Objectives of NCISA

[Graham Humphrey 13]

"What have you been drinking?" is, of course, a figure of speech. The smart reader also realises this.

[USAcanary 0]

Well...... NCISA/Mr Tilson............

Now that Mr Foulger has pledged to match the rebate and............ that it will spent purely on the first team budget.........

What now?

You can either dig in your heels and advise others to punish the club even more by sticking with your earlier call......... or show that you are willing to work with the club as set out in your written agenda.

OK, we get it, you don''t like Delia, you dont like the board.

Trust me I get it and understand it.

You would be totally amazed if you knew how I felt but.... I want the club to do well more than my own personal feelings.

The bottom line is you cannot "cut off your nose to spite your face"

You either want Norwich to have the best chance of succeeding or you don''t.

We ALL have worked with or employed people we don''t get on with.

You often put the diffrences aside for the sake of the big picture.

Lets look at the reality of the situation.

The two most vocal/prominant board members were sacked.

If you are anti-board that should have been a huge positive.

It looks like from recent statements/actions that Mr Foulger is going to take a more prominant role at the club.

I feel it''s a bit unfair for some to slate him before seeing what he can do in this new role.

In recent weeks he has talked about two main areas.

He is trying to hoard smaller investors together to get involved in the club.

He has pledged to match the rebate with his own personal funds and pledged it will be used purely on the first team.

We can all argue about the agenda...... is it emotional/incentive blackmail....... sure it is.

No arguments here on that.

But so is all forms of advertising/offers.

Early ST renewal is an incentive... so are interest free payments.

I don''t see many complaints about those!

Whatever the agenda the individual season ticket holder must decide if these are positive ideas that will help bring funds to the club.

Personally I think any ideas that bring more money into the club/first team budget can only HELP our chances of promotion.

Isn''t that the goal of all fans?

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]"What have you been drinking?" is, of course, a figure of speech. The smart reader also realises this.[/quote]

He suggested I had been drinking

(i.e. I am drunk when I posted)

Why even say it in the first place unless he is looking to denigrate my character?

Very poor indeed.

Using such personal tactics is often a crutch for those who cannot reasonably argue the issues.

As I said before I want to talk about issues related to NCFC yet others feel the need to talk about personal issues totally unrelated.

Very telling.

[GMF 757]

Well said USACanary, the Club are trying to maximise the income for the playing budet for next season. If people want to call it emotional blackmail, or look backwards as past mistakes, so be it, personally, I''m looking forwards and I''d rather they make every effort to maximise the playing budget for next season.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 412]

[quote user="GMF"]Well said USACanary, the Club are trying to maximise the income for the playing budet for next season. If people want to call it emotional blackmail, or look backwards as past mistakes, so be it, personally, I''m looking forwards and I''d rather they make every effort to maximise the playing budget for next season.[/quote]

And at the end of next season when no rebates are due(well I hope not)do they then beg for donations?

[GMF 757]

IncH_HigH,

The claimed £8.5M playing budget from last season, almost certainly wasn''t the biggest in the Championship, but it certainly wasn''t the smallest and should have been more than enough to keep us in that division. Likewise, whatever next season''s budget is, and we don''t know that yet, it should be more than enough to keep us in League One.

Ofcourse, how it will be spent is another matter, but rather have it as large as possible is my view. Sorry if that offends.

[xxxx 0]

The club are trying to take the fans for mugs once again , take your rebates people , think about how much they thought of the fans before appointing the clueless Bryan Gunn .We are customers its up to the owners to provide the product , if they cannot do that then they should move on .

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Gunns NO Legend"]The club are trying to take the fans for mugs once again , take your rebates people , think about how much they thought of the fans before appointing the clueless Bryan Gunn .We are customers its up to the owners to provide the product , if they cannot do that then they should move on .[/quote]

How does that help our chances of getting promoted this season?

[xxxx 0]

[quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="Gunns NO Legend"]The club are trying to take the fans for mugs once again , take your rebates people , think about how much they thought of the fans before appointing the clueless Bryan Gunn .We are customers its up to the owners to provide the product , if they cannot do that then they should move on .[/quote]

How does that help our chances of getting promoted this season?[/quote] Not up to the fans to buy the team thats the job of the people who own it . If you believe an extra few quid rebate money will improve our chances you really are living in cloud cuckoo land , we will gain promotion when we get owners who are more interested in football than cookery , and a football manager instead of somebody who is just in place to say ..yes Delia .

