Fraser Forster (or anyone but Ruddy)

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

OK, Ruddy is not( and, to be fair, has never claimed to be) the finished article. Unlike the Man Citys of this world, we cannot just go out and buy International class keepers to click their heels on the bench half the time . Even the big clubs have keepers that cost them points with blunders from time to time.  Gomes (Spurs), Almunia and Sczezny (Arse), Ricardo (Chelsea) , anyone ?

 

To suggest that Fraser Forster, because he''s been tested within a millimetre of destruction by the feared strikers of Inverness CT, Motherwell, and St Johnstone is fanciful to say the least . He did great for us, but that was in League One for heavens'' sake.

 

On the basis that it''s pretty safe to say that PL will not be able to dust of the Delia chequebook and secure the services of Petr Cech, Iker Casillas or Joe Hart in January, let''s get behind JR, and stop picking holes in him.

[/quote]

 

Huzzah......Huzzah.......Huzzah! [Y]

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Eric Pickles Pie Supplier"]

OK, Ruddy is not( and, to be fair, has never claimed to be) the finished article. Unlike the Man Citys of this world, we cannot just go out and buy International class keepers to click their heels on the bench half the time . Even the big clubs have keepers that cost them points with blunders from time to time.  Gomes (Spurs), Almunia and Sczezny (Arse), Ricardo (Chelsea) , anyone ?

 

To suggest that Fraser Forster, because he''s been tested within a millimetre of destruction by the feared strikers of Inverness CT, Motherwell, and St Johnstone is fanciful to say the least . He did great for us, but that was in League One for heavens'' sake.

 

On the basis that it''s pretty safe to say that PL will not be able to dust of the Delia chequebook and secure the services of Petr Cech, Iker Casillas or Joe Hart in January, let''s get behind JR, and stop picking holes in him.

[/quote]

Yes.  Ruddy''s done okay and we won''t get better for the money we have available/wages we can offer.  Any other keeper in our price range/wage bracket would be an equal gamble.  I doubt we could afford the cost of Petr Cech''s headgear.

[Ruddygore 0]

PC, I just don''t know how you can have this achilles heel in your armoury but you''re a marked man now, the gloves are off lol!

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Ruddy Wizard"]PC, I just don''t know how you can have this achilles heel in your armoury but you''re a marked man now, the gloves are off lol![/quote]

 

RW, just bear in mind that you are taking on "this forum''s voice of reason" (First Wizard) who is "always right" (Ruddy Wizard)...[:D][:P][:D]

 

[alysha 0]

[quote user="Question Mark"]

Why, exactly, does it need to be someone ''experienced at this level''?

Tim Krul wasn''t exactly experienced, and neither was Vorm. Both have been exceptional so far.

As much as i like Ruddy, he does make too many mistakes. Would love to see Fraser back next season to properly challenege Big John for the jersey. Regardless of what some of you on this forum seem to think, competition for places can''t be a bad thing.

[/quote]

Tim Krul is a very good keeper, but I was watching Alan Pardew this morning who said that Krul used to frustrate him and his defenders had little confidence with him around but that he stuck with him and has become solid.

 

Also I wouldn''t say Vorm has been exceptional, he makes very good saves but very error prone - rolling a ball into the back of his players heel who wasn''t looking and so then gave Arsenal an open goal to score. Another game, I can''t remember the opponents (may have been Chelsea) the ball went straight under his body, a shot which should have easily been saved, and only last week against Villa - Vorm held up his hands to catch a ball, yet it went straight through his gloves and nearly deflected it into his own net.

 

As far as my own opinions go, I think Ruddy has been very solid so far this season and it wasn''t long ago that people were saying that he was an early contender for Player of the Season and deserved a call up for England. I think the thing does need to be worked on however, is communication between him and the back four.

