The Fight Against Racism in Football

[hogesar 9,673]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="GenerationA47"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="SPat"]

So if you''ve got a black friend and someone racially abuses them, you really shouldn''t get involved or even offended if you''re white? hmmmm. How about if you''re German and your friends are jewish and you see their house being burnt down?[/quote]Ah, point twist, nice one. Of course you should care about your friends, thats a given.My point is about the have a go heroes that see, say, someone on a message board, who they don''t know from adam, but feel the need to be offended on their behalf.[:)][/quote]

Morty son, I put it to you thus: isn''t the quality of a society measured by the number of have-a-go-heroes who intervene when they see something wrong going on, even if - maybe especially if - they have no personal stake in the interaction, e.g. they aren''t being victimised themselves, nor are they friends of the victim or from the victim''s community... like a shop customer stopping a robber. They don''t gain from the action - they actually risk being attacked by the robber''s accomplices - but cumulatively, society does gain.

So, in the case of a message board or a conversation, a subtle casual comment such as referring to one of our players as "Blacknamee" can either be left as it is in all its glory, as intended to revive or maintain the social marginalisation of a given minority group through humour, or it can be challenged by someone of a more reflective persuasion even if everyone in earshot/ reading is a whitey. <- note hilarious ironically auto-racist ending

[/quote]Did you actually read what I said?

[/quote]Evidently not.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="GenerationA47"]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="SPat"]

So if you''ve got a black friend and someone racially abuses them, you really shouldn''t get involved or even offended if you''re white? hmmmm. How about if you''re German and your friends are jewish and you see their house being burnt down?[/quote]Ah, point twist, nice one. Of course you should care about your friends, thats a given.My point is about the have a go heroes that see, say, someone on a message board, who they don''t know from adam, but feel the need to be offended on their behalf.[:)][/quote]

Morty son, I put it to you thus: isn''t the quality of a society measured by the number of have-a-go-heroes who intervene when they see something wrong going on, even if - maybe especially if - they have no personal stake in the interaction, e.g. they aren''t being victimised themselves, nor are they friends of the victim or from the victim''s community... like a shop customer stopping a robber. They don''t gain from the action - they actually risk being attacked by the robber''s accomplices - but cumulatively, society does gain.

So, in the case of a message board or a conversation, a subtle casual comment such as referring to one of our players as "Blacknamee" can either be left as it is in all its glory, as intended to revive or maintain the social marginalisation of a given minority group through humour, or it can be challenged by someone of a more reflective persuasion even if everyone in earshot/ reading is a whitey. <- note hilarious ironically auto-racist ending

[/quote]No

[GenerationA47 752]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="morty"]

Did you actually read what I said?

[/quote]
Evidently not.
[/quote]

Absolutely, and responded suitably with a different viewpoint to your "feel the need to be offended on their behalf" criticism, as you can see.

What''s up?

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="hogesar"]Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)[/quote]People need to get a grip of themselves to be honest.They feel the need to be somehow morally outraged on someone else''s behalf, and are scared to hold their owns views and somehow be branded not fit to be part of modern, politically correct society.If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business.[/quote]First, let me say that you seem to be suggesting white people cannot by definition be victims of racism, which is nonsense.  I have family who live in Bradford and they elaborate on several incidents where they have suffered from racism at the hands of the Asian community.  I can understand why racism is seen here in Norfolk as something white people do to everyone else, but sadly it''s not just the white man''s burden.Second point is this: when I report racist jokes on the Friday joke thread to Pete, I don''t do it because I''m "offended" by someone else being racist.  I do it because racist jokes on a football message board are not acceptable, any more than racist jokes at a football match are acceptable.As for racist language, I think it depends on the context.  In the example above from our own boy band lookalikey, I don''t view that as a racist statement as much as a descriptive statement.  If your man above had said "the black one with the big lips and fuzzy hair," or "the one who looks like the fellow off a marmalade jar," I think it clearly becomes racist.Trust this is clear.  [:)]

[GenerationA47 752]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="GenerationA47"]

I put it to you thus: isn''t the quality of a society measured by the number of have-a-go-heroes who intervene when they see something wrong going on, even if - maybe especially if - they have no personal stake in the interaction

[/quote]

No
[/quote]

Come on Sausage, I''m not expecting anyone to be a philosopher but I''m sure you can engage more constructively than that.[:)]

Why do you think these thief-catching guys are lauded in the papers? Or why Schindler''s List was so popular? Clue: it''s not because most people despise them for being ''busybodies''. PS Just to confirm that I''m not putting myself up as a Schindler...

