European Super League judgement day

[Ian 1,136]

5 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The dream game for tv is a competitive game between Real Madrid and Manchester United. I read an article recently that suggested the total revenue from advertising and pay per view could top £1bn worldwide. 

I'd watch it smirking on a naughty box with no guilt whatsoever. 

Is that sustainable though? On a one-off basis perhaps it would attract that sort of revenue as it's an uncommon matchup, but if they're doing it twice a year every year?

[dylanisabaddog 4,969]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

Is that sustainable though? On a one-off basis perhaps it would attract that sort of revenue as it's an uncommon matchup, but if they're doing it twice a year every year?

I don't see why not. Those two clubs have enormous support around the world. Madrid in South America and United in Asia. Once PPV is allowed there would be huge interest. It's why Americans have been buying our clubs. 

[cornish sam 960]

So being a pedant about this, the ruling is only in relation to uefa and FIFA, the individual, national leagues can still apply their own rules...

[Newtopia 519]

The ruling seems to enable cream and jam for the large clubs - hard to see them not fielding side in the EPL and the ESL.  The rush will just continue to get richer.

[dylanisabaddog 4,969]

3 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

So being a pedant about this, the ruling is only in relation to uefa and FIFA, the individual, national leagues can still apply their own rules...

No. A precedent has been set and it will apply across the board. Any challenge would end up in the European Court which would follow its previous judgement. 

[shefcanary 2,441]

I struggle with this ruling. I think I need a barrister to help me here, or some brighter legal minds on here?

I thought all FIFA / EPL did was to say, sure go ahead and start your own league, but when you do you forfeit the right to play in our competitions. Is this court now saying the big clubs can have their cake and eat it? What would be the benefit of the big clubs staying in their respective domestic leagues? The only issue I think is that their players could no longer represent their countries in FIFA & UEFA competitions, which would lose them a degree of marketing of their players and thus their new competition. But as with golf and PGA v LIV, all that would happen is the big clubs would just introduce their own World and European Cup, if that is the way it goes. Eventually their financial might would drive FIFA and UEFA back to the negotiating table (as with golf), but at least our domestic competitions would be operating on a more level playing field, albeit with a less marketable product, but hopefully with more fun and challenge.

Nope, totally confused by the ruling. 

 

[RobJames 883]

23 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

The plan was to give some clubs elite status which would guarantee clubs like R Madrid, Barca, B Munich, Man U, Man City etc. a place in the ESL whilst giving limited promotion possibilities to other clubs.

It's a stitch up but they'll say that the 'elite' clubs deserve their places and that they are also making it competitive.

Which would merely replicate the charade that is the PL. 14 clubs making up the numbers to give the illusion that it is a competition.

Take away that fig leaf, and it would be shown for what it is. Yes, there is a market for one off games, but history has shown they are never more than one offs. Man Utd v Barcelona..... for the 4th time this year. Would players really want to be stuck in this groundhog day of televised  pointlessness ?

I cannot see how the annual round of big clubs play in Europe and receive huge TV money enabling them to qualify for Europe whereby they receive huge sums of money etc can be broken.Too many snouts in the trough.   the other 14 should stop deluding themselves. they may make the odd breakthrough (Leicester) but at what cost. What cost the the endles numbers of mnoths who burn after dancing around the hot bulb. The Championship is littered with them. Some propped up by money from the US under the belief that UK football mirrors their US costume dramas.

A post by Broadstairs highlights this, where the delusion is that huge sums can be made by expanding what happens at the clubs stadiums.There are only so many concerts, hot dog and scarf sales.. Checkout Saturdays opponents Huddersfield.

[RobJames 883]

4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

What would be the benefit of the big clubs staying in their respective domestic leagues?

 

The reason for their existence. Take away the title of English champions and what do you have. Groundhog Day, whereby there is no incentive to i, prove as you are guaranteed your place in this super league.

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

2 hours ago, Barham Blitz said:

I'm not sure of this is an analogy for the acceptance of change or if your neighbours occasionally wonder about the muffled noises coming from your basement ...

LMAO, acceptance of change mate

[shefcanary 2,441]

2 minutes ago, RobJames said:

The reason for their existence. Take away the title of English champions and what do you have. Groundhog Day, whereby there is no incentive to i, prove as you are guaranteed your place in this super league.