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="Gunns NO Legend"][quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="Gunns NO Legend"]The club are trying to take the fans for mugs once again , take your rebates people , think about how much they thought of the fans before appointing the clueless Bryan Gunn .We are customers its up to the owners to provide the product , if they cannot do that then they should move on .[/quote]

How does that help our chances of getting promoted this season?[/quote] Not up to the fans to buy the team thats the job of the people who own it . If you believe an extra few quid rebate money will improve our chances you really are living in cloud cuckoo land , we will gain promotion when we get owners who are more interested in football than cookery , and a football manager instead of somebody who is just in place to say ..yes Delia .[/quote]

So your "plan" is to get rid of the board with no other investors waiting in the wings.

Which would lead to admin/liquidation.

[xxxx 0]

 I would be more than confident of somebody stepping in if the cook was forced out , if she stays the club is finished anyway so whats to lose . I see you are trying to convince wotb posters not to take the rebate now must be something of a mission for you , will you be writing a cheque out and posting it over the pond to help the club in this time of need .

[ca 1]

[quote user="GMF"]Well said USACanary, the Club are trying to maximise the income for the playing budet for next season. If people want to call it emotional blackmail, or look backwards as past mistakes, so be it, personally, I''m looking forwards and I''d rather they make every effort to maximise the playing budget for next season.[/quote]

 

Well you let them keep your rebate then and let us other season ticket holders decide what we want to do with ours.

 

[GMF 757]

Cityangel, I''ve always said it''s a matter of personal choice, so there you go. If having a differing view to you offends, so be it.

[Badger 0]

[quote user="cityangel"] 

Well you let them keep your rebate then and let us other season ticket holders decide what we want to do with ours.

[/quote]I welcome your new found objectivity and look forward to you making similar comments to posters who recommend keeping the rebate. Mello has a thread on this subject. Or does the principle of free choice only apply to those that agree with you?

[Badger 0]

[quote user="Badger"][quote user="cityangel"] 

Well you let them keep your rebate then and let us other season ticket holders decide what we want to do with ours.

[/quote]I welcome your new found objectivity and look forward to you making similar comments to posters who recommend keeping the rebate. Mello has a thread on this subject. Or does the principle of free choice only apply to those that agree with you?[/quote]CA has done exactly this and I withdraw the question and apologise for my doubts on this.

[PurpleCanary 5,582]

It would be useful to have some clarity on one point. John Tilson, the NCISA chairman, said earlier in this thread that there would be a NCISA committee meeting on Thursday (ie, yesterday). The clear implication was that the issue of the rebate would be discussed.In today''s EDP he is quoted at length, attacking the club over the Foulger offer. It looks as if these are John''s personal views (“I think it''s emotional blackmail”) until you get to this bit:"We [NCISA] stand by the press

statement [to claim the rebate]  that we issued after St Andrews Hall,” he said. “We will

stand by it, we are not going to start changing tack now.”That suggests, without stating it unequivocally, that the NCISA committee meeting discussed the Foulger offer and voted against it. Is that the case?

[Ankles50 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]It would be useful to have some clarity on one point. John Tilson, the NCISA chairman, said earlier in this thread that there would be a NCISA committee meeting on Thursday (ie, yesterday). The clear implication was that the issue of the rebate would be discussed.

In today''s EDP he is quoted at length, attacking the club over the Foulger offer. It looks as if these are John''s personal views (“I think it''s emotional blackmail”) until you get to this bit:

"We [NCISA] stand by the press statement [to claim the rebate]  that we issued after St Andrews Hall,” he said. “We will stand by it, we are not going to start changing tack now.”

That suggests, without stating it unequivocally, that the NCISA committee meeting discussed the Foulger offer and voted against it. Is that the case?[/quote]

 

I asked the same question, although more concisely a page back but it got lost in all the garbage

Can the thread get back on track & we get an answer to this please

[ca 1]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]It would be useful to have some clarity on one point. John Tilson, the NCISA chairman, said earlier in this thread that there would be a NCISA committee meeting on Thursday (ie, yesterday). The clear implication was that the issue of the rebate would be discussed.

In today''s EDP he is quoted at length, attacking the club over the Foulger offer. It looks as if these are John''s personal views (“I think it''s emotional blackmail”) until you get to this bit:

"We [NCISA] stand by the press statement [to claim the rebate]  that we issued after St Andrews Hall,” he said. “We will stand by it, we are not going to start changing tack now.”