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="morty"][quote user="hogesar"]Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)[/quote]People need to get a grip of themselves to be honest.They feel the need to be somehow morally outraged on someone else''s behalf, and are scared to hold their owns views and somehow be branded not fit to be part of modern, politically correct society.If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business.[/quote]First, let me say that you seem to be suggesting white people cannot by definition be victims of racism, which is nonsense.  I have family who live in Bradford and they elaborate on several incidents where they have suffered from racism at the hands of the Asian community.  I can understand why racism is seen here in Norfolk as something white people do to everyone else, but sadly it''s not just the white man''s burden.Second point is this: when I report racist jokes on the Friday joke thread to Pete, I don''t do it because I''m "offended" by someone else being racist.  I do it because racist jokes on a football message board are not acceptable, any more than racist jokes at a football match are acceptable.As for racist language, I think it depends on the context.  In the example above from our own boy band lookalikey, I don''t view that as a racist statement as much as a descriptive statement.  If your man above had said "the black one with the big lips and fuzzy hair," or "the one who looks like the fellow off a marmalade jar," I think it clearly becomes racist.Trust this is clear.  [:)][/quote]I am not suggesting that white people cannot be the victims of racism at all, you have read it wrong. I am making the point of people being offended by racism that isn''t actually directed at them, or their ethnic group.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="morty"]If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair

enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else

being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your

business.[/quote]Okay... But I guess you can see my confusion.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="morty"]If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair

enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else

being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your

business.[/quote]Okay... But I guess you can see my confusion.[/quote]Yeah, guess so.I trust my explanation clarifies the point I was trying to make though.

[William Darby 0]

For what''s worth I can see both sides.  And as quality of life is mentioned I''ll suggest this.  If Mr Smith lives in an area that it''s particularity high on crime anti-social behaviour/ graffiti (get  the picture) .  Is Mr Smith really going too be bothered if he overhears a pair of herberts telling a racist joke at the bus stop?  Probably not, he''s more bothered that his pad don''t get turned over while he''s at work.

[GenerationA47 752]

[quote user="hogesar"]someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!". [/quote]

...And as Hogesar''s tale shows, some anti-racists are not heroes but rather fools who damage their own cause. Mind you, the "victimising minorities = free speech" brigade has had its fair share of mega-losers down the ages. Plus quoting a clearly ridiculous extreme and claiming it represents an oppressive majority view can''t be especially helpful.

[GenerationA47 752]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]Is Mr Smith really going too be bothered if he overhears a pair of herberts telling a racist joke at the bus stop? Probably not, he''s more bothered that his pad don''t get turned over while he''s at work.
[/quote]

Or, rather more probably depends on whether his name is Mr Silly Sausage Smith or Mr Generation A47 Smith. Personally the graffitti, shouting and crime won''t derail my other thought processes.

For what it''s worth, many successful anti-racists in history have been working class, e.g the (factual, not fictional) East Enders who physically defeated Mosley''s Blackshirts in the 1930s were living in a time and place of abject poverty but strong moral values, and stood up on behalf of themselves and their Jewish neighbours.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="GenerationA47"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]Is Mr Smith really going too be bothered if he overhears a pair of herberts telling a racist joke at the bus stop? Probably not, he''s more bothered that his pad don''t get turned over while he''s at work.[/quote]

Or, rather more probably depends on whether his name is Mr Silly Sausage Smith or Mr Generation A47 Smith. Personally the graffitti, shouting and crime won''t derail my other thought processes.

For what it''s worth, many successful anti-racists in history have been working class, e.g the (factual, not fictional) East Enders who physically defeated Mosley''s Blackshirts in the 1930s were living in a time and place of abject poverty but strong moral values, and stood up on behalf of themselves and their Jewish neighbours.

