match thread *official lappinitup match thread Foxes v Canaries*

[sgncfc 1,233]

6 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

What should he have done then? I can see a lot of howling and growling on here without anyone offering a solution

Pushed our midfield and back four 10-15 yards upfield before their "set". Brought on Gibbs for Duffy, put Maclean at CB and told Sainz to cover his winger and give MacCallum more support. Push Sara up and brought on Fassnacht for Barnes.

[Segura 84]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

What we should have done is press then, win the ball back up the pitch. Not just let them knock it around. Get on the ball and give them a treat to worry about. With the run they have been on they would have been twitchy as hell if we’d gone at them. Not kamikaze but just with intensity and intent. 

Fair play for coming back.

It's a moot point of course, but think we could have done with Rowe today - the only player we have who can do something out of nothing and give the threat you speak about.

[BigFish 1,988]

4 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Our players are as good as theirs

In 7 words all opinions are pretty much invalidated

[sgncfc 1,233]

Just now, BigFish said:

In 7 words all opinions are pretty much invalidated

Given that pretty much everything you post is garbage I take that as a compliment.

 

[BigFish 1,988]

15 minutes ago, S_81 said:

He sat us far deeper. And changed nothing until we were behind. And that was coming, clearly coming. 
 

Now, as I’ve said in this thread, Leicester certainly have more strength in depth and may always beat us regardless, especially away from home, even going toe to toe. But I’d have rather seen us try and take the game to them more. We didn’t. And from what I just watched I’d say that’s because we deployed a tactic of sitting deep and trying to counter. It didn’t work. And he didn’t have a plan B for it. 
 

The manager has underperformed today. Far less so than the upturn in results, which I give him credit for. He’s got us into the territory we should be. But I still have huge questions about whether he could see this team through the play offs, if he even gets us there. 
 

First thing’s first - a must win against the scum. 

Fair comment 🙂 

[BigFish 1,988]

6 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Pushed our midfield and back four 10-15 yards upfield before their "set". Brought on Gibbs for Duffy, put Maclean at CB and told Sainz to cover his winger and give MacCallum more support. Push Sara up and brought on Fassnacht for Barnes.

Einstein strikes again, if only our coaching team had thought to tell Sainz to cover his man, why didn't they?

[Channon’s Windmill 327]

Still think we looked best when the Mayor was at centre back, worrying really when every combination with specialist CBs looks dire. 

[ged in the onion bag 856]

33 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

 Stacey and McCallum were terrible.

There was a fundamental reason for that though.     WAGNER!  

He clearly instructed them to stay narrow and allow them time and space... they have too much quality to allow that to happen.     The bloke never learns.    That resembled Middlesboro away and on both occassions we just gave up from leading 1-0.   

Sackable in my opnion.    Absolute disgrace.   Both occasions were on national TV..... what an embarassment.   We can't be havin performances like this ever. 

Edited April 1 by ged in the onion bag

[king canary 7,624]

In a Leicester pub so will keep thoughts brief.

Ok in first half without much attacking threat.

Inexcusably passive for the first 20 of the second half.

Odd to not use more subs when the game was clearly going against us.

McCallum was awful, wouldn't be extending him based on today.

Leicester did a good job pressing us after 20 minutes. McLean and Nunez weren't in the game and we for some reason refused to be more direct considering we had two bigger players up top.

Leicester clearly a better side. Hopefully we don't have to play them in the playoffs.

[Segura 84]

7 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Pushed our midfield and back four 10-15 yards upfield before their "set". Brought on Gibbs for Duffy, put Maclean at CB and told Sainz to cover his winger and give MacCallum more support. Push Sara up and brought on Fassnacht for Barnes.

I think the first option would have left us pretty exposed - their wingers were excellent and always a threat in behind. In fairness, the idea of switching Kenny to centre back did flash through my mind at one point, but I think he would get targeted against better teams.

I just think Leicester were better than us all over the park and there's not much Wagner could have done to change things.

[ged in the onion bag 856]

Just now, Segura said:

I think the first option would have left us pretty exposed - their wingers were excellent and always a threat in behind. In fairness, the idea of switching Kenny to centre back did flash through my mind at one point, but I think he would get targeted against better teams.

I just think Leicester were better than us all over the park and there's not much Wagner could have done to change things.

