The Fight Against Racism in Football

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]As stupid arguments go this is up there.

Also kind of surprised Lee Bowyer hasn''t been mentioned yet..... oh, it just has.
[/quote]

Glad you mentioned this ... because if you ask anyone which major club has been tarnished with racism over the last twenty years or so (players and fans) one team stands out head and shoulders above the rest .... and it''s not us. Can''t believe the cheek of the bloke - hahah [:D]

 

 

[First Jedi 0]

"You''re partly to blame for taking it as an insult. People often say things to watch people squirm. You''re more homophobic than the people chanting IMO."

Er... I think you totally missed my point... and by saying "I''m quite sensitive to homophobia and anti-gay attitudes" doesn''t mean I ever thought, cried or worried I was gay - don''t know how you jumped to that conclusion? The "after all, living in Brighton - I *must* be gay!" was a joke in itself, in that I hear it all the time outside of Brighton, but as you say couldn''t give a shiny sh*t well - maybe not a shiny sh*t, but a shit none the less... - I usually happy to play up to it, in fact (not that this confuses me in anyway or makes me cry about it)... "You''re more homophobic than the people chanting IMO." - and again, my whole point was that I don''t think the "pink shirt" chants are homophobic... it''s more anti-pink shirt than anti-gay IMHO.

Dunno how I managed to confuse you so much!?!

Maybe it''s because I''m gay and... OH NO! *starts crying* :)

[William Darby 0]

I wasn''t directly aiming it at you Jedi soz if it came across like that.  I was using Brighton as an example because it''s probably rather common for them to get ''clever'' chants.  etc etc. 

[First Jedi 0]

"I wasn''t directly aiming it at you Jedi soz if it came across like that. I was using Brighton as an example because it''s probably rather common for them to get ''clever'' chants. etc etc. "

Oh right... sorry - it did seem that everything you said was directed at me, but totally dissociated with anything I''d said - which totally confused the hell out of me! :)

[nutty nigel 7,535]

It will take many more years before racism leaves general society in this country. Many of us make racist comments innocently when doing our best not to.

About 30 years ago a good friend of mine told me about something that happened to him and this made me look at racism differently. He had gone to pick his son up from a local junior school. His son had a new friend called Billy who he had been talking about constantly. So when my friend collected his son that day he asked him which of the other boys was Billy. His son pointed to a child in the playground and said "that''s him over there in the red jumper".

Now Billy was the only coloured boy in the playground, in fact he was probably the only coloured boy in the school. But my friends son differentiated him by the colour of his clothes rather than his skin. This was the innocence of a child showing us how we should behave. I would have pointed to Billy and said he was "the coloured boy over there". I would have chosen my words carefully quite satisfied that by using the phrase "coloured boy" I wasn''t being racist.

Makes you think though.

 

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="Bobert"]I don''t think Racism is an issue at Norwich as it is a "white" city which is one of the reasons that people of other ethnic groups do not wish to live here. My source for this is a former Cannon of the Anglican church.

What I do dislike intensly is the chants against "gays" with the Barclay coming up with " Who''s the wan*er, in the pink" at visiting fans. Sex choice definately has no place in football in my opinion.[/quote]

So what you''re effectively saying there is that ethnics choose not to live in predominantly white areas in this country because they don''t want to integrate - an issue of racism on their behalf then [:P]

[First Jedi 0]

"I would have pointed to Billy and said he was "the coloured boy over there". I would have chosen my words carefully quite satisfied that by using the phrase "coloured boy" I wasn''t being racist."

And you''d have been right - pointing out a simple fact, without prejudice, isn''t racist. Intention is everything...

[batesout MOT 0]

So, back to the topic: is Norwich''s lack of black players due to

a) A concerted effort by the board, or

b) Black players'' unwillingness to join the club/move to the area due to the locals'' attitude.

[morty 0]

[quote user="batesout MOT"]So, back to the topic: is Norwich''s lack of black players due to

a) A concerted effort by the board, or

b) Black players'' unwillingness to join the club/move to the area due to the locals'' attitude.[/quote]You''re really not very good at this, are you?[:)]

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote user="batesout MOT"]So, back to the topic: is Norwich''s lack of black players due to

a) A concerted effort by the board, or

b) Black players'' unwillingness to join the club/move to the area due to the locals'' attitude.[/quote]Wheres that image of the face palm when you need it..

