Increased capacity?

[morty 0]

I agree on most counts Herman, though when I go to football I take my two kids with me, and trying to get 3 seats together is nigh on impossible, unless you want to sit in the river end, which I don''t!

[Mello Yello 2,293]

I recently purchased a ticket for the Hull away game, for the tidy and acceptable sum of £23.00.....

 

Concession costs for the tickets at the KC Stadium are £13.00 and for the Juniors it is £11.00.....

 

Good value for an important Championship game?.....I think so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Herman 9,765]

[quote user="morty"]I agree on most counts Herman, though when I go to football I take my two kids with me, and trying to get 3 seats together is nigh on impossible, unless you want to sit in the river end, which I don''t![/quote]

The River End can''t be that bad,can it?You make a fair point though.[Y]

[morty 0]

Sorry Herman, can''t quote on this browser.

It would probably be the last place I''d buy tickets, and if I couldn''t get in anywhere else I would settle for it I suppose!

The club really is in a very good position with regards to keeping the audience like me captive. With so many season ticket holders in blocks of 2''s and 3''s it is extremely difficult to get any sizeable group together on a casual basis.

To get the season tickets I have now I had to sit in crapper seats initially and move during movers and shakers week.

[Harry 0]

[quote user="Herman "]

Tickets are available for ''casual'' supporters.I knew at the beginning of the season that i wouldn''t be able to go to many games so i invested in a Super Membership (quite cheap) and am pretty much guaranteed tickets to most games.Take Preston for example.On the monday before the game i thought sod it,i hadn''t been for ages,and got a ticket in the Barclay really easy.People need to stop living in the past,when you could turn up on the day,and realise a day at a game needs a little bit of pre-planning.

[/quote]Agreed Herman, for 12 years I was living and working in Blackpool and knew I wouldn''t be able to make it down every week so became a member, it helped me get tickets but it was hit and miss where I got tickets, when super memberships became available I snapped one up immediately as I knew it would give me a better choice of where I could sit.

When I was "Up North" I was with the Northern Canaries who many would class as "Casual Fans" but you will find an awful lot of them are Super Members.

I got made redundant the November before last and used the opportunity to move back to Norfolk and called in at the box office on the way to get a season ticket.

Bottom line is if you don''t want to pay for a season ticket pay to be a super member and have more chance of getting a decent seat.

[. 0]

[quote user="Herman "]

Tickets are available for ''casual'' supporters.I knew at the beginning of the season that i wouldn''t be able to go to many games so i invested in a Super Membership (quite cheap) and am pretty much guaranteed tickets to most games.Take Preston for example.On the monday before the game i thought sod it,i hadn''t been for ages,and got a ticket in the Barclay really easy.People need to stop living in the past,when you could turn up on the day,and realise a day at a game needs a little bit of pre-planning.

[/quote]It''s got bugger all to do with living in the past. Many grassroot supporters have been shut out by the club and the club has a historic ''duty'' to the community to make sure the young and elderly can get to see their team play. The former being the future of the club... the latter being the ones those responsible for the city still having a club at all.As for charity? I ran a business all of my life and know all about profit and loss. NCFC however is a part of the local community and ultimately belongs to that community. Like all over inflated ''bubbles'', they eventually burst and that is what is going on at Carrow Road... an unsustainable bubble. The capacity table shown above clearly shows NCFC have stitched up their support... and it will all end in tears sooner or later. Luvvies are fickle and will fade away... whereas dyed in the wool fans are born.We''re talking greed by the club and avarice by those who furtively covet their season ticket holder status. Basically as a grassroot supporter it stinks and so does the mentality of quantity of support above quality.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

City1st "We''re back to the ''holier than thou'' season ticket holders.."as opposed to the constant carping of the ''prolier than thou'' non season ticket holder

Er no!

People who for whatever reason show more commitment and buy season tickets will have priority over those who don''t and in these days of an all seater Carrow Road, high casual prices and near sell outs, being a casual these days can be difficult!

You make it out to be some ticket sectariaism!

Like I said last night, clubs aren''t allowed to sell the whole ground to season ticket holders, so there will always be casual seats available!

Its common sense and good business sense that if someone wants to buy a season ticket and there is still available seats for season tickets then selling the seat to someone willing to pay for a season ticket is better than turning them away in the hope that casuals might take the seat for some games!