... that's an astonishing response.    Do you really think we couldn't have done anything better in that game.     and if we couldn't why on earth would you be worried about the play-offs.   If we can't do better than that, then we need to avoid the play-offs.     I'd prefer to watch football matches where both teams are prepared to have a go.   That was shocking and Leicester were only that good because we allowed them to be that good.     

[Jim Smith 2,325]

12 minutes ago, Channon’s Windmill said:

Still think we looked best when the Mayor was at centre back, worrying really when every combination with specialist CBs looks dire. 

Agree. And we play the ball out better also 

[Segura 84]

19 minutes ago, Keith Scott said:

There are many things he could have tried tactically. But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to grasp them. The problem is neither can Wagner. As usual just sat there and watched us capitulate like a deer in the headlights.

Dreadful, Dreadful 'manager'.

All the best.

Big Keith Scott.

You're probably right in fairness, I'm pretty dumb and never played football above Dog and Duck level.

I don't think Wagner is a dreadful manager, just a bit meh and we could probably find better, possibly.

Today we were beaten by a better team, that's something many people struggle to admit nowadays.

All the best, Segura.

[shefcanary 2,435]

Woeful tactically from Wagner. Kenny back to normal ineffectual self. Barnes wasn't interested but he should have been pivotal, no sign of his so called experience whatsoever. The set up had McCallum and Stacey too narrow, losing our outballs. It was horrible to watch, glad I had family commitments and couldn't watch in person or down the pub. Awful. 

So, is it beginning of another losing streak, or just clearing a last poor performance out of our system? 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,289]

1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

Woeful tactically from Wagner. Kenny back to normal ineffectual self. Barnes wasn't interested but he should have been pivotal, no sign of his so called experience whatsoever. The set up had McCallum and Stacey too narrow, losing our outballs. It was horrible to watch, glad I had family commitments and couldn't watch in person or down the pub. Awful. 

So, is it beginning of another losing streak, or just clearing a last poor performance out of our system? 

I think we just quickly move on and get ready for Ipswich. We were never going to end the season without losing again and better it here than Ipswich or Preston.

[Mello Yello 2,297]

Focus on Ipswich....we have to win that game.....

[Segura 84]

11 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

... that's an astonishing response.    Do you really think we couldn't have done anything better in that game.     and if we couldn't why on earth would you be worried about the play-offs.   If we can't do better than that, then we need to avoid the play-offs.     I'd prefer to watch football matches where both teams are prepared to have a go.   That was shocking and Leicester were only that good because we allowed them to be that good.     

No we simply had no answer to them and nobody on here has suggested what an effective tactic would have been, in my humble opinion  - too many people have made their mind up about Wagner and it clouds their thinking when things go against us.

So again I ask you, what could we done in that game?

Push up - we just get exposed

Go long - I don't think Barnes and Sarge can hold it up that well.

Switch Kenny to centre back - Maybe, but have we seen him play in this role against better teams? I can't recall but fear he would get targeted.

As said, I think we could have taken something from this game with Rowe, the only player we have who can conjure something out of nothing - perfect for playing when you're under the cosh.

[Nuff Said 5,149]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Good thing we don't have a championship player of the season who's a centreback sat on the bench.

We don’t. We have a player who was player of the season for ONE Championship club. 

[Jim Smith 2,325]

21 minutes ago, Segura said:

No we simply had no answer to them and nobody on here has suggested what an effective tactic would have been, in my humble opinion  - too many people have made their mind up about Wagner and it clouds their thinking when things go against us.

So again I ask you, what could we done in that game?

Push up - we just get exposed

Go long - I don't think Barnes and Sarge can hold it up that well.

Switch Kenny to centre back - Maybe, but have we seen him play in this role against better teams? I can't recall but fear he would get targeted.

As said, I think we could have taken something from this game with Rowe, the only player we have who can conjure something out of nothing - perfect for playing when you're under the cosh.

I think we needed to have possession in this game. I would have rested Barnes, played an extra midfielder and tried to dominate the ball like we did at Leeds.

[Nuff Said 5,149]

38 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

... that's an astonishing response. 

Says the poster who thinks the best thing the club could do is select a first 11 of academy players the. deliberately avoid promotion for a few years until we have magically transformed them into a team capable of surviving in the Premiership.

