Negative Negative Negative

[Norfolkn Good 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

I''m not having a dig buddy. I honestly have totally lost whatever point you''re making. Probably because it''s two threads. Simply, why do you want to bench players who have taken us on this unbeaten run up the table?

 

[/quote]

Fair enough.

You are making it sound much harsher than I am thinking it. I don''t want to bench anyone because they aren''t good enough. Only because there are a few things, based on what i''ve seen us do, that we could be doing a bit better. Not a lot better, just a bit. I think if a player or two drops to the bench for even half a game, it could spur him, his replacement and the others on just to be that LITTLE bit better. I''m not asking for huge improvements, i''m not saying we are rubbish. We are fantastic, we can just be more fantastic.[/quote]

Be careful what you wish for - changing the team may work but probably won''t.

Suggesting changing a side that''s on an amazingly great run is a bit bonkers really

[zemas tendon 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]You don''t think they can play better in the system? So what about all the poor set pieces? Whenever we put a good one in, we always look like scoring. But we are putting in far too many poor to average FKs and corners. Hoolahan''s shooting and final ball, we know that can be better. He''s been very good, but sometimes he''s just not providing that final ball/shot in areas of the pitch where he has the ball that we know he can. Pilks, has been extremely inconsistent, even more so than last season. He''s quality when on form, but his general crossing and set pieces have not been to the same standard. But he''s won us 6 points. Holt, he''s been playing well yet not scored since Arsenal? Well we know he can do better than that, Holt playing well, and playing nearly every minute of every game normally equals goals. We can improve with the players we have without changing the system. We are wasting chances and chances to create chances. We are getting the ball into the right areas of the pitch plenty of times. Obviously no one expects us to score loads and never concede, but over the past 8 games we''ve certainly created enough and had more than enough of the ball in dangerous areas to score more goals. We should have scored at least one more against Villa, should have scored against Reading, Howson against Man.U, Southampton and Everton we had long spells when we could have scored at any time. And today, we had chances to score more goals. People aren''t imagining this, and dreaming of some perfect football team. This is whats happening on the pitch.[/quote]

 

Well said Sir Alex Ferguson

[lake district canary 0]

The point is - from my point of view anyway - is that the same players that are on the pitch could be doing better.    The potential is frightening because if we do improve that final ball in then we are going to score more goals - and not concede many.      I thought it was going to happen on Sunday when we were doing so well in the first half.  

I''ll say it again.  The team that are on the pitch are not yet reaching their full potential.     They can improve.      We do not have to make changes - although I wouldn''t complain if we did - after all Bennett and Bunn have come in and done well.    Its simple.   At the attacking end of the field we are getting good positions but not capitalising on them enough.   That first half was better against Sunderland - it had glimpses of what I mean - but there is room for improvement.   The second half showed how we can still learn.   Hughton''s team is still a work in progress - they''re doing great - but personally I''m looking forward to seeing our forward play improving during the rest of the season.  It will happen because we have the players out there that can do it.    Its very exciting because the potential to do what WBA are doing now is here at Norwich.  

Its a case of, yes, we''re doing great - but the possibilities for doing even better are there - and without necessarily changing the team that much. 

[Waveney Canary 0]

Only thing I have to moan about are the plastics are out in force for the Villa game. They couldn''t afford the previous rounds nor get time off work but miraculously these are no longer constraints as we progress!!!!

[Herman 9,823]

If only all our fans could be as perfect and pure hearted as you and Mongy.

[Hairy Canary 707]

Two things. Risk and moral.

If we change things we are taking a risk. There is absolutely no way any manager would change what we are doing and risk it going wrong. Can you imagine the flack. Its all very easy on some forum but in real life? I don''t think so.

 

More importantly is moral. The guys in the team are on a high. They are confident, sticking to the game plan and fighting for everything. That''s every single one of them. Can you imagine what would happen to moral if one or two were dropped after another top result. Confidence is fragile in football as we all know and Hughton is far to good a manager to mess with that. Its only a guess Ginger but I doubt you''ve managed anyone.  