Despit going to the vast majority of home games I never had a season ticket till the 90''s cause until then casual prices wern''t little if any different in price to season tickets and on the terraces you could pick and choose where you stood. Yes up until the advent of all seaters, for most games at Carrow Road, you could be walking around the City at 2.30pm, decide to go to the game and watch Norwich, so you''d walk down and pay your money at the gate.

Its not that easy nowadays but we rarely sell every available home ticket so casuals can still do the same most home games but the difference is that casual prices are very inflated so unless your a rich bugger, thats an expensive option. With the decently priced season tickets (that you can spread the cost of with interest free payments), it works out that you can miss 4-5+ games and it still works out better than a casual going to all but 4-5+ homes!

Despite casual prices being very inflated the largest attendances we''ve seen at Carrow Road have been the Leeds, Ips hit and QPR games that where the most expensive ones for casuals. Our average ATT is currently over 25,000 which proves that Mcnallys tough stance of ticket prices is correct and lets not forget the club has been losing money for years!

Certainly I wouldn''t be able to afford to go to Carrow Road like I did for 35+ years before the 1990''s by paying at the gate (nowadays ticket office!) every game and in these days of near sell outs I''d end up in a seat in an area of the ground I didn''t want to be in!

The biggest problem with Carrow Road being all seater and Norwich selling most seats every game is the last few remaining tickets are singles scattered all over the place, so a casual fan wanting to go along with their children is put of cause they won''t be able to sit with their children. This is another reason why people have been tempted into buying season tickets.

I remember a handful of games under Lol Morgan in the mid 60''s in the old 2nd Division, the same level as we''re at now where the crowds were under 8000 and for most of our top flight glory days from the mid 70''s to early 90''s, an 18,000 ATT was a bumper crowd. Where were the hoards of casuals then?

Our exceptional crowd levels certainly create dilemas particularly for those that don''t want to buy season tickets but I like being in regular 24/25,000 crowds much better than the 14/15,000 crowds we had for most of the 80''s and 90''s!

Mcnally said in his interview that he wants more seats available for casuals which then led to him mentioning that the club are considering increasing the capacity again this summer. So lets hope the proposed capacity increase happens so that more people can buy season tickets and casual tickets!

[grantroederdisaster 0]

It''s got bugger all to do with living in the past. Many grassroot supporters have been shut out by the club and the club has a historic ''duty'' to the community to make sure the young and elderly can get to see their team play. The former being the future of the club... the latter being the ones those responsible for the city still having a club at all.As for charity? I ran a business all of my life and know all about profit and loss. NCFC however is a part of the local community and ultimately belongs to that community. Like all over inflated ''bubbles'', they eventually burst and that is what is going on at Carrow Road... an unsustainable bubble. The capacity table shown above clearly shows NCFC have stitched up their support... and it will all end in tears sooner or later. Luvvies are fickle and will fade away... whereas dyed in the wool fans are born.We''re talking greed by the club and avarice by those who furtively covet their season ticket holder status. Basically as a grassroot supporter it stinks and so does the mentality of quantity of support above quality!

God here we go again!

Don''t you think its possible that some if not most of the season ticket holders are "dyed in the wool fans" and grassroots fans!

I''d certainly put my self in that category and I know many others who are the same!

This notion that our ground is full of "luvvies" and "happy clapper" fans has been discussed over and over on this forum.

I''ve been going since the 1950''s and in all that time theirs always been home supporters at Carrow Road who sit in there seats or in the past stand like cardboard cutouts making no noise and not looking that passionate about the experience. This then comes on to the "oh back in the day" it was so much better" bull. The fact is that the atmosphere isn''t always going to be great but it is for the big games. That has always been the case ever since I''ve been going!

I know some of the totally obsessed fans like Brad Gilbert who hasn''t missed a game since 1983 and Julie Trivet. To me they are the ultimate Norwich fans that few Norwich fans come close too because of the amount of games the''ve been to and the few they''ve missed, but watch them at a game and they look like their watching a film at the cinema!

I''m well aware that many of those in the corporate areas aren''t dyed in the wool fans but I bet that a large % of the fans in the outside seated areas are!

Your making out that the dyed in the wool supporters are the casuals who don''t want to commit to a season ticket!

