Building for the Championship

[the duke of norfolk 0]

If we sign CMS then it does appear that my fears that we are secretly preparing for life in the Championship are true.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Chase out!

[JF 694]

If this goes through then I think Championship football next season will be signed, sealed and delivered. A real signing of intent.

[kick it off 2,062]

Wow, thanks for starting another CMs thread, especially one as insightful as this.

Were you disappointed when we signed League 2 journeyman Grant Holt? What about our entire midfield from Lg 1 or Champs?

McNally, Hughton and Delia have obviously formulated a cunning plan to get us relegated. That''s the only answer. They don''t want any part of the massive reward from the TV deal next season so they''ve decided to take us down.

[Rolf Harris 33]

[quote user="kick it off"]Wow, thanks for starting another CMs thread, especially one as insightful as this.

Were you disappointed when we signed League 2 journeyman Grant Holt? What about our entire midfield from Lg 1 or Champs?

McNally, Hughton and Delia have obviously formulated a cunning plan to get us relegated. That''s the only answer. They don''t want any part of the massive reward from the TV deal next season so they''ve decided to take us down.

We were in league 1

[/quote]

[Graham Humphrey 13]

This forum has pretty much become a parody of itself.

[Chunky Norwich 0]

Just out of interest, how can buying a new player for an existing squad get us relegated? Do we get docked points for signing Brighton players?

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="Chunky Norwich"]Just out of interest, how can buying a new player for an existing squad get us relegated? Do we get docked points for signing Brighton players?[/quote]No, but a good example would be if the likes of Holt and Moro got injured and we were relying on CMS to perform to keep us up, if he fails to perform, the knock-on effect could be relegation...

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Indy, are you completely oblivious to our financial situation, or do you just choose to ignore it for sh*ts and giggles?

[CanaryOne 0]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Indy, are you completely oblivious to our financial situation, or do you just choose to ignore it for sh*ts and giggles?[/quote]We are probably one of the least in debt football clubs in the country , debt free next season isnt it ?

[Rolf Harris 33]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Indy, are you completely oblivious to our financial situation, or do you just choose to ignore it for sh*ts and giggles?Where have they said we are poor?[/quote]

[Lets be aving you! 0]

Hell, time for Plan A. Let''s go and borrow the millions we need but simply don''t have from the banks. Wait a moment, they''re not willing to lend anymore, strangely enough in times of financial crisis.

 

Plan B, then. Let''s borrow off our mega-rich investors. Wait a moment, we don''t have any.

 

Plan C, then. CMS or the equivalent.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

No one has said we are poor, people seem to be implying quite the opposite though.

[Rolf Harris 33]

Hell, time for Plan A. Let''s go and borrow the millions we need but simply don''t have from the banks. Wait a moment, they''re not willing to lend anymore, strangely enough in times of financial crisis.

 

Plan B, then. Let''s borrow off our mega-rich investors. Wait a moment, we don''t have any.

 

Plan C, then. CMS or the equivalent.- There is a lot better players out there for the same price.

[Yellow Wal 315]

Indy - I usually agree with much that you say but I have reservations this time.

You have mentioned Andy Carroll and Michael Owen in another thread. Of the two I could consider Owen but Carroll surely must be a non-starter. Yes we need a striker but as we have seen many times now Grant Holt and Steve Morrison rarely play together as they are too similar and do not gel together. For all those people who wanted GH at the Euros it was as a replacement for Carroll, not to play with him!

I could not for one moment think that AC and GH could play in the same team so that rules him out. Michael Owen could possibly play with GH or SM but his fitness would be a worry and his wages would be high.

For these reasons I am prepared to consider CMS. At Peterborough he was prolific, playing alongside Aaron McLean. At Brighton he has often played as a lone striker, a role which does not suit his game.

We are surely looking for a striker to play off either GH or SM as we only have Simeon Jackson for that role as I now consider C Martin to be a player to play a deeper game, possibly pushing on from a midfield position with a lone striker. If we want to play with two up front we need a player in the mould of Jackson. That is not Carroll but it may be CMS.