[Gingerpele 0]

Have Man.C not made a change to their team in the league?

They are unbeaten all season....

Top sides always change their team about, the odd change here and there pretty much every game. Doesn''t do them much harm. But then again we are little old Norwich, just happy to have the chance to play in this league and celebrate a victory over Man.U like a non-league side beating them in the FA Cup 3rd round. We dare not dream we might actually be good enough to finish top half of the table, we are well and truly in a relegation battle until we get bought by a billionaire who can pay the wages of a load of talentless has beens and a few bright sparks who don''t like each other so can''t play as a team.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

I am delighted after the poor start. A tremendous run in the league, best cup run for years and 2 top club scalps. We need to get used to the fact that we play a different game to past seasons, not so pleasing onthe eye but effective. The run will come to an end and we will have poor results but overall i am very confident at better than survival. Hughton by nature is not a negative player and given time and cash will bring in better quality to improve the goal scoring issue.

[zemas tendon 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Have Man.C not made a change to their team in the league? They are unbeaten all season.... Top sides always change their team about, the odd change here and there pretty much every game. Doesn''t do them much harm. But then again we are little old Norwich, just happy to have the chance to play in this league and celebrate a victory over Man.U like a non-league side beating them in the FA Cup 3rd round. We dare not dream we might actually be good enough to finish top half of the table, we are well and truly in a relegation battle until we get bought by a billionaire who can pay the wages of a load of talentless has beens and a few bright sparks who don''t like each other so can''t play as a team.[/quote]

 

Well said Sir Alex Ferguson!!

[Gingerpele 0]

You do know i''m not Sir Alex Ferguson?

He probably doesn''t know how to use the internet, he''s quite happy with his chewing gum...

And you''re a prat.

[crabbycanary 2]

GP - I think it is more a case of ''walk before we can run'' than anything else.

That isn''t a ''little old Norwich'' mentality, that is realism. I do reflect on where we would be right now , if we were still under Lambert, and I much prefer where we are now with Hughton. Speculation I know, but looking at what Lambert is doing at Villa, and I would be a lot more worried if he were still here.

There is a plan for this season, and there will be a revised plan for next, if we stay up, I am sure about that. We are talking about now, and yes, little things could always be better, but the overall dynamics of what the team is doing is great at the mo.

It would be too bigger risk at the moment to change things

[Norwich R Us 59]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Have Man.C not made a change to their team in the league?

They are unbeaten all season....

Top sides always change their team about, the odd change here and there pretty much every game. Doesn''t do them much harm. But then again we are little old Norwich, just happy to have the chance to play in this league and celebrate a victory over Man.U like a non-league side beating them in the FA Cup 3rd round. We dare not dream we might actually be good enough to finish top half of the table, we are well and truly in a relegation battle until we get bought by a billionaire who can pay the wages of a load of talentless has beens and a few bright sparks who don''t like each other so can''t play as a team.[/quote]

Yes our squad, fixture list and ambitions are very similar to Man City, excellent comparison.So you are happy with the defensive style, but think the attack needs to improve. I forgot how simple football was, we''ll be winning every game 2-0 in no time, we''ll probably win the league next season, yay!

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]You do know i''m not Sir Alex Ferguson? He probably doesn''t know how to use the internet, he''s quite happy with his chewing gum... And you''re a prat.[/quote]

 

What a relief! Not just me then. Seems to be a bit of a pattern emerging.

[nutty nigel 7,608]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Have Man.C not made a change to their team in the league? They are unbeaten all season.... Top sides always change their team about, the odd change here and there pretty much every game. Doesn''t do them much harm. But then again we are little old Norwich, just happy to have the chance to play in this league and celebrate a victory over Man.U like a non-league side beating them in the FA Cup 3rd round. We dare not dream we might actually be good enough to finish top half of the table, we are well and truly in a relegation battle until we get bought by a billionaire who can pay the wages of a load of talentless has beens and a few bright sparks who don''t like each other so can''t play as a team.[/quote]

 

That''s me out of the debate Gpele and a lot of your credibility gone too.

