Wagner has gone nuclear

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

6 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

So if it was Barnes going off there would've been the same number boos?  That's BS mate.

It was fear through what happened at the QPR match and people afraid of throwing the match away.  But this should show people that they need to have more faith in these decisions, particularly the timing of it is clearly a change based around player wellbeing, it wasn't some kind of tactical change.

Plus anyone claiming it was defensive needs to consider how much better we looked after the subs where we had 4 players pushing in offensive areas, and Sara looked much livelier moving forwards up the pitch.  And Fasi scored the goal that took us into 6th place on GD.

Or possibly less faith in their own opinions, but otherwise completely with you.

[Google Bot 3,390]

3 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Because (and I say this as someone who didn’t boo)

How can you boo when you're sat on here posting about the match while it's being played?! 

[Big Vince 325]

56 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Supporters don’t boo. 
Those that do need to stay at home. 
 

Doesn’t seem to understand it’s his decisions being booed (rightly or wrongly). Not the team. 

The boy Sargent tells manager at half time he's feeling a bit iffy.

Manager subs him in second half.

Fans boo.

I am afraid the fans have lost all credibility on this one and rightly so. They have no clue about football and decisions in the best interests of footballers.

Little wonder the players in the dressing room afterwards were nonplussed by it all.

Wagner may have his shortcomings, but he's absolutely right on this one. 

Fans are numpties and we need new ones.

[S_81 925]

2 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Your reply is totally irrelevant to the point I was making - read the part of KieranShikari's post that I highlighted and what I said about it. If Kieran is really saying that people will start turning on the team every time we go behind in a game then I don't see how such people can call themselves supporters. This is a different (although related) debate to the one about booing the substitutions tonight.

Sorry, I missed that. Agreed re turning on the team for falling behind. Unless it’s clear zero effort was being shown. Which clearly isn’t the case with our side.

[Well b back 3,309]

51 minutes ago, S_81 said:

I don’t agree with you. It’s very clear what’s being booed. It could impact the player coming on (instead of the one not), sure. But I think you’re overplaying the impact on the team. 
Personally I wouldn’t boo that decision tonight. But I can understand the frustration with some of his decisions. 

So Sargent asked to come of as he was f*****. Do you think Wagner should have left him on ?.

[S_81 925]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

How can you boo when you're sat on here posting about the match while it's being played?! 

Because I have a phone. While at the match. It’s not rocket science. None the less I didn’t boo. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,184]

2 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

We are reaching a decisive schism now.

Rightly lots of supporters on here and in the ground are proud of the club, where it has come from and thus are accepting that sometimes things do not always go as you expect.

People also on here have rightly noted that there are a number of fans who have been supporting Norwich now only since 2010. For some that isn't that long (I've been supporting myself since 1969), but for those fans it applies to, it will seem a pretty long time. And it has largely been a period when we've spent as much time in the EPL as the EFL. And it is a time when they have come to expect a minimum standard of football to watch. And they have not seen it now for a relatively long part of that 14 year period. This has left them, having known and experienced what it can be like, very frustrated.

You can say they are being entitled about it, but that is THEIR expectation. And unfortunately everyone at the club has to acknowledge that. You cannot undo that feeling by pointing out to them what it was like back in the 60's and 70's. They won't understand that, nor want to experience it. 

But, there is a large part of the supporter base whose expectations are raised. They want EPL, they want Norwich to hold their own, they cannot see why it should any other way. 

Entitlement you say. But not in their eyes. It is what they have known and what they expect. 

Currently they do not trust the manager to meet their expectation. They will take any opportunity to let him know this. If he wants to berate them for doing so, it solves nothing.

In their eyes it is as if it were Liverpool trying to get back to the EPL from the EFL. They have no concept of little old Norwich any more. We are the biggest club in the East of England and should be dining at the top table with the likes of the dastardly big 6/7. 

Now where does the future of the club lie? With those supporters who shrug their shoulders and say it has ever been thus. Or this demanding new set of supporters who are desperate for consistently better performances, so desperate they even boo the manager over his decisions when we're winning.

