Do "The Board" think they are in any way to blame?

[SNAP 0]

Lots of posters on this site like to point fingers of blame for our mess in the general direction of “The Board”. But what does that really imply. The company has just five directors. Leavers in the past have not been replaced or, if they have they soon shuffled off back to the sub-prime marketplace. Delia &Michael are as one really. They come as a package. They live down in Suffolk and in London where their business interests lay. They have loaned the company money but is that money subject to guarantees, I wonder? Michael Foulger runs Banham Poultry and one assumes that must take up most of his time. Roger Munby runs a small marketing company in the city and one wonders how that is faring during these troubled economic times. That leaves Neil Doncaster the guy who was trying for the top job at the FA and one suspects has had one eye one the door marked “Exit” for some time now. The point I’m getting at is that relegation and even administration are not the end of the world or anything approaching it for these people. They can’t really be held accountable in their own minds because what is their experience of running a big and complex PLC that is on the point of financial meltdown if season ticket sales fail to materialise to continue to guarantee the bank borrowing? - well none actually. History will be kind to them. Blimey history even found a place on the Wall of Fame for Robert Chase so surely Delia will still be revered in some quarters in years to come.

Eight wins in thirty-odd games mostly under a supposedly experienced manager. Six more needed plus some draws from thirteen remaining games under a “City Legend” with no experience of much at all really.

Still think we will stay up? No, nor do I when I look at it sensibly – and I’ve been going since 1960 so I’ve seen a lot of good and bad times.

One small glimmer may come before March 15^th. I believe that’s the date before which clubs need to enter Administration to receive their ten points deduction this season rather than next. Maybe Charlton and Southampton will be tempted to fall on their swords before that date which leaves just one place available. But, hold on, hadn’t we all written them off anyway!

[gazzathegreat 0]

Snap, a very interesting perspective on the board and its make up. Okay then, shall we leave Munby and Doncaster out of the mix for a while. Both are paid employees who have invested a minimal amount and hold a handful of shares compared to Delia, Michaela and Mr Foulger.

Do they think they are to blame? I would say no, they don''t. They have admitted to mistakes (AGM) as well as press pieces, but they will then add in the way football is now, the money from Sky and the Premiership etc, etc.

This club has put in inadequate investment on the playing staff, compared to money spent on infrastructure. Over the past few years we have actually made profits, but continued to hear the tales of woe regarding having to cut our cloth accordingly and it not being in the club''s best interests to take risks.

For me (and this is just a personal opinion SNAP, their biggest mistake/error of judgement was going ill prepared into the Premiership. Fall out ever since. While since relegation things have not gone well on the pitch, money has been spent off it. Profits made on players sold and smaller and inadequate sums spent on replacements. Sell out crowds meaning secure investment sources banked before the season starts. How many players have walked through the doors of Colney prior to the season starting and how many have walked the other way?

To me SNAP the board have had adequate time to look for additional investment, doing it now and bleating about the economic downturn is a bit rich. Why not attract investment while in the Premiership? We suppose the board met every now and then to formulate plans, to appoint staff to run the business side. And also of course, the football side. The run on football managers in the past few years (and the pay offs disappearing with them) have taken huge chunks out of the resources which could have been used for players.

Do I think we will stay up? No, and when I look at it sensibly, still no. Just like you. I have been going since 1971, so like you have seen plenty of good and bad.

To me the question of accountability continues to rear its ugly head. When we have a couple who hold all the shares (or as good as) and call all the shots, democratic reasoning and opinions probably count for little. We just don''t know, but for me, five people on a board of directors just doesn''t sit comfortably with me.

The board members may collectively wish to go. But of course they cannot until there is someone to take up the reins. Who that might be we can all ponder, and for what price.

[......and Smith must score. 1,599]

What a great post by SNAP and reply from Gazza.

I would agree that our Board members live in a slightly deluded world not entirely divorced from that of the failed bankers of which we''ve heard so much of lately. As Elton John sang, " Sorry seems to be the hardest word....."