[/quote]The reason the Blackshirts were defeated was because they were aligned with Nazi Germany with run up to the war.  So obviously they''d lose support.  But really, that''s a million miles away from whether many people have much more on their plate, than challenging a racist joke during a private conversation.  That''s the bit I tend to agree with the Morty about keeping your nose out of it. 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="GenerationA47"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]Is Mr Smith really going too be bothered if he overhears a pair of herberts telling a racist joke at the bus stop? Probably not, he''s more bothered that his pad don''t get turned over while he''s at work.[/quote]

Or, rather more probably depends on whether his name is Mr Silly Sausage Smith or Mr Generation A47 Smith. Personally the graffitti, shouting and crime won''t derail my other thought processes.

For what it''s worth, many successful anti-racists in history have been working class, e.g the (factual, not fictional) East Enders who physically defeated Mosley''s Blackshirts in the 1930s were living in a time and place of abject poverty but strong moral values, and stood up on behalf of themselves and their Jewish neighbours.

[/quote]The reason the Blackshirts were defeated was because they were aligned with Nazi Germany with run up to the war.  So obviously they''d lose support.  But really, that''s a million miles away from whether many people have much more on their plate, than challenging a racist joke during a private conversation.  That''s the bit I tend to agree with the Morty about keeping your nose out of it.  [/quote]Depends how you define "private conversation" - is a conversation at a bus stop private?  Surely by definition it''s public?

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="GenerationA47"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]Is Mr Smith really going too be bothered if he overhears a pair of herberts telling a racist joke at the bus stop? Probably not, he''s more bothered that his pad don''t get turned over while he''s at work.[/quote]

Or, rather more probably depends on whether his name is Mr Silly Sausage Smith or Mr Generation A47 Smith. Personally the graffitti, shouting and crime won''t derail my other thought processes.

For what it''s worth, many successful anti-racists in history have been working class, e.g the (factual, not fictional) East Enders who physically defeated Mosley''s Blackshirts in the 1930s were living in a time and place of abject poverty but strong moral values, and stood up on behalf of themselves and their Jewish neighbours.

[/quote]The reason the Blackshirts were defeated was because they were aligned with Nazi Germany with run up to the war.  So obviously they''d lose support.  But really, that''s a million miles away from whether many people have much more on their plate, than challenging a racist joke during a private conversation.  That''s the bit I tend to agree with the Morty about keeping your nose out of it.  [/quote]Depends how you define "private conversation" - is a conversation at a bus stop private?  Surely by definition it''s public?[/quote]So if you were at a bus stop and two people were clacking you''d think it''s okay to chip in with your opinion on whatever subject it was? I was going to ask A47 a scenario to see how far his principles goes. If two black men were in a ''conversation'' at a bus stop.  And they were using the ''N'' word would he chip in and tell them they couldn''t use it?

[hogesar 9,673]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="morty"][quote user="hogesar"]Thing is Morty, most people owould view it as somehow racist.

I don''t know why, but i think people have started looking for racism when its not even there.

If your kid had said "That man over there with the brown face which would indicate he''s unemployment has a pertruding body odour'' then yes, he''s been racist. But he hasn''t said anything derogatory.

I don''t use the word coloured as i think some take offence to it, fair enough. But someone asked me who someone was and i said "He''s the black one" and a gasp of shock horrow came from the other persons mouth. I was then told "You can''t say that, that''s racist!".

Clearly they were the one''s who thought being black was an insult, and are racist themselves :)[/quote]People need to get a grip of themselves to be honest.They feel the need to be somehow morally outraged on someone else''s behalf, and are scared to hold their owns views and somehow be branded not fit to be part of modern, politically correct society.If you''re of non-white persuasion and are offended by racism, then fair enough. If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business.[/quote]First, let me say that you seem to be suggesting white people cannot by definition be victims of racism, which is nonsense.  I have family who live in Bradford and they elaborate on several incidents where they have suffered from racism at the hands of the Asian community.  I can understand why racism is seen here in Norfolk as something white people do to everyone else, but sadly it''s not just the white man''s burden.Second point is this: when I report racist jokes on the Friday joke thread to Pete, I don''t do it because I''m "offended" by someone else being racist.  I do it because racist jokes on a football message board are not acceptable, any more than racist jokes at a football match are acceptable.As for racist language, I think it depends on the context.  In the example above from our own boy band lookalikey, I don''t view that as a racist statement as much as a descriptive statement.  If your man above had said "the black one with the big lips and fuzzy hair," or "the one who looks like the fellow off a marmalade jar," I think it clearly becomes racist.Trust this is clear.  [:)][/quote]First of all... [:@].Second of all, in relation to the Racist jokes.. I don''t think I have posted one. I mean there are one''s which are too extreme even for me, but generally i can laugh at a joke about pretty much anything. If you, however, find it unacceptable then i think you or whoever else is perfectly within their own right to report it.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="GenerationA47"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]Is Mr Smith really going too be bothered if he overhears a pair of herberts telling a racist joke at the bus stop? Probably not, he''s more bothered that his pad don''t get turned over while he''s at work.[/quote]