Yeah their really dyed in the wool fans!

You also indicate that all season ticket holders are wealthy persons while the "real" fans are the ones priced out. What B oll ocks!

I bet a large % of season ticket holders aren''t what I''d call wealthy. On the contary I couldn''t afford to be a casual fan cause the price is expensive and my season ticket works out so much cheaper!

Indeed I''m not wealthy and being a pensioner I have to watch the notes but I sill find the money to go to games because guess what - I''m a dyed in the wool fan who wants to go!

I was part of quite a few 38,000+ crowds in the late 50''s and 60''s and I remember cursing the many in those crowds that were jumping on the bandwagon and who didn''t ever go to the bread and butter games!

And like I''ve pointed out and others have, where were the casuals when we had 10,000+ empty spaces most games from the mid 70''s to the early 00''s!

Yes I''m sure theirs Norwich who don''t go because they can''t afford it or are doing other things on matchdays. But unfortunately the club loses money every year mainly because of the overinflated players wages but that is where football in this Country is at. If the club decided to say enoughs enough and stopped paying the huge wages then the club would end up as a mid table League 1 team at best, the fans would be up in arms and their''d be plenty of spaces for casual fans cause our crowds would more than half!

The clubs not a charity and if we want the club to fulfill its potential and our dreams then we have to swallow the club being a hardnosed business!

Anyway the club has many community based initiatives where kids and special needs persons can come to games on the cheap!

The sort of fan I feel your going on about are the sort that arrives to their seat 5 minutes after kick off after being in the bar, moans at others for not making noise, then go to the bar at 40 minutes and come back 5 minutes after the 2nd half has kicked off!

Anyway the club wants to increase ground capacity so most that want to go that badly will be able to!

[Herman 9,765]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="Herman "]

Tickets are available for ''casual'' supporters.I knew at the beginning of the season that i wouldn''t be able to go to many games so i invested in a Super Membership (quite cheap) and am pretty much guaranteed tickets to most games.Take Preston for example.On the monday before the game i thought sod it,i hadn''t been for ages,and got a ticket in the Barclay really easy.People need to stop living in the past,when you could turn up on the day,and realise a day at a game needs a little bit of pre-planning.

[/quote]

It''s got bugger all to do with living in the past. Many grassroot supporters have been shut out by the club and the club has a historic ''duty'' to the community to make sure the young and elderly can get to see their team play. The former being the future of the club... the latter being the ones those responsible for the city still having a club at all.

As for charity? I ran a business all of my life and know all about profit and loss. NCFC however is a part of the local community and ultimately belongs to that community. Like all over inflated ''bubbles'', they eventually burst and that is what is going on at Carrow Road... an unsustainable bubble. The capacity table shown above clearly shows NCFC have stitched up their support... and it will all end in tears sooner or later. Luvvies are fickle and will fade away... whereas dyed in the wool fans are born.

We''re talking greed by the club and avarice by those who furtively covet their season ticket holder status. Basically as a grassroot supporter it stinks and so does the mentality of quantity of support above quality.


[/quote]

The club also has a duty to make sure that it is still viable for future generations,and the ticket prices are one of the ways of doing it.Yes they are expensive,but if it means we have a decent team and more stable finances,then it is a small price to pay (pardon the pun).

 

BTW,great post grantroederdisaster[Y]

[. 0]

[quote user="Herman "][quote user="Paul Cluckbert "][quote user="Herman "]

Tickets are available for ''casual'' supporters.I knew at the beginning of the season that i wouldn''t be able to go to many games so i invested in a Super Membership (quite cheap) and am pretty much guaranteed tickets to most games.Take Preston for example.On the monday before the game i thought sod it,i hadn''t been for ages,and got a ticket in the Barclay really easy.People need to stop living in the past,when you could turn up on the day,and realise a day at a game needs a little bit of pre-planning.

[/quote]It''s got bugger all to do with living in the past. Many grassroot supporters have been shut out by the club and the club has a historic ''duty'' to the community to make sure the young and elderly can get to see their team play. The former being the future of the club... the latter being the ones those responsible for the city still having a club at all.As for charity? I ran a business all of my life and know all about profit and loss. NCFC however is a part of the local community and ultimately belongs to that community. Like all over inflated ''bubbles'', they eventually burst and that is what is going on at Carrow Road... an unsustainable bubble. The capacity table shown above clearly shows NCFC have stitched up their support... and it will all end in tears sooner or later. Luvvies are fickle and will fade away... whereas dyed in the wool fans are born.We''re talking greed by the club and avarice by those who furtively covet their season ticket holder status. Basically as a grassroot supporter it stinks and so does the mentality of quantity of support above quality.