[First Jedi 0]

"So, back to the topic: is Norwich''s lack of black players due to "

c) a total inability to stare facts in the face, that would otherwise blow a stupid Leeds fans wind up/argument out of the water.

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="batesout MOT"]So, back to the topic: is Norwich''s lack of black players due to

a) A concerted effort by the board, or

b) Black players'' unwillingness to join the club/move to the area due to the locals'' attitude.[/quote]

Is your utter stupidity due to

a) Your parent''s genetic shortcomings or

b) You having a personality disorder

[hogesar 9,673]

How many black people does it take to...

Just kidding [:D]

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="First Jedi"]"I would have pointed to Billy and said he was "the coloured boy over there". I would have chosen my words carefully quite satisfied that by using the phrase "coloured boy" I wasn''t being racist." And you''d have been right - pointing out a simple fact, without prejudice, isn''t racist. Intention is everything...[/quote]

Morally your probably right Jedi. But many people make racist comments without intending to be racist. They would be mortified if they were taken to task over it.

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="First Jedi"]"I would have pointed to Billy and said he was "the coloured boy over there". I would have chosen my words carefully quite satisfied that by using the phrase "coloured boy" I wasn''t being racist." And you''d have been right - pointing out a simple fact, without prejudice, isn''t racist. Intention is everything...[/quote]

Morally your probably right Jedi. But many people make racist comments without intending to be racist. They would be mortified if they were taken to task over it.

 

[/quote]I have been in a similar situation with one of my kids when he was younger. He referred to someone we were discussing as "That man over there with the brown face"Not racist, but merely factual.But I''m sure someone could view it as racist somehow, if they were really, really determined to.

[batesout MOT 0]

Is it possible to make a racist comment without intention?

Are certain words inherrantly racist, regardless of circumstance?

[hogesar 9,673]

Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)

[nutty nigel 7,535]

They''re good points made by Jedi, Hogsear and Morty. But I think we are going through a period of change through the generations.

When I was a kid "eeny meeny miny mo" was innocent really and all the kids said it. We didn''t mean any harm. Just like when the Barclay chanted "zigger zigger" to Geofrey Watling us kids weren''t aware of the racist undertones. We just saw it as an insult to the chairman and he deserved it because he had sold all our favourite players!

Sometime in the future innocent remarks will become innocent again and racism will only be racism if there''s intent.

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)[/quote]People need to get a grip of themselves to be honest.They feel the need to be somehow morally outraged on someone else''s behalf, and are scared to hold their owns views and somehow be branded not fit to be part of modern, politically correct society.If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="batesout MOT"]So, back to the topic: is Norwich''s lack of black players due to

a) A concerted effort by the board, or

b) Black players'' unwillingness to join the club/move to the area due to the locals'' attitude.[/quote]Why don''t you give your opinion on things?  The number of professionals from an Asian background is tiny in the extreme.  WTF can we do or anybody else do?  Apart from A) hold a gun to their heads and make them play more or B) sign what small number there is even though they''re sh*t just so some organisation can tick a box and say well done for being inclusive.

IT DOESN''T MATTER WHAT COLOUR THEY ARE IF THEY''RE GOOD THEY''RE GOOD. IF THEY''RE CRAP THEY''RE CRAP

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="batesout MOT"]So, back to the topic: is Norwich''s lack of black players due to a) A concerted effort by the board, or b) Black players'' unwillingness to join the club/move to the area due to the locals'' attitude.[/quote]

Why don''t you give your opinion on things? 
The number of professionals from an Asian background is tiny in the extreme.  WTF can we do or anybody else do?  Apart from A) hold a gun to their heads and make them play more or B) sign what small number there is even though they''re sh*t just so some organisation can tick a box and say well done for being inclusive.


IT DOESN''T MATTER WHAT COLOUR THEY ARE IF THEY''RE GOOD THEY''RE GOOD. IF THEY''RE CRAP THEY''RE CRAP
[/quote]

Indeed. But I must admit I''m intrigued by Leeds Utd''s apparent racist views regarding full backs. There have had plenty to choose from over the years. In fact Viv Anderson was a full back and also the first black player to represent England. I can name Otsemebor, Colin, MLJ and Kenton off the top of my head as full backs at our club!

 

[macdougalls perm 0]

[quote user="batesout MOT"]So, back to the topic: is Norwich''s lack of black players due to a) A concerted effort by the board, or b) Black players'' unwillingness to join the club/move to the area due to the locals'' attitude.[/quote]

Can you read?

