Why Outers can never lose

[blahblahblah 2]

I have to hand it to whoever came up with the idea of the Outer movement, as a marketing trick, it''s very clever.  You boys can go on forever, and can never lose, because if the manager''s job isn''t under threat, the team must be doing well, right ?

When we start to do well, most of you can just disintegrate into the fan base like you were never anything other than a fan with the clubs'' best interests at heart, all the time dropping a drip feed of negativity into peoples'' heads via message boards and "news sites" like Vital football. 

If we have a bad run of form, you can wait until the next televised match and then come out with all guns blazing.  Placquards, banners, slogans and names to be made for the next time we start to win, making media hay while the sun shines.  Once you''ve captured your images from local news and recorded your soundbites in mp3s to bring in future converts, glorifying the hatred of the manager of the club you claim to love, the club whose interests you claim to serve, you either get what you want this time, or wait for the next bad run of form, and the next televised game.

The best bit about all of this is that it''s universal, and can be done for any manager !  Ok, so it''s Worthington now, but if he goes, how long before you give the next manager the thumbs down ?  And the next ??? 

You get to shunt directors into issuing ultimatums, and if things go badly, possibly even force the club into sacking the manager, without having to do any of the tricky things like actually run the club, or give the club millions of pounds of your own money in loans.  Sure these things aren''t actually your decisions, but you can claim vindication when the inevitable happens, as very few managers retire from a club, they are usually fired.  "It was the fan pressure that sent him packing" is a phrase I expect to get used to if we have a bad couple of weeks on the pitch.

Not only this, you can sell your T-shirts carrying your message for your cult, accept "donations" for your campaign using paypal (it''s ok, they must be a charity), and even sell advertising on places like WorthyOut and Vital Football where you tell people how the club is in turmoil this week, and in the case of WorthyOut, give you a nice safe place to hate the manager with people of a like mind.

Like I say, I take my hat off too you. 

Hatred as a product, who''d have thought ?

[USAcanary 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

I have to hand it to whoever came up with the idea of the Outer movement, as a marketing trick, it''s very clever.  You boys can go on forever, and can never lose, because if the manager''s job isn''t under threat, the team must be doing well, right ?

When we start to do well, most of you can just disintegrate into the fan base like you were never anything other than a fan with the clubs'' best interests at heart, all the time dropping a drip feed of negativity into peoples'' heads via message boards and "news sites" like Vital football. 

If we have a bad run of form, you can wait until the next televised match and then come out with all guns blazing.  Placquards, banners, slogans and names to be made for the next time we start to win, making media hay while the sun shines.  Once you''ve captured your images from local news and recorded your soundbites in mp3s to bring in future converts, glorifying the hatred of the manager of the club you claim to love, the club whose interests you claim to serve, you either get what you want this time, or wait for the next bad run of form, and the next televised game.

The best bit about all of this is that it''s universal, and can be done for any manager !  Ok, so it''s Worthington now, but if he goes, how long before you give the next manager the thumbs down ?  And the next ??? 

You get to shunt directors into issuing ultimatums, and if things go badly, possibly even force the club into sacking the manager, without having to do any of the tricky things like actually run the club, or give the club millions of pounds of your own money in loans.  Sure these things aren''t actually your decisions, but you can claim vindication when the inevitable happens, as very few managers retire from a club, they are usually fired.  "It was the fan pressure that sent him packing" is a phrase I expect to get used to if we have a bad couple of weeks on the pitch.

Not only this, you can sell your T-shirts carrying your message for your cult, accept "donations" for your campaign using paypal (it''s ok, they must be a charity), and even sell advertising on places like WorthyOut and Vital Football where you tell people how the club is in turmoil this week, and in the case of WorthyOut, give you a nice safe place to hate the manager with people of a like mind.

Like I say, I take my hat off too you. 

Hatred as a product, who''d have thought ?

[/quote]

You Sir, are the one selling hatred.

Your post is a vile/hate filled attack on loyal Norwich supporters becasue they strongly believe that the manager is bringing this club to its knees.

Your posts are getting more and more hateful, you only care about Worthy and not the future of this club.

I am now certain that after he is sacked you will no longer be posting here.

 

[morty 0]

Excellent post mate, though don''t expect acceptance and understanding from the angry mob, quite the opposite I''d suspect! I am completely sick of the whole "WO" and "KTF" in fact I was sick of it about 6 months ago, people jockeying for position "No I care about the club more than you do, No I do" etc, repeat till bored. 

What will these people do when the manager is sacked, who will they direct their anger at then? I suspect the board for the appointment of the new manager, and then of course, the new manager himself when he loses his first game, though the name Curbishley( I so wish) doesn''t fit into the chants as well as Worthy. 