[/quote]

The club also has a duty to make sure that it is still viable for future generations,and the ticket prices are one of the ways of doing it.Yes they are expensive,but if it means we have a decent team and more stable finances,then it is a small price to pay (pardon the pun).

 

BTW,great post grantroederdisaster[Y]

[/quote]We may have a ''good team'' right now (pending promotion)... but what about the many previous seasons?If Paul Lambert walks for whatever reason, lightning will not strike twice and we could easily end up as just another Sheffield Wednesday or Charlton. Crowds fall as the results falter and after a few seasons the club would see a dramatically reduced demand. Then who will they want to see back at Carrow Road? It will be a case of two fingers as the core local support will have faded away.There is a classic ''bubble'' scenario at Carrow Road right now and if NCFC are not very careful it will be the road to oblivion.

[Iwan! 0]

I understand the concerns about Carrow Road being a closed shop to non season ticket holders.  However, how many games have we sold out this season - 2? Ipswich and Leeds? Possibly got very close on a couple of others.  Which leaves around 14 home games this season that any casual fan could have attended. 

[nutty nigel 7,535]

I think you mis-understand the drivel Iwan!

 

The tickets left are for the last areas to sell out. I don''t think the argument is whether casual supporters can go. It seems the drivel is that they should be able to go, to the most popular games, in the best seats, for next to nothing, at the expense of season ticket holders. And these "drivel peddlers" claim to run businesses. The mind boggles[:S]

 

 

[. 0]

The casual fan no longer exists in the true sense of the word Iwan... thanks to the grasping club lock out policy.They need to get the disenfranchised grassroot fan interested again and an increased capacity would be an ideal opportunity. Then you would see more and more supporters simply  ''turn up'' rather than bother to ''book up''.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Great post by grantroederdisaster, which clearly and unquestionably puts into perspective the absolute drivel from Cluck. The only bubble that has burst, Cluck, is the negativity bubble you so clearly have your string attached to.

[Bill 1,788]

How would taht ''increased capacity'' be funded Mr Cluckwit ?

By borrowing from the bank perhaps ? A bank who might require proof of income most likely ? Proof of regular, guaranteed income I would suggest.

Now where might that come from ? Season ticket sales ?

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]

The casual fan no longer exists in the true sense of the word Iwan... thanks to the grasping club lock out policy.

They need to get the disenfranchised grassroot fan interested again and an increased capacity would be an ideal opportunity. Then you would see more and more supporters simply  ''turn up'' rather than bother to ''book up''.


[/quote]

A serious question Mr.Cluckbert,can you please define and explain what a "disenfranchised grassroot" fan is exactly as far as Norwich City is concerned?

 

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]

The casual fan no longer exists in the true sense of the word Iwan... thanks to the grasping club lock out policy.

They need to get the disenfranchised grassroot fan interested again and an increased capacity would be an ideal opportunity. Then you would see more and more supporters simply  ''turn up'' rather than bother to ''book up''.


[/quote]

 

All this from the woman who claimed she had a whole bank of season tickets which she "threw in" when the club started to slide towards the Third Division.

 

Maybe that''s the problem. Perhaps some loyal fans now have those seats and she''s left with the scraps. Seems fair enough to me.

 

 

 

 

[Herman 9,765]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]

The casual fan no longer exists in the true sense of the word Iwan... thanks to the grasping club lock out policy.

They need to get the disenfranchised grassroot fan interested again and an increased capacity would be an ideal opportunity. Then you would see more and more supporters simply  ''turn up'' rather than bother to ''book up''.


[/quote]

A serious question Mr.Cluckbert,can you please define and explain what a "disenfranchised grassroot" fan is exactly as far as Norwich City is concerned?

 

[/quote]

Can i second that question please.Who an where are these people?

[. 0]

Looks like the intellectual minnows are in the swim...I''ll wait until a thinker not a parrot comes along........

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Looks like the intellectual minnows are in the swim...

