Larger capacity

[yoda 0]

Given that we were told that the plan was to increase the capacity in the 3rd year of the premier league then it could be said this season is very important in the life of Norwich city football club that respect . It''s obviously an important decision either way which will have an impact on season ticket numbers etc etc , i just wonder if this is 100% going ahead also if we manage to stay up by the skin of our teeth would this affect the judgement of whether to go ahead or not ?

[Bill 1,788]

Nope, there NEVER was or is any plan.

 

What was said was " they would consider expanding the stadium only after two consecutive years in the Premier League."

 

What should be borne in mind is -

"But he pointed out that it cost about £2,500 per seat in a “new build”, so it would cost £20m to increase capacity by 8,000.

City would lose £1.4m in gate income from lost capacity while building work was in progress and it would take nine years to pay back the building cost "

 

We currently earn around £7m in gate money. Add an extra 20% capacity (and a presumed 20% increase in revenue) and nine years looks exceedingly generous.

 

That assumes ticket demand remains as high as it is now and we stay in the PL for those nine years as a minimum.

 

 

[Steady On... 0]

Well, you took that a bit seriously

[ThorpeCanary 71]

Not sure how we would do this. If knocking down the city stand was the only option what would we do about those season ticket holders?

[TIL 1010 4,798]

Expect a visit from Tom Cavendish very shortly.[;)]

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

[quote user="ThorpeCanary"]Not sure how we would do this. If knocking down the city stand was the only option what would we do about those season ticket holders?[/quote]

No casual tickets?

H

[Bill 1,788]

he does have a big business to run as well as being a fairly important football scout so we may have to wait a while 

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,798]

[quote user="City1st"]

he does have a big business to run as well as being a fairly important football scout so we may have to wait a while 

 

 

[/quote]

I heard he was either at Norwich airport or at The Showground.[:D]

[ThorpeCanary 71]

"No casual tickets?"

Would that add up? im not sure what the capacity of the city stand is but I assume we would still have to offer 10% of whatever our capacity would be to the away fans, then cutting out casual tickets completely (that will stop the moans about cost!) and maybe a further reduction from people who do not renew their tickets mean it might get a fair bit closer to working out.

I do agree with what was said above about this not being financially viable for a few more years yet, which is a shame as I really think getting the city stand up to size would really compliment the ground

[Bill 1,788]

There around 4000 in the Main Stand - though I doubt they would take too kindly to being shoved in elsewhere while the work is going on.

 

Natural wastage with season tickets might provide some seats and there maybe an argument for having slightly less away fans (lower capacity) but it would be a logistical nightmare, for what ?

 

I don''t think there''s any City fan who would not want a new stand that fitted in with the rest of the ground - but the practicalities of it are considerable.

 

We have to deal with what we have, and what can be done - not want we want.

 

 

[ThorpeCanary 71]

I agree, I didnt realise a new stand would cost as much as 16m either! It does seem what with the TV rights package the premier league are getting next year (think i read somewhere even the bottom team receiving more than £60m) that the money is spent in the right places. Possible money gained through extra attendance seems almost nothing in comparison.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="yoda"]Larger capacity[/quote]I can manage about four pints of Stella, maybe five or six Heineken.Oh, sorry.

[nutty nigel 7,641]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="yoda"]Larger capacity[/quote]

I can manage about four pints of Stella, maybe five or six Heineken.

Oh, sorry.

[/quote]

 

Two and a half Taddy?

 

I think Tilly can manage 3 but then.... [B][B][B][+o(]

 

[Victor Segura and the Yellow Cards 0]

It''s a shame there isn''t a regular poster who has the facility to meet with Mr Bowkett, at his invitation, to discuss the finer points of the potential financing of ground expansion or the contracts of club employees etc

That way they could share their findings and we might genuinely find out the plans and their financial feasibility given that I''m pretty sure we still have a budgetary contingency plan to cope with relegation and the potential pitfalls that come with it.