 

 

[Josh 0]

All this talk about "could haves, should haves and would haves", constantly reflecting on missed chances and which personal to replace (despite being 9 unbeaten) is insufferable! Those of you who think like this will NEVER be satisfied, and frankly, that''s a shame. I''m sorry to say we won''t win every game, and missed opportunities IS PART OF FOOTBALL. Versus Sunderland I happen to think our final balls were better. Just stop analyzing, leave it to the manager and enjoy the ride. It''s the same for all teams. Imagine being a Man City fan, they probably think they should be on maximum points by now as "our deliveries was poor in that game we drew, Tevez missed a sitter, Aguero missed 2 chances, if only Mancini played Dzeko we would. have won.." We''re all biased towards our teams. We all think there is room for improvement but if you''re making a big issue over it on an internet forum, after 9 games unbeaten, I think it''s time to turn off the computer, go outside and GET LAID.

[RvWs 4 year contract 0]

I think a lot of people are being unrealistic.We need to be pragmatic this season and that means- doing all that we can to stay in this league.Chasing silly dreams of european spots and top half finishes can wait until we have 40 points and survival.  Saying that "we''re not scoring enough goals" is a ridiculous thing to say!Reading have scored a lot more than us this season and look at them... By all means have LONG TERM aims and ambitions for the club- I''m sure McNasty does- but this season has GOT TO BE about staying up.Hell at the start of this year people were saying we''d finish rock bottom! Can''t have it both ways folks...

[zemas tendon 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]You do know i''m not Sir Alex Ferguson? He probably doesn''t know how to use the internet, he''s quite happy with his chewing gum... And you''re a prat.[/quote]

 

Sorry........ Your right your Not Sir Alex.......... He actuallys works for a living!!

Now get back to class so you can tell Mr Hughton how to run the team!!

[Barclay hero 0]

Nutty

I think I can see what GP is trying to say - essentially that we need to improve and to improve it needs the 1st 11 to be "refreshed" with new faces now and again

I dont think hes necessarily lost credibility over that opinion - this is a discussion forum after all - although I dont agree with him necessarily, and I can see you definitely dont

GP

Changing the team will have one of 2 outcomes - either the players coming in will be "Hungry" and will take the team onwards, whilst those left out will be itching to get back in.  That I think is the essence of your posts?

OR - the players coming in wont do any better and the players left out (having done so well) will get fed up, hand in transfer requests, create a bad atmosphere round the team

In reality you''ll probably see instances of both

 

Personally Im with Nutty - if it aint broke dont fix it.  If Holt was dropping his workrate, if Pilkington was failing to beat his opposite number then I think you''d have a point, but theyre not failing, theyre not even looking particularly jaded.  Certainly they dont need resting.  Contrast this to Arsenal, who do look knackered and disinterested - OK they have the CL games on top but to be honest we''re talking one extra game every other week on average. Well within the capabilities of fit young international footballers.  More to the point theyre not a happy camp for whatever reason

 

If we were throwing points away because the players were giving 100%, getting knackered and giving soft goals away in the last 5 then Id say your other point over earlier substitutions would be a fair comment.  But we''re more likely to score than concede, so that doesnt hold much water.  I''d rather have Holt on the pitch than Jackson any day.  Im not in the anti-Morison brigade and I think he could score as many as Holt has given a decent run - BUT Holt brings more options to include others in the game, including going out on the wing.  Changing the team potentially alters the balance

 

We''re on a good run at the moment.  Time to change will be if we lose a couple.  Certainly not now.  I think Hughton knows this, certainly hes found a winning combination either by accident or design, and thats why he''s paid a lot of money to do what he does.  Playing Football Manager on XBox or whatever is not even close to "real football" and too many people on here think theyre experts just because theyve spent £30 on a computer game

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

[quote user="lake district canary"]The point is - from my point of view anyway - is that the same players that are on the pitch could be doing better.    The potential is frightening because if we do improve that final ball in then we are going to score more goals - and not concede many.      I thought it was going to happen on Sunday when we were doing so well in the first half.  



