Extraordinary Substitutions

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,437]

We were well on top. We make a triple sub . Swansea make changes. Suddenly they are on top? Bizzare.

I’m sure the A Licence posters can explain why we did it but I’m baffled . 

[In my blood 37]

Same thoughts here. Substitute players ok but we were doing ok so the subs should be like for like not tinker with the formation.

[Big O 225]

3 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

We were well on top. We make a triple sub . Swansea make changes. Suddenly they are on top? Bizzare.

I’m sure the A Licence posters can explain why we did it but I’m baffled . 

I felt Idah for Hwang and one of placheta/hernandez for Springett would have been the right subs. Forshaw was dictating the game at that point and Sara was linking up with Rowe. Just odd 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Big O

[canarydan23 4,060]

Extraordinary would imply that what happened tonight was a rare occurrence. Wagner's substitutions consistently make us worse.

He's just not a very good coach.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Mike Basset would be proud. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,456]

Goreham noted there was a lot of communication between the analysts high up the stands and the coaching team prior to the subs. They obviously thought they'd noticed something. But I suspect they over-thought it. Moving Rowe into the middle just after the RB he'd been tormenting all night had just been booked was particularly bizarre.

[AJ 1,224]

The problem is this squad lacks depth in quality. With Barnes and Serene missing there's not much else left is there

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Just now, canarydan23 said:

Extraordinary would imply that what happened tonight was a rare occurrence. Wagner's substitutions consistently make us worse.

He's just not a very good coach.

I’d say he is a mediocre coach. Seems to of failed more than he’s succeeded in his career.  2 good seasons out of what 10? 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,437]

3 minutes ago, Big O said:

I felt Idah for Hwang and one of placheta/hernandez for Springett would have been the right subs. Forshaw was dictating the game at that point and Sara was linking up with Rowe. Just odd 

To be fair my 80 year old mum for Hwang would have made sense . But the shape change was hopeless . Dropping Sara back was bonkers. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Graham Paddons Beard

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I’d say he is a mediocre coach. Seems to of failed more than he’s succeeded in his career.  2 good seasons out of what 10? 

It's a shame his 18 game winless streak at Schalke and his failure to win the league with Young Boys after they'd been champions for four or five years wasn't common knowledge before he was appointed.

Hang on...

[shaunieboy77 73]

I would expect those kind of changes if we were 2 or 3 down. Not 1-1 and looking fairly comfortable.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

It's a shame his 18 game winless streak at Schalke and his failure to win the league with Young Boys after they'd been champions for four or five years wasn't common knowledge before he was appointed.

Hang on...

He was available on the cheap though which seems to be the story of Norwich under Delia and Webber. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,767]

Just now, By Hook or Ian crook said:

He was available on the cheap though which seems to be the story of Norwich under Delia and Webber. 

And he's Webbers best mate don't forget. Got his best mate as manager and wife on the board.

Life sure is sweet for ol' Webber.

[Capt. Pants 4,270]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Extraordinary would imply that what happened tonight was a rare occurrence. Wagner's substitutions consistently make us worse.

He's just not a very good coach.

Agree. Even the games we've won we have looked worse than before when he made the subs.

Tonight he gave us very little room for manoevre and even if Idah had have scored we would have been wide open in midfield to hold the lead. Had we been losing I could have understood it but not when we were level and well on top.

Very reckless, very poor.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

And he's Webbers best mate don't forget. Got his best mate as manager and wife on the board.

Life sure is sweet for ol' Webber.

He’s certainly made me miss McNally a whole lot. 

[repman 635]

I'd have brought Idah and Placheta on for Hwang and Springett. If you did that you could have kept both Sara and Rowe in the same position instead of swapping them round. 

Also Hernandez was just woeful again, giving him the contract was bad enough but at this there's no way he should be above Rowe, Fassnacht and Placheta in the pecking order and that's without Sainz being in the mix too.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,437]

1 minute ago, repman said:

I'd have brought Idah and Placheta on for Hwang and Springett. If you did that you could have kept both Sara and Rowe in the same position instead of swapping them round. 

Also Hernandez was just woeful again, giving him the contract was bad enough but at this there's no way he should be above Rowe, Fassnacht and Placheta in the pecking order and that's without Sainz being in the mix too.

Agree. Like for like made sense as we were on top. 

[Jim Smith 2,339]

Taking Forshaw off was disastrous. Sara and Kenny as a two leaves us way too open. If Forshaw needed to come off due to fitness then Gibbs should have come on. 
 

if Wagner can’t see this I really worry.

[Ken Hairy 3,779]

Didn't have an issue with the 3 that came on per say, but dropping Sara deep to accommodate them lost us that game.

Hwang coming off was a no brainer,  seen enough to write him off, give that Man City kid a chance 

[Robert N. LiM 4,456]

.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Robert N. LiM
thought better of it

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,437]

Just now, Robert N. LiM said:

I admire DF for lots of things but briefly making Onel look vaguely like a footballer is increasingly looking like the greatest trick he ever pulled.

There was a moment in the second half where Rowe and Hernandez are close together on the left side of the final third.
 

Rowe  on the ball goes both ways , has the defender in knots , buys some space and decides to make a 5 yards pass to Onel . Onel does a sort of step over,  loses the ball , falls over and fouls the Swansea player as he goes down. 
 

Sadly,  there is a reason we sent him out