I was on the fence problably leaning toward KTF, but I accept the fact that the managers time is quite likely up, however I feel no need whatsoever to ruin peoples enjoyment of a match day by bellowing about it outside the club, damaging the image we have of being a well run, well supported family club. 

[gazzathegreat 0]

Hatred, of a person, no.  Frustration yes.

It''s not as if he''s not been given a long, long, long time to get things right is it Blah?  Six years he''s been here.  Some of the time we''ve tasted success, but for most of it, it''s been decidely average fare.

Can you remember the protests the season we finished 8th?  No.  We had a disappointing season following on from the play offs... Next season, bingo we were promoted.  It''s then the whole thing really went downhill.

I don''t think I have ever hated anyone in my life, and certainly not someone I don''t personally know.  What I hate is indecision, apathy..... and the board has shown plenty of that.  Too much for it''s own good. 

I think the WorthyOut campaign have been restrained in their efforts. No campaigning organisation gets everything right, agreed, and the prospect of being on TV is undoubtedly going to attract people along who have no real issue with the protests, but hatred towards a person, no.  It''s frustration against an inept manager, a board of directors who won''t see what''s really going on on the pitch...

We love the club, all of us, it''s just some of us don''t think it''s at it''s best.  I am sure even you Blah think we are underachieving against  the likes of Southend, Derby, Palace, Plymouth....or are you happy with both results and performance.  They are just typical examples of many other games under Worthington''s reign.  We''ve had some good times, but also some not so good.  He''s stale, and if a manager cannot induce passion and commitment in his playing staff then he should go.

If you are so pro Worthington, may I suggest you start up a campaign to keep him in his post? 

[Jim Smith 2,610]

What a load of utter rubbish.

 

The only reason the vast majority of people are calling for Worthington to go is because they care deeply about the fortunes of their football club and can see it falling apart in front of their eyes. Simple as that!

 

You are just resorting to insults because you can see the end is nigh for your golden boy Mr Worthington!

[charlies dad 0]

Or everyone could just sit on their arse, accepting crap on the pitch, paying in some cases thousands of pounds, and enjoying the mocking laughter of each and every set of opposition supporters, while the board bakes a cake.

[JC 0]

The vast majority of the 24000 people who visit carrow road each week can now see that the team under Nigel Worthington is not working.  Find me anyone other than you who claims things do not warrant change?

Your outbursts are now getting longer, more frequent and more desperate.  You are this boards very own metaphor for Mr Wothington himself.

Hopefully when he goes you will shut up as well.

 

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

I have to hand it to whoever came up with the idea of the Outer movement, as a marketing trick, it''s very clever.  You boys can go on forever, and can never lose, because if the manager''s job isn''t under threat, the team must be doing well, right ?

When we start to do well, most of you can just disintegrate into the fan base like you were never anything other than a fan with the clubs'' best interests at heart, all the time dropping a drip feed of negativity into peoples'' heads via message boards and "news sites" like Vital football. 

If we have a bad run of form, you can wait until the next televised match and then come out with all guns blazing.  Placquards, banners, slogans and names to be made for the next time we start to win, making media hay while the sun shines.  Once you''ve captured your images from local news and recorded your soundbites in mp3s to bring in future converts, glorifying the hatred of the manager of the club you claim to love, the club whose interests you claim to serve, you either get what you want this time, or wait for the next bad run of form, and the next televised game.

The best bit about all of this is that it''s universal, and can be done for any manager !  Ok, so it''s Worthington now, but if he goes, how long before you give the next manager the thumbs down ?  And the next ??? 

You get to shunt directors into issuing ultimatums, and if things go badly, possibly even force the club into sacking the manager, without having to do any of the tricky things like actually run the club, or give the club millions of pounds of your own money in loans.  Sure these things aren''t actually your decisions, but you can claim vindication when the inevitable happens, as very few managers retire from a club, they are usually fired.  "It was the fan pressure that sent him packing" is a phrase I expect to get used to if we have a bad couple of weeks on the pitch.

Not only this, you can sell your T-shirts carrying your message for your cult, accept "donations" for your campaign using paypal (it''s ok, they must be a charity), and even sell advertising on places like WorthyOut and Vital Football where you tell people how the club is in turmoil this week, and in the case of WorthyOut, give you a nice safe place to hate the manager with people of a like mind.

Like I say, I take my hat off too you. 

Hatred as a product, who''d have thought ?

[/quote]

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

14th position... almost 100 games of failure

WHAT DO YOU BLOODY EXPECT!! [8o|]

[Dicky 0]

 

You Sir, are the one selling hatred.