[Beauseant 0]

Generally speaking, short of a basic lack of ability most things can be resolved by coaching and at lot of the knee jerk reactions would have us throw the baby out with the bathwater. Ruddy made three exceptional saves yesterday (the double block at the near post and the save from Balotelli''s first effort (hardly his fault it rebounded kindly) but from the other end of the ground the second goal looked awful (although watching the replay Tierney''s run directly across his eyeline didn''t help) and he does have previous here (remember the free kick that Derry should have finished against QPR). I think his basic problem in these situations is that he always seems to be flat footed because his first movement is always backwards. If you watch the replay of Nasri''s free kick you''ll see him take a couple of steps back which then make it impossible for him to get to the bounce of the ball.

It was poor technique, I accept, but surely this is what we have a goalkeeping coach for?

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

I reckon most keepers these day look dodgy from time to time? And Ruddy no more so than most.

Why?

Speed of the game.

Much higher percentage of very multi-skilled outfield players capable of ''the brilliant''.

Having to play with what used to be called a beach ball!!!!!!

Microscopical TV analysis.

Etc.

[8-|]

But still, one love.

OTBC

 

 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Beauseant"]

Generally speaking, short of a basic lack of ability most things can be resolved by coaching and at lot of the knee jerk reactions would have us throw the baby out with the bathwater. Ruddy made three exceptional saves yesterday (the double block at the near post and the save from Balotelli''s first effort (hardly his fault it rebounded kindly) but from the other end of the ground the second goal looked awful (although watching the replay Tierney''s run directly across his eyeline didn''t help) and he does have previous here (remember the free kick that Derry should have finished against QPR). I think his basic problem in these situations is that he always seems to be flat footed because his first movement is always backwards. If you watch the replay of Nasri''s free kick you''ll see him take a couple of steps back which then make it impossible for him to get to the bounce of the ball.

It was poor technique, I accept, but surely this is what we have a goalkeeping coach for?

[/quote]

 

Beau, I did raise the question of our goalkeeping coach on one of the other (many[;)]) threads about Ruddy. The current incumbent was a goalkeeper, although it is not clear from his CV whether he has ever specialised as a goalkeeping coach. But one of the advantages of the Premier League for clubs such as Norwich, with few midweek games and with international breaks, should  be the time to work on stuff like this on the training ground.

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Beauseant"]

Generally speaking, short of a basic lack of ability most things can be resolved by coaching and at lot of the knee jerk reactions would have us throw the baby out with the bathwater. Ruddy made three exceptional saves yesterday (the double block at the near post and the save from Balotelli''s first effort (hardly his fault it rebounded kindly) but from the other end of the ground the second goal looked awful (although watching the replay Tierney''s run directly across his eyeline didn''t help) and he does have previous here (remember the free kick that Derry should have finished against QPR). I think his basic problem in these situations is that he always seems to be flat footed because his first movement is always backwards. If you watch the replay of Nasri''s free kick you''ll see him take a couple of steps back which then make it impossible for him to get to the bounce of the ball.

It was poor technique, I accept, but surely this is what we have a goalkeeping coach for?

[/quote]

 

Beau, I did raise the question of our goalkeeping coach on one of the other (many[;)]) threads about Ruddy. The current incumbent was a goalkeeper, although it is not clear from his CV whether he has ever specialised as a goalkeeping coach. But one of the advantages of the Premier League for clubs such as Norwich, with few midweek games and with international breaks, should  be the time to work on stuff like this on the training ground.

[/quote]

 

One has to assume that they do. But then there is also the question of receptivity - not to mention the particular matchday psychological aspects.

 

Just to widen the discussion a little Purple, do we have a specialist defensive coach?

 

OTBC

[Syteanric 1]

Fraser forster was a goalkeeper for us in the 3rd division of English football and since he left the management havent tried to get him back as far as we have been made aware.we are now a Premiership side and Fraser foster has been deemed not good enough by his Employers at newcastle and by us....End of thread....

[GJP 79]

Ruddy:

The good bits - generally a good shot stopper and generally a good distributor.

The bad bits - slow on his feet and slow to react to situations, not a great communicator and very nervy on crosses that are close to goal.

