You're Getting Sacked In The Morning.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

Just now, Mason 47 said:

I don't think you particularly need a world-changing innovator to come in as manager.

As a microcosm, take the Idah > Gibbs substitution last night; I understand completely the logical reason behind it, as Gibbs is much more agile & will run for days (we were unable to press efficiently) and if Hwang is now injured there's a pressing need to keep Idah healthy. However, it is a much over-complicated change making wonky use of playing assets in favour of theoretical fit; we aren't in a position currently where theoretical works. In the same manner of thinking, Duffy should be playing in place of Hernandez because he would hold the ball up well.

Stop playing square pegs in a round system. It doesn't seem to me to be rocket science. The Wagner bounce-pass system through Hernandez has been an uncomfortable fit since last season, for example, yet we see it basically every game. The players look like a squad of Plachetas at the moment, whom you could hear making a dial-up tone playing under Farke as he tried to remember his tactical instructions.

Now they all look like that, which says to me we need to simplify what we're doing. This squad is not a bottom-rung Championship outfit, I completely believe, but we're dead in the water until we get real.

Only a world-changing innovator is going to exorcise the ghost of Daniel Farke for a lot of fans by the looks of it. It's another reason for prospective managers not to want the job.

[KeiranShikari 1,420]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There's simply no strategic value to the club of changing now and there's no likelihood of any credible candidate being attracted to take the position at the moment.

No strategic value in replacing a manager that's won 3 in 13 (2 of those wins being lucky to say the least)? Sure.

Doesn't need to be a name or an experienced candidate. There are plenty of managers in world football that would jump at the chance to manage this club in the Championship.

The only way not replacing him makes sense at this point is if we have a manager lined up that's seeing out his contract somewhere. 

[Hairy Canary 704]

9 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It could be disastrous, but in all likelihood won't be. We know injuries have had a massive negative impact and a replacement will have those same issues to contend with. 4 wins in the next 28 games is probably enough for survival and there's no way we'll get less than that, however poor we think we are at the moment. Even on current form, it's not going to be as bad as that.

There's simply no strategic value to the club of changing now and there's no likelihood of any credible candidate being attracted to take the position at the moment.

All fair points and I hope you’re right. 
 

I’ve seen teams “sleepwalking to relegation” before though and truly I feel we are on the verge of being in a very bad place. The main saviour are the three teams at the bottom who are absolutely terrible.  That and we have some serious improvement to come when some of the injured return. 

For me the decision not to make a change is not worth the risk. Things can get worse!

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Hairy Canary

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

Just now, Hairy Canary said:

 The main saviour are the three teams at the bottom who are absolutely terrible.  That and we have some serious improvement to come when some of the injured return. 

 

 

Exactly. This is a nothing season and there's absolutely no strategic benefit to bringing in new manager now to be tarred by the prevailing negativity.

A squad refresh under a new SD with a clean slate in the summer with a new manager with a clean slate and a full preseason to prepare is what the club needs.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

15 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

No strategic value in replacing a manager that's won 3 in 13 (2 of those wins being lucky to say the least)? Sure.

Doesn't need to be a name or an experienced candidate. There are plenty of managers in world football that would jump at the chance to manage this club in the Championship.

The only way not replacing him makes sense at this point is if we have a manager lined up that's seeing out his contract somewhere. 

Do you think a change in manager will see us likely to be promoted this season?

[Monty13 2,235]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

Exactly. This is a nothing season and there's absolutely no strategic benefit to bringing in new manager now to be tarred by the prevailing negativity.

A squad refresh under a new SD with a clean slate in the summer with a new manager with a clean slate and a full preseason to prepare is what the club needs.

Jesus it’s November, how do you see the rest of this season playing out?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

Just now, Monty13 said:

Jesus it’s November, how do you see the rest of this season playing out?

However it plays out, it will play out with the same squad with the same limitations. I'll put the same question to you: Do you think a change in manager now is likely to result in promotion?

[KeiranShikari 1,420]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Do you think a change in manager will see us likely to be promoted this season?

Nope but I do think giving a manager as much time as possible to get his style/philosophy across ahead of next season would be beneficial.

Edited November 29, 2023 by KeiranShikari

[Monty13 2,235]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

However it plays out, it will play out with the same squad with the same limitations. I'll put the same question to you: Do you think a change in manager now is likely to result in promotion?

No. And it’s not the same question.

If you think Wagner, Knapper and this board can last to the summer without seriously damaging relationships and generating huge levels of toxicity based on current trajectory you’re delusional IMO. It’s 5+ months.

Wagners a dead man walking and arguably has been for weeks. Whatever the long term plan is it’s increasing obvious the short term one can’t be do nothing.

[NFN FC 1,123]

2 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

No. And it’s not the same question.

If you think Wagner, Knapper and this board can last to the summer without seriously damaging relationships and generating huge levels of toxicity based on current trajectory you’re delusional IMO. It’s 5+ months.