With the benefit of much expert coaching the bankers found saying sorry to be in their best interests when recently hauled before the Commons Select Committee but they still gave the impression of still believing they were in the right. To be fair they could claim with some justification that everyone was caught out by the speed at which events overtook them. Sadly I don''t think the Board of NCFC can similarly use this as an excuse for what has happened to our Club in recent years.

Perhaps the cause of our present woes goes back to that fateful day back in December 1994 when first choice goalie Bryan Gunn was injured at Nottingham Forest. The team were at the time well placed in the League and the previous majority shareholder, Robert Chase, believed our status was assured. Rather than invest in a seasoned campaigner that would probably have cemented that status took the cheap decision to fill the void with the inexperienced Andy Marshall. A fatal decision it turned out to be as the season turned to dust with relegation to what is now the Championship and the eventual upheaval and messy ousting of an unrepentant Chase.

Popular opinion declared that we must never again put ourselves in a similar position with a majority shareholder holding such power. Of course that is precisely what we did do with the intervention of Delia Smith and Michael Wynn-Jones, but, by virtue of an even greater shareholding, an even greater stranglehold on the Club. I don''t for one minute suggest that the current Board members are not fundamentally good people with the best interests of the Club at heart but they have made some very poor decisions indeed when it comes to running the playing side of NCFC. It''s going over old ground but the roots of our present malaise goes back to the failed '' prudence over ambition ''. If only we''d taken a bit of a gamble in that Premiership season on the playing field we would probably have not been in the mess we find ourselves in now. It could hardly have been worse but that little word '' sorry '' is deafening by it''s silence

The Board may bleat on about, " it''s how football finances are these days ", " just look at so-and-so they''re in more of a mess than we are ". Well I don''t really care about '' xxx Football Club '' I care about NCFC and it really pains me to see a very average club like Hull City splash out £5 million on Jimmy Bullard. Ah, the Board might retort, " He''s just gone into surgery for a knee injury ". Again I don''t care, injuries happen. No, what pains me is that '' little ol'' '' Hull have ambition, a word that seems to have flown the Boardroom at our Club many moons ago. 

As I said earlier '' sorry '' seems to be the hardest word . The nearest we''ve come to it from this Board was the indirect admission that by appointing Peter Grant they had taken us back two years. Not an apology of course but the nearest to one we''re ever likely to get....

Frankly I''m heartily sick of the way we''re limping along like a wounded animal with the Board powerless to do anything about it. I don''t want to hear Neil Doncaster squeal with delight that we''ll be getting another few thousand from the TV companies. I don''t want to hear that we''ll get a few more thousand if Joe Lewis goes on to play for England in 2011 or whenever.

I just want to enjoy watching Norwich City again.

  

[Hamster 0]

Really good thread guys

You all make some good points, in my opinion for the root cause of our current malaise you only need look so far as the board room, as pointed out above they mean well they''re just not very good at their job !, too many mistakes over the last 5years

If relegation as seems quite likely, does arrive this season (and if we do avoid it, with no change at the top we''ll only be here again in 12months time) then the position of our current board of directors is untenable

Untenable or not the big question remains is who will replace them ?

[grantroederdisaster 0]

The board know they have made huge mistakes and want to sell but like all human beings they aren''t going to freely admit their failings!

[astrodyne 0]

I think too many people look at the problem as stemming from the boards ''failure'' to stump up enough cash. That I feel is hogwash. They have stumped up plenty of cash (as said, probably complete with guarentees) - but used it like amatuers.

[I am a Banana 0]

[quote user="grantroederdisaster"]The board know they have made huge mistakes and want to sell but like all human beings they aren''t going to freely admit their failings![/quote]

 

cause they would!

[SNAP 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]For me (and this is just a personal opinion SNAP, their biggest mistake/error of judgement was going ill prepared into the Premiership. Fall out ever since. While since relegation things have not gone well on the pitch, money has been spent off it. [/quote]

I agree Gazza - but don''t you think that promotion caught everyone by surprise. None more so than the board. Worthington had no idea of which players to bring in to keep us up and I''m willing to bet his player budget wasn''t significantly increased even if he did have a clue (ie Ashton). Money to invest in the team was, allegedly, only made available when someone lent the money to the club. This was, again allegedly, someone who had no interest in football but wanted his money back and a share of the profits when the player was sold on. Hence the Ashton money all but disappeared never to be seen again.