[Pudd 1]

[quote user="City1st"]City would lose £1.4m in gate income from lost capacity while building work was in progress and it would take nine years to pay back the building cost[/quote]

I''m really in two minds over this. The demand is clear - we regularly filled the stadium when in the third tier, but now it''s a closed shop... we''re at capacity and that means no room for youngsters to get season tickets when they''re getting into football etc....

We all know from experience that following football is addictive. While the ground remains full to capacity, and virtually impossible for new supporters to come along, less people will have the exposure to the live football which may get them hooked.

Also, I''m not sure those figures account for knock on increased revenues... larger crowds means more valuable sponsorship opportunities, more teas, beers and pies sold at half time, more shirts being sold, and therefore more yellow and green in town promoting the club further.

On the other hand, we also saw the damage that investing in bricks and mortar did when the team really needed that investment in the past.

As much as I''d like the club to have a 35,000 seater stadium (which I think is about the right size for us), I''m swaying towards thinking it''s still a few years away from being the right move overall.

JP

[Bill 1,788]

There''s no real need for a meeting, as such

 

The figures are there to see - in both cost and returns

 

Returns seem ridiculously low when they currently only equate to finishing another two places up the table - which explains why the talk is always about finishing as high as possible rather than the ever so ''umble  ''17th place is good enough for the likes of us, guv'' that often gets bleated out on here

 

"I didnt realise a new stand would cost as much as £16m either!" 

it won''t, at 8000 seats the figure quoted is £20m, plus loss of income on top

 

 

 

 

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

It cannot be about financial gain primarily.

A new City Stand is needed along with improved facilities such as those contained in the current stand, such as changing rooms.

The Club has a duty to facilitate spectator numbers and such flexibility sadly missing at the moment as friends and family being able to sit together or even attend.

Based upon recouping costs the stand would never be built, like a lot with football it is a heart decision as well as a head one.

I have previously suggested we have a name sponsored ground. Why not, the Aviva stand with that company including floor space for itself? Why not a multi use stand with a wider revenue scope?

At the moment I fear the main barrier is one facing so many businesses and that is an inability to borrow to expand. But there is money in corporations waiting for the recession to end before they invest. The big money being from overseas note names like Emirates and Etihad but they tend to look to London as Fernandes did.

[Steady On... 0]

There is zero issue here. We will expand the ground as we expand as a football team. Thats natural progression. If people miss a few games in the city stand so be it.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Wasnt the Jarrold stand built with this in mind? I had also heard the same talk, and thought the same about the importance of staying up.

I thnink we''d fill the 35,000 stadium enough even in the championship so long as we were challenging for the playoffs at least.

It would also be an investment. The ground would be worth more as a result.

[Steady On... 0]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Wasnt the Jarrold stand built with this in mind? I had also heard the same talk, and thought the same about the importance of staying up.

I thnink we''d fill the 35,000 stadium enough even in the championship so long as we were challenging for the playoffs at least.

It would also be an investment. The ground would be worth more as a result.[/quote]

 

It''s blatantly the city stand, I can''t understand it when people say it''s the jarrold stand thats to be upgraded.

[nutty nigel 7,641]

This will be the view whilst we are reasonably successful. The tide will turn when the cycle of success on the field takes a down turn. Then we will have every penny spent on the stadium used as a stick to beat the club. The Jarrold was a good idea ''til we started losing...

 

I wouldn''t build another stand.

 

 

[Bws Cat 0]

I always thought the Wensum stand needed a bit of an upgrade...

On topic however, i''m afraid City1st is right, the numbers do not lie and they do the talking here. We simply cannot afford right now to just build an upgrade onto the City stand (Not to mention shoving everybody out). Let''s just be patient and wait until the time is right.

The golden scum built a nice new shiny stand which will look lovely in the championship. Let''s not go the same way!

[Yellowfuture 71]

I hope we do build a new stand, not sure why it couldnt go on top of the City stand, if you sit in the Jarrold, as I did pre season, the natural lines of the stadium would be for an upper tier on the City stand to join pretty seamlessly with the Barclay and the River end. Does anyone really know whether the foundations to the City stand are up to an additional tier, this often seems to be a point of debate without an informed answer.

