The Club Kool Aid

[Ulfotto 800]

So it seems that your enthusiasm for this season relies on the drinking the club kool aid and getting on board with this new project. The pinkun boys are drunk on it. Personally I am very wary of how this season might go I hope it will be positive one however a few things worry me.

It’s not been said enough the jump from the Danish top flight to the championship is massive. Thorup unlike Farke is not coming via a club like Dortmund his experience is entirely in Denmark. His reputation is built on a few performances in the UEFA Cup.
 

It has not been widely reported that Thorup and his assistant manager (who is more of a manager) Riddersholm have never worked together before. Which is odd.

Neither of them have worked in England before and have never coached players as talented as we have. Will the players accept there ideas?

Another example of the Kool aid is the transfer policy we have signed a centre back and a left back. And have Doyle all but done. Can you imagine if Wagner had signed these guys? aren’t they just blocking Hills, Warner, Tomkinson and Montoia route to the first team? That would be to e accusation if Wagner was in charge. For a championship team serious money has been spent on the Villa left back and Cordoba.

Last season, the hot take seems to be it was a disaster. Yes it ended badly but we were a whisker away from fifth behind 3 big premier league teams and a team having a once in a generation season. We also scored 79 goals, 79! That is a massive amount. So it wasn’t that bad. 
 

Last season Wagner was two bad performances from being booed. I worry a similar expectation or mentality may remain at Carrow Road.

It will be interesting no doubt this season let’s hope for everyone sake the kool aid continues to flow and the results pick up.

 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

You are going to have to explain what Kool Aid is.

[Keith Nott 172]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

You are going to have to explain what Kool Aid is.

You are going to have to learn how to use Google. 

All the best,

Big Keith Nott

[Ulfotto 800]

Kool Aid

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

[TIL 1010 5,246]

That explains why i haven't seen it on the shelves in Sainsburys, Tesco or M&S Foodhall.

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

That explains why i haven't seen it on the shelves in Sainsburys, Tesco or M&S Foodhall.

Well no, because you shop in Aldi. 

[Keith Nott 172]

1 minute ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Well no, because you shop in Aldi. 

That posh? I'm a home bargains kind of guy. 

All the best, 

Big Keith Nott

[debbie does norwich 24]

12 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

You are going to have to explain what Kool Aid is.

You were not alone. I had to look up the link to find out what it meant!!!

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Just now, Duncan Edwards said:

Well no, because you shop in Aldi. 

I might have to rethink my shopping habits now my winter heating allowance has gone.

[Carrow89 186]

I'm always amazed that some feel the need to try to be hip and with it by using obscure words and phrases. Only to then have to explain what is meant. .All rather self defeating,

[Keith Nott 172]

5 minutes ago, debbie does norwich said:

You were not alone. I had to look up the link to find out what it meant!!!

Knows what "Debbie does" is. Doesn't know what Kool Aid is. 

All the best,

Big Keith Nott

[TheGoogler 604]

3 minutes ago, Carrow89 said:

I'm always amazed that some feel the need to try to be hip and with it by using obscure words and phrases. Only to then have to explain what is meant. .All rather self defeating,

Kool Aid has been around since 1927 mate. Coincidentally also the last time anyone else tried to use the phrases "hip" and "with it". 

[wcorkcanary 4,785]

30 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

You are going to have to explain what Kool Aid is.

Did you pass the Acid Test then Tillo ? Or did you opt for the non electric  variety. ? 

Look  at me ! All questions, I've become a bit Essex. 

[Google Bot 3,934]

Enjoy the ride, I say.  We're all just bare bums in the shower at the end of the day.

[wcorkcanary 4,785]

12 minutes ago, TheGoogler said:

Kool Aid has been around since 1927 mate. Coincidentally also the last time anyone else tried to use the phrases "hip" and "with it". 

It think you'll find I used the word hip combined  with jive and Daddio on here only a while ago. But hey  , you square, go dig. 

[CANARYKING 708]

18 minutes ago, Keith Nott said:

Knows what "Debbie does" is. Doesn't know what Kool Aid is. 

All the best,

Big Keith Nott

Does Debbie drink Kool Aid in Dallas ?

[littleyellowbirdie 3,141]

Kool Aid is fine. If they start asking us to drink the Flavour Aid then we're in trouble.

