Barbe bleu 832 Posted January 11 17 hours ago, Herman said: The initial shock and outrage will quickly get replaced by the very slow and ponderous parliament, courts and inquiries. The outrage will dissipate... Given that the inquiry, which has been hearing evidence since February 2022, was set up in 2019 after the high court came to its findings and five years after parliament started looking seriously into the issue I think that is a good guess. There is nothing remotely new about this other than the drama caught the public mood. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 2,592 Posted January 12 (edited) It wasn't that long ago that there was a really excellent BBC radio 4 series covering this. I wonder how much that inspired the writer of this TV drama? Remarkable how things can sometimes be slow to penetrate the public consciousness, but they'll get there in the end. Edited January 12 by littleyellowbirdie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,980 Posted January 12 (edited) 4 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said: It wasn't that long ago that there was a really excellent BBC radio 4 series covering this. I wonder how much that inspired the writer of this TV drama? Remarkable how things can sometimes be slow to penetrate the public consciousness, but they'll get there in the end. Inspired by both the radio series and a very good book on the subject by Nick Wallis. As you say, the reasons why the series has affected the public are interesting. Firstly it was brilliantly cast with popular actors who did a superb job. It is also very easy to understand and perhaps most importantly many watching will have quickly realised that the victims were/are ordinary people just like them. Perhaps another issue is that the the story isn't politically divisive but the bad guy is simply the Establishment generally. I'm uneasy using that word because I'm not sure what the Establishment is but I'm pretty sure that the Great British public are absolutely sick of it. I suppose it was also very well timed. Christmas and New Year is usually slow for news but a lot of us have time on their hands to watch TV. The fact that 9m people watched it is extraordinary in this age. Am I the only one who watched purely because Toby Jones was in it? As a footnote, I listened to the Public Enquiry yesterday. A lead Post Office investigator was questioned and halfway through told the most blatant lie imagineable. It was so bad that the KC asked him to repeat his answer a further two times. He hardly covered himself in glory throughout but that single lie will have led everyone to doubt everything else he had said. Edited January 12 by dylanisabaddog 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Angry 1,571 Posted January 12 Wait til people wake up to the contaminated blood scandal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,822 Posted January 12 21 minutes ago, Mr Angry said: Wait til people wake up to the contaminated blood scandal. Yep. How many years has that been dragged out for? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Angry 1,571 Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Herman said: Yep. How many years has that been dragged out for? The inquiry started in 2018 and finished in 2023-I don’t think anybody started to receive compensation until 2022 and I don’t think anyone has received the full amount yet. Over 4,500 people were infected, and over 3,000 have died-although given that the blood transfusions started in 1970 some of these may have died by now anyway. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 832 Posted January 12 11 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said: Perhaps another issue is that the the story isn't politically divisive but the bad guy is simply the Establishment generally. I'm uneasy using that word because I'm not sure what the Establishment is... Yes, you might be onto something with this. When matters are party political blinkers and microscopes come out and people are genuinely blind to their own prejudices. But this is different- with a small an exception for Ed Davey, this isn't really about party politics and everyone can form an unencumbered view. I think you are also right about this being regarded as an 'us against them' issue. We can see ourselves in the postmaster shoes- we dont relate to multinationals and corporate board members so easily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 832 Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Mr Angry said: The inquiry started in 2018 and finished in 2023-I don’t think anybody started to receive compensation until 2022 and I don’t think anyone has received the full amount yet. Over 4,500 people were infected, and over 3,000 have died-although given that the blood transfusions started in 1970 some of these may have died by now anyway. That's one example bit you could have picked any number of these. And in a lot of cases they tell us nothing we didn't already know. Its almost as though some are purely performative. £400 million and 12 years to tell us what happened on bloody Sunday? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,277 Posted January 12 It seems that The Post Office have been deducting compensation payments from their profits. It is illegal to deduct any compensation or fines from your profits. Tax advisors are suggesting the Post Office owe £100,000,000 yes one hundred million in unpaid taxes. No wonder this Country is such a f****** mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted January 12 (edited) 6 hours ago, Barbe bleu said: £400 million and 12 years to tell us what happened on bloody Sunday? I'd have told you what happened on Bloody Sunday for the price of a couple of pints. Trouble is, some of you twats have a hard time accepting the truth when it contravenes your small-minded, jingoistic prejudices. 