[ged in the onion bag 856]

8 minutes ago, Segura said:

No we simply had no answer to them and nobody on here has suggested what an effective tactic would have been, in my humble opinion  - too many people have made their mind up about Wagner and it clouds their thinking when things go against us.

So again I ask you, what could we done in that game?

Push up - we just get exposed

Go long - I don't think Barnes and Sarge can hold it up that well.

Switch Kenny to centre back - Maybe, but have we seen him play in this role against better teams? I can't recall but fear he would get targeted.

As said, I think we could have taken something from this game with Rowe, the only player we have who can conjure something out of nothing - perfect for playing when you're under the cosh.

On this same page you wrote.......  

'you're probably right in fairness, I'm pretty dumb and never played football above Dog and Duck level.     All the best, Segura'

on page 4, just before half-time I wrote....  'Let’s see how clever Wagner is now.    He’s not changed anything and just like Middlesbrough, this games just awaiting their next goal.   He’s got to get McCallum wider and tighter.   Sainz deeper and more effort generally.    Far too laboured'.      

page 5, just after half-time....  Based on this start, he's done nothing... same weaknesses, not getting in their faces across the park.  Were just inviting trouble.     Again, not having a proper go.   PLEASE DONT GO UP !

page 9...  What like, don't sit back, play higher up the field, get in the opponents faces and make it hard....play with more tempo, inspire them to work harder with more energy,   .... don't play so narrow, get some width in our full-backs so their wide men can't have a field day....      Knock it up to Barnes and get Sargent around him... Fact is we've been too slow, workrate has been poor and McLean has gone missing again when there is no space. 

There you are, many things we could have done, others pointed out putting McLean in defence, at least its an option....

Football is about attitude.... mentally wanting to win, setting up to have a go.   Learning lessons helps, we did exactly the same at Middlesborough and got hammered and embarrassed at the same time.     

You can't say 'push up we get exposed when you've just watched us spend 70 minutes completely exposed.     You push up, get energy in the play, make it tough for you're individual opponent, close down the opponents, don't allow them the width when they have such quality and pace, make them come through the middle and try to combat that instead, make McLean, Sara and Nunez work harder or even add Gibbs who can put a foot in.     What we were doing didn't work, they put in cross, after cross and never tried to stop it.    Now Stacey and McCallum are getting all the stick when really they were told to play narrow, allow the space and they had very little protection from the wide forwards.    

Let me inform you about McLean, he's been much better more recently for a very real reason, he was dropped to a holding midfield position first and then central defence.... in both instances, its allowed him more time and room on the ball.... interestingly, his passing has been much improved.... put him in a game when the opponent presses and denies space and he's absent.... today a case in point.     Which confirms my point, if you have a go and deny the opponent freedoms to play, they won't be so effective.    

We could have done so much more to affect that game.    Wagner failed completely.     

I'd love to hear an articulated reasoning as to how Rowe could or would have made a difference today with that set up.   

 

 

[Haus 259]

Playing with everyone behind the ball in our own box for 70 mins isn't viable.  

 

We still need to pose a threat so they can't commit everyone forward 

[Corbs1 90]

16 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Says the poster who thinks the best thing the club could do is select a first 11 of academy players the. deliberately avoid promotion for a few years until we have magically transformed them into a team capable of surviving in the Premiership.

That’s my plan too to be fair

[ged in the onion bag 856]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Says the poster who thinks the best thing the club could do is select a first 11 of academy players the. deliberately avoid promotion for a few years until we have magically transformed them into a team capable of surviving in the Premiership.

But that's not what i said is it.    Never has been what I said.    But you misinterpret it all you like if it makes you feel big.   I said, (with good reasoning) how we need to develop the team (in the absense of money) so we might be able to compete, just like Farke did.... and that would take longer than a season to develop it and it would need some talent brought through.    It would need a proper plan a philosophy and patience, not magic!   

Exactly where have we got this last 3 seasons.... yes, we might get promoted through the back door, be interesting to see the meltdown on here if we do, as we will not compete with our lack of funds and we still aren't developing properly.     

All we are doing now is trying desperately to stay as a yo-you club..... that's not been a great experience for 5 of the last 6 seasons has it.     On that basis, it might not work but neither is this approach either.    At least we have something to buy into.    

 

[Segura 84]

10 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

On this same page you wrote.......  