Delia, Michael et al were like rabbits in the headlights in the Premiership and almost apologising for taking up a place for a season. Result, as you say, downward decline ever since. Promotion was the worst thing that everr happened to this club. It left a huge gap between the expctations of supporters and the board.

[SNAP 0]

[quote user="Hamster"]

....... you only need look so far as the board room, as pointed out above they mean well they''re just not very good at their job !, too many mistakes over the last 5years

[/quote]

Good point Hamster - isn''t it sad that we are all of the opinion that the club is being run by a bunch of well meaning amateurs whose days are long past. Equally sad is the fact that, whether we stay up or go down will make little or no difference to that fact. Investors and going to be no more interested in a bottom half Championship side than they are a top of League One side. The only difference will be that when the results are announced on Radio Five Live they won''t say who the goalscorers were if we are League One.

[gazzathegreat 0]

SNAP, to be honest no, promotion didn''t catch everyone by surprise, we were top of the league by Christmas (wasn''t it lovely at Portman Road) and were set for promotion therefore for months. Enough time for anyone with decisions to make to get their heads around it.

Given there was guaranteed money for those promoted it can''t have been too hard for a realistic budget to have been put forward. There are many tales of Worthington bidding for players and being refused.

If Delia and co felt unable to cope with the responsibility of being promoted and playing and working in the Premiership why didn''t they go out and look for additional board members/investment then?

As for expectations, mine were set during the 70s and 80s and reinforced for most of the 90s. They are not going to change now, despite the mess the club is in now.

Promotion was a disaster for this club with the personnel in charge at the top. Enough said.

[SNAP 0]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]SNAP, to be honest no, promotion didn''t catch everyone by surprise, we were top of the league by Christmas (wasn''t it lovely at Portman Road) and were set for promotion therefore for months. Enough time for anyone with decisions to make to get their heads around it. Given there was guaranteed money for those promoted it can''t have been too hard for a realistic budget to have been put forward. There are many tales of Worthington bidding for players and being refused. If Delia and co felt unable to cope with the responsibility of being promoted and playing and working in the Premiership why didn''t they go out and look for additional board members/investment then? As for expectations, mine were set during the 70s and 80s and reinforced for most of the 90s. They are not going to change now, despite the mess the club is in now. Promotion was a disaster for this club with the personnel in charge at the top. Enough said.[/quote]

Even when we went top (and yes it was one of the best times ever) I don''t think Delia and Co really believed it would happen. Before the end of that promotion season ND was proud to tell anyone who would listen how prudent we would be and how we would be following the Charlton model. The budgets were set for an immediate return to The Championship and became a self-fulfilling prophesy. Like you my expectations were set in the 70''s and 80''s sadly the board had their se by the almighty scare that they all had when Uncle Bob nearly brought the house down and Sir Geoffrey had to ride to the rescue. Since then they have been scared of speculating to accumulate and ham-strung by a rolled up bank deal the like of which brought Ipswich, Leeds and Leicester to their knees and will do the same to us if Season Ticket revenue falls below current levels and they are unable to meet the banks pre-set conditions.

So we are back where we started - a PLC run by amateurs and advised by people with a different agenda I suspect.

[whoareyou? 0]

Of course the board are to blame. They have appointed the managers who have failed, which in their case has been all of them bar Worthington and even he outstayed his welcome by a long time!

[nutty nigel 7,902]

To be fair we didn''t make a bad fist of our Premiership season. OK we got relegated, but pracically every year now two of the promoted teams get relegated. We started the last game outside the bottom three with our future in our own hands. We blew it big style at Fulham but that''s no reason to rewrite that whole season. It seems the only criticism that really sticks to the board is that they are not the people we need to be running our club. I can see that, but unfortunately they are the ones who are prepared to do it.