[Bws Cat 0]

If we do build an extra stand it MUST be called the Wensum stand or "The wizards tower" in his lords honour.

[TIL 1010 4,798]

[quote user="Victor Segura and the Yellow Cards"]It''s a shame there isn''t a regular poster who has the facility to meet with Mr Bowkett, at his invitation, to discuss the finer points of the potential financing of ground expansion or the contracts of club employees etc.[/quote]

I think it is a case of those that know do know and those that don''t do not.

[No Swoop Done 0]

Is it now something like over 10 years with our league games being over 20,000+ at home? Can''t see how people think there could be a down turn. We went down to League 1 and still turned up in our masses. Even during the low times in the Championship, we still pulled in far more fans that that tinpot club down the A140.

The Main/City/what ever you want to call it needs replacing. Looks dire and dated when ever on TV. It would only be for one season, it''s time to move on with the times and get more fans in.

[nutty nigel 7,641]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"]I hope we do build a new stand, not sure why it couldnt go on top of the City stand, if you sit in the Jarrold, as I did pre season, the natural lines of the stadium would be for an upper tier on the City stand to join pretty seamlessly with the Barclay and the River end. Does anyone really know whether the foundations to the City stand are up to an additional tier, this often seems to be a point of debate without an informed answer.[/quote]

 

I seem to remember Bowkett saying it would be a rebuild.

 

Purple''s the man who''d know.

 

[nutty nigel 7,641]

There is a down side. And that down side is it has to be paid for. And however it''s financed it will be paid for with money that would otherwise be given to the manager to spend on the team.

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

"There is zero issue here. We will expand the ground as we expand as a football team. Thats natural progression. If people miss a few games in the city stand so be it."

 

I don''t know what a ''zero issue'' is but I do know this would be a major problem the club doesn''t need.

 

1. Those being moved are some of the most long term supporters with seats being held for decades within their family. They carry far more weight than a few glory hunters.

 

2. The cost. At full capacity for every game the revenue would just about cover the interest on the loan,. Factor in lower ticket price to stimulate demand or relegation and you are looking at draining money from elsewhere to subsidise it.

 

3. TV money. I don''t think some fans have a clue how little the gate receipts are as part of the overall revenue. If there was any loss of TV money the club would be in a very tight spot. It could perhaps shift players off it''s books, but not this type of debt.

 

4. Attendances. There have been games last season where there was not a sellout. To aim towards break even the ground would have to be full for EVERY games, with NO further price reductions. That is exceedingly unlikely.

 

At the moment the club is doing exeptionally well. It doesn''t need to put that at risk for some folly to pander to the whims of a few over excited happy clappies and glory hunters

 

 

[Steady On... 0]

[quote user="City1st"]

"There is zero issue here. We will expand the ground as we expand as a football team. Thats natural progression. If people miss a few games in the city stand so be it."

 

I don''t know what a ''zero issue'' is but I do know this would be a major problem the club doesn''t need.

 

1. Those being moved are some of the most long term supporters with seats being held for decades within their family. They carry far more weight than a few glory hunters.

 

2. The cost. At full capacity for every game the revenue would just about cover the interest on the loan,. Factor in lower ticket price to stimulate demand or relegation and you are looking at draining money from elsewhere to subsidise it.

 

3. TV money. I don''t think some fans have a clue how little the gate receipts are as part of the overall revenue. If there was any loss of TV money the club would be in a very tight spot. It could perhaps shift players off it''s books, but not this type of debt.

 

4. Attendances. There have been games last season where there was not a sellout. To aim towards break even the ground would have to be full for EVERY games, with NO further price reductions. That is exceedingly unlikely.

 

At the moment the club is doing exeptionally well. It doesn''t need to put that at risk for some folly to pander to the whims of a few over excited happy clappies and glory hunters

 

 

[/quote]

 

I think the last staement illuminates what your really all about, you just don''t want the club to expand because you have little old Norwich mentality. You can''t halt change, it is coming, the stadium will get bigger when it''s tiome to get bigger. I honestly don''t think we''re too far away from that. supply and demand, very simple business.