Wagners a dead man walking and arguably has been for weeks. Whatever the long term plan is it’s increasing obvious the short term one can’t be do nothing.

Sack him. His tactics are flawed.

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

1 minute ago, NFN FC said:

Sack him. His tactics are flawed.

What are his tactics?honestly, the football is so bad, I generally cannot see a style to our play

[KeiranShikari 1,420]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Wagners a dead man walking and arguably has been for weeks. Whatever the long term plan is it’s increasing obvious the short term one can’t be do nothing.

Pretty sure he'd have gone after Cardiff but for that 2 minute spell. It was such an obvious time to get a new manager in, like the World Cup break last season with Smith.

We don't want to become a club that sacks managers every 6 months but we have to be clinical when it's obvious to 99% of people that it's not working.

[NFN FC 1,123]

Just now, Dr Greenthumb said:

What are his tactics?honestly, the football is so bad, I generally cannot see a style to our play

Wagner tactics are:

Run around a lot for the first 20mins until our aging squad get tired.

Leave big gaps in the middle for the opposition to walk through.

Make loads of subs around 60mins to disrupt, if we have any, momentum.

Make sure any lead we have is quickly thrown away.

[Mason 47 1,382]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

However it plays out, it will play out with the same squad with the same limitations. I'll put the same question to you: Do you think a change in manager now is likely to result in promotion?

I agree that it would be the same squad with the same negatives but equally there are positive assets not being used correctly (or at all) 

Example: Nunez plays and scores regularly for Chile in an attacking position but is often deployed in a deep-lying role in midfield for us; it stunts his attacking potency and emphasises his lack of defensive awareness. 

It reads the same for many of our players at the moment, the way we play makes the most of their negatives and diminishes what they're good at. Personally, I don't consider promotion to be at all possible this season and I agree with your sentiment; however the club is bleeding badly at the moment and the problems are getting worse by the game. I'm never one to call for change for the sake of change but something must be done to stop the damage.

[Ken Hairy 3,773]

20 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Do you think a change in manager will see us likely to be promoted this season?

A new manager would get a free hit for 6 months to implement his ideas and has two transfer windows before have a serious push next season, a new manager lifts the dire atmosphere and the ground, a new manager gives a clean slate to everyone.

What strategic plan is in play keeping a manager who we all know,  and the players know is dead man walking?

Your comments are far too short term, we need to assess the longer term plan.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ken Hairy

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

1 minute ago, Mason 47 said:

I agree that it would be the same squad with the same negatives but equally there are positive assets not being used correctly (or at all) 

Example: Nunez plays and scores regularly for Chile in an attacking position but is often deployed in a deep-lying role in midfield for us; it stunts his attacking potency and emphasises his lack of defensive awareness. 

It reads the same for many of our players at the moment, the way we play makes the most of their negatives and diminishes what they're good at. Personally, I don't consider promotion to be at all possible this season and I agree with your sentiment; however the club is bleeding badly at the moment and the problems are getting worse by the game. I'm never one to call for change for the sake of change but something must be done to stop the damage.

How about Neil Adams as a caretaker for the rest of the season? The most important thing in my view is that we start next Summer with a full clean slate, which means whoever is managing us at the end of this season, unless they perform miracles, which is unlikely, has got to be dismissed  at the end of the year.

[Making Plans 936]

Any where else and a Manager with (a) his recent record at other Clubs, (b) his record at Norwich City and (c) the poor quality of football being served up, would have been out the door 2 months ago.

How long are we give this guy before serious damage is done to our Club?

Every week we wait is one week nearer to dropping through trap door to League One.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

1 minute ago, Making Plans said:

Every week we wait is one week nearer to dropping through trap door to League One.

Like I said, 4 wins in the next 28 is probably all that's needed to avoid that. We've had 2 wins in the last 5!

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

The loyalty to Wagner, who has achieved nothing at the club, makes it even more baffling that Farke, a man who had achieved plenty at the club was shown so little. What has Wagner done to justify the faith that was not shown to others?

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

3 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I agree that it would be the same squad with the same negatives but equally there are positive assets not being used correctly (or at all) 

Example: Nunez plays and scores regularly for Chile in an attacking position but is often deployed in a deep-lying role in midfield for us; it stunts his attacking potency and emphasises his lack of defensive awareness. 

It reads the same for many of our players at the moment, the way we play makes the most of their negatives and diminishes what they're good at. Personally, I don't consider promotion to be at all possible this season and I agree with your sentiment; however the club is bleeding badly at the moment and the problems are getting worse by the game. I'm never one to call for change for the sake of change but something must be done to stop the damage.

It does indeed seem there are several that aren’t working well but being kept with (eg Onel), others who must be wondering why they aren’t getting a go (Sainz) - though to be fair, with 7 players out (per Sky’s list) that pool is not as large as it might be.

I wonder if Knapper has decided to give DW a chance over ‘x’ games, then review; I doubt he was overly impressed last night, no one could be, we were as inept as I can recall us ever being after the first 20.