 

[|BA 0]

[quote user="whoareyou"]Of course the board are to blame. They have appointed the managers who have failed, which in their case has been all of them bar Worthington and even he outstayed his welcome by a long time![/quote]They appoint who we can afford and who is willing to come. Why is that their ''fault''. To me they make the best of a shitty job. I think they''ve done fantastically well.We get 25,000 every week, seems the moaners are in the minority, if its as bad as you suggest, go shopping.

[whoareyou? 0]

[quote user="IBA"][quote user="whoareyou"]Of course the board are to blame. They have appointed the managers who have failed, which in their case has been all of them bar Worthington and even he outstayed his welcome by a long time![/quote]

They appoint who we can afford and who is willing to come. Why is that their ''fault''. To me they make the best of a shitty job. I think they''ve done fantastically well.

We get 25,000 every week, seems the moaners are in the minority, if its as bad as you suggest, go shopping.
[/quote]

Absolute rubbish, they appoint who they feel can do the best job and every timne bar Worthington they have got it wrong. In other words they have little idea what makes a good football manager!

So you think doing ''fantastically well'' is being relegated to League One and from their who knows where?

I''d rather have 15,000 fans a week and a winning team than 25,000 fans and a team of losers, half of which fans who would not know a good team if it bit them on the arse!

I''m sure that extra 10,000 probably just go to Carrow Road every other week for a ''lovely'' afternoon out so they can drink tea, have a Kit Kat and talk about what they have been doing for the last fortnight!

[|BA 0]

[quote user="whoareyou"]

Absolute rubbish, they appoint who they feel can do the best job doing for the last fortnight!

[/quote]Its not rubbish. They appoint who we can afford and who is willing to come. Explain how they can do otherwise? Grant could have been a genius appointment, who was to know. If the board had appointed him KNOWING that he was going to be a disaster then they''d also be making millins from lottery tickets. Grant was seen as a coup within the football world. he screwed it up because he bottled it.. How is that the boards fault? Most people wanted Jewell. He also screwed Derby - who was to know?Whats wrong with a kit kat and a cup of tea once a week? At least the older and or quiet  fans are putting money into the club.They''ve done a great job because against the odds they''ve restricted our debt, kept the ground full, provided facilities second to none and appointed the best people they could. THOSE people got it wrong. I saw no protests when Grant was appointed, not Roeder (quite the contrary in Roeders case). yet all the hindsight warriors are now out claiming it was always obvious we were doomed to failure. Roeder kept us up last year, another manager may have taken us down. Who''s to know?

[GMF 1,010]

Interesting post and some good replies.

I think one thing that is often over looked is that the directors, with the exception of ND, are non executive directors. They''re involved with the approval of budgets and bunging in a loan here and there, but they''re not involved with the day to day running of the club, and, given their business backgrounds, would you really want them involved?

No, the real authority rests with ND himself as CEO, but the equivalent of the Chief Operating Officer is the football manager and here is where most money has been wasted. 

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

To be fair we didn''t make a bad fist of our Premiership season. OK we got relegated, but pracically every year now two of the promoted teams get relegated. We started the last game outside the bottom three with our future in our own hands. We blew it big style at Fulham but that''s no reason to rewrite that whole season. It seems the only criticism that really sticks to the board is that they are not the people we need to be running our club. I can see that, but unfortunately they are the ones who are prepared to do it.

[/quote]

This is a good point, which I think gets lost on quite a few people on this forum.

People can moan, yell, protest all we like. Until someone wants to come and do the job, this board is all we have.

IMO the biggest mistake the board made was not restructuring themselves when we were in the Premiership in order to get more experienced non-executive decision makers with premiership experience. If they had have been honest, realised they were probably slightly out of their depth, and got some people in that had been there before, we could be in a totally different place right now.

 

[yellow hammer 131]

There are three things required to run a successful project.