Groundhog day doesn't stop Rangers / Celtic having millions poured into them - in the proposed ESL it was 6 times the supposed big boys, much more competitive than SPL. I agree it was why they panicked originally, but I think now the seeds have been sown, the fans of those big clubs will not react the same if it happened again. Yes there will be pockets of people with objections, but like with Everton and Bramley Moore, once the majority are up for it they will be drowned out - unlike our 20% of whingers. 

[Monty13 2,241]

38 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

No. A precedent has been set and it will apply across the board. Any challenge would end up in the European Court which would follow its previous judgement. 

U.K. Law would apply to the PL not E.U.

[The Real Buh 3,464]

If the big clubs could, you know, skidouchhh so to speak. Those of us that are left (real football fans and clubs, not that WWE style weird premier league crap) can go about rebuilding football and restoring it.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,771]

Are you a star, gold or blue leauge fan? I for one welcome our new blue league. Let's go blue league!🙃

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[shefcanary 2,441]

1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Are you a star, gold or blue leauge fan? I for one welcome our new blue league. Let's go blue league!🙃

 

That has to be a bluff surely? 

[The Real Buh 3,464]

The money involved in a European superleague is as-tro-nomical. It’s a train you can’t stop. Norwich can chill though basically just let it happen. I think even if we were cut off it would be fine tbh, our income would probably decrease but it would be relative to our league opponents.

[Number9 272]

Just now, The Real Buh said:

The money involved in a European superleague is as-tro-nomical. It’s a train you can’t stop. Norwich can chill though basically just let it happen. I think even if we were cut off it would be fine tbh, our income would probably decrease but it would be relative to our league opponents.

Surely the money would be greater than Premier League teams get at present,  although it would be astronomical to the teams from the other European League's.

[The Real Buh 3,464]

Just now, Number9 said:

Surely the money would be greater than Premier League teams get at present,  although it would be astronomical to the teams from the other European League's.

That’s what I mean. Chelsea don’t particularly want to waste their time and money playing luton and their fans would rather see them play Juventus or whatever

[RobJames 883]

19 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Groundhog day doesn't stop Rangers / Celtic having millions poured into them - in the proposed ESL it was 6 times the supposed big boys, much more competitive than SPL. I agree it was why they panicked originally, but I think now the seeds have been sown, the fans of those big clubs will not react the same if it happened again. Yes there will be pockets of people with objections, but like with Everton and Bramley Moore, once the majority are up for it they will be drowned out - unlike our 20% of whingers. 

Rangers and Celtic are in their national league. As said, the rest of the PL need to tell then to fark off, by simply resigning from the PL. Again the power lies with the latter NOT the former. It is if one partner wants to go live with someone else but still enjoy the benefits of the former home, partner and sex.

And the idea that clubs can fit in another full fixture list from one of these proposed 3 divisions is beyond absurd

[Ulfotto 641]

I feel it is really in the premier league clubs ball park whether this happens or not. The money involved for the rest of Europe who are all broke anyway from trying to compete with the premier league is impossible to ignore.

It a good job the premier league clubs are owned by good people oh wait this will happen….

Would be interesting if any football association and clubs have the guts to say money isn’t everything and that competitive football played in front of passionate crowds is a good product without all bells and whistles.

[Number9 272]

Just now, The Real Buh said:

That’s what I mean. Chelsea don’t particularly want to waste their time and money playing luton and their fans would rather see them play Juventus or whatever

Yeah, get that, Luton or Norwich you could say.

The driving force behind seems to me, the big European teams trying to tap into the financial success of the Premier League & get some of the ££ for themselves. 

[RobJames 883]

6 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

That’s what I mean. Chelsea don’t particularly want to waste their time and money playing luton and their fans would rather see them play Juventus or whatever

The opposite. To have both these leagues running in unison would remove the ability for away fans to travel. What connection would there really be to be playing relatively obscure East European clubs. Is there an appetite for going to games possible double the amount as now ?

[cornish sam 960]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67787981

 

Well that didn't take long....

 

How does a 16 team league co-exist with domestic leagues considering the fixture congestion the top clubs already complain about? Let alone a 32 team league!

[dylanisabaddog 4,969]

22 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

U.K. Law would apply to the PL not E.U.

Not really. It would be highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would take a different view, especially as the laws that the European Court used are in the main still part of our legislation. 

This ruling doesn't mean that there will be a Super League as it was previously proposed but it does mean that the big clubs in Europe still intend to go ahead. 