That suggests, without stating it unequivocally, that the NCISA committee meeting discussed the Foulger offer and voted against it. Is that the case?[/quote]

 

I''m sure that one of the NCISA committee will answer that in due course, they only had their meeting last night and the majority of them work full time so be patient.

[USAcanary 0]

What a surprise!

Mr Tilson digs in his heels as predicted.

He is knocking someone who is willing to put his own money into the club.

His "you are entitled to that money" quote is totally bogus.

The club is not stopping anyone from claiming the rebate.

Its should be a 100% personal choice.

If the ST holder chooses to help the club then Mr Foulger has pledged his own money alongside the fans.

I love the way Mr Tilson slates Mr Foulger.

Just brilliant, lets start slating one of the few people who is willing to put substantial sums of money into the club at a time when money is tight.

Of course Mr Tilson would probably have slated him if he would have done nothing.

I stand by my comments that some of Mr Tilsons/NCISA ideas are potentially dangerous to the future of our club.

I think people need to know if Mr Tilson/NCISA favors "financial meltdown" as a way to remove the remaining 3 board members regardless of its effect on the club.

Will boycotts be next?

[ca 1]

Will you stop going on about NCISA all the time, they aren''t responsible for the mess the club is in and you can''t expect them to sort it out for you and the board.

If Foulger loves this club so much and has a spare million to donate to the players funds why doesn''t he just give it to them and say to us fans ''''I''ve given them £1m pounds, it would be good if some of the fans who can afford it could add to my pot to make it bigger but I can understand if they don''t want to as we created the shambles so its our job to sort it out..

No, for some reason he''ll only donate if we will - wonder why that is, or is that NCISA''s fault too?

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="USAcanary"]What a surprise! Mr Tilson digs in his heels as predicted. He is knocking someone who is willing to put his own money into the club. His "you are entitled to that money" quote is totally bogus. The club is not stopping anyone from claiming the rebate. Its should be a 100% personal choice. If the ST holder chooses to help the club then Mr Foulger has pledged his own money alongside the fans. I love the way Mr Tilson slates Mr Foulger. Just brilliant, lets start slating one of the few people who is willing to put substantial sums of money into the club at a time when money is tight. Of course Mr Tilson would probably have slated him if he would have done nothing. I stand by my comments that some of Mr Tilsons/NCISA ideas are potentially dangerous to the future of our club. I think people need to know if Mr Tilson/NCISA favors "financial meltdown" as a way to remove the remaining 3 board members regardless of its effect on the club. Will boycotts be next?[/quote]

Do you think that NCISA are the Gestapo?

That they can check all season ticket holders post and bank accounts?

Whatever the view expressed by NCISA it can only be a recommendation it is and always will be AN INDIVIDUAL CHOICE.

Again NCISA represent a small number of the fan base, proberbly the largest independent supporters association but still in relationship to the overall support very small.

They express the views of the majority of their members and in the case if the meeting at St Andrews hall, some of the views expressed by those in attendence.

Tilsons views expressed to the EDP regarding the investment by Mr Foulger did reflect some peoples views,not all by a long way. What it did highlight was the subtle blackmail technique being used by the current,three person board.

The club obviously need as much cash as it can get, as does many of it''s supporters in this economic climate.

The choice/request for more of the fans money should be addressed to ALL fans, near and far, and as a donation the Mr Foulgers matching amount could be welcomed with open arms.

Putting an unfair pressure on those that have shown the most loyalty does, in my opinion, not reflect well on our family club.

If you think that Delia and the two Michaels realy give a hoot what NCISA and the fans think then you must have been asleep over the last thiteen years.

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="cityangel"]

Will you stop going on about NCISA all the time, they aren''t responsible for the mess the club is in and you can''t expect them to sort it out for you and the board.

If Foulger loves this club so much and has a spare million to donate to the players funds why doesn''t he just give it to them and say to us fans ''''I''ve given them £1m pounds, it would be good if some of the fans who can afford it could add to my pot to make it bigger but I can understand if they don''t want to as we created the shambles so its our job to sort it out..

No, for some reason he''ll only donate if we will - wonder why that is, or is that NCISA''s fault too?

[/quote]

Stop talking about NCISA!!!!!

What would you prefer I talk about in an "Objectives of NCISA" thread?

Global warming? , Price of petrol?

How about NCISA comes up with something that helps the club instead of being one loan moan about what has happened in the past.

While NCISA keeps suggesting ideas that hurt the club I will continue to post my personal opinions.

