Did players WANT to lose?

[BigFish 2,218]

58 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

We were third this season for winning points after going behind.

Don't you come on here spoiling threads with your damn facts

[Wibble 151]

I think we got quite lucky in the second half of the season, quite unlucky in the first.

That being said, so many errors both players and management throughout the season. 

Bizzare team and sub choices none of which worked out, and the fact we were relying partly on players that werent good enough last year but back from loan now good enough.

No prolific wingers, altho playering wingers, back 4 not great for more than a season.

We need a plan and forcast, having youth players not on the bench when 2 keepers is just madness and really doesnt give the youth confidence.

 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,552]

2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Don't you come on here spoiling threads with your damn facts

4th in the home form but 19th in the away form.

 

There's a fact for you

 

That second part is what screwed the season over and if anything is proof that Wagner was just not good enough. Sure, injuries played their part and we had an extended bad run..

 

But 19th in the away form table is AWFUL and is not the kind of form a manager that's good enough gets you.

Edited May 18 by cambridgeshire canary

[Gordon Bennett 864]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

I think they just ran out of gas to be honest. Not really being able to rotate much down the stretch really did not help matters, and chuck in that a few were coming back from injuries and realistically, we were never physically going to be at our peak.

Spot on.

[BigFish 2,218]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I keep reflecting on the horror story of the last game. And I just wonder if some of our players felt their future might be better served remaining in the champs not with promotion. They just showed no real fight or passion - it was all so half hearted. And much, much worse than when we played Leeds during the season. Or did they just choke? 

 

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Well there was no belief from Knapper that we would make the playoffs so consequently the plans from January were for another season in the Champs. Everything I saw pointed to a siege mentality to finish in the top six and after that ‘job done’. As I’ve said elsewhere I think making the play offs was probably a bit of an annoyance as the plans were already underway for a restart in the champs next season and could even have included input from someone lined up to replace Wagner. 

A lot of post seaseon agenda pushing going on at the moment but I think Nutty has a point here. Simple answer is Leeds are a far better team, if we had sneaked through to Wembley it would really have been daylight (or rather floodlight) robbery. Considering the thinness of the squad and the injuries we had Wagner actually outperformed in getting us to 6th, and as Nutty wrote this probably delayed the start of Knapper's transformation by a couple of weeks. No really sure the OP stands to scrutiny as I can't see any player is better served, either financially or career wise, by the club missing out on the EPL bonus. All we saw was a team that had strained to outperform their potentional, running out of steam and getting beaten by a team that really should have gone up automatically.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,468]

We bottled it, end of.

Fatigue was also a factor, but too many players couldn’t handle the occasion. Too many players are mentally fragile. We need more leaders.. like the Lambert side, and dare I say, like Ipswich this season. 

I’d go as far to say, we haven’t got a true leader in the squad. McLean isn’t.. Barnes Isn’t… Duffy isn’t… Hanley isn’t… and neither is Gibson. 

I’d like us to adopt a transfer strategy that looks at captains from the lower champs and League one. No way Holt, Howson, BJ, Crofts, Pilkington, Bassong, Tettey, Jerome, Ruddy etc were bottling a play off semi at Elland Road. Quite the opposite. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,468]

And also, not ‘wanting to lose’ but a lot of our players happy to have finished 6th and judged that as success.. again mentality weak.

[stratton canary 157]

3 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

No , they wanted to win some would get hefty Bonuses if we went up ,also most players wages would go up also 

Only if we had won the final,  Time for agent Martin now to make his make 

[repman 691]

The players didn't want to lose they simply lost to a better team. The top 4 sides were pretty easily the best coached sides in the league, hence why they racked up the points they did. We could match Ipswich in a derby game and we got results against Southampton but I'm not sure I would have backed us to repeat that in the playoffs.

The question is whether you believe Wagner could bring the team to the level of those 4 over the course of a season. While reaching the playoffs is an achievement, I think we need to be better to give ourselves a shot at promotion. Simply sneaking into the top 6 isn't enough when you have to face a side like Leeds, over 2 legs they will overpower you.

Some will say that our record with Sargent shows we could have been up there had he stayed fit, I'd say that our underlying numbers suggested we over-performed at both ends of the pitch. Even if you say that the over-performance is repeatable, the players who were the biggest positives in this were Sargent, Sara and Rowe and there's a decent chance at least 2 of the 3 won't be here next year.

[ZLF 331]

I don't think we went out to lose but I think once they took the lead any belief in recovering the situation melted away.

Picking so many partially fit players didn't help nor did accommodating barmes and taking sara off the ball.  