If we are to make a change it makes sense to do in time for January if they are to be given any chance at all, or we just write the season off.  

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

6 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

A new manager would get a free hit for 6 months to implement his ideas and has two transfer windows before have a serious push next season, a new manager lifts the dire atmosphere and the ground, a new manager gives a clean slate to everyone.

What strategic plan is in play keeping a manager who we all know,  and the players know is dead man walking?

Your comments are far too short term, we need to assess the longer term plan.

No manager gets any free hits except for preseason training and preseason friendlies. Competitive games in charge count towards their record and how they'll be judged at the end of the season.

[KeiranShikari 1,420]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

The loyalty to Wagner, who has achieved nothing at the club, makes it even more baffling that Farke, a man who had achieved plenty at the club was shown so little. What has Wagner done to justify the faith that was not shown to others?

We were in a much stronger place financially when we sacked Farke, I think that probably answers that question.

We desperately need the next one to go well.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

7 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

The loyalty to Wagner, who has achieved nothing at the club, makes it even more baffling that Farke, a man who had achieved plenty at the club was shown so little. What has Wagner done to justify the faith that was not shown to others?

Farke got tremendous loyalty from the club. My biggest regret about Farke is that he wasn't sacked when we were relegated from the Premier League the first time with our worst points tally since 1903. Maybe then Norwich City wouldn't have turned into a cult of Daniel Farke.

Edited November 29, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[sonyc 5,526]

32 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Exactly. This is a nothing season and there's absolutely no strategic benefit to bringing in new manager now to be tarred by the prevailing negativity.

A squad refresh under a new SD with a clean slate in the summer with a new manager with a clean slate and a full preseason to prepare is what the club needs.

I see your your point but leadership and identity takes a while to build and that has to start now for me. A new person assessing what he has, looking at our promising youth players, instilling a new style...and so on. Whether that takes us to upper mid table rather than into or near the promotion top six I'm unsure. But I would like to see someone working their way during a league season as much as waiting for pre season.

I would also like to see what a new manager might do in the January window. Even last night had we have won then we would have been about 3 points from 6th place. I absolutely haven't given up in November nor do I wish to see the season just frittering away with more of the same. 

[KeiranShikari 1,420]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Farke got tremendous loyalty from the club. My biggest regret about Farke is that he wasn't sacked when we were relegated from the Premier League the first time with our worst points tally since 1903. Maybe then Norwich City wouldn't have turned into a cult of Daniel Farke.

This sentiment would make more sense if the club had chosen to actually try and recruit for the Premier League that season and not just pay off debts. 

The only reason fans are so stuck on Farke is because the two following him have been so poor, also.

[NFN FC 1,123]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Farke got tremendous loyalty from the club. My biggest regret about Farke is that he wasn't sacked when we were relegated from the Premier League the first time with our worst points tally since 1903. Maybe then Norwich City wouldn't have turned into a cult of Daniel Farke.

That's because he was a decent manager. Not perfect, but have yet to see anything better since and I don't think we will for a while still.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

5 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

This sentiment would make more sense if the club had chosen to actually try and recruit for the Premier League that season and not just pay off debts. 

The only reason fans are so stuck on Farke is because the two following him have been so poor, also.

We invested virtually nothing when Lambert was promoted and he secured a 12th place finish in the Premier League It wasn't just a bad season, it was our worst points tally in nearly 120 years. It was a tremendous act of loyalty to Daniel Farke not to sack him then and one the club is paying a heavy price for.

Edited November 29, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Walcombe canary 69]

I live half an hour from Bristol. And will be attending Ashton Gate on Sunday with my Son & Daughter. At present, I am not looking forward to going.  So I take my Hat off to all you Canaries making the journey from Norfolk. Hope we get the result you deserve.

I went to the Carabao Cup game earlier in the season, where I thought we dominated, and thoroughly deserved the Victory. And was actually disappointed with the BCFC performance. However, my concern for NCFC was - Everything good went through Sara. I really don't think you require a High Level UEFA Coaching Badge to work out what our game plan is.

Got to hope that Rowe, Barnes & Gunn are fit for Sunday

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

6 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

That's because he was a decent manager. Not perfect, but have yet to see anything better since and I don't think we will for a while still.

He was brilliant at Championship level and totally unsuited to the Premier League.

He's also 7 points behind the auto slots in the Championship now with a squad that was mostly playing in the Premier League last season.

[KeiranShikari 1,420]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

We invested virtually nothing when Lambert was promoted and he secured a 12th place finish in the Premier League It wasn't just a bad season, it was our worst points tally in nearly 120 years. It was a tremendous act of loyalty to Daniel Farke not to sack him then and one the club is paying a heavy price for.

Somewhat but also the Premier League has changed a lot in the last decade. There was loyalty shown and loyalty rewarded with Farke but I don't consider it anything too much. There were a lot of good performances in that Premier League season before Covid hit and we capitulated.