We still dont know if NCISA favors boycotts?

[Mello Yello 2,303]

[quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="cityangel"]

Will you stop going on about NCISA all the time, they aren''t responsible for the mess the club is in and you can''t expect them to sort it out for you and the board.

If Foulger loves this club so much and has a spare million to donate to the players funds why doesn''t he just give it to them and say to us fans ''''I''ve given them £1m pounds, it would be good if some of the fans who can afford it could add to my pot to make it bigger but I can understand if they don''t want to as we created the shambles so its our job to sort it out..

No, for some reason he''ll only donate if we will - wonder why that is, or is that NCISA''s fault too?

[/quote] Stop talking about NCISA!!!!! What would you prefer I talk about in an "Objectives of NCISA" thread? Global warming? , Price of petrol? How about NCISA comes up with something that helps the club instead of being one loan moan about what has happened in the past. While NCISA keeps suggesting ideas that hurt the club I will continue to post my personal opinions. We still dont know if NCISA favors boycotts?[/quote]

Why don''t you start an "OBJECTOR''S OF NCISA" thread? LQ might even contribute?

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="USAcanary"]What a surprise! Mr Tilson digs in his heels as predicted. He is knocking someone who is willing to put his own money into the club. His "you are entitled to that money" quote is totally bogus. The club is not stopping anyone from claiming the rebate. Its should be a 100% personal choice. If the ST holder chooses to help the club then Mr Foulger has pledged his own money alongside the fans. I love the way Mr Tilson slates Mr Foulger. Just brilliant, lets start slating one of the few people who is willing to put substantial sums of money into the club at a time when money is tight. Of course Mr Tilson would probably have slated him if he would have done nothing. I stand by my comments that some of Mr Tilsons/NCISA ideas are potentially dangerous to the future of our club. I think people need to know if Mr Tilson/NCISA favors "financial meltdown" as a way to remove the remaining 3 board members regardless of its effect on the club. Will boycotts be next?[/quote]

Do you think that NCISA are the Gestapo?

That they can check all season ticket holders post and bank accounts?

Whatever the view expressed by NCISA it can only be a recommendation it is and always will be AN INDIVIDUAL CHOICE.

Again NCISA represent a small number of the fan base, proberbly the largest independent supporters association but still in relationship to the overall support very small.

They express the views of the majority of their members and in the case if the meeting at St Andrews hall, some of the views expressed by those in attendence.

Tilsons views expressed to the EDP regarding the investment by Mr Foulger did reflect some peoples views,not all by a long way. What it did highlight was the subtle blackmail technique being used by the current,three person board.

The club obviously need as much cash as it can get, as does many of it''s supporters in this economic climate.

The choice/request for more of the fans money should be addressed to ALL fans, near and far, and as a donation the Mr Foulgers matching amount could be welcomed with open arms.

Putting an unfair pressure on those that have shown the most loyalty does, in my opinion, not reflect well on our family club.

If you think that Delia and the two Michaels realy give a hoot what NCISA and the fans think then you must have been asleep over the last thiteen years.

[/quote]

I actually agree with everything you have written........

The "emotional blackmail" is overdone.

Any incentive is a form of emotional blackmail.

When season ticket holders are offered a better price for early renewal thats a form of "emotional blackmail"

12 month interest free credit is another form of incentive.

Does NCISA object to the above two incentives?

I absolutely agree with your comments that NCISA''s views do represent a number of people.

Some of these people have posted in this thread that they favor financial meltdown as a way to remove the board.

Regardless of the effects on the club.

Its an emotional/dangerous stance.

THATS what I object to.

If you take that objection as personal support for the board then you are 100% wrong.

I will care about what happens to NCFC long after the current board is gone.

Owners come and go.

My question is.........

In the absence of any parties willing to buy the club wouldn''t it be better to concentrate our effort on things that will give us the best chance of getting back in the Championship.

[Pete Raven 276]

If it helps, the quotes from John Tilson were taken on Thursday morning, before the NICSA committee meeting.

[Time to go Delia 0]

No , now did you answer the question about how much you were going to donate to the teams needs ? because you seem pretty good at trying to spend other supporters money .

[LQ 0]

[quote user="Sports Desk - Pete"]If it helps, the quotes from John Tilson were taken on Thursday morning, before the NICSA committee meeting.[/quote]He was pretty confident that the rest of the NCISA committee wouldn''t be swayed by this astonishingly poor gesture* then eh?