[repman 754]

Just to refute the point about not coaching players as talented as we have. Last year Thorup coached Ibrahim Osman, who has just joined Brighton, and Andreas Schjelderup, who Benfica paid 10 million euros for. There's probably a few more examples of him having worked with some excellent young players from before he took over the head coach role. Riddersholm mentioned how he'd worked with Christian Eriksen as a young player, who didn't turn out too badly either.

I can't say I'm massively enthused about the season ahead but it's the situation we find ourselves in. We were a considerable distance off the top 4 sides last season (and that's before you dig into the underlying numbers which showed we over-performed significantly) and we did that with one of the oldest sides in the league. We could have doubled down on that path and tried to fool ourselves into believing maybe another experienced head or two would be enough to get us over the line. Unfortunately we also face the end of parachute payments, so we can't afford to keep as many experienced players on the books, and the need for younger players becomes even greater.

The big issue with last season's signings were that if they weren't good enough now then when will they be? At least with Chrisene and Cordoba you could at least dream on the fact they might improve over the next few years, not sure you can say the same for Duffy and Batth. Are the new signings blocking our own youth players? Yes, but crucially they are young too, we shouldn't be sentimental about academy players. The reason we need young players is because the club needs the money they could potentially bring. 

[debbie does norwich 24]

8 hours ago, Keith Nott said:

Knows what "Debbie does" is. Doesn't know what Kool Aid is. 

All the best,

Big Keith Nott

The 'Debbie does ...' name is actually a private joke against myself because when someone used that reference about me, I had no idea what he was talking about and had to have it explained. How's that for a new moniker "confessions of a Debbie"

[Ulfotto 800]

14 hours ago, repman said:

Just to refute the point about not coaching players as talented as we have. Last year Thorup coached Ibrahim Osman, who has just joined Brighton, and Andreas Schjelderup, who Benfica paid 10 million euros for. There's probably a few more examples of him having worked with some excellent young players from before he took over the head coach role. Riddersholm mentioned how he'd worked with Christian Eriksen as a young player, who didn't turn out too badly either.

I can't say I'm massively enthused about the season ahead but it's the situation we find ourselves in. We were a considerable distance off the top 4 sides last season (and that's before you dig into the underlying numbers which showed we over-performed significantly) and we did that with one of the oldest sides in the league. We could have doubled down on that path and tried to fool ourselves into believing maybe another experienced head or two would be enough to get us over the line. Unfortunately we also face the end of parachute payments, so we can't afford to keep as many experienced players on the books, and the need for younger players becomes even greater.

The big issue with last season's signings were that if they weren't good enough now then when will they be? At least with Chrisene and Cordoba you could at least dream on the fact they might improve over the next few years, not sure you can say the same for Duffy and Batth. Are the new signings blocking our own youth players? Yes, but crucially they are young too, we shouldn't be sentimental about academy players. The reason we need young players is because the club needs the money they could potentially bring. 

All excellent points I’m slightly in the dark about his achievements in the Danish league.

Although it is bringing branded as a fresh start, a reset, a project etc… It feels to me like the elephant in the room is that it is a massive gamble. For the reasons discussed in my original post. To me the season will rest on the fans attitude to a team in transition and crucially if Thorup is given more time and slack than Smith and Wagner. Smith was sacked with the club in 5th and Wagner led us into the playoffs both being deemed failures. If Thorup guides us to the playoffs to me that is a massive achievement but it feels to me like most fans think this is the bare minimum that is required. Interesting times ahead.

[Bristol Canary 156]

36 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

All excellent points I’m slightly in the dark about his achievements in the Danish league.

Although it is bringing branded as a fresh start, a reset, a project etc… It feels to me like the elephant in the room is that it is a massive gamble. For the reasons discussed in my original post. To me the season will rest on the fans attitude to a team in transition and crucially if Thorup is given more time and slack than Smith and Wagner. Smith was sacked with the club in 5th and Wagner led us into the playoffs both being deemed failures. If Thorup guides us to the playoffs to me that is a massive achievement but it feels to me like most fans think this is the bare minimum that is required. Interesting times ahead.

I think what you're missing is Ulfotto, and I think generally why everyone seems a little more hopeful, is that the reset seems to have come from six/nine months of diligent planning in the background. Carefully selecting a manager with a specific front foot style of play, getting that manager in the door with experienced support and targeting players that can fit that system. All part of a wider long term ambitious plan to grow the club. Much more communication this summer about this plan too for us to digest.  