Before Hughton signs anyone he will have assessed them. And if he feels they fit the bill, then that''s OK by me.............. until he can find somebody better!

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Indy, are you completely oblivious to our financial situation, or do you just choose to ignore it for sh*ts and giggles?[/quote]Absolutely not, but if the players we''re being linked with aren''t better than what we have - what''s the point in signing them - Particularly if funds are tighter than we might think?I''m happy with every other signing we''ve made so far and feel they will all add something to the squad, I don''t think CMS would, and I''d rather we either spent a bit more for real quality (assuming we can afford to), or saved the money for Jan where it might be better spent.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

[quote user="the duke of norfolk"]If we sign CMS then it does appear that my fears that we are secretly preparing for life in the Championship are true.[/quote]

As you''ve made it quite clear to many of us that you''re an Ipswich supporter, why would it worry you if we ended up in the Championship? Surely you''d be delighted, no?

[Mr Brownstone 0]

CMS, if this is even true, will add depth in an area where we are short of numbers. We''re better off going into the season with him onboard than without. A couple of injuries and we''d be in serious trouble, he''ll give options and add competition.

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]Carroll surely must be a non-starter. Yes we need a striker but as we have seen many times now Grant Holt and Steve Morrison rarely play together as they are too similar and do not gel together. For all those people who wanted GH at the Euros it was as a replacement for Carroll, not to play with him!

I could not for one moment think that AC and GH could play in the same team so that rules him out.[/quote]I don''t actually see why they couldn''t play together, with Carroll the furthest forward and Holt slightly off him for knockdowns etc.Both will cause nightmares for even the strongest defenders, and aerially there wouldn''t be a better strike force in the entire league.We might need to change the way we play slightly, but with players like Pilks and Snoddy providing the balls in from the wing, neither would be short of good supply.The key issues with Carroll are his wages, transfer fee and ''rep'', and I think we can do a reasonable deal such as West Ham were offering for the fee, Hughton can obviously handle his personality and then it''s purely down to wages. I genuinely believe that we could make this happen if we really wanted to, I just don''t see it being the case.[quote]Michael Owen could possibly play with GH or SM but his fitness would be a worry and his wages would be high.[/quote]Agreed, but the point is about improving on what we have, not signing someone of the same standard or worse, and CMS is totally unproven at this level.[quote]At Peterborough he was prolific, playing alongside Aaron McLean.[/quote]In League 1 he was prolific, in the CCC he''s been extremely average and not scored anywhere near as many or as consistently. If he can''t score regularly in the CCC, what makes him good enough for the prem?

[Legend Iwan 30]

How about, IB, and I''m playing devils advocate here, because if we bring players in of similar standard to the squad we currently have we then have reinforcements for a team that reached 12th last year?

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

The only reason that I would fancy Owen in the yellow is as an impact sub with thirty minutes to go in a game that we are behind. I would be happy with that scenario as he is class, a goal scorer and still capable of pulling something out of the hat. He is not actually too old as yet, although his injury record gives the impression that he might be.

 

The only reason that he would want to come to Nodge is that he fancies a final tilt at Premiership defenders. Going out with glory, so to speak.

 

If the financial arrangements were right, and the millionaire Owen might be less interested in a pay day than we think, then get him on board CH. What possible harm could come from it? He''s a decent pro who commands a lot of respect.  Massively experienced, he could not be other than a good influence in the dressing room.

 

Five or six goals from "sniffer" Owen at the right time might just be the difference between  succes and failure in our limited aims for this season. Quite frankly, nothing to lose.