Or, rather more probably depends on whether his name is Mr Silly Sausage Smith or Mr Generation A47 Smith. Personally the graffitti, shouting and crime won''t derail my other thought processes.

For what it''s worth, many successful anti-racists in history have been working class, e.g the (factual, not fictional) East Enders who physically defeated Mosley''s Blackshirts in the 1930s were living in a time and place of abject poverty but strong moral values, and stood up on behalf of themselves and their Jewish neighbours.

[/quote]The reason the Blackshirts were defeated was because they were aligned with Nazi Germany with run up to the war.  So obviously they''d lose support.  But really, that''s a million miles away from whether many people have much more on their plate, than challenging a racist joke during a private conversation.  That''s the bit I tend to agree with the Morty about keeping your nose out of it.  [/quote]Depends how you define "private conversation" - is a conversation at a bus stop private?  Surely by definition it''s public?[/quote]So if you were at a bus stop and two people were clacking you''d think it''s okay to chip in with your opinion on whatever subject it was? I was going to ask A47 a scenario to see how far his principles goes. If two black men were in a ''conversation'' at a bus stop.  And they were using the ''N'' word would he chip in and tell them they couldn''t use it?[/quote]Don''t know, you''d have to ask him.But as the "N" word (I presume you don''t mean "Nincompoop") is generally deemed offensive to black people, and yet if two black people are happily using it, then it would appear to be a non-issue.  I believe it''s called "reclaiming".http://racism-politics.suite101.com/article.cfm/niggerAs to your previous point: no, I would respect the boundaries of their conversation.  If two people were talking at a bus stop about the price of fish, I''d leave them to it.  If they were talking about Gary Doherty being slow, lazy, fat, useless, I''d probably leave them to it.  If they were talking about f@*king p@kis taking our f*@king jobs then I might indicate that they need to get a life and sort themselves out.  Of course, there''s an element of keyboard warrior in this statement as I would probably weigh up their size, physique, appetite for violence and their propensity to kick the sh&t out of me first, and it is certainly a possibility that I would say nothing and slightly hate myself.But I''d rather be disappointed by not doing something I felt I should than be ignorant enough to think it''s okay, it doesn''t affect me because I''m white.

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="ſilly ſauſage"][quote user="GenerationA47"]

[quote user="ſilly ſauſage"]Is Mr Smith really going too be bothered if he overhears a pair of herberts telling a racist joke at the bus stop? Probably not, he''s more bothered that his pad don''t get turned over while he''s at work.[/quote]

Or, rather more probably depends on whether his name is Mr Silly Sausage Smith or Mr Generation A47 Smith. Personally the graffitti, shouting and crime won''t derail my other thought processes.

For what it''s worth, many successful anti-racists in history have been working class, e.g the (factual, not fictional) East Enders who physically defeated Mosley''s Blackshirts in the 1930s were living in a time and place of abject poverty but strong moral values, and stood up on behalf of themselves and their Jewish neighbours.

