yes, the Nazi''s bombed London first and the retaliatory strike on Berlin was ineffectual other than it severely embarassed Goring who, against advice changed a winning strategy against South of England airfields to bombing London for his own ego.

 

As a result the southern airfields got breathing space to recover, Leigh Mallory''s Big Wing north of London came into play and surprised the Luftwaffe with numbers and Luftwaffe fighters only had fuel for 10 minutes over the capital.

 

The biggest problem facing the RAF was a lack of pilots and especially experienced pilots (rookies had a very limited survival rate). Aircraft production in the UK was around double that of Germany (so much for German industry) but pilots were in short supply. However, along with other nations the Polish Government in exile authorised the formation of Polish squadrons. The most effective fighter squadron: 303 moved to our RAF Coltishall in 1944 (as a local interest).

 

The Poles were the most represented foreign pilots in the RAF followed by the Czechs. Essentially they were highly experienced pilots.

Hurricanes and Spitfires had 8 .303 guns whereas the Messersmitt had 20mm canon. But the Poles would fire from 100 yards as opposed to 200 and were so effective, despite joining the Battle of Britain a little late that they accounted for 12% of downed aircraft despite comprising only 5% of RAF strength.

Poland suffered terribly before during and after WWII from the Russians, then the Nazis and the Russians again who, in a shameful episode put pressure on the British Government to exclude the Poles from the eventual victory parade in London. Poles who returned home were interned by the Soviets who didn''t want any figures to stir up Polish nationalism. This is the same reason they held back from Warsaw in 1944 while the Nazi''s carried out a slaughter of the resistance.

 

I have no links to the Polish but it does get my goat when people slag off Polish immigrants because this is a friendly nation who we have both mutually helped and left to suffer. Did anyone notice the crowd applaud the British National Anthem when England played in Poland recently. That''s the only football link, but it''s good to have a discussion.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

There are any number of reference books but for lighter reference, for anyone interested in the subject may I recommend a film entitled ''Dark Blue Sky'' or ''Dark Blue World'' about Czech WWII RAF Pilots or Andrew Greig''s ''That Summer.''

[Mr.Carrow 378]

If we were lucky yesterday, then we were unlucky plenty of times in our dodgy run when we generally lost by the odd goal but had chances/good penalty shouts near the end of games. It just wasn`t going for us during that run and yesterday we got the rub for a change. We actually had more shots and corners than Everton so any claim we didn`t deserve to win is just crap.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Good points Mr. Carrow. And good points from others too. I''ll always argue against personal abuse but based upon general good argument and consensus I am prepared to change my mind.

[Norwich or die tryin! 0]

You''ve really got to question what the hell Hughton was doing starting Wes on the left in a 4-4-2. I thought is was only Bryan Gunn who was stupid enough to think Wes can play that position. You could see from the first minute to the time he was taken of that he was totally lost and ineffective in that position. He is not a winger!. Why he took so long to put Pilkington on aswell is staggering, it was obvious to everyone in the ground at Half time that he needed to make a straight change, Pilks for Wes. If Hughton has learnt one thing from yesterdays game then i hope its never to play Wes wide left again.

[Ha ya got a loight boy? 0]

quote user="Norwich or die tryin!"    You''ve really got to question what the hell Hughton was doing starting Wes on the left in a 4-4-2. I thought is was only Bryan Gunn who was stupid enough to think Wes can play that position. You could see from the first minute to the time he was taken of that he was totally lost and ineffective in that position. He is not a winger!. Why he took so long to put Pilkington on aswell is staggering, it was obvious to everyone in the ground at Half time that he needed to make a straight change, Pilks for Wes. If Hughton has learnt one thing from yesterdays game then i hope its never to play Wes wide left again./quote

In that case, he may not get another game.   The team has to move on, after all.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

Rudolph, I''m afraid you are so very wrong.

NCFC doesn''t get to 12th in the league after 29 games by ''accident''.

Judge Hughton over the course of the season and not just a cherry-picked sixteen minutes from a single game.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

[quote user="Rock The Boat"]Rudolph, I''m afraid you are so very wrong.

NCFC doesn''t get to 12th in the league after 29 games by ''accident''.

Judge Hughton over the course of the season and not just a cherry-picked sixteen minutes from a single game.[/quote]

[:)]