[Chunky Norwich 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Chunky Norwich"]Just out of interest, how can buying a new player for an existing squad get us relegated? Do we get docked points for signing Brighton players?[/quote]
No, but a good example would be if the likes of Holt and Moro got injured and we were relying on CMS to perform to keep us up, if he fails to perform, the knock-on effect could be relegation...
[/quote]

But if we don''t sign him then we have one less back-up. Or Martin and Jackson to be precise

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]How about, IB, and I''m playing devils advocate here, because if we bring players in of similar standard to the squad we currently have we then have reinforcements for a team that reached 12th last year?[/quote]The thing is that I''m really happy with every other part of the squad and feel they have the capability to perform just as well if not better than last season, the problem will come if some of the key players are injured and our backup options aren''t good enough.In no way are the likes of Jackson and Chris Martin good enough to cover an extended injury layoff to Holt or Moro (and even Moro has potential issues), and neither would CMS be.Therefore we need to get someone in who can not only challenge Holt for the top dog spot upfront, but be good enough to replace him in the event of a serious injury etc.If we were looking to sign a striker of the same quality as Holt then I''d totally agree with you, but CMS is certainly nowhere near that standard IMHO.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

It''s all very well saying that Indy, but how do you propose that is paid for?

[Bury Yellow 2]

I fear for CMS if he does come to us. Holty is one of the greatest City heroes of all time but not if you read some of the opinions on this board.

As I think Nutty said the other day, if you keep moaning about him for long enough, eventually you have every chance to be proved correct.

If CMS does arrive it means CH rates him and I think he could be a very useful addition.

[Lets be aving you! 0]

Going rate for a good Championship-level striker seems to be about 8 million (Rodriguez). Rhodes was League 1 and has just gone for 8 million as well.

 

What if, as is likely, we don''t have 8 million, but more like, say, 3 million.

 

Who out there can we get for that and who is better than CMS? Not including players from foreign leagues, for whom we don''t appear to have the scouting network other than possibly Scandinavia (Garrido was already known from his Prem days).

[JF 694]

"Going rate for a good Championship-level striker seems to be about 8 million (Rodriguez). Rhodes was League 1 and has just gone for 8 million as well.

What if, as is likely, we don''t have 8 million, but more like, say, 3 million.

Who out there can we get for that and who is better than CMS? Not including players from foreign leagues, for whom we don''t appear to have the scouting network other than possibly Scandinavia (Garrido was already known from his Prem days)."

Then we should have just kept Vaughan and given him a chance to show what he can do. If CMS comes in then to me this looks like a ridiculous deal to loan out a player that is probably better than the one we bring in.

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="JF"]Who out there can we get for that and who is better than CMS? Not including players from foreign leagues, for whom we don''t appear to have the scouting network other than possibly Scandinavia (Garrido was already known from his Prem days)."

Then we should have just kept Vaughan and given him a chance to show what he can do. If CMS comes in then to me this looks like a ridiculous deal to loan out a player that is probably better than the one we bring in.[/quote]THIS!

[Lets be aving you! 0]

"Then we should have just kept Vaughan and given him a chance to show what he can do. If CMS comes in then to me this looks like a ridiculous deal to loan out a player that is probably better than the one we bring in."

 

And what if, as has been widely speculated, Vaughan was unsettled and was the one who wanted the move?

 

Vaughan did have a chance to show what he could do, but kept getting injured, as he has done throughout his career. He was reputedly on high wages. And his scoring record on loan to Palace was nothing special, from memory no better than CMS''s.

[ricardo 8,033]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="JF"]Who out there can we get for that and who is better than CMS? Not including players from foreign leagues, for whom we don''t appear to have the scouting network other than possibly Scandinavia (Garrido was already known from his Prem days)."

Then we should have just kept Vaughan and given him a chance to show what he can do. If CMS comes in then to me this looks like a ridiculous deal to loan out a player that is probably better than the one we bring in.[/quote]THIS![/quote]Nobody knows the reason behind the Vaughan loan. It may have been personal reasons it may have been doubts about his long term fitness. Whatever the reason CH made, he has to live or die by it. Personally I see no reason to doubt his judgement yet.