[/quote]The reason the Blackshirts were defeated was because they were aligned with Nazi Germany with run up to the war.  So obviously they''d lose support.  But really, that''s a million miles away from whether many people have much more on their plate, than challenging a racist joke during a private conversation.  That''s the bit I tend to agree with the Morty about keeping your nose out of it.  [/quote]Depends how you define "private conversation" - is a conversation at a bus stop private?  Surely by definition it''s public?[/quote]So if you were at a bus stop and two people were clacking you''d think it''s okay to chip in with your opinion on whatever subject it was? I was going to ask A47 a scenario to see how far his principles goes. If two black men were in a ''conversation'' at a bus stop.  And they were using the ''N'' word would he chip in and tell them they couldn''t use it?[/quote]Don''t know, you''d have to ask him.But as the "N" word (I presume you don''t mean "Nincompoop") is generally deemed offensive to black people, and yet if two black people are happily using it, then it would appear to be a non-issue.  I believe it''s called "reclaiming".http://racism-politics.suite101.com/article.cfm/niggerAs to your previous point: no, I would respect the boundaries of their conversation.  If two people were talking at a bus stop about the price of fish, I''d leave them to it.  If they were talking about Gary Doherty being slow, lazy, fat, useless, I''d probably leave them to it.  If they were talking about f@*king p@kis taking our f*@king jobs then I might indicate that they need to get a life and sort themselves out.  Of course, there''s an element of keyboard warrior in this statement as I would probably weigh up their size, physique, appetite for violence and their propensity to kick the sh&t out of me first, and it is certainly a possibility that I would say nothing and slightly hate myself.But I''d rather be disappointed by not doing something I felt I should than be ignorant enough to think it''s okay, it doesn''t affect me because I''m white.[/quote]I''m not for one moment saying you''re wrong or anyone for that matter.  But, ''If they were talking about f@*king p@kis taking our f*@king jobs then I

might indicate that they need to get a life and sort themselves out''  That''s a little more than a stupid joke.  If they were in a full rant about BS like that, then that''s fair enough If you, me, or anybody felt brave enough to tell them to ''get a grip'' without fear of a smack in the gob[:)]

[KC_Canary 0]

I can remember watching a boxing match on TV one of the boxers was white one was black, they were wearing almost identical shorts. The commentator when describing them said somethong along the lines of boxer a (can''t remember his name) was wearing the shorts with the white trim, which was barely visable.

Was he being sensitive or just terified of being accused of racism?

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote user="KC_Canary"]

I can remember watching a boxing match on TV one of the boxers was white one was black, they were wearing almost identical shorts. The commentator when describing them said somethong along the lines of boxer a (can''t remember his name) was wearing the shorts with the white trim, which was barely visable.

Was he being sensitive or just terified of being accused of racism?

[/quote]Bit of both probably.Do people think this was racist? As it barely got mentioned in the leadup to the fight, and if it was the other way round it would all hell would have broke loose.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7133862.stm

[First Jedi 0]

"If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business."

Is this your point Morty? If so I''m surprised.

For example (true story), a local business man addressed his staff, telling them to "work like n***ers"... while none of his staff were black or anything but white (you could probably guess his hiring practices) - it doesn''t matter - I''d be offended by that, and so should anyone - whether they be black, white, pink or purple.

In this case, one of the staff successfully sued him, and I believe, quite rightly. Slavery - the direct implication to the statement - should be offensive to everyone. The by-line was, that member of staff did have a black husband and so they had a personal investment beyond other members of staff, but on principal, I don''t believe that should''ve had a bearing on what was a deliberately and overtly racist and offensive remark.

[morty 0]

[quote user="First Jedi"]"If you''re white and feel the need to be offended by someone else being racist, then seriously, butt out, its really none of your business."

Is this your point Morty? If so I''m surprised.

For example (true story), a local business man addressed his staff, telling them to "work like n***ers"... while none of his staff were black or anything but white (you could probably guess his hiring practices) - it doesn''t matter - I''d be offended by that, and so should anyone - whether they be black, white, pink or purple.

In this case, one of the staff successfully sued him, and I believe, quite rightly. Slavery - the direct implication to the statement - should be offensive to everyone. The by-line was, that member of staff did have a black husband and so they had a personal investment beyond other members of staff, but on principal, I don''t believe that should''ve had a bearing on what was a deliberately and overtly racist and offensive remark.[/quote]And this actually illustrates my point quite well.Its a turn of phrase, that was perfectly acceptable not so many years ago, and the fact that he didn''t actually address anyone of non white origin means that was he directly affecting the people he was talking to? They were probably more bothered by him wanting them to work hard rather than the actual phrase.Sorry mate I don''t subscribe to the "I should be offended by this just because someone else may be offended by this" theory.I suspect theres far more to the story than you are telling and are simplifying it to try and make a point.

[First Jedi 0]

Okay - so I am surprised... and a not a little disappointed...