Most on here won't like it, but our new incoming owner won't side with the "shoulder shruggers". He will side with those demanding the consistently better performances. 

I didn't boo today, but I was certainly unhappy with a very inconsistent performance from the team, which I lay at the feet of the manager. And no doubt the man from Milwaukee will do too. I have a feeling that Wagner will have to find a way to produce better 90 minute performances after today's farrago before the season is out, or else he will be gone.

 

If there really was such a thing as an irony meter I think this post would break it. The over entitled "I started supporting in 2010" brigade are up in arms tonight - tonight!!! - the night we got back into the play-off positions for the first time since the opening weeks of the season.

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,122]

Did Sargeant ask to come off...we know that right?

[S_81 925]

Just now, Well b back said:

So Sargent asked to come of as he was f*****. Do you think Wagner should have left him on ?.

No. He should have subbed him if so. Personally I’d have put Sydney on though. As I would have at Loftus Road. Gladly tonight had a better outcome though. 

[Capt. Pants 4,330]

I never thought I'd say this but I was more disappointed with Onel being taken off. I can understand Sarge as he was shocking but Hernandez at least got us up the pitch.

To be fair Fassnacht filled the gap Sarge left, not Van Hooijdonk.

[ron obvious 1,517]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

I never thought I'd say this but I was more disappointed with Onel being taken off. I can understand Sarge as he was shocking but Hernandez at least got us up the pitch.

To be fair Fassnacht filled the gap Sarge left, not Van Hooijdonk.

I believe he had a knock.

[Kenny Foggo 1,122]

9 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

We are reaching a decisive schism now.

Rightly lots of supporters on here and in the ground are proud of the club, where it has come from and thus are accepting that sometimes things do not always go as you expect.

People also on here have rightly noted that there are a number of fans who have been supporting Norwich now only since 2010. For some that isn't that long (I've been supporting myself since 1969), but for those fans it applies to, it will seem a pretty long time. And it has largely been a period when we've spent as much time in the EPL as the EFL. And it is a time when they have come to expect a minimum standard of football to watch. And they have not seen it now for a relatively long part of that 14 year period. This has left them, having known and experienced what it can be like, very frustrated.

You can say they are being entitled about it, but that is THEIR expectation. And unfortunately everyone at the club has to acknowledge that. You cannot undo that feeling by pointing out to them what it was like back in the 60's and 70's. They won't understand that, nor want to experience it. 

But, there is a large part of the supporter base whose expectations are raised. They want EPL, they want Norwich to hold their own, they cannot see why it should any other way. 

Entitlement you say. But not in their eyes. It is what they have known and what they expect. 

Currently they do not trust the manager to meet their expectation. They will take any opportunity to let him know this. If he wants to berate them for doing so, it solves nothing.

In their eyes it is as if it were Liverpool trying to get back to the EPL from the EFL. They have no concept of little old Norwich any more. We are the biggest club in the East of England and should be dining at the top table with the likes of the dastardly big 6/7. 

Now where does the future of the club lie? With those supporters who shrug their shoulders and say it has ever been thus. Or this demanding new set of supporters who are desperate for consistently better performances, so desperate they even boo the manager over his decisions when we're winning.

Most on here won't like it, but our new incoming owner won't side with the "shoulder shruggers". He will side with those demanding the consistently better performances. 

I didn't boo today, but I was certainly unhappy with a very inconsistent performance from the team, which I lay at the feet of the manager. And no doubt the man from Milwaukee will do too. I have a feeling that Wagner will have to find a way to produce better 90 minute performances after today's farrago before the season is out, or else he will be gone.

 

Great articulate abuse free post my friend... more of it I say!

[Well b back 3,309]

1 minute ago, S_81 said:

No. He should have subbed him if so. Personally I’d have put Sydney on though. As I would have at Loftus Road. Gladly tonight had a better outcome though. 

Good job he’s the manager and you aren’t then. 
Let’s hope he just lied, because if he didn’t, then the players are turning as well against the boo boys. 
 

