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a1canary

Don't be fooled by Palace situation

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Them going in to admin is a calculated decision. They''ve obviously decided that they can''t go up this year (probably true) and that they can avoid relegation (also probably true) meaning that the net result is a massive write down of their debts. Thankyou very much!

They won''t be the last to do this. Given the level that many club debts have reached since the admin penalty was introduced, it seems to me the penalty should be increased to 20 points.

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[quote user="Power Ranger Canary"]surely deciding to enter administration when easily avoidable is an illegal practice?[/quote]True, but what if they know that a few million is imminent from the sale of Moses, and want to make sure that transfer is delayed until the debts are written off? Is that even possible?

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According to the administrator, who was interviewed on Radio 5 last night, it wasn''t Palace who called them in but a "secured lender" (a company not an individual, not named).  Apparently they have the power to do this under the terms of the loan. 

 

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urm not sure to be honest in theory that could happen and would make business sense. However with the admins effectivly running the club the old board dont have a say in what goes on (i think) so they could sell moses for a fraction of the value hes worth just to balance the books.

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Going to administration when trying to sell moses is the worst thing possible. It''ll knock down his price as the administrators are now the ones to accept the bid, not the chairman. And if they were found to be going into admin tactically, they''d be treated the same as Leeds when Bates did it on relegation day.

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[quote user="a1canary"]Them going in to admin is a calculated decision. They''ve obviously decided that they can''t go up this year (probably true) and that they can avoid relegation (also probably true) meaning that the net result is a massive write down of their debts. Thankyou very much!

They won''t be the last to do this. Given the level that many club debts have reached since the admin penalty was introduced, it seems to me the penalty should be increased to 20 points.[/quote]This is the worst time possible for them to go into admin. Palace will start to lose players on cheap transfers as the administrators sell their assets off. If they were doing it cynically they would of waited until the day after the transfer window to go into admin.The Moses transfer will now probably be re-negotiated and they will receive less than they would of done before going into admin.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="a1canary"]Them going in to admin is a calculated decision. They''ve obviously decided that they can''t go up this year (probably true) and that they can avoid relegation (also probably true) meaning that the net result is a massive write down of their debts. Thankyou very much! They won''t be the last to do this. Given the level that many club debts have reached since the admin penalty was introduced, it seems to me the penalty should be increased to 20 points.[/quote]

This is the worst time possible for them to go into admin. Palace will start to lose players on cheap transfers as the administrators sell their assets off. If they were doing it cynically they would of waited until the day after the transfer window to go into admin.

[/quote]

Good point.  As posted above, the administrators were called in by a "secured lender" not by the club itself - all the lenders care about is their money, that''s probably why they''ve called them in now, while players can be sold.

 

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The latest news is that the admistrators have banned the playing of Moses tonight. This is probably to avoid injury so that they can sell him.  

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Five Live were saying earlier that Simon Jordan stands to lose millions here, as he''s lent the club plenty over the years. Bear in mind that these were loans to the club, and that a club in administration will probably pay about 5 or 10 pence for every pound of debt.

I can''t see it being a deliberate act on Jordan''s part, at least.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]I wonder if we can go into administration if we finish 10 points above 3rd place??[/quote]

I would have thought the penalty would be put onto next season''s points tally, the same as the post-Bates relgation ruling. Handy as that would be!

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Hmm, prob wrong about them doing it on purpose in this case then, given situation with Jordan, Moses etc. Just tryin to provoke some debate on the subject! I have to say i have never heard of a creditor being allowed to force a business into administration before. That is pretty frightening and possibly relevant to us. Don''t think their debts are much worse than ours. Only diff is our better ability to service them on account of our gates. Without them (i.e. us!) we''re screwed.

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[quote user="a1canary"]Hmm, prob wrong about them doing it on purpose in this case then, given situation with Jordan, Moses etc. Just tryin to provoke some debate on the subject! I have to say i have never heard of a creditor being allowed to force a business into administration before. That is pretty frightening and possibly relevant to us. Don''t think their debts are much worse than ours. Only diff is our better ability to service them on account of our gates. Without them (i.e. us!) we''re screwed.[/quote]It happens all the time, don''t you read the press. Very often it is HMRC who seem to be in the High Court every other week with one club or another.

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[quote user="a1canary"]Hmm, prob wrong about them doing it on purpose in this case then, given situation with Jordan, Moses etc. Just tryin to provoke some debate on the subject! I have to say i have never heard of a creditor being allowed to force a business into administration before. That is pretty frightening and possibly relevant to us. Don''t think their debts are much worse than ours. Only diff is our better ability to service them on account of our gates. Without them (i.e. us!) we''re screwed.[/quote]

Nor had I, but it was straight from the horse''s mouth (ie. the administrator).  I had the same thought as you - how common is this, and could we be vulnerable?  We''re only solvent now because our major lenders have agreed to suspend repayments until the end of the season.

 

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[quote user="canary cherub "]

[quote user="a1canary"]Hmm, prob wrong about them doing it on purpose in this case then, given situation with Jordan, Moses etc. Just tryin to provoke some debate on the subject! I have to say i have never heard of a creditor being allowed to force a business into administration before. That is pretty frightening and possibly relevant to us. Don''t think their debts are much worse than ours. Only diff is our better ability to service them on account of our gates. Without them (i.e. us!) we''re screwed.[/quote]

Nor had I, but it was straight from the horse''s mouth (ie. the administrator).  I had the same thought as you - how common is this, and could we be vulnerable?  We''re only solvent now because our major lenders have agreed to suspend repayments until the end of the season.

 

[/quote]

How do you think Kings Lynn went?

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Yes i do thanks. HMRC are an agent of the state, of course they have those powers. They are the ''business police'' if you like. If everyone who lent you money could apply to get you wound up tho i''d be very surprised.

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[quote user="a1canary"]Hmm, prob wrong about them doing it on purpose in this case then, given situation with Jordan, Moses etc. Just tryin to provoke some debate on the subject! I have to say i have never heard of a creditor being allowed to force a business into administration before. That is pretty frightening and possibly relevant to us. Don''t think their debts are much worse than ours. Only diff is our better ability to service them on account of our gates. Without them (i.e. us!) we''re screwed.[/quote]They have debts of £30 million and no significant assets (they don''t own Shelhurst Park).

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23m vs 30m. Another year like this year and we''re virtually there. Owning CR doesn''t help us pay the debt. Unless we sell.

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[quote user="a1canary"]

They won''t be the last to do this. Given the level that many club debts have reached since the admin penalty was introduced, it seems to me the penalty should be increased to 20 points.[/quote]

Administration should be automatic relegation.

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[quote user="a1canary"]another year like last year that should be sorry. I.e. 5m loss[/quote]

We won''t lose 5 million this year....down to the fact the wage bill is considerably less but we''re still getting the same income in.

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I know our situation isnt brilliant but its still nowhere near as bad as pompeys. Really cant see how they are going to stay afloat especially if they go down. Just seen now that they are so skint they have had to close their website down as have failed to pay the website provider for a few months

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Any secured lender will have the right to call in administrators without a court order in the event of a default on the loan. This doesn''t necessarily have to mean a missed payment. Ssometimes it can be as simple a breaching an interest cover ratio (i.e. the ratio of profits before interest and tax to the interest payments to be made) in the loan agreement.

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