Away mentality, weak tactics and too many poor decisions in too many below average performances together with simply better opponents to on the night did for us.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,649]

What is certain is we gave them two goals . The game plan was gone and so were the players heads. 
Wagner survived the changeover from Webber to Knapper and no one in the club expected Wagner to be there at Christmas but it became impossible to sack him. 
The club has been in limbo since in many ways 
 

[daly 537]

5 hours ago, hogesar said:

Jesus wept 

Thought this was an advert for Kleenex

[daly 537]

37 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

What is certain is we gave them two goals . The game plan was gone and so were the players heads. 
Wagner survived the changeover from Webber to Knapper and no one in the club expected Wagner to be there at Christmas but it became impossible to sack him. 
The club has been in limbo since in many ways 
 

All boils down to the squad was not good enough 17 points difference speaks  volumes

We never had anyone on the bench to bring on to change things

The points dropped to teams at the bottom of league shows we are not Premiership material 

Think it’s a long way back as it doesn’t appear any big money is coming our way

Still more games for our money and at least hopefully not on the end of 5 -0 defeats

[chicken 3,000]

7 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I keep reflecting on the horror story of the last game. And I just wonder if some of our players felt their future might be better served remaining in the champs not with promotion. They just showed no real fight or passion - it was all so half hearted. And much, much worse than when we played Leeds during the season. Or did they just choke? 

None of the above.

We have well publicised promotion bonuses and pay rises. Even if they felt they might get replaced upon promotion, or become back ups, they'd be financially far better off.

At the time, one of the reasons we landed Barnes was contract length, so in that regards, he'd never get a better pay-off for possibly the last season of his career than those promotion benefits.

And that's the oldest player in the squad.

The scoreline may have been worse than games earlier in the season but I think there are far more factors at play. I don't think the whole squad choked either.

Stacey, Nunez, McClean never stopped. Nor Sargent whilst he was on. Knackered though he was.

Questionable choices: the left flank of Giannoulis and Rowe had been out injured. Starting the two of them on the same flank may have been too much. How many of their goals came from that side of the pitch? The free kick was given away there.

Once we went two goals down in a must win game, you have no choice but to try and chase it. They were very dangerous on the break. So it just played more and more into their strengths.

Our set pieces over both games were shocking, never beating the front post/first man. What happened to all of the clever corner routines or free kick plans Andy Hughes supposedly had drawn up and worked to such great effect earlier in the season?

I think when that 3rd goal goes in the fight has gone. Had we got one back, that Sargent goal, we'd have seen a second wind, but instead it was a suckerpunch.

Just not good enough mix of a squad. Full backs can't afford to push on with such slow CBs but our play needs those full backs. Nunez and McClean felt outnumbered in the middle. Sara quickly jumped on. Rowe had time and space more but was poor with it.

[Making Plans 957]

Maybe they were just scared sh*tless

[SwindonCanary 457]

we got to the play-off's with a team we have 

[PurpleCanary 6,192]

Yes, DCB, the obvious and indeed the only rational explanation for why we lost on aggregate over two legs to a team that had beaten us twice in the regular season and finished 17 points above us is that the players actively wanted to lose.

[Sufyellow 250]

15 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

What is certain is we gave them two goals . The game plan was gone and so were the players heads. 
Wagner survived the changeover from Webber to Knapper and no one in the club expected Wagner to be there at Christmas but it became impossible to sack him. 
The club has been in limbo since in many ways 
 

The game plan was gone from the kick off ,Rowe and dimi were ripped apart from the first minute,  so the whole defence didn't have a clue what to do, the midfield were 3 individuals helping no one. Farke put 4 attackers on our back 3. We were rabbits in head lights. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,468]

14 hours ago, chicken said:

None of the above.

We have well publicised promotion bonuses and pay rises. Even if they felt they might get replaced upon promotion, or become back ups, they'd be financially far better off.

At the time, one of the reasons we landed Barnes was contract length, so in that regards, he'd never get a better pay-off for possibly the last season of his career than those promotion benefits.

And that's the oldest player in the squad.

The scoreline may have been worse than games earlier in the season but I think there are far more factors at play. I don't think the whole squad choked either.

Stacey, Nunez, McClean never stopped. Nor Sargent whilst he was on. Knackered though he was.

Questionable choices: the left flank of Giannoulis and Rowe had been out injured. Starting the two of them on the same flank may have been too much. How many of their goals came from that side of the pitch? The free kick was given away there.

Once we went two goals down in a must win game, you have no choice but to try and chase it. They were very dangerous on the break. So it just played more and more into their strengths.

Our set pieces over both games were shocking, never beating the front post/first man. What happened to all of the clever corner routines or free kick plans Andy Hughes supposedly had drawn up and worked to such great effect earlier in the season?

I think when that 3rd goal goes in the fight has gone. Had we got one back, that Sargent goal, we'd have seen a second wind, but instead it was a suckerpunch.

Just not good enough mix of a squad. Full backs can't afford to push on with such slow CBs but our play needs those full backs. Nunez and McClean felt outnumbered in the middle. Sara quickly jumped on. Rowe had time and space more but was poor with it.

Clearly choked.. what game did you watch! Mentally fragile in big game scenarios. You ridicule others opinions, yet yours are wildly sympathetic all the time. Try to be more objective and less righteous 👍