[Well b back 3,309]

3 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I never thought I'd say this but I was more disappointed with Onel being taken off. I can understand Sarge as he was shocking but Hernandez at least got us up the pitch.

To be fair Fassnacht filled the gap Sarge left, not Van Hooijdonk.

Unless Wagner lied, Hernandez also asked to come off ?

[repman 642]

In general I agree with Wagner’s point. I’ve agreed with posts on here over the years that the atmosphere post-covid has been really bad, though that’s not to say that things have been in any way acceptable (I’d have sacked Wagner a long time ago if I had my way!).
 

I don’t think booing is ever really the right thing to do. Especially for a substitution too. I can however see why some fans decided to do so, at the end of the day football fans are emotional, anyone who was watching would’ve immediately thought back to the weekend and what happened there. 

I also think Wagner’s comments tonight reflect the attitude of the senior staff at the club towards the fans since covid. There’s always been an air of we know best coming from the boardroom, sporting director and coaching staff, even when it was apparent that things were heading south. 

[Capt. Pants 4,330]

7 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I believe he had a knock.

Looked OK to me. Did Wagner say this??

 

Edited February 13 by Capt. Pants

[ron obvious 1,517]

Classic case of a team being unbelievably successful with a charismatic manager & no money.

The disappointment has been palpable since our last failure in the PL. 

It won't change until people learn to manage their expectations. Which isn't going to happen.

[S_81 925]

3 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Good job he’s the manager and you aren’t then. 
Let’s hope he just lied, because if he didn’t, then the players are turning as well against the boo boys. 
 

Well, good job tonight yes. Not so on Saturday 

[C.I.D 310]

8 minutes ago, S_81 said:

Because I have a phone. While at the match. It’s not rocket science. None the less I didn’t boo. 

Hmmm....multi-tasking is to be admired for sure ................

[Capt. Pants 4,330]

Just now, Well b back said:

Unless Wagner lied, Hernandez also asked to come off ?

Having 2 players asking to come off seems unlikely. Onel was actually doing ok and getting stuck in. Sarge was hardly moving, just don't know what his problem is.

[chicken 2,680]

3 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

We are reaching a decisive schism now.

Rightly lots of supporters on here and in the ground are proud of the club, where it has come from and thus are accepting that sometimes things do not always go as you expect.

People also on here have rightly noted that there are a number of fans who have been supporting Norwich now only since 2010. For some that isn't that long (I've been supporting myself since 1969), but for those fans it applies to, it will seem a pretty long time. And it has largely been a period when we've spent as much time in the EPL as the EFL. And it is a time when they have come to expect a minimum standard of football to watch. And they have not seen it now for a relatively long part of that 14 year period. This has left them, having known and experienced what it can be like, very frustrated.

You can say they are being entitled about it, but that is THEIR expectation. And unfortunately everyone at the club has to acknowledge that. You cannot undo that feeling by pointing out to them what it was like back in the 60's and 70's. They won't understand that, nor want to experience it. 

But, there is a large part of the supporter base whose expectations are raised. They want EPL, they want Norwich to hold their own, they cannot see why it should any other way. 

Entitlement you say. But not in their eyes. It is what they have known and what they expect. 

Currently they do not trust the manager to meet their expectation. They will take any opportunity to let him know this. If he wants to berate them for doing so, it solves nothing.

In their eyes it is as if it were Liverpool trying to get back to the EPL from the EFL. They have no concept of little old Norwich any more. We are the biggest club in the East of England and should be dining at the top table with the likes of the dastardly big 6/7. 

Now where does the future of the club lie? With those supporters who shrug their shoulders and say it has ever been thus. Or this demanding new set of supporters who are desperate for consistently better performances, so desperate they even boo the manager over his decisions when we're winning.

Most on here won't like it, but our new incoming owner won't side with the "shoulder shruggers". He will side with those demanding the consistently better performances. 