23 hours ago, Barbe bleu said: There is nothing remotely new about this other than the drama caught the public mood. And the Tories sudden change of opinion now it's caught the public mood. They've gone from giving a CBE and high profile job to one of the main perpetrators of the injustice to suddenly acting like they give a **** about the poor bastards whose lives were ripped apart. Embarrassing. Edited January 12 by canarydan23 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted January 12 I'd like to say it's not an exclusive Tory issue because Tony Blair was made aware of it prior to its rollout but still waved it through, on advice of Epstein's buddy Mandleson. But we all know what they are, don't we? Imagine if Starmer had been given the opportunity to stop it. He wouldn't have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted January 12 On 07/01/2024 at 12:15, dylanisabaddog said: Sunak has today described this scandal as "happening long ago in the 1990's". Absolutely extraordinary. The 700+ prosecutions were between 1999 and 2015. This gets my goat… instead of any holding hands up and taking responsibility to sort the mess the first instinct was to deflect. Appreciate much of that was the biased media flinging around the mud but still a sad reflection of how party politics and weak governance at the hands of the capitalist masters has held back real progress in this country. Fully expecting a whole year of this nonsense toned right up now the current bunch of cronies seem to have been found out by enough of the electorate to finally vote them out. I first knew about all this when a friends dad was implicated around 10 years ago and was amazed by how it had been allowed to drag on like this when it was so obvious what was going on even then. I understand the initial error since there was trust issues there which was part of the reason for the system to be brought in but surely someone with the slightest understanding of statistics could see something badly wrong pretty early on and at least have not condemned the postmasters to dodgy guilty verdicts. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,277 Posted January 13 9 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said: This gets my goat… instead of any holding hands up and taking responsibility to sort the mess the first instinct was to deflect. Appreciate much of that was the biased media flinging around the mud but still a sad reflection of how party politics and weak governance at the hands of the capitalist masters has held back real progress in this country. Fully expecting a whole year of this nonsense toned right up now the current bunch of cronies seem to have been found out by enough of the electorate to finally vote them out. I first knew about all this when a friends dad was implicated around 10 years ago and was amazed by how it had been allowed to drag on like this when it was so obvious what was going on even then. I understand the initial error since there was trust issues there which was part of the reason for the system to be brought in but surely someone with the slightest understanding of statistics could see something badly wrong pretty early on and at least have not condemned the postmasters to dodgy guilty verdicts. They have acted now to get votes in the upcoming election, simple. That Panorama programme was far more hard hitting, and they did nothing more than arrange an enquiry. They were the real people, and the public in general don’t watch Panorama. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,277 Posted January 13 The tax avoiding is in this article. I believe the bit about the executives is that done the way they did it, they did not meet targets, so should have repaid the bonuses. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67964064 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,980 Posted January 13 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Well b back said: The tax avoiding is in this article. I believe the bit about the executives is that done the way they did it, they did not meet targets, so should have repaid the bonuses. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67964064 PWC strike again https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/12/disgraceful-breach-of-trust-how-pwc-one-of-the-worlds-biggest-accountancy-firms-became-mired-in-a-tax-scandal It's unusual to include an accounting note to say there is a possibility of a future debt but not include a provision for that debt in the accounts. It won't just be the compensation that isn't allowable. All the legal fees attached to that compensation would be doubtful as well. Those fees are enormous. The Post Office even spent £1m trying to have a Judge reused because they alleged he was biased. Both the Post Office and PWC have some explaining to do. Edited January 13 by dylanisabaddog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 832 Posted January 13 2 hours ago, Well b back said: They have acted now to get votes in the upcoming election, simple. That Panorama programme was far more hard hitting, and they did nothing more than arrange an enquiry. They were the real people, and the public in general don’t watch Panorama. They didn't arrange an inquiry in repaonse to the programme. That's been running since 2019 and in flow since 2022. What they did was (rightly) shout loudly 'nothing to do with me' and put legislation to have all convictions quashed on the table. They could have done that anytime, it's been done now for political reasons. Whether it's the right thing delivered too late or the wrong thing is a matter for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,980 Posted January 13 2 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said: They didn't arrange an inquiry in repaonse to the programme. That's been running since 2019 and in flow since 2022. What they did was (rightly) shout loudly 'nothing to do with me' and put legislation to have all convictions quashed on the table. They could have done that anytime, it's been done now for political reasons. Whether it's the right thing delivered too late or the wrong thing is a matter for you. I take your point but I do have an issue with how the matter is being handled at the moment. I listened to a lady on BBC radio in the week who had been found guilty of something she didn't do, lost her home and life savings and served 3 months in prison. Her compensation offer includes £5,000 for mental anguish. I don't know who to blame for that but shouldn't the Government have very quickly apologised and added a couple of noughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 832 Posted January 13 (edited) 25 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said: I take your point but I do have an issue with how the matter is being handled at the moment. I listened to a lady on BBC radio in the week who had been found guilty of something she didn't do, lost her home and life savings and served 3 months in prison. Her compensation offer includes £5,000 for mental anguish. I don't know who to blame for that but shouldn't the Government have very quickly apologised and added a couple of noughts? Devil is in the detail of course but £5000 sounds way too little. There is some talk about the government having set aside £1billion for the overall package, no idea if that is true but that sounds about right to me. I dont really blame the politicians of any flavour for this, but I do think that everything (not just in the PO scandal) happens so so slowly and it always seems that the only ones that come out on top are the lawyers. Edited January 13 by Barbe bleu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,980 Posted January 13 7 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said: Devil is in the detail of course but £5000 sounds way too little. There is some talk about the government having set aside £1billion for the overall package, no idea if that is true but that sounds about right to me. I dont really blame the politicians of any flavour for this, but I do think that everything (not just in the PO scandal) happens so so slowly and it always seems that the only ones that come out on top are the lawyers. The amount of £1bn apparently includes legal fees. So someone is obviously doing very well out of all this...