I''ll wait until a thinker not a parrot comes along........
[/quote]

I see. Were you the man behind the counter in the Monty Python sketch?

[pete_norw 0]

Well I have been bringing a couple of lads along with me  and they are just members, they have seen every home match, and not had the same seat more than twice, so yes it is possible to get tickets even on general sale, so can we move away from this argument  

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Looks like the intellectual minnows are in the swim...

I''ll wait until a thinker not a parrot comes along........
[/quote]

I see. Were you the man behind the counter in the Monty Python sketch?

[/quote]

No, she was this one Yankee

 

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Looks like the intellectual minnows are in the swim...

I''ll wait until a thinker not a parrot comes along........
[/quote]

I see. Were you the man behind the counter in the Monty Python sketch?

[/quote]

No, she was this one Yankee

 

[/quote]

Very good Nigel. I wonder how Cluck will "field" that one?

[Lambert is King 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]

The casual fan no longer exists in the true sense of the word Iwan... thanks to the grasping club lock out policy.

They need to get the disenfranchised grassroot fan interested again and an increased capacity would be an ideal opportunity. Then you would see more and more supporters simply  ''turn up'' rather than bother to ''book up''.


[/quote]

Yep lets go back to gaining another £23m worth of debt. Why were all these disengaged fans there at the end of last season, against Ipswich and Leeds and should we look like going up in second all be back singing their going up up up song. Why do you want to pay the cost of several million pound to build a stand and then reduce prices taking less money than we take with our current capacity ? Have you ever heard of earning more than you spend ???

[Felixfan 53]

I would like tto hear from one of Cluck''s "disenfranchised grassroot fans" (if any exist) so that we can have a serious debate.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Paul Cluckbert "]Looks like the intellectual minnows are in the swim...

I''ll wait until a thinker not a parrot comes along........

 

[/quote]

 

Or in other words, you don''t know where they are.

[. 0]

No... just more self-righteous ''I''m alright Jack'' types....I''ll try again in the morning.

[morty 0]

Lol Cluck, you do make me chuckle.

I fancy having Champagne for breakfast tomorrow, but it goes way over my breakfast budget, do you think you could pay for it for me please? Seeing as you have a social(ist) responsability to supporting those less fortunate than you?

[:)]

[grantroederdisaster 0]

Considering over the last 6 years we''ve averaged the biggest crowds the club has seen since the early 1970''s and the fact we''ve only completely sold out the home ends on 2 occasions this seasons, both of which were the most expensive games for casuals, = Clucks arguements are b ollocks!

Although nothings perfect and the club has a few elements that could be better, overall since the arrival of Mcnally and Lambert things have been pretty good for this club any Norwich fan moaning should really get a reality check!

Last weeks announcement by Mcnally that the club are considering more capacity increases at Carrow Road maybe indicates that the club has had information from Cluck that 1000''s of grassroots, "real" fans who don''t currently go to games are waiting in the wings?

Cluck also mentions "when the bubble bursts" - well the club will still be OK cause the 1000'' of real fans not currently going will replace the current regulars who aren''t as passionate yet still attend home matches!

The "real" grassroots fans Cluck goes on about are mostly still at Carrow Road, albeit with many corporate supporters!

I''ve got great memories of paying at the gate and standing on the old terraces, - even recall standing in the paddock that used to be in front of the old main stand but those days are gone and in this day and age of where football clubs have to be run as businesses, having 21,000 people buying sason tickets is better than restricting thousands of season tickets in the hope of non existant less commited, casuals buying tickets every game!

Can we please draw a line under Clucks bull and get back to the main topic of this thread which is the exciting posibility of our great stadium being made bigger!

[BlyBlyBabes 0]

[quote user="morty"]

Lol Cluck, you do make me chuckle.

I fancy having Champagne for breakfast tomorrow, but it goes way over my breakfast budget, do you think you could pay for it for me please? Seeing as you have a social(ist) responsability to supporting those less fortunate than you?

[:)]

[/quote]

 

I suggest you stick with what you do.

 

To parallel ''wanting Champagne with breakfast'' with ''a longing to watch one''s team  in the odd, now unaffordable match (of the working mans sport) at Carrow Road'' is intellectual stupidity worthy only of a twerp.

 

Dear oh dear oh dear.

 

OTBC