I didn't boo today, but I was certainly unhappy with a very inconsistent performance from the team, which I lay at the feet of the manager. And no doubt the man from Milwaukee will do too. I have a feeling that Wagner will have to find a way to produce better 90 minute performances after today's farrago before the season is out, or else he will be gone.

 

You profess to know what people are expressing though. I suspect by being of a similar position you are assuming it's for the same reason/motivation. I don't think it is.

I don't think 'trust' comes into it.

Norwich has had these moments over the last 24yrs. Worthington got a lot of grief yet in hindsight, he got us within a goal of staying up, one draw into a win and we'd have stayed up with a very low cost well drilled side.

Upon relegation it go utterly bonkers amongst a very vocal minority (empty vessels).

Now yes, young folks may not remember that. But it is exactly the job of those longer in the tooth to remind them of the more recent past (more recent than the '80's even). It is important to stay grounded and to see the bigger picture.

I actually think confidence is the word you are looking for.

I think everyone knows the defensive side of our squad has been the weak link since Webber and Farke arrived. As a whole team it's never been great. I think Barnes is an improvement in knowing how to slow the game, niggle oponnents, break up their rhythm and flow etc. He's not a defender, but like Holt, he knows the impact of distraction.

We might be 'unconvincing' but crap teams don't tend to thump Watford 4-2. 

[Monty13 2,280]

29 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Then you're clearly not one of the people he's talking about and don't want to be one of the people he's talking about. So why are you taking against him in favour of the people he was talking about?

You don’t get it do you?

People aren’t talking in favour of them or against him.

The disconnect exists. You can pretend it doesn’t, you can argue it shouldn’t… but it does.

It can’t be fixed by pretending it doesn’t/shouldn’t or by continuously throwing fuel on the fire.

[ron obvious 1,517]

8 minutes ago, S_81 said:

No. He should have subbed him if so. Personally I’d have put Sydney on though. As I would have at Loftus Road. Gladly tonight had a better outcome though. 

Based on what? Based on what I saw tonight my opinion is that VH will need a bit more time to get up to speed & be useful.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

You don’t get it do you?

People aren’t talking in favour of them or against him.

The disconnect exists. You can pretend it doesn’t, you can argue it shouldn’t… but it does.

It can’t be fixed by pretending it doesn’t/shouldn’t or by continuously throwing fuel on the fire.

The disconnect is with a minority of malcontents who won't allow any positivity at all, no matter what happens. They are the problem with this club.

Edited February 13 by littleyellowbirdie

[S_81 925]

5 minutes ago, repman said:

In general I agree with Wagner’s point. I’ve agreed with posts on here over the years that the atmosphere post-covid has been really bad, though that’s not to say that things have been in any way acceptable (I’d have sacked Wagner a long time ago if I had my way!).
 

I don’t think booing is ever really the right thing to do. Especially for a substitution too. I can however see why some fans decided to do so, at the end of the day football fans are emotional, anyone who was watching would’ve immediately thought back to the weekend and what happened there. 

I also think Wagner’s comments tonight reflect the attitude of the senior staff at the club towards the fans since covid. There’s always been an air of we know best coming from the boardroom, sporting director and coaching staff, even when it was apparent that things were heading south. 

Great post 

[Capt. Pants 4,330]

Just now, ron obvious said:

Based on what? Based on what I saw tonight my opinion is that VH will need a bit more time to get up to speed & be useful.

Why have we loaned Idah out to be replaced with someone who needs more time? Makes no sense.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,614]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

Why have we loaned Idah out to be replaced with someone who needs more time? Makes no sense.

Probably so Idah would become more popular at the club.

[Kenny Foggo 1,122]

1 minute ago, S_81 said:

Great post 

Agree

[S_81 925]

2 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Based on what? Based on what I saw tonight my opinion is that VH will need a bit more time to get up to speed & be useful.

Based on the fact that Barnes was looking exhausted at QPR and at 2.1 it really looked like we could kill them off. Like for like would have been better in that context, IMO. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,122]

1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

Why have we loaned Idah out to be replaced with someone who needs more time? Makes no sense.

You don't always buy a striker for the immediate future...