I''ll say it again.  The team that are on the pitch are not yet reaching their full potential.     They can improve.      We do not have to make changes - although I wouldn''t complain if we did - after all Bennett and Bunn have come in and done well.    Its simple.   At the attacking end of the field we are getting good positions but not capitalising on them enough.   That first half was better against Sunderland - it had glimpses of what I mean - but there is room for improvement.   The second half showed how we can still learn.   Hughton''s team is still a work in progress - they''re doing great - but personally I''m looking forward to seeing our forward play improving during the rest of the season.  It will happen because we have the players out there that can do it.    Its very exciting because the potential to do what WBA are doing now is here at Norwich.  



Its a case of, yes, we''re doing great - but the possibilities for doing even better are there - and without necessarily changing the team that much. 




[/quote]

I echo all the points you''ve made here LDC!

Stay the same and we''ll do fine - should we improve (and we can) we could be pretty awesome! I''d describe my views not as being negative but ''positively discontent'' which is certainly not the same thing.

Good times these, so let''s enjoy it all...

[nutty nigel 7,608]

[quote user="Barclay hero"]

Nutty

I think I can see what GP is trying to say - essentially that we need to improve and to improve it needs the 1st 11 to be "refreshed" with new faces now and again

I dont think hes necessarily lost credibility over that opinion - this is a discussion forum after all - although I dont agree with him necessarily, and I can see you definitely dont

[/quote]

 

I think you misunderstand me buddy. I enjoyed the debate with GPele and he made some very good points none of which lost him any credibility. In fact all credit to him for taking part in an interesting debate. Where I feel he lost credibility was by joining the forum thicko''s by implying that those who disagree were being "little old Norwich". That just closes debate and did him no favours whatsoever. That response should be left to those who can''t debate their points of view.

 

 

[Norfolkn Good 0]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Have Man.C not made a change to their team in the league?

They are unbeaten all season....

Top sides always change their team about, the odd change here and there pretty much every game. Doesn''t do them much harm. But then again we are little old Norwich, just happy to have the chance to play in this league and celebrate a victory over Man.U like a non-league side beating them in the FA Cup 3rd round. We dare not dream we might actually be good enough to finish top half of the table, we are well and truly in a relegation battle until we get bought by a billionaire who can pay the wages of a load of talentless has beens and a few bright sparks who don''t like each other so can''t play as a team.[/quote]

You''re serious aren''t you?

Man City made changes on Saturday and brought on Balotelli, Aguero and Zabaleta. What''s that, about £70m worth?

They have every right to think that a change will be worth it - I''d humbly suggest that may not be the case with us.....

[hogesar 9,738]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]Have Man.C not made a change to their team in the league?

They are unbeaten all season....

Top sides always change their team about, the odd change here and there pretty much every game. Doesn''t do them much harm. But then again we are little old Norwich, just happy to have the chance to play in this league and celebrate a victory over Man.U like a non-league side beating them in the FA Cup 3rd round. We dare not dream we might actually be good enough to finish top half of the table, we are well and truly in a relegation battle until we get bought by a billionaire who can pay the wages of a load of talentless has beens and a few bright sparks who don''t like each other so can''t play as a team.[/quote]Thanks for, yet again, demonstrating that you''re a massive tit. I''ll try and do this one by one.1) Man City are unbeaten but oddly enough they have players worth 30 million sitting on the bench which we don''t have. I don''t think i need to delve any deeper into this.2) Little old Norwich? I think most opposition fans reading this thread would be thinking along the same lines as 95% of everybody else. What are you complaining about? Poor Nutty got confused with your pages upon pages of text which pretty much contradicted yourself endlessly and made the same point your first line did without actually helping your argument whatsoever.3) We''re in a fantastic position but it would be naive to suggest we might not end up battling towards the bottom end of the table again if a few injuries kick in at the same time etc.You''ve made several points about chances not being finished but i don''t understand what you want to happen? Sometimes they go in, sometimes they don''t. The players do work on finishing in training - you do know this yes? We''re creating a bit less than last season but conceding a heck of alot less and that is for the better.