"I suspect theres far more to the story than you are telling and are simplifying it to try and make a point. "

Nope - if I was just "making a point" I''d not have mentioned that the person was married to a black person - as it doesn''t help my point, by muddying the morality - my point makes itself, IMHO - simplified or not. Actually - another fact occurred to me, that I did leave out, and does help make my point - the boss in question was from another country and is an immigrant - there''s irony, no?

What more to the story do you would like to make up about it? And how would that make my point any less valid?

Whether I''m black or not, I am offended by oppression - whether it be by slavery, race, sexuality, gender, what county I come from etc.

[First Jedi 0]

"Its a turn of phrase, that was perfectly acceptable not so many years ago"

Not to me, it wasn''t! And not to many, many, many people who were wise beyond their time... just because something was "acceptable" (*cough*) in the past, is no argument for it being acceptable now.

[morty 0]

[quote user="First Jedi"]Okay - so I am surprised... and a not a little disappointed...

"I suspect theres far more to the story than you are telling and are simplifying it to try and make a point. "

Nope - if I was just "making a point" I''d not have mentioned that the person was married to a black person - as it doesn''t help my point, by muddying the morality - my point makes itself, IMHO - simplified or not. Actually - another fact occurred to me, that I did leave out, and does help make my point - the boss in question was from another country and is an immigrant - there''s irony, no?

What more to the story do you would like to make up about it? And how would that make my point any less valid?

Whether I''m black or not, I am offended by oppression - whether it be by slavery, race, sexuality, gender, what county I come from etc.[/quote]Good for you[Y]For me its like seeing guys attending a lesbian rights rally, I guess its nice to empathise, but seriously, its not your issue to get all excited about.

[morty 0]

[quote user="First Jedi"]"Its a turn of phrase, that was perfectly acceptable not so many years ago"

Not to me, it wasn''t! And not to many, many, many people who were wise beyond their time... just because something was "acceptable" (*cough*) in the past, is no argument for it being acceptable now.[/quote]Do you know in the 1970''s you could actually buy paint in the shade "Nigger brown"?Of course certain things were socially acceptable in years gone by.

[First Jedi 0]

"Of course certain things were socially acceptable in years gone by."

So - anything that was socially acceptable at one time or another, is perfectly fine now?

[morty 0]

[quote user="First Jedi"]"Of course certain things were socially acceptable in years gone by."

So - anything that was socially acceptable at one time or another, is perfectly fine now?[/quote]No, thats not what I said.You didn''t say when your story was set, how old the boss was, and also neglected to mention his ethnic origin.I know lots of older people who still think it perfectly acceptable to use terms you would consider racist, also non white people are perfectly entiled to (and many do) use the word n***er.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="First Jedi"]"Its a turn of phrase, that was perfectly acceptable not so many years ago" Not to me, it wasn''t! And not to many, many, many people who were wise beyond their time... just because something was "acceptable" (*cough*) in the past, is no argument for it being acceptable now.[/quote]

Jedi - Another turn of phrase from many years ago is "the n****r in the woodpile". It''s still used quite innocently by older people as a phrase they were brought up with but with no racist intent. If you look up the origin of this phrase it is severely racist and younger people who never used it would be appalled to hear it. But in time these phrases will disappear completely and I suppose, until then, we have to be a little more understanding.

Now is anybody going to enlighten me about why Leeds United appear to be so racist over full backs[:^)]

[;)]

 

[hogesar 9,673]

Why wouldn''t you push over a black guy on a bike?

Cause it''s probably your bike.

Now, that''s incredibly offensive and racist. But not to me, personally. I find it funny.

[First Jedi 0]

"You didn''t say when your story was set, how old the boss was, and also neglected to mention his ethnic origin."

Okay - see what you are saying now!

It was approx. 10 years ago, the boss was 45 ish, and he is not of ethnic origin, but was a legal white immigrant from another European country.

"I know lots of older people who still think it perfectly acceptable to use terms you would consider racist"

I appreciate this, too... my grandfather is as racist as they come - but he is over 90, so I let him off, as he is beyond the point of ever changing his mind, or having a rational objective discussion on the subject. Doesn''t make what he say right - quite the contrary - but what can you do, eh? If you are 90+ and equally as ignorant, I''ll be more than happy to leave you to your opinion, too. :)

"also non white people are perfectly entiled to (and many do) use the word n***er."

Hmmm... I''m finding it difficult to think of a good example - care to enlighten me?