This has been what us fans have been crying out for over the last few years. Firstly, Smith and Wagner were not part of some wider plan they were reactionary to events unfolding. Their careers unlike Thorup were at low points following sackings at previous clubs. They both had points to prove but they were straight on the backfoot. Webber had said in the press that Farke was much a better manager than Wagner in his opinion so why go back to him? Then I think one of the most important things is that both failed in their stated aims when they were appointed... "keep us up" and "get in the top six". Both ending their first half a season in very poor form, failure and starting their first full season with a target on their back rather than having no baggage from the previous season. 

That doesn't mean your fears aren't legitimate though. I personally can at least buy into this season because from the outside it looks like a thorough process has been put in place, diligent planning undertaken and a belief in that plan from the club rather than the scatter gun short termism of the last few years. Doesn't mean it will work, football doesn't work like that but I just want to believe we're back to being a smarter club which allows us to punch above richer teams. 

[Ulfotto 800]

33 minutes ago, Bristol Canary said:

I think what you're missing is Ulfotto, and I think generally why everyone seems a little more hopeful, is that the reset seems to have come from six/nine months of diligent planning in the background. Carefully selecting a manager with a specific front foot style of play, getting that manager in the door with experienced support and targeting players that can fit that system. All part of a wider long term ambitious plan to grow the club. Much more communication this summer about this plan too for us to digest.  

This has been what us fans have been crying out for over the last few years. Firstly, Smith and Wagner were not part of some wider plan they were reactionary to events unfolding. Their careers unlike Thorup were at low points following sackings at previous clubs. They both had points to prove but they were straight on the backfoot. Webber had said in the press that Farke was much a better manager than Wagner in his opinion so why go back to him? Then I think one of the most important things is that both failed in their stated aims when they were appointed... "keep us up" and "get in the top six". Both ending their first half a season in very poor form, failure and starting their first full season with a target on their back rather than having no baggage from the previous season. 

That doesn't mean your fears aren't legitimate though. I personally can at least buy into this season because from the outside it looks like a thorough process has been put in place, diligent planning undertaken and a belief in that plan from the club rather than the scatter gun short termism of the last few years. Doesn't mean it will work, football doesn't work like that but I just want to believe we're back to being a smarter club which allows us to punch above richer teams. 

I very much agree that we have broken with what was very much short termism with the plan to get promoted without a real plan for what happens after be it success or failure.

I just feel that there is an inbuilt assumption that this new approach will work almost instantly hence the now ridiculed “kool aid” tag. It will be interesting how the fan base reacts if a turgid mid table nothing campaign like 17/18 is served up.

[Drazen Muzinic 1,502]

18 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Kool Aid is fine. If they start asking us to drink the Flavour Aid then we're in trouble.

This man knows the story.

Flavor Aid is the Aldi version so Til can pick some up there if he wants to...

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,261]

2 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

All excellent points I’m slightly in the dark about his achievements in the Danish league.

Although it is bringing branded as a fresh start, a reset, a project etc… It feels to me like the elephant in the room is that it is a massive gamble. For the reasons discussed in my original post. To me the season will rest on the fans attitude to a team in transition and crucially if Thorup is given more time and slack than Smith and Wagner. Smith was sacked with the club in 5th and Wagner led us into the playoffs both being deemed failures. If Thorup guides us to the playoffs to me that is a massive achievement but it feels to me like most fans think this is the bare minimum that is required. Interesting times ahead.

It is a gamble but for me at our club with our finances the gamble is always worth taking because the safe option is always mid-table Championship with the finances we have and the overall quality of our players when we find ourselves in this league without parachute payments. I'd much rather we always took a gamble and risked it going badly wrong in the hope that we might over perform short and long term because there's nothing more boring and frustrating if you're invested than a mid table season in the Championship. If it all goes horribly wrong a relegation battle is something to get invested in and you know it can only get better from there with some better decisions, if you over perform then brilliant but going for a safe proven average Championship manager and performing on par for the quality of our squad to me is boring and really unambitious. 

Wagner would've got this team to finish between 4th and 12th next year. Under Thorup we could be literally anywhere and it could even go so well that we get promoted and actually go into the following season quite confident. But we just don't know yet and that's why I like the risk involved in this approach. 

[Mello Yello 2,572]

22 hours ago, TheGoogler said:

Kool Aid has been around since 1927 mate. Coincidentally also the last time anyone else tried to use the phrases "hip" and "with it". 

How about "hip" and "replacement"?.....A slightly more apt phrase for some on this forum ....

[percy varco 253]

I liked them in the 70s. 
lot of people in the group. Get Down On It was a favourite of mine when in Tudor Hall