1. Aptitude. That is to say that the skills, experience and knowledge to do the job are present. I think that the weight of evidence is that DS and MJW never had the right aptitude for running a football club. At the outset they appointed Bob Cooper from Sainsburys as Chairman, which I think was to address the need to fix the financial and administrative side of the club. He did this and moved on. At the time he was criticized for not having football related skills but at the time we were facing bankruptcy and the priority was to keep us financially solvent. When Cooper left the Club, DS should have appointed someone to the board with football experience to provide a link between the football management and the executive. A few years ago, I made a long post about the need for a Director of Football, because it was clear to me , at least, that there was a severe skills shortage at board level in how to manage a football club. In the event DS and MJW left far too much control of the football side to the manager without ever taking a long-term view of the football side. The only long-term vision they had was in the area they felt most comfortable with, building up the non-football side of the club and getting involved in property investment. Appointing the Turners further concentrated their minds on the financial management of the club. The Turners remit was to cut costs and looking for financial savings. No one was looking out for the football side. A manager was appointed and he was left to do whatever he wanted. Roeder took full advantage of this to experiment with the loan system of building a team. Did anyone on the board ask Roeder whether his loan-model had ever succeeded at another club? We will never know.

2. Attitude. Success requires motivation, focus, passion to succeed. It is quite possible to have all the skills to do a job but if one is, say, bored, then the job will not be done properly. A leader’s job is to get the right attitude as this often makes the difference between success and failure, especially in a sporting context where aptitude may be very similar between rivals. DS and MWJ have attitude in bucketloads. It is their greatest strength. Nobody can doubt Delia’s commitment and passion for NCFC. In fact, I think it was passion and desire for success that drilled City from a failing club into the Premiership over a very short period of time. We actually ran away with the Championship title that year because the players believed they were unbeatable, especially at Carrow Road. Their attitude was spot on. And it is leaders who generate good attitude. Part of that good attitude has to be attributed to DS and MJW, and partly to leaders on the field, players such as Iwan Roberts and Malky Mackay. Then once we made it to the Prem we actually dumped the guys that every player looked up to and just never replaced them with equivalents. Instead we ended up with football’s mercenaries and carpet baggers. We lost the attitude within the team and only ever saw it in glimpses in players like Dion Dublin and Darren Huckerby. Once the right attitude was lost on the pitch it started to go off the pitch as well. The backroom staff and office staff started to resign or were sacked, not because they weren’t good enough, but because the good feeling had long gone.

3. Resources. This is both money and time. If you don’t have the resources you can’t build a successful project. For sure, NCFC doesn’t have enough money. We don’t have a rich sugar daddy, and whether or not there was a rich benefactor a year ago is only of historical interest because in today’s macro economic climate a billionaire investor is about as likely as snow falling on Abu Dhabi. But over the past twelve years one of the biggest mistakes was failing to seek long-term investment in the Club. The Turners two million was a joke, it barely covered the close season cash flow requirements and probably side-tracked the board into thinking that our financial problems had gone away. Another grievous mistake was in not realizing that the income generated from being in the Prem, in the region of 30-50 mill per annum, far outweighs any income that can possibly generated by off-field activities. There’s not a hope in hell than merchandising, restaurants, affinity cards or serving tap water at boardroom meetings is going to generate 30 million cash per year. Being in the top league guarantees it. But it requires onfield investment to get there and stay there. Yes, there will be a lot of write-off of onfield investment, It shouldn’t come as a surprise that football is a huge risk. But a Director of Football would help to minimize the risk. We are after all football club first and foremost and not merely a nice day out in the city for gentlefolk, I think.

A little bit of luck never goes amiss but since it is out of our control we should dismiss it’s value but hope we get our share.

Many projects have sufficient aptitude and resources but fail because the attitude is not there. Walk down a bookstore with a shelf on Business and you’ll find nearly every book is on the subject of how to develop the right attitude. Our problem is that our board has little aptitude and even less resources in running a football club yet have enthusiasm and passion bursting out of their ears. And too many posters on the Pinkun mistake attitude for aptitude, thinking because they care so much for the club then they are the best people to be in charge of the club. If only that were the case and if only we could live on being “the greatest fans in the world” we would now be top of the Premiership. Even today’s rallying call from Doncaster appealing to our “community spirit” is all part of lifting up our attitude. Sadly, and very sadly, it simply is not enough apart from a short term panacea,if we don’t have the right aptitude and resources running through the club we will never break out of our downward spiral.

