Re: Been reading so much rubbish, and I just HAD to post!

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote user="Steve from Oz"]And whats missing from all the above - the PL factor - remember the mess we were in last year with some players on the outer until PL came in - and some of those outer players were brought back in and their performance increased.  Who''s to know how good or bad they really are - its a mental thing of each individual, something PL seems to be able to sort out and get them to gel.  It will be interesting to hear reports from the training camp in Germany.  PL took Col who away before the start of last season and we all shudder at what happened then.  Any hopes of 7-1 for us this opening match????????[/quote]Agreed, he seems like he knows how to create a team, and that bodes well. The only concern is that managers can go from hero to zero in no time (See N Worthington), I hope hes one of the very few that dont!

[singing canary 0]

most of the world class footballers never make management .

[TheGoogler 324]

Agreed with the point of view that we should judge a player by their performances in yellow and green rather than by who has been interested in them. And that goes for current players as well as new. I don''t subscribe to the view that just because Martin isn''t playing for Man Utd or Tottenham''s reserves he isn''t a good player.

[Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno 0]

Yoo! Have decided to make a new thread, after all the PMs i recieved!

Well, four pages of replies to go through, so I can''t reply to you all naturally.

But, firstly may I say, that when I made the initial post.. I actually was half cut lol, so hence the sloppy writing and often confusing text.

Secondly, I know alot of you disagree with me, and that''s fine. That''s the beatuy of the nature of football banter, but to those who have agreed, i''m glad some think alike.

Third, my "main" point which I kept bringing up about if a player is "that good" they would be playing at a higher level was a bit unclear, let me rty to explain what I was exactly thinking.

Firstly with Andrew Surman, football is a business, as well as a sport. Therefor, Wolves, especially as a premiership team, with have the staff in place to judge players in ways the likes of US, could never. They will judge their current ability and potential ability, and if they believe a YOUNG player is going to prosper and become better to the point where he will be valuable to the team, or be able to sell on for PROFIT, they would keep it at the club or loan him out to continue his growth as a player for these reasons.

As wolves have sold him to us, after ONE YEAR. For 0 profit, clearly says to me. That the people they have at the club, who are EMPLOYED TO DO THE JOB OF EVALUATING PLAYERS, are saying "Andrew Surman does not have the ability to progress enough as a premiership player or progress enough to be sold for profit"

I''m not saying he''s not going to be a good player for us, i''m not saying that at all. And I hope to god he becomes the next Cesc Fabregas in terms of his playmaking qualities. I''m just saying, alot of people on this message board are getting FAR FAR to carried away with him.

SIM JACKSON

Yes QPR have money, yes Southhampton are punching above their weight in league one.. but I also forgot to mention, he was also heavily linked with the media to milwall and another lower champ team (that im pulling my hair out trying to remember), now before I get death threats to the eyeballs. let me say; I appreciate QPR have money etc etc, but QUALITY PLAYERS WILL NOT GO TO THEM AS THEY ARE NOT YET, YEEEEEET, A BIG SIDE in the ways boro, pompy and burnley are. So they have to "settle" for lesser players!

Basically, what I am trying to say is, and from what I can see, is an unquestionable point.. is that the players we have signed are middle of the league players, we have not fought of stiff competition from better clubs for them.. the likes of Kasper Schimecial, Ross Wallace, Chris Iwelumo, Dean Marney, Tom Heaton, Gary Mcsheffery, Nobby Solano, Lloyd Sam, Billy Paynter, Nicky Bailey. ARE players who have gone to TOP clubs, because they are TOP OF THE LEAGUE ESQUE PLAYERS!

Compared to OUR signings, these are alot higher calibure.

Basically, what I''m trying to say or do, is not put our club down, or our players.. i''m just trying to show MY reasons why we should be not getting OVER optimistic thinking we are going to win the league!!

[morty 0]

Why do people have so much trouble with the word "calibre"?

[Legend Iwan 30]

I presume from your list of players that Leeds are a top team in the champ next season.