'you're probably right in fairness, I'm pretty dumb and never played football above Dog and Duck level.     All the best, Segura'

on page 4, just before half-time I wrote....  'Let’s see how clever Wagner is now.    He’s not changed anything and just like Middlesbrough, this games just awaiting their next goal.   He’s got to get McCallum wider and tighter.   Sainz deeper and more effort generally.    Far too laboured'.      

page 5, just after half-time....  Based on this start, he's done nothing... same weaknesses, not getting in their faces across the park.  Were just inviting trouble.     Again, not having a proper go.   PLEASE DONT GO UP !

page 9...  What like, don't sit back, play higher up the field, get in the opponents faces and make it hard....play with more tempo, inspire them to work harder with more energy,   .... don't play so narrow, get some width in our full-backs so their wide men can't have a field day....      Knock it up to Barnes and get Sargent around him... Fact is we've been too slow, workrate has been poor and McLean has gone missing again when there is no space. 

There you are, many things we could have done, others pointed out putting McLean in defence, at least its an option....

Football is about attitude.... mentally wanting to win, setting up to have a go.   Learning lessons helps, we did exactly the same at Middlesborough and got hammered and embarrassed at the same time.     

You can't say 'push up we get exposed when you've just watched us spend 70 minutes completely exposed.     You push up, get energy in the play, make it tough for you're individual opponent, close down the opponents, don't allow them the width when they have such quality and pace, make them come through the middle and try to combat that instead, make McLean, Sara and Nunez work harder or even add Gibbs who can put a foot in.     What we were doing didn't work, they put in cross, after cross and never tried to stop it.    Now Stacey and McCallum are getting all the stick when really they were told to play narrow, allow the space and they had very little protection from the wide forwards.    

Let me inform you about McLean, he's been much better more recently for a very real reason, he was dropped to a holding midfield position first and then central defence.... in both instances, its allowed him more time and room on the ball.... interestingly, his passing has been much improved.... put him in a game when the opponent presses and denies space and he's absent.... today a case in point.     Which confirms my point, if you have a go and deny the opponent freedoms to play, they won't be so effective.    

We could have done so much more to affect that game.    Wagner failed completely.     

I'd love to hear an articulated reasoning as to how Rowe could or would have made a difference today with that set up.   

 

 

Fair points, but I'd still disagree that any of these tactics would have made a wholesale difference today.

As for Rowe, you'll get no articulated reasoning from me, other than he's one player we have who Premiership teams will be in for - as opposed to Leicester who probably have half a team full. The game reminded me a bit of Hull away, only we didn't have Rowe to make a difference.

[Segura 84]

24 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I think we needed to have possession in this game. I would have rested Barnes, played an extra midfielder and tried to dominate the ball like we did at Leeds.

Fair shout and think today showed that as much as Barnes has played a valuable role this season, we could probably do with upgrading him whatever league we're in next season.

[ged in the onion bag 856]

3 minutes ago, Segura said:

Fair points, but I'd still disagree that any of these tactics would have made a wholesale difference today.

As for Rowe, you'll get no articulated reasoning from me, other than he's one player we have who Premiership teams will be in for - as opposed to Leicester who probably have half a team full. The game reminded me a bit of Hull away, only we didn't have Rowe to make a difference.

If he keeps playing these tactics in particular matches.... Middlesboro, Leicester, then one thing is true enough.... we will lose the games.     We were winning and then drawing into the second-half.... of course we could have got a result.    But not playing that way.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,058]

2 hours ago, Channon’s Windmill said:

Still think we looked best when the Mayor was at centre back, worrying really when every combination with specialist CBs looks dire. 

It's because he's not in midfield. I agree 100%.

[sgncfc 1,233]

2 hours ago, Segura said:

I think the first option would have left us pretty exposed - their wingers were excellent and always a threat in behind. In fairness, the idea of switching Kenny to centre back did flash through my mind at one point, but I think he would get targeted against better teams.

I just think Leicester were better than us all over the park and there's not much Wagner could have done to change things.

Tactically, we set up to be compact and narrow. We forced Leicester to go wide, presumably because we knew we could defend then crosses and our fullbacks could keep them quiet. So, that worked well........

They were only better than us because we let them be - which is Wagnerball. That is his tactic. It was Middlesbrough all over again but with 11 men. Equally compliant and equally complacent. No b***s, no guts, no one caring enough to get in their faces at any point.

I don't want to watch this garbage.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

4 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Great to see you back.

Your point?