Let’s assume with one massive, collective push we manage to scrape home to safety and avoid relegation. Then what? Who thinks it won’t start all over again next season? Unless we fix the underlying causes of our long-term failure eventually we will run out of luck.

[gazzathegreat 0]

IBA, some interesting arguments against the tide, but I wonder about one of them. Have the board restricted the debt? I am no accountant, but it seems the debt grows every year. While we have had several profitable years at NCFC, spending on non essential items such as the much maligned land (and spending on a road etc to comply with planning permission) seems to me to not be in the best interests of the club. What about speculating and investing in the most important aspects, ie the players? We have sold big and bought small. Year on year and we are exactly where we are due to that.

If you think the board have done a great job, I suggest you are very easily pleased. I don''t consider a second season of staring the third division in the face doing a great job. Far from it. It''s not just the appointment of managers is it, the whole damn business plan of this board is in need of a rewrite.

[whoareyou? 0]

[quote user="IBA"][quote user="whoareyou"]

Absolute rubbish, they appoint who they feel can do the best job doing for the last fortnight!

[/quote]

Its not rubbish. They appoint who we can afford and who is willing to come. Explain how they can do otherwise? Grant could have been a genius appointment, who was to know. If the board had appointed him KNOWING that he was going to be a disaster then they''d also be making millins from lottery tickets. Grant was seen as a coup within the football world. he screwed it up because he bottled it.. How is that the boards fault? Most people wanted Jewell. He also screwed Derby - who was to know?

Whats wrong with a kit kat and a cup of tea once a week? At least the older and or quiet  fans are putting money into the club.

They''ve done a great job because against the odds they''ve restricted our debt, kept the ground full, provided facilities second to none and appointed the best people they could. THOSE people got it wrong. I saw no protests when Grant was appointed, not Roeder (quite the contrary in Roeders case). yet all the hindsight warriors are now out claiming it was always obvious we were doomed to failure. Roeder kept us up last year, another manager may have taken us down. Who''s to know?


[/quote]

 

So you feel they board should take no responsibility for their managerial appointments, even though they get it wrong time and time again!

And as a result we are staring League One in the face yet again...and possibly going into administration with it?

After 40 odd years of supporting City, the board just make it harder and harder to justify me spending/(wasting?) my money in going to watch the rubbish they serve up. I don''t want to come away from a match feeling i''ve been cheated out of my money yet again but that is how i have felt for probably 7 or 8 years out of the 12 or so the current board have been in charge! I go to be entertained! They push the support of the club to the very limit with the amateurish, stupid decisions they make!

 

[Mr.Carrow 394]

[quote user="IBA"][quote user="whoareyou"]

Absolute rubbish, they appoint who they feel can do the best job doing for the last fortnight!

[/quote]

Its not rubbish. They appoint who we can afford and who is willing to come. Explain how they can do otherwise? Grant could have been a genius appointment, who was to know. If the board had appointed him KNOWING that he was going to be a disaster then they''d also be making millins from lottery tickets. Grant was seen as a coup within the football world. he screwed it up because he bottled it.. How is that the boards fault? Most people wanted Jewell. He also screwed Derby - who was to know?

Whats wrong with a kit kat and a cup of tea once a week? At least the older and or quiet  fans are putting money into the club.

They''ve done a great job because against the odds they''ve restricted our debt, kept the ground full, provided facilities second to none and appointed the best people they could. THOSE people got it wrong. I saw no protests when Grant was appointed, not Roeder (quite the contrary in Roeders case). yet all the hindsight warriors are now out claiming it was always obvious we were doomed to failure. Roeder kept us up last year, another manager may have taken us down. Who''s to know?