[King Klose 0]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]Yoo! Have decided to make a new thread, after all the PMs i recieved! Well, four pages of replies to go through, so I can''t reply to you all naturally. But, firstly may I say, that when I made the initial post.. I actually was half cut lol, so hence the sloppy writing and often confusing text. Secondly, I know alot of you disagree with me, and that''s fine. That''s the beatuy of the nature of football banter, but to those who have agreed, i''m glad some think alike. Third, my "main" point which I kept bringing up about if a player is "that good" they would be playing at a higher level was a bit unclear, let me rty to explain what I was exactly thinking. Firstly with Andrew Surman, football is a business, as well as a sport. Therefor, Wolves, especially as a premiership team, with have the staff in place to judge players in ways the likes of US, could never. They will judge their current ability and potential ability, and if they believe a YOUNG player is going to prosper and become better to the point where he will be valuable to the team, or be able to sell on for PROFIT, they would keep it at the club or loan him out to continue his growth as a player for these reasons. As wolves have sold him to us, after ONE YEAR. For 0 profit, clearly says to me. That the people they have at the club, who are EMPLOYED TO DO THE JOB OF EVALUATING PLAYERS, are saying "Andrew Surman does not have the ability to progress enough as a premiership player or progress enough to be sold for profit" I''m not saying he''s not going to be a good player for us, i''m not saying that at all. And I hope to god he becomes the next Cesc Fabregas in terms of his playmaking qualities. I''m just saying, alot of people on this message board are getting FAR FAR to carried away with him. SIM JACKSON Yes QPR have money, yes Southhampton are punching above their weight in league one.. but I also forgot to mention, he was also heavily linked with the media to milwall and another lower champ team (that im pulling my hair out trying to remember), now before I get death threats to the eyeballs. let me say; I appreciate QPR have money etc etc, but QUALITY PLAYERS WILL NOT GO TO THEM AS THEY ARE NOT YET, YEEEEEET, A BIG SIDE in the ways boro, pompy and burnley are. So they have to "settle" for lesser players! Basically, what I am trying to say is, and from what I can see, is an unquestionable point.. is that the players we have signed are middle of the league players, we have not fought of stiff competition from better clubs for them.. the likes of Kasper Schimecial, Ross Wallace, Chris Iwelumo, Dean Marney, Tom Heaton, Gary Mcsheffery, Nobby Solano, Lloyd Sam, Billy Paynter, Nicky Bailey. ARE players who have gone to TOP clubs, because they are TOP OF THE LEAGUE ESQUE PLAYERS! Compared to OUR signings, these are alot higher calibure. Basically, what I''m trying to say or do, is not put our club down, or our players.. i''m just trying to show MY reasons why we should be not getting OVER optimistic thinking we are going to win the league!![/quote]

Tw*t

[Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno 0]

''ll let you all get angry again, wade through all the crap and reply to the people who put half a thought into their reply :)

otherwise, feel free to suck my piece.

[King Klose 0]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]''ll let you all get angry again, wade through all the crap and reply to the people who put half a thought into their reply :) otherwise, feel free to suck my piece.[/quote]

Ok, Gary McSheffrey, how is he a ''TOP'' Championship player, when last season he couldn''t get in a League 1 team???

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]Yoo! Have decided to make a new thread, after all the PMs i recieved![/quote]I really don''t get this. I''ve got in plenty of spats on here but I''ve never seen the need to PM anybody over it nor have I received any PMs. Do people really do this?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]''ll let you all get angry again, wade through all the crap and reply to the people who put half a thought into their reply :)

otherwise, feel free to suck my piece.[/quote]You appear to be the one getting your knickers twisty over this, to be honest.You know nowt mate, until you see the players play for our team then everything you consider to be the most important opinion in the universe, is actually speculation and guesswork.You come across as the type that moans and grumbles at every mis-placed pass, I''m guessing City stand?

[Graham Humphrey 13]

Why this couldn''t have been a reply to your other thread is a bit of a mystery (unless you like the attention of course).

[morty 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Why this couldn''t have been a reply to your other thread is a bit of a mystery (unless you like the attention of course).[/quote]Nail --------> Head.

[Graham Humphrey 13]

So not, in fact, a mystery at all then [:)]

[morty 0]

I bet no one actually PM''d lol.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]I actually was half cut...........[/quote]You''re one of Arthurs nephews and I claim my £5.

[John 0]

Pete, by any chance could you merge this thread with the orignial one?

[King Klose 0]

[quote user="4 More Bacon Rolls"]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]''ll let you all get angry again, wade through all the crap and reply to the people who put half a thought into their reply :) otherwise, feel free to suck my piece.[/quote]

Ok, Gary McSheffrey, how is he a ''TOP'' Championship player, when last season he couldn''t get in a League 1 team???

[/quote]

Well.....???

[Rodger 0]

ZZzzzzzz

[chicken 0]

Not entirely sure what you mean by ''big'' side.

I say that because you mention Middlesborough and Portsmouth as being ''big'' clubs.

Southampton actually has had more success and is arguably bigger than both Portsmouth AND Middlesborough. We are at least on a par with both these teams who have had successful spells reletively recently.

As for QPR - they have been big in their time, they may not be huge right now but they are in London and that in itself is quite an attraction to players.

Again it seems really pointless you posting and criticising other peoples opinions if you admit that yours is gospel truth.

And as for Wolves having a better ''set up'' thats not particurily true - and as for having people better qualified to ''judge'' a player, thats pretty pants as well.

All that is different is that they look at players that are capable of premiership football NOW not in two or three years time when they are 23. We are not looking for a mid-table premiership player, we are looking for a top half of the table championship player.

Ontop of that Wolves opperate on a reletively tight budget as far as premiership teams go and perhaps they needed to free some money up and trim their squad a bit. If he was that rubbish they wouldn''t have even demanded a fee for him.

All you are really doing is judging a player on the reasons they left clubs and the interest in them. Simply not a great basis to determine how good a player is. Like I said in my well reasoned resonse in your ''other'' thread. There are so many more factors involved in football and you seem to just naively forget to mention them. 