[zemas tendon 0]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="Gingerpele"]Have Man.C not made a change to their team in the league? They are unbeaten all season.... Top sides always change their team about, the odd change here and there pretty much every game. Doesn''t do them much harm. But then again we are little old Norwich, just happy to have the chance to play in this league and celebrate a victory over Man.U like a non-league side beating them in the FA Cup 3rd round. We dare not dream we might actually be good enough to finish top half of the table, we are well and truly in a relegation battle until we get bought by a billionaire who can pay the wages of a load of talentless has beens and a few bright sparks who don''t like each other so can''t play as a team.[/quote]

Thanks for, yet again, demonstrating that you''re a massive tit. I''ll try and do this one by one.

1) Man City are unbeaten but oddly enough they have players worth 30 million sitting on the bench which we don''t have. I don''t think i need to delve any deeper into this.

2) Little old Norwich? I think most opposition fans reading this thread would be thinking along the same lines as 95% of everybody else. What are you complaining about? Poor Nutty got confused with your pages upon pages of text which pretty much contradicted yourself endlessly and made the same point your first line did without actually helping your argument whatsoever.

3) We''re in a fantastic position but it would be naive to suggest we might not end up battling towards the bottom end of the table again if a few injuries kick in at the same time etc.

You''ve made several points about chances not being finished but i don''t understand what you want to happen? Sometimes they go in, sometimes they don''t. The players do work on finishing in training - you do know this yes? We''re creating a bit less than last season but conceding a heck of alot less and that is for the better.
[/quote]

 

Spot on!!!!!!!!!

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="zemas tendon"]

[quote user="Gingerpele"]You do know i''m not Sir Alex Ferguson? He probably doesn''t know how to use the internet, he''s quite happy with his chewing gum... And you''re a prat.[/quote]

 

Sorry........ Your right your Not Sir Alex.......... He actuallys works for a living!!

Now get back to class so you can tell Mr Hughton how to run the team!!

[/quote]

I have never tried to tell Hughton how to run the team you imbecile. I have given my opinion.

Oh, and I have a job. So shut up.

[Gingerpele 0]

What exactly do some of you think i''m suggesting?

I have never said we are rubbish.

I have never said we have any poor players.

I have never said we should change the whole team.

Bennett starting. Is all i''m suggesting as a possibility. And maybe Morison getting a little more game time.

I have not constantly contradicted myself, you are just making that up. And sorry if I have to write a lot, get over it. Its quite frankly ridiculous that you feel the need to have a go at me for writing a lot.

I am not a massive tit, you are for being such a douchebag over someones opinion. GET OVER IT. Its my opinion, i am not the only person who thinks it, why haven''t people had a go at people who have agreed with me? Its pathetic.

[Bill 1,788]

"Chasing silly dreams of european spots and top half finishes can wait until we have 40 points and survival"

 

What absolute, absurd nonsense.

 

How on earth can we be trying to achieve one without the other ? How are three points gained on Sunday only counted towards a 40 point total and not a mid table finish or European spot ? It is not like a game of pontoon where you can choose to stick, rather than continue and risk losing it all.

 

Likewise there is no mythical survival total. Teams have been relegated with 40 points, in fact West Ham were relegated with 42 points. So how on earth can you be setting any target when no one knows what the final total will be ? You cannot, Therefore the team has to play to win as many points as possible which means any league position is still (until maths says otherwise) possible.

 

Maybe we should get out our flat caps again and wring them whilst desperately trying to stay in 17 place, which does guarantee ''survival''. The problem there is that last season the 17th place team didn''t achieve 19 points until the third week of January, so we would have to lose the next seven games or so to hit that target.

 

Which for some would be far more preferable than to risk it all by gambling on a mid table finish or a European place. After all, we could lose a few games trying to do that couldn''t we.

 

 

[Houston Canary 0]

The OP''s title, accompanying emoticon and comment strike me as ironic - a negative thread to complain about negativity on the PinkUn forum.