Your post is a vile/hate filled attack on loyal Norwich supporters becasue they strongly believe that the manager is bringing this club to its knees.

Your posts are getting more and more hateful, you only care about Worthy and not the future of this club.

I am now certain that after he is sacked you will no longer be posting here.

 

 

"Your post is a vile/hate filled attack" - straight out of the mouth of George Bush.  As for not posting IF Worthy is sacked, us loyal supporters support our team - listen to how quiet the whingers and moaners like yourself go with nothing to moan about. 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]We love the club, all of us, it''s just some of us don''t think it''s at it''s best.  I am sure even you Blah think we are underachieving against  the likes of Southend, Derby, Palace, Plymouth....or are you happy with both results and performance.  [/quote]

I actually think that Derby have the potential to be top 6 this season.  Palace also.  Southend and Plymouth are where the problems lie, and represent two ends of the spectrum.  You are right, and my opinion is that he should either be fired according to the terms of his contract, or backed by the board to get through a difficult spell.  Anything else leads to more frustration and bigger protests.

[quote]If you are so pro Worthington, may I suggest you start up a campaign to keep him in his post?  [/quote]

"The one thing you can be sure of as a football manager is the sack" - Ken Brown.  The other reason why Outers cannot lose.

 

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Or everyone could just sit on their arse, accepting crap on the pitch, paying in some cases thousands of pounds, and enjoying the mocking laughter of each and every set of opposition supporters, while the board bakes a cake. [/quote]

What makes you think that the board will get it right next time ?  Will they back the new manager financially to give him the quality in depth we need to challenge ?  Or is the money simply not there, bearing in mind the millions they''ve already pumped into the club and increasing levels of debt ?  Maybe we need to adjust our expectations according to the financial muscle we have in this league, and bring younger players through.  But that''s for another day, I guess, we''ve got pitchforks and torches on Sunday to look forward to.

[nolegs 0]

Sheer drivel BBB,if you are happy to pay and consistantly be dissapointed and frustrated by Norwich,then you truly due have the patience of Job ,or you are a fool.

[KidCanary 0]

Guys he''s not debating here whether or not the manager should go, he''s debating fans dissatisfaction, the justification there of and the manner with which they display it.  My worry is that with each future manager its going to take less and less to go wrong before people start calling for his head.

[morty 0]

There are a lot of very angry people here that need to get their lives in perspective.

[Marty 0]

[quote user="Dicky"]

 

You Sir, are the one selling hatred.

Your post is a vile/hate filled attack on loyal Norwich supporters becasue they strongly believe that the manager is bringing this club to its knees.

Your posts are getting more and more hateful, you only care about Worthy and not the future of this club.

I am now certain that after he is sacked you will no longer be posting here.

 

 

"Your post is a vile/hate filled attack" - straight out of the mouth of George Bush.  As for not posting IF Worthy is sacked, us loyal supporters support our team - listen to how quiet the whingers and moaners like yourself go with nothing to moan about. 

[/quote]

 

I must have read a different thread then, I didn''t read what I would describe as vile/hate filled attack! I think some people miss interpreted what was said here. There seems a hell of a lot more venon in your reply to someones well thought out view point.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="KidCanary"]Guys he''s not debating here whether or not the manager should go, he''s debating fans dissatisfaction, the justification there of and the manner with which they display it.  My worry is that with each future manager its going to take less and less to go wrong before people start calling for his head.

[/quote]

Thats a very good point KidCanary, the only problem as I see it is this is a very important season as next season we don''t get 6 million of parachute money from the premiership - balancing the books becomes a lot harder.

If we do get a new manager what should we expect?  I feel we have an underacheiving squad - so an improvement must come quickly, a whole rebuilding job like George Burley had to do at Southampton is not required.  If the manager that is brought in has a good track record then results should come quickly.  Is one available??

Someone mentioned Derby on here - good manager Billy Davies, wouldnt have minded him.

[charlies dad 0]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Or everyone could just sit on their arse, accepting crap on the pitch, paying in some cases thousands of pounds, and enjoying the mocking laughter of each and every set of opposition supporters, while the board bakes a cake. [/quote]

What makes you think that the board will get it right next time ?  Will they back the new manager financially to give him the quality in depth we need to challenge ?  Or is the money simply not there, bearing in mind the millions they''ve already pumped into the club and increasing levels of debt ?  Maybe we need to adjust our expectations according to the financial muscle we have in this league, and bring younger players through.  But that''s for another day, I guess, we''ve got pitchforks and torches on Sunday to look forward to.