[John 0]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"] Kasper Schimecial, Ross Wallace, Chris Iwelumo, Dean Marney, Tom Heaton, Gary Mcsheffery, Nobby Solano, Lloyd Sam, Billy Paynter, Nicky Bailey. [/quote]Struggling to gather how the likes of Nicky Bailey (established in League One, mildly proven above it), Billy Paynter (only proven in League One), Gary Mcsheffery (utterly dreadful in League One last season), Solano (old, and any employer is feeding of the scraps of a career that was scarcely a ''has been''), Lloyd Sam (shined in very brief spells at League One level) are better, or anywhere near as good as what we have bought, atleast on face value. Much of the criticisms you''ve directed at our own purchases could be focused tenfold on the player''s you''ve mentioned, as much as they could all be successes.As for Chris Iwelumo, he is a decent player, but his exploits in League One weren''t by any means as good as Holt''s last season. Iwelumo''s success since is not one anyone could say for definite Grant can''t atleast replicate.Tom Heaton seemed decent in League One from what i can remember from last year. He''s older than Ruddy though, and can''t boast any remote level of the kind of praise or accolades John can already. Same applies to Kasper Schimecial (minus the age thing, in which Ruddy is only 2 months younger).As for Wallace, he''s a proven player at Championship level signed on the back end of a Premier League budget. I''m not complaining, as signing him would signal the kind of transfer policy that would bankrupt us, and would of without question bankrupted Blackpool if it was one they adopted prior to their promotion to the Premier League. Marney much the same.It''s no more than your opinion on these players that you find your judgement, not facts. And you''ll find the vast majority of people, be they Norwich fan or not, will disagree.Irritational cynicism or binner, and i''d gander it''s the latter given your determination to denounce every aspect of Norwich in it''s current state.

[John 0]

Oh, and kudos for the merge Pete. [Y]

[Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno 0]

No counter arguements, no replies?

So.. i''m 100% right then, unless some one proves or argues otherwise?

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]No counter arguements, no replies? So.. i''m 100% right then, unless some one proves or argues otherwise?[/quote]

[John 0]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]No counter arguements, no replies?

So.. i''m 100% right then, unless some one proves or argues otherwise?[/quote]Like many including myself have said, your arguments (concerning facts) are purely insubstantial, and are designed in such a way so as to no more than create a ruckus.You''re the troll that we''ve fooled ourselves into feeding unfortunately, though we can sit safe in the knowledge that anything you do decide to churn out is utter cr*p.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno"]So.. i''m 100% right then........[/quote]Who are we to argue with that?.....

[Barclaybred 0]

[quote user="morty"]I bet no one actually PM''d lol.
[/quote]

I thought that! Why would anyone pm him their replies and not put it on here to prove he is wrong?

Dont think he has got a season ticket morty..Unless he can verify that..Im sure someone who posts on here will back him up if he gives the right seating area...I will if he is i  my block

He states no one has any answers so he must be 100% right..I gave answers as did countless others....so as the majority we must be 100% !

By way,there was a poster on the "other" board who used to post like this..cany remember his name,but very similar style..Egotistical and will not be swayed..would moan about anything from players to the price of tea! ..

[TheGoogler 324]

I think it''s hard to argue with a great deal of your points, EWTAMP. I do wish to take issue with one or two bits, though.

1) I think the reason for the hype around Surman is not the fact that Wolves have deemed him not good enough, but rather that he was a solid player in a solid Southampton team at this level. I think assessing him in any way based on his time at Wolves and only his time at Wolves is very narrow minded. I am excited about him because I''ve seen him play for the Saints and play very well. I think you also forget that players who don''t perform for one club can prove them wrong and perform at another. Marlon King and his transfer from Forest to Watford is a good example.

2) You seem to be assessing Simeon Jackson based on the quality of the teams he''s linked with. I think that''s totally wrong. Players can join a club with no one chasing him and be a total success. Danny Graham at Watford is another example. Joined from Carlisle (or was it Hartlepool?) and scored a lot of goals last season.

In short, my point is football''s a funny game. No one can really predict what''ll happen and when. I think judging any player on anything other than their performances in the yellow and green is futile.

[Elliot Ward takes a MEAN peno 0]

Ive never seen so much anger from people, no one has still challenged my point that these players are NOT top of the league material, and therefor we will not be challenging. End of, we will be lucky to come 10th.

[Davo 0]

Why is Billy Paynter such a good signing when his record is pretty poor apart from this season and he was in a better team than Jackson?

Why is McSheffrey such a good signing when he was a flop at Leeds in the 3rd Division?

Tom Heaton is unproved at this level unless you class 21 games as proven?

Kasper Schmeical has only played 23 games in the Championship and 8 games in 6 years for Man City, once again hardly a proven quality player at this level?

Nicky Bailey and Lloyd Sam were both relegated with Charlton so they''re hardly superstars!

Nobby Solano is past it, still good but has lost his legs.

To sum up I would prefer our signings compared to the ones you''ve mentioned. I would say until a few games have been played this season it''s impossible to compare, Ruddy, Heaton and Schmeical to say which is better. Surman is younger than Bailey so has potential where as bailey is said to have hit is peak age.

All in all I would say you know nothign and are just a binner/Leeds scum looking for attention by creating a new thread.

Davo