 

I thought he started the season pretty well but since the Liverpool game he''s been shakey. Infact his performance against Liverpool was a mixed bag but fortunately it finished on a high note. At the moment he''s not a goalkeeper who inspires confidence and to think otherwise would be sticking your head in the sand.

[Lambo 0]

Ruddy will be a great Keeper for us and should be stuck with IMO, that said, i''d be tempted to look at Carlo Cudicini at Spurs. Gomes and Friedel ahead of him and Redknapp rumored to be looking at another GK, would be great to have round Ruddy and Rudd.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Beauseant"]

Generally speaking, short of a basic lack of ability most things can be resolved by coaching and at lot of the knee jerk reactions would have us throw the baby out with the bathwater. Ruddy made three exceptional saves yesterday (the double block at the near post and the save from Balotelli''s first effort (hardly his fault it rebounded kindly) but from the other end of the ground the second goal looked awful (although watching the replay Tierney''s run directly across his eyeline didn''t help) and he does have previous here (remember the free kick that Derry should have finished against QPR). I think his basic problem in these situations is that he always seems to be flat footed because his first movement is always backwards. If you watch the replay of Nasri''s free kick you''ll see him take a couple of steps back which then make it impossible for him to get to the bounce of the ball.

It was poor technique, I accept, but surely this is what we have a goalkeeping coach for?

[/quote]

 

Beau, I did raise the question of our goalkeeping coach on one of the other (many[;)]) threads about Ruddy. The current incumbent was a goalkeeper, although it is not clear from his CV whether he has ever specialised as a goalkeeping coach. But one of the advantages of the Premier League for clubs such as Norwich, with few midweek games and with international breaks, should  be the time to work on stuff like this on the training ground.

[/quote]

 

One has to assume that they do. But then there is also the question of receptivity - not to mention the particular matchday psychological aspects.

 

Just to widen the discussion a little Purple, do we have a specialist defensive coach?

 

OTBC

[/quote]

 

Not as far as I know. The first-team coach is Culverhouse, who was a defender, but I don''t think he specialises in defence, although I don''t doubt he takes an interest. Football (unlike gridiron or rugby) generally doesn''t split up areas of the team in such a regimented way anyway, apart from goalkeeping, which IS different.

[Drurys Testamonials 0]

[quote user="Making Plans"]

[quote user="Excited Canary"] The defense were more to blame than Ruddy for their 2nd goal - they should have headed it clear! Ruddy obviously only saw it late and by then there wasn''t much he could do.[/quote]

Agreed, the ball went closest to Tierney, he started to go for it, Ruddy thought he was too, Tierney then decides to leave it & it''s too late for Ruddy to react. It was either a 100% Tierney''s error or a joint cock up. 

[/quote]It shouldn''t be about thinking and second guessing. If the keeper wants the ball he should call for it as Tierney should have done too. They didn''t and Man City scored. Our defence doesn''t appear to talk to each other as well as they should.

[judderman 0]

Pointing the finger at Ruddy alone for the goal is ridiculous. As one of the match commentators said "Ruddy was sold a dummy by his own defence" - namely Tierney who went for the ball then backed out leaving Ruddy a millisecond to get across.The counter argument would be that Ruddy should have already been expecting the ball to end up where it did in case no one got to it, but you can''t do that for such a dangerous cross between the defense and the goal, it would mean any touch from the attacker and it''s a goal.Ruddy''s not the only one to fall foul of a pretty much identical goal -  Beckham scored a few of them, he would aim a free kick for the far post so it would go in if no one touched it, giving the keeper the same conundrum. I remember Robert Green conceding one or two.

[tom cavendish 0]

Ruddy was only just 25 a few weeks ago which is very young for a Prem keeper. He might not reach his peak for another 5 years or so. I think that he has done very well so far.FF is on a season long loan to Celtic, but he will be available for clubs to sign in the January transfer window. I think PL would have signed him before but he couldn''t afford him. More competition and cover would be good, so I think PL should sign FF now that he can afford him. He should then send DR out on-loan.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

I have to say that devoting a four page thread to what is basically a one-off goalkeeping blunder ,and the theoretical re-signing of a keeper we once had on loan, seems a bit OTT to me .