[/quote]I never said I thought the board would get it right. At this moment in time I dont beleive they could run a piss up in a brewery. If you took the trouble to read my posts, you would see I am not pinning all the blame at Worthingtons door. Worthington has to go. its a fact, accept it. What the cook does afterwards is the next problem on the agenda. One at a time.

[Yellow Shrimper 0]

[quote user="KidCanary"]Guys he''s not debating here whether or not the manager should go, he''s debating fans dissatisfaction, the justification there of and the manner with which they display it.  My worry is that with each future manager its going to take less and less to go wrong before people start calling for his head.

[/quote]

I agree entirely

[Yellow Shrimper 0]

[quote user="morty"]There are a lot of very angry people here that need to get their lives in perspective.[/quote]

I agree entirely with this also

[Yellow Shrimper 0]

[quote user="charlies dad"][quote user="blahblahblah"]

[quote]Or everyone could just sit on their arse, accepting crap on the pitch, paying in some cases thousands of pounds, and enjoying the mocking laughter of each and every set of opposition supporters, while the board bakes a cake. [/quote]

What makes you think that the board will get it right next time ?  Will they back the new manager financially to give him the quality in depth we need to challenge ?  Or is the money simply not there, bearing in mind the millions they''ve already pumped into the club and increasing levels of debt ?  Maybe we need to adjust our expectations according to the financial muscle we have in this league, and bring younger players through.  But that''s for another day, I guess, we''ve got pitchforks and torches on Sunday to look forward to.

[/quote]I never said I thought the board would get it right. At this moment in time I dont beleive they could run a piss up in a brewery. If you took the trouble to read my posts, you would see I am not pinning all the blame at Worthingtons door. Worthington has to go. its a fact, accept it. What the cook does afterwards is the next problem on the agenda. One at a time.[/quote]

What you quote as a fact is actually an opinion. Are you going to advise us of your profession? If Delia Smith is to be described as ''the cook'' then I feel it''s only right that your fellow posters should be able to address you with the same degree of discourtesy

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Blah x 3 - I do not like to see people singled out n this board, and you have always struck me as a reasonable and sensible person, but this post makes me wonder if I have got you wrong. You clearly have a problem with the "WO Campaign" which is fair enough, but in the past you have suggested these people are a tiny minority, you now suggest they are clever marketeers who have the power to force our majority share holders into making a public statement!!. Have you not stopped to think that as fans of Norwich City, who travelled to the Plymouth to watch yet another away day debacle unfold in front of them, Michael and Delia now feel their patience is running out?. I fear that whatever point you are trying to make has been lost in the tone and length of your post.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote user="KidCanary"]Guys he''s not debating here whether or not the manager should go, he''s debating fans dissatisfaction, the justification there of and the manner with which they display it.  My worry is that with each future manager its going to take less and less to go wrong before people start calling for his head.[/quote]

Thanks for taking the time to understand the point KidCanary, gazza, charlies dad, marty, and morty.  Some posters like to follow me around to discredit me, maybe they lack opinions of their own ?

The infrastructure and culture of protest is in place, and deeply ingrained in the support now.  It will be a difficult thing to dismantle.  The worthyout site will go if he does, I''m sure, but if he goes in the next couple of weeks, there are a group of supporters who will feel, rightly or wrongly, that they contributed to his departure, and that they will be able to do the same to get rid of another manager in the future if they choose to.  This could send us into the ever-decreasing circles of management of the past.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote] in the past you have suggested these people are a tiny minority, you now suggest they are clever marketeers who have the power to force our majority share holders into making a public statement!!. [/quote]

I would argue that with use of the internet you can be both.  It only takes a few people to set up a website, buy a domain name, and print some stickers.  Of course, results play a huge part in the momentum of protest, the way we play away is not good enough and has started to bleed into our home form, and needs to be rectified.  Had we won against Plymouth with a good performace the statement wouldn''t have been made, but had we lost and no protest had been scheduled for the televised live match, would they have bothered ?

The fact that there are experienced people with the will to organise protest against the club now, and that they seem to quite enjoy the protests in themselves, the media attention, making mp3s and pictures and putting them up on the site to bring in more people, I find deeply disturbing.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

To be honest, without the protests I can only see the board sacking their friend if we were relegated.

So our gutless board are putting personal friendships ahead of the good of our club.

Oh for a chairman like Simon Jordan or Milan Manderic, I have had enough of this spineless happy with mediocrity club we have become.