Once it does happen (and it will) it will take revenue away from the EPL. Our clubs would be desperate to join them, particularly in view of the large number of American owners. This is why they bought in in the first place. 

I'd be very happy with a 20 club league but what is now being whispered is an 80 club league. Someone above has laughed at my suggestion that might include us. I don't hear Mr Attanasio laughing. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,969]

1 minute ago, cornish sam said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67787981

 

Well that didn't take long....

 

How does a 16 team league co-exist with domestic leagues considering the fixture congestion the top clubs already complain about? Let alone a 32 team league!

A 64 club league would take us out of it although it's clear that England would take the majority of places. 

[Osborne17 11]

The most comical line in the statement is:

"Fans would also be able to watch live matches for free on a new digital streaming platform."

Sure, offer it for free for the first season or two... get them hooked, but it will soon go to PPV, which is where the money is.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Osborne17
spelling mistake

[dylanisabaddog 4,969]

9 minutes ago, RobJames said:

The opposite. To have both these leagues running in unison would remove the ability for away fans to travel. What connection would there really be to be playing relatively obscure East European clubs. Is there an appetite for going to games possible double the amount as now ?

Relatively obscure East European clubs are unlikely to be involved. This will predominantly be a Western European competition. 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 451]

12 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

A 64 club league would take us out of it although it's clear that England would take the majority of places. 

A majority of 64 is 33 or more.

We're 30th in the league.

[Monty13 2,241]

14 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Not really. It would be highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would take a different view, especially as the laws that the European Court used are in the main still part of our legislation. 

This ruling doesn't mean that there will be a Super League as it was previously proposed but it does mean that the big clubs in Europe still intend to go ahead. 

Once it does happen (and it will) it will take revenue away from the EPL. Our clubs would be desperate to join them, particularly in view of the large number of American owners. This is why they bought in in the first place. 

I'd be very happy with a 20 club league but what is now being whispered is an 80 club league. Someone above has laughed at my suggestion that might include us. I don't hear Mr Attanasio laughing. 

Depends on what they were ruling. I haven’t read into the ruling in depth but it seems like the ruling is based on them being anticompetitive, presumably due to their Champions League ownership.

If PL clubs vote to eject Super League clubs I’m not sure the same arguments apply. The situations aren’t directly similar.

[PurpleCanary 5,578]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

I struggle with this ruling. I think I need a barrister to help me here, or some brighter legal minds on here?

I thought all FIFA / EPL did was to say, sure go ahead and start your own league, but when you do you forfeit the right to play in our competitions. Is this court now saying the big clubs can have their cake and eat it? What would be the benefit of the big clubs staying in their respective domestic leagues? The only issue I think is that their players could no longer represent their countries in FIFA & UEFA competitions, which would lose them a degree of marketing of their players and thus their new competition. But as with golf and PGA v LIV, all that would happen is the big clubs would just introduce their own World and European Cup, if that is the way it goes. Eventually their financial might would drive FIFA and UEFA back to the negotiating table (as with golf), but at least our domestic competitions would be operating on a more level playing field, albeit with a less marketable product, but hopefully with more fun and challenge.

Nope, totally confused by the ruling. 

 

Shef, as I sort of suspected before the ruling came out, the judgment is that Uefa/Fifa are potentially unlawfully restraining the ability of clubs (and arguably even the players) to operate as they wish. But the caveat is that the judges are saying Uefa might still have the right to veto any such competition.

But the big difference now, going by the reports, is that unlike all the previous proposals, which although called a league were in fact a cup competition to replace the Champions League, this seems actually to be much more like a league, with promotion and relegation. But the remaining constant is that the clubs would still compete in their national leagues. Assuming the national leagues either agree, or find out that legally they cannot challenge that.

However the promotion and relegation aspect is interesting, because you would have clubs budgeting for life in, say, the top division finding their income drops with relegaton, or clubs in the bottom tier finding it falls off a cliff.

Edited December 21, 2023 by PurpleCanary

[Nuff Said 5,157]

19 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

How does a 16 team league co-exist with domestic leagues considering the fixture congestion the top clubs already complain about? Let alone a 32 team league!

This. I get that the biggest clubs would have a squad that, with rotation, could allow participation in both the European and domestic leagues, but for those in the “Blue” competition with 32 clubs it’s completely unrealistic.