 

If JR''s gaffes were costing us big-style each week, or he was the only culprit in an otherwise error-free side, then there''d be some sense to it, but that''s far from the case.

 

Ruddy is no better nor worse than at least another dozen Prem Lge keepers....honestly, are Begovic, Al Habsi, Robinson, Kenny, Hennesey (to name but 5) any more effective than him? He will improve as the season wears on, and he is about the right standard for a lower half Prem team (which is what we are ).

[Syteanric 1]

we all seem to have short memories too... for a goalkeeper who screwed up week in, week out see David "i''m sh*t" marshall!Ruddy is lev Yashin in comparison...Ruddy is a good keeper and 1 mistake wont break him.

[yellow blood 0]

Fraser Forster is Cody McDonald in a goalkeeper''s shirt to some on here

[jed exodous 0]

Well there you go, Pepe Reina, supposedly one of the best keepers in the premier league if not world has just dropped a clanger, hes cost his team a point there, but I guess Fraser Forster would never do that...

 

Looks like we''ll have competition for a new keeper in January...

 

 

[jammis 0]

No, no, no. Replace Ruddy with Forster, are you nuts? What makes you think Forster will be any better.

And if it''s not Forster who do you think we should get.

Stop jumping the gun and give Ruddy a break.

[Yellow Rages 0]

Forster has struggled at times with Celtic this season and that''s at a level far devorced from the Premiership.

He was also described in the Spanish press last week as''having the grace of an elephant'' they were that impressed after his European exploits.

Great for us in League one but he''s yet to prove himself at this level if he ever gets the chance and I''d argue that Ruddy has done himself no harm this season and has looked as good as any average premiership keeper.

[james norwich 0]

[quote user="Harry"]james norwich if you really are a Norwich fan (which I doubt) we can do without fans like you, the players need support after a defeat like yesterday not idiots like you spouting garbage on message boards.[/quote]

[lake district canary 0]

I see this thred has apparently been bumped up by the original poster.Haven''t you got the message yet??

[Harry 0]

[quote user="james norwich"][quote user="Harry"]james norwich if you really are a Norwich fan (which I doubt) we can do without fans like you, the players need support after a defeat like yesterday not idiots like you spouting garbage on message boards.[/quote][/quote]Lost for words were you?

[Jacko 0]

There is no getting away from it. Ruddy has made mistakes this season. But generally I think his handling has been pretty neat and tidy. There have also been some fantastic performances like against Stoke and Liverpool.

You also have to realistic. Who is out there within our price range who would realistically be better? Forster''s time at Norwich has been exaggerated I think. There were some fantastic performances in there but he also had his moments. Like the duffed clearance against Leeds, spilling a shot against Exeter which went in and the 2 red cards in one season.

To get a "proven" player like a Robert Green or a Paul Robinson is going to cost serious money in wages if they would even consider coming. And are they significantly better to justify that outlay? I haven''t been overly convinced by either this season.

Ruddy was bought for £250k or something from Everton. To get a bloke who is so desperate to do well and has been part of a promotion team for that price is a steal. I don''t honestly see at the moment who you could sign within our range who would represent any improvement right now.

So get behind the lad. He is doing ok and if we are to pull it off this year, we need him.

[CJ 0]

Let us be honest , our whole defence is a bit of a nightmare at the moment and we are leaking goals mainly due to mistakes, which seem to be at least one per game.Ruddy''s mistake certainly made the Man City game a disaster and resulted in the thrashing. For me he made a mistake also against Blackburn and could have done better at Villa when he pulled out of a 50/50 challenge.The real trouble is there is no competition as Rudd has limited experience even at Championship level, so we all know Ruddy will still be there against Newcastle.If we go down it will not be due to the midfield or attack which in my opinion are doing just fine but a lack of experienced cover at the back.As has been pointed out elsewhere forwards like Morrison are sooner or later going to get fed up seeing hard one goals being wasted by simple mistakes at the back.