[/quote]

So according to your "logic" Leeds fans should forgive Ridsdale?  After all, getting £100m in debt might have worked and Leeds might now be the biggest club in the world- who was to know hey?!  No-one has ever suggested that D and M knew their decisions would turn out badly, but after a while a pattern emerges and i`m afraid it doesn`t look good.  The admitted "obsession" with off-pitch development which has crippled the playing budget and a lack of footballing nous in appointing managers have brought the club to the brink of its lowest position in 40 years and the buck stops clearly at the top.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

If the mistakes are as easy to identify as you critics point out on here, and if the right way to run a football club was as easy to do as you suggest then I wonder why :

• The Board haven''t worked that out for themselves
• Some one else hasn''t bought them out and put it right themselves

After all the rewards of owning a thriving Premiership club would far out weigh the initial cost. Some one with a few quid needs to get in quick before the rest of the football league come on here and unearth the secrets to  eternal success.

 

 

[whoareyou? 0]

The board haven''t worked it out because they lack the know-how to have a succesful team, they lack the intelligence to do so and no one has bought them out and done otherwise beacuse they seemingly have no intention of selling up. When someone became interested they found a thousand reasons not to talk to him and when the Turners showed an interest, it appears their opinions for the future differed enough for the Turners not to want to be a part of it

I''m just absolutley astonished that supporters just accept our lot as a p*ss poor football team. I have no doubt that if we carry on with the current owners and CE then we will struggle in League One as well, because team investment is so low on their list of priorites.

[yellow hammer 131]

The board haven''t worked it out because they lack the know-how to have a succesful team, they lack the intelligence to do so and no one has bought them out and done otherwise beacuse they seemingly have no intention of selling up. When someone became interested they found a thousand reasons not to talk to him and when the Turners showed an interest, it appears their opinions for the future differed enough for the Turners not to want to be a part of it

I''m just absolutley astonished that supporters just accept our lot as a p*ss poor football team. I have no doubt that if we carry on with the current owners and CE then we will struggle in League One as well, because team investment is so low on their list of priorites.

Exactly my sentiments.

[Spartan 0]

most of these posts are spot on; we have a good natured cosy little board who have absolutely lost touch with reality and must take full responsibility for our current demise; they won''t though!!!!

[ROBFLECK 134]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]

What a great post by SNAP and reply from Gazza.

I would agree that our Board members live in a slightly deluded world not entirely divorced from that of the failed bankers of which we''ve heard so much of lately. As Elton John sang, " Sorry seems to be the hardest word....."

With the benefit of much expert coaching the bankers found saying sorry to be in their best interests when recently hauled before the Commons Select Committee but they still gave the impression of still believing they were in the right. To be fair they could claim with some justification that everyone was caught out by the speed at which events overtook them. Sadly I don''t think the Board of NCFC can similarly use this as an excuse for what has happened to our Club in recent years.

Perhaps the cause of our present woes goes back to that fateful day back in December 1994 when first choice goalie Bryan Gunn was injured at Nottingham Forest. The team were at the time well placed in the League and the previous majority shareholder, Robert Chase, believed our status was assured. Rather than invest in a seasoned campaigner that would probably have cemented that status took the cheap decision to fill the void with the inexperienced Andy Marshall. A fatal decision it turned out to be as the season turned to dust with relegation to what is now the Championship and the eventual upheaval and messy ousting of an unrepentant Chase.

Popular opinion declared that we must never again put ourselves in a similar position with a majority shareholder holding such power. Of course that is precisely what we did do with the intervention of Delia Smith and Michael Wynn-Jones, but, by virtue of an even greater shareholding, an even greater stranglehold on the Club. I don''t for one minute suggest that the current Board members are not fundamentally good people with the best interests of the Club at heart but they have made some very poor decisions indeed when it comes to running the playing side of NCFC. It''s going over old ground but the roots of our present malaise goes back to the failed '' prudence over ambition ''. If only we''d taken a bit of a gamble in that Premiership season on the playing field we would probably have not been in the mess we find ourselves in now. It could hardly have been worse but that little word '' sorry '' is deafening by it''s silence

The Board may bleat on about, " it''s how football finances are these days ", " just look at so-and-so they''re in more of a mess than we are ". Well I don''t really care about '' xxx Football Club '' I care about NCFC and it really pains me to see a very average club like Hull City splash out £5 million on Jimmy Bullard. Ah, the Board might retort, " He''s just gone into surgery for a knee injury ". Again I don''t care, injuries happen. No, what pains me is that '' little ol'' '' Hull have ambition, a word that seems to have flown the Boardroom at our Club many moons ago. 

As I said earlier '' sorry '' seems to be the hardest word . The nearest we''ve come to it from this Board was the indirect admission that by appointing Peter Grant they had taken us back two years. Not an apology of course but the nearest to one we''re ever likely to get....

Frankly I''m heartily sick of the way we''re limping along like a wounded animal with the Board powerless to do anything about it. I don''t want to hear Neil Doncaster squeal with delight that we''ll be getting another few thousand from the TV companies. I don''t want to hear that we''ll get a few more thousand if Joe Lewis goes on to play for England in 2011 or whenever.

I just want to enjoy watching Norwich City again.

  Great Post ...Asms, I completely find myself in what you are saying, I too...

JUST WANT TO ENJOY WATCHING, FOLLOWING NORWICH CITY FC AGAIN!

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[|BA 0]

The criticism of off pitch spending again raises its head with little consideration to reality. The off pitch spending does several things, enhansing fixed assets and  raising profile are both extremely worthwhile long term and was made possible by the banks allowing the money to be used in such a way.Do me a favour, go see your bank and say you''d like two loans. One to build an extension onto your house, and another to buy Andy Hughes back from Leeds.In this climate you''ll be doing well to get either, but one will barely get you a chuckle.Its not as easy as just spending the money. Sometimes there are influences outside of decisions born of the heartAs for Buying cheap and selling high (which generally I''d dispute, we seem to ''release'' far too many players IMO), what would you rather we do, Buy high sell cheap? No. So therefore what the board do is at the very least good business in those circumstancesFace it. if all clubs could be run with the simplistic passion generated by us fans, we''d all be joint top. Sadly its not that easyThe Ridsdale point is mute. It was a gamble and we all knew it at the time. Its the sort of gamble that Cullum would make. No thanks

[Mr.Carrow 394]

You are lacking joined-up thinking IMO IBA.  I`m well aware that the board haven`t been trying to deliberately fritter money away and i`m sure most of the off-pitch projects will give SOME benefit to the club at some point in the future, but you have to balance that against the damage done by allocating money away from the pitch in the first place. 

Chase`s obsession with land and bricks and mortar lead us to 9 years in the second division after the best part of 20 in the first.  The eventual profit on the land he bought gave the club a timely boost and helped us get back where we were in the first place.  Now the same obsession could well see us ensconsed in the (old) third division and the best we can hope for from the expensive off-pitch projects is that they eventually give us a boost to try to get back to the level we were before they were instigated.  Great.

Allocating millions to be spent on infrastructure is a gamble just like Ridsdales and some of us have been saying as much for years, and it hasn`t worked has it?

[whoareyou? 0]

[quote user="IBA"]The criticism of off pitch spending again raises its head with little consideration to reality. The off pitch spending does several things, enhansing fixed assets and  raising profile are both extremely worthwhile long term and was made possible by the banks allowing the money to be used in such a way.

Do me a favour, go see your bank and say you''d like two loans. One to build an extension onto your house, and another to buy Andy Hughes back from Leeds.
In this climate you''ll be doing well to get either, but one will barely get you a chuckle.

Its not as easy as just spending the money. Sometimes there are influences outside of decisions born of the heart

As for Buying cheap and selling high (which generally I''d dispute, we seem to ''release'' far too many players IMO), what would you rather we do, Buy high sell cheap? No. So therefore what the board do is at the very least good business in those circumstances

Face it. if all clubs could be run with the simplistic passion generated by us fans, we''d all be joint top. Sadly its not that easy
The Ridsdale point is mute. It was a gamble and we all knew it at the time. Its the sort of gamble that Cullum would make. No thanks

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You seem to disregard the fact that everyone penny spent on loan and capital repayment could have been on investment on the team.

Only last December the club had to reapy £2million in loan repayments. Just think if we had been able to spend that on the team instaed! And according to the last accounts there is another £2.8 million of loan repaymenst to be made in the year to May 2009.

So a small sum of £5million spent on assets other than the team. No wonder we are heading for League One!