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="hogesar"]Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)[/quote]If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business.

[/quote]

So if you''ve got a black friend and someone racially abuses them, you really shouldn''t get involved or even offended if you''re white? hmmmm. How about if you''re German and your friends are jewish and you see their house being burnt down?

[Jerzy Krukowski 5]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="hogesar"]Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)[/quote]If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business.

[/quote]

So if you''ve got a black friend and someone racially abuses them, you really shouldn''t get involved or even offended if you''re white? hmmmm. How about if you''re German and your friends are jewish and you see their house being burnt down?

[norfolkchance1 0]

I suggest someone starts a similar thread on Waccoe, with no point or reason and see what the response is. At least the response on here is something resembling an intellectual discussion. I''m sure BOMOT couldn''t find anything like that on there though.

This might answer the reason why he''s brought this thread up here. Even so a bloody bizarre thread to bring up now.

[morty 0]

[quote user="SPat"][quote user="morty"][quote user="hogesar"]Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)[/quote]If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business.

[/quote]

So if you''ve got a black friend and someone racially abuses them, you really shouldn''t get involved or even offended if you''re white? hmmmm. How about if you''re German and your friends are jewish and you see their house being burnt down?[/quote]Ah, point twist, nice one. Of course you should care about your friends, thats a given.My point is about the have a go heroes that see, say, someone on a message board, who they don''t know from adam, but feel the need to be offended on their behalf.[:)]

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="SPat"][quote user="morty"][quote user="hogesar"]Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)[/quote]If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business.

[/quote]

So if you''ve got a black friend and someone racially abuses them, you really shouldn''t get involved or even offended if you''re white? hmmmm. How about if you''re German and your friends are jewish and you see their house being burnt down?[/quote]Is that assuming wormholes have been discovered and we''re living in Nazi Germany?

[Jim Smith 2,317]

What do you call a black man flying a plane?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The pilot you racist!

[GenerationA47 752]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="SPat"]

So if you''ve got a black friend and someone racially abuses them, you really shouldn''t get involved or even offended if you''re white? hmmmm. How about if you''re German and your friends are jewish and you see their house being burnt down?[/quote]

Ah, point twist, nice one. Of course you should care about your friends, thats a given.

My point is about the have a go heroes that see, say, someone on a message board, who they don''t know from adam, but feel the need to be offended on their behalf.

[:)]
[/quote]

Morty son, I put it to you thus: isn''t the quality of a society measured by the number of have-a-go-heroes who intervene when they see something wrong going on, even if - maybe especially if - they have no personal stake in the interaction, e.g. they aren''t being victimised themselves, nor are they friends of the victim or from the victim''s community... like a shop customer stopping a robber. They don''t gain from the action - they actually risk being attacked by the robber''s accomplices - but cumulatively, society does gain.

So, in the case of a message board or a conversation, a subtle casual comment such as referring to one of our players as "Blacknamee" can either be left as it is in all its glory, as intended to revive or maintain the social marginalisation of a given minority group through humour, or it can be challenged by someone of a more reflective persuasion even if everyone in earshot/ reading is a whitey. <- note hilarious ironically auto-racist ending

[morty 0]

[quote user="GenerationA47"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="SPat"]

So if you''ve got a black friend and someone racially abuses them, you really shouldn''t get involved or even offended if you''re white? hmmmm. How about if you''re German and your friends are jewish and you see their house being burnt down?[/quote]Ah, point twist, nice one. Of course you should care about your friends, thats a given.My point is about the have a go heroes that see, say, someone on a message board, who they don''t know from adam, but feel the need to be offended on their behalf.[:)][/quote]

Morty son, I put it to you thus: isn''t the quality of a society measured by the number of have-a-go-heroes who intervene when they see something wrong going on, even if - maybe especially if - they have no personal stake in the interaction, e.g. they aren''t being victimised themselves, nor are they friends of the victim or from the victim''s community... like a shop customer stopping a robber. They don''t gain from the action - they actually risk being attacked by the robber''s accomplices - but cumulatively, society does gain.

So, in the case of a message board or a conversation, a subtle casual comment such as referring to one of our players as "Blacknamee" can either be left as it is in all its glory, as intended to revive or maintain the social marginalisation of a given minority group through humour, or it can be challenged by someone of a more reflective persuasion even if everyone in earshot/ reading is a whitey. <- note hilarious ironically auto-racist ending

[/quote]Did you actually read what I said?