*that was sarcastic in case no-one realised!

[gazzathegreat 0]

Purple Canary, yes we met last night and and an additional press statement, which will be released shortly, will answer your question and to give NCISA members and other fans the NCISA stance at the present moment in time.

If you want my views, in addition to John''s, I think they are on many additional threads to this one. A couple of the committee are on holiday at the moment, and others will be holidaying shortly, so you can appreciate it''s difficult to keep to a strict timescale on all of this.

In essence, the committee haven''t changed their views after discussing the Foulger letter. So there you have it. The voting was unanimous.

[The Butler 0]

[quote user="USAcanary"][quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="USAcanary"]What a surprise! Mr Tilson digs in his heels as predicted. He is knocking someone who is willing to put his own money into the club. His "you are entitled to that money" quote is totally bogus. The club is not stopping anyone from claiming the rebate. Its should be a 100% personal choice. If the ST holder chooses to help the club then Mr Foulger has pledged his own money alongside the fans. I love the way Mr Tilson slates Mr Foulger. Just brilliant, lets start slating one of the few people who is willing to put substantial sums of money into the club at a time when money is tight. Of course Mr Tilson would probably have slated him if he would have done nothing. I stand by my comments that some of Mr Tilsons/NCISA ideas are potentially dangerous to the future of our club. I think people need to know if Mr Tilson/NCISA favors "financial meltdown" as a way to remove the remaining 3 board members regardless of its effect on the club. Will boycotts be next?[/quote]

Do you think that NCISA are the Gestapo?

That they can check all season ticket holders post and bank accounts?

Whatever the view expressed by NCISA it can only be a recommendation it is and always will be AN INDIVIDUAL CHOICE.

Again NCISA represent a small number of the fan base, proberbly the largest independent supporters association but still in relationship to the overall support very small.

They express the views of the majority of their members and in the case if the meeting at St Andrews hall, some of the views expressed by those in attendence.

Tilsons views expressed to the EDP regarding the investment by Mr Foulger did reflect some peoples views,not all by a long way. What it did highlight was the subtle blackmail technique being used by the current,three person board.

The club obviously need as much cash as it can get, as does many of it''s supporters in this economic climate.

The choice/request for more of the fans money should be addressed to ALL fans, near and far, and as a donation the Mr Foulgers matching amount could be welcomed with open arms.

Putting an unfair pressure on those that have shown the most loyalty does, in my opinion, not reflect well on our family club.

If you think that Delia and the two Michaels realy give a hoot what NCISA and the fans think then you must have been asleep over the last thiteen years.

[/quote] I actually agree with everything you have written........ The "emotional blackmail" is overdone. Any incentive is a form of emotional blackmail. When season ticket holders are offered a better price for early renewal thats a form of "emotional blackmail" 12 month interest free credit is another form of incentive. Does NCISA object to the above two incentives? I absolutely agree with your comments that NCISA''s views do represent a number of people. Some of these people have posted in this thread that they favor financial meltdown as a way to remove the board. Regardless of the effects on the club. Its an emotional/dangerous stance. THATS what I object to. If you take that objection as personal support for the board then you are 100% wrong. I will care about what happens to NCFC long after the current board is gone. Owners come and go. My question is......... In the absence of any parties willing to buy the club wouldn''t it be better to concentrate our effort on things that will give us the best chance of getting back in the Championship.[/quote]

All things being equal I would normally agree. Infact had many an "argument" with friend Smudger along those lines.

The problem being how do you remove someone so entrenched.

Take the 1914-18 war (thats the 16-18 for you) if both sides had said lets sit tight and leave the armies in the trenches,not attack just wait,it would still have been going on[:D]

I can see no simple answer but what I can see is a club in decline as far as football is concerned and a very disenchanted fan base.

There is a greater feeling of helplessness around than there ever was during the Chase era. That is not healthy for for the future.

[ALWAYS LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE 0]

I am a member of  NCISA and i am discussed at the way Mr Tilson and his pals on the commitee are trying to sway people to claim their season ticket refunds all members should call a meeting to censor any more statements and there future behavior. Once again they are intent to stir things up at the football club at a time when we all need to pull together to get this club out of this league.Mr Tilson i will not claim my refund if fact i will sent a cheque for another 20% to help boost the transfer fund . Perhaps someone could reply to this to tell me what we have to do to call an extraordinary  meeting of NCISA to discusse Mr Tilson attitude towards our football club.