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,824 Posted January 13 5 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said: I dont really blame the politicians of any flavour for this, but I do think that everything (not just in the PO scandal) happens so so slowly and it always seems that the only ones that come out on top are the lawyers. I sometimes think all involved should be imprisoned until they get it sorted. PO managers, lawyers, judges and politicians too. It would be sorted overnight not ten years! Too many people in 9-5 secure jobs not caring enough ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,980 Posted January 13 Sunak’s new cellmate. "hello Rishi, would you like to be Mummy or Daddy?" Sunak (banging frantically on the door) "get me out of here and give them £1m each" @Yellow feveryou may have a point 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 832 Posted January 13 1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said: Sunak’s new cellmate. "hello Rishi, would you like to be Mummy or Daddy?" Sunak (banging frantically on the door) "get me out of here and give them £1m each" @Yellow feveryou may have a point You joke about it but there might be something in the basic point any post master wrongly convicted can take £600,000 no questions asked if they agree that's the end of it. £175,000 if they were caught up but not convicted. If this scheme was set up in 2019 after the high court judgment we'd have saved a lot of money and delay. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foxy2600 305 Posted January 13 Seems Bliar and his right hand man Mandy knew all about the problems with Horizon. But the then Trade and Industry Secretary went ahead anyway... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,220 Posted January 13 7 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said: Seems Bliar and his right hand man Mandy knew all about the problems with Horizon. But the then Trade and Industry Secretary went ahead anyway... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495 There was no indication at this stage that the Horizon software would lead to wrongful accusations of theft but there were concerns about its reliability and ballooning cost. Why didn't you read the link you posted, it's totally unrelated to the problems the SPM's had, you're so desperate to implicate Blair & Mandelson that you're prepared to make yourself look stupid. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,980 Posted January 13 6 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said: There was no indication at this stage that the Horizon software would lead to wrongful accusations of theft but there were concerns about its reliability and ballooning cost. Why didn't you read the link you posted, it's totally unrelated to the problems the SPM's had, you're so desperate to implicate Blair & Mandelson that you're prepared to make yourself look stupid. He is indeed being very silly. No politician on either side would have ignored this if they were in possession of the full facts. Johnson and Sunak have been neglectful but I'm sure they'd claim to have had other things to worry about. The simple fact is that the fault lays almost entirely with the people at the top of the Post Office. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,332 Posted January 13 On 10/01/2024 at 23:20, Well b back said: That was even more hard hitting than the ITV programme, they were the actual people, not actors. Why the hell were actors believed and not the postmasters and mistresses. That's the power of good story telling and why movies are so popular Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,332 Posted January 13 On 10/01/2024 at 16:31, dylanisabaddog said: Oh dear. Starmer went to Oxford because he is highly intelligent. He earned his place on merit and he studied Law. You don't understand how Eton works do you? I didn't say he wasn't intelligent. Many of the Tory cabinet went to Oxbridge so we have to presume they are intelligent too. And perhaps we can infer then that intelligence and competence are not strongly correlated. Seeing the light yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,980 Posted January 13 14 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said: I didn't say he wasn't intelligent. Many of the Tory cabinet went to Oxbridge so we have to presume they are intelligent too. And perhaps we can infer then that intelligence and competence are not strongly correlated. Seeing the light yet? Err no. You don't understand how Oxford works. They take anyone from Eton because they get donations from their parents. Then they take the very intelligent ones from state schools to make their results look better. Oxford produces some extraordinary people but you should remember that it marks its own pupils which is why Johnson has a degree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foxy2600 305 Posted January 13 2 hours ago, A Load of Squit said: There was no indication at this stage that the Horizon software would lead to wrongful accusations of theft but there were concerns about its reliability and ballooning cost. Why didn't you read the link you posted, it's totally unrelated to the problems the SPM's had, you're so desperate to implicate Blair & Mandelson that you're prepared to make yourself look stupid. I wasn’t? I couldn’t believe your beloved BBC would lead with a headline like that - but anyways… you apparently understand me or my persona whereas I make no comments about other people on this 3rd rate Football chat room Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,980 Posted January 13 6 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said: I wasn’t? I couldn’t believe your beloved BBC would lead with a headline like that - but anyways… you apparently understand me or my persona whereas I make no comments about other people on this 3rd rate Football chat room Is "anyways" a new word? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