[jetstream 0]

"The infrastructure and culture of protest is in place, and deeply ingrained in the support now"I think you can attribute that partly to the rise of the interweb and football messageboards, and also the willingness of the national and local media to pay attention to the opinions expressed. I was going to add "rightly or wrongly" but then I''m not sure an opinion expressed on a messageboard is any less valid than one expressed in, say, a pub or a public meeting so long as it is cogent and not just trading childish insults. [I say "partly" as the "Chase Out" campaign organised protests and campaigns in ye olde pre-web savvy days]I take your point BBB that certain fans might see this as some kind of personal victory when Worthington goes (as he will, at some point). However, I do not think that means they will not give a new manager time to settle in. The problem with your argument seems to be that there should be NO "infrastructure and culture" of protest.So in your scenario after Worthington goes and the Club appoints a new

manager, fans should allow the new guy plenty of time to bed in. Fair enough.

Let''s say that three, four - or even six - years down the line if

things are not going well (players fighting, away form non-existant

etc) I do not see why fans should not be able to express their opinions

on messageboards, websites and (as a last resort) by holding a peaceful

demo outside the ground.I note your comments about being unhappy with the Board and the way that they are handling this issue ("back him or sack him") . How do you propose to tell the Board your viewpoint? Write a letter? Phone/email Neil Doncaster?The trouble is that once your opinion has been heard and you feel it has been ignored it is easy to get frustrated and start to look for other ways to express it, especially when team performances/results etc look as though they are backing up the very point you have expressed. When others feel the same it becomes a movement/group and the internet provides a perfect tool for uniting geographically disparate people in a common cause (whatever that might be). Like it or not, it''s here and cannot be "undone".

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Again a fair point Blah x3, but in another post you imply you do not think that the "WO Campaign" will get many people attending their protest (something about the strain on Carrow Bridge), so either these people are web savvy, clever PR people who are able to mobilise a large campaign against Nigel Worthington and force our majority shareholders to issue a statement calling for an improvement in performances or they are 40 or 50 people in smelly green t-shirts that wave silly cardboard placards and have no support from the majority of fans - which is it? 

[queen be 0]

Well said Jetstream.Why do people want to pidgeon hole me. I am not a ''Worthy Outer'', nor am I a KTF. I am aNorwich City supporter, have been all my life.I care about the club and I have an opinion. We all have one, can we not be respectful to each other whatever our view.I want change based on six years, I came to that decision, believe it or not, by myself, I have a mind of my own. I do not jump on bandwagons, but I am prepared to stand up for my beliefs. This is not because I have or want any power, just that I wish to express my views and make them known. I respect your opinion, can you not respect mine. Please don''t assume I''m a sheep or try object to my expressing my view in a peaceful manner. You can do the same if you so wish.Just because we dissagree does''nt mean one or other of us is a better fan, cares more ect.Yes some of us need to keep perspective, take a deep breath, count to 10! Lets stop point scoring and agree to dissagree.

[blahblahblah 2]

[quote]Again a fair point Blah x3, but in another post you imply you do not think that the "WO Campaign" will get many people attending their protest (something about the strain on Carrow Bridge), so either these people are web savvy, clever PR people who are able to mobilise a large campaign against Nigel Worthington and force our majority shareholders to issue a statement calling for an improvement in performances or they are 40 or 50 people in smelly green t-shirts that wave silly cardboard placards and have no support from the majority of fans - which is it?[/quote]

Until sunday, nobody knows.  It''s like predicting which Norwich team will turn out, the one against Preston, or the one against Palace.  I believe that it is the fear of a possible protest the size of the Stoke protest last season (just after we lost to the binners), combined with poor performances, that has led to the ultimatum.  If the protests are the size of the subsequent ones last season, they can be laughed off.    Either way the stakes have been raised and someone will end up looking very silly on Sunday afternoon.  It saddens me that it will be anyone connected with the club, fan, board member, or manager.

[Mook 0]

Bloody hell, I''ve heard it all now. "Oh for a chairman like Simon Jordan ... "

You fancy Trevor Francis as manager, CJF??? Oh, hang on. Better fire him, he''s useless after all. Palace are no better off than we are, and they''ve got through more managers than most.

Ok - it looks like people are taking action, by firing their manager. Although it fools the fools .... sorry, fans .... in to thinking they are "stopping the rot", in many cases they just make it worse.

However, in our case, we need a change. But I don''t want to be the next Leeds or Sunderland or Palace just changing manager every 18 months. It gets you nowhere in the end.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Blah x 3 - I am with you re your final comment. From a personal point of view I have never visited the "WO" site, will not be protesting on Sunday and I am hoping for a win against Burnley. I do not consider myself either a "KTF" or a "WO", I am just an ordinary fan who hopes that the Norwich City board has the courage to make the right decisions for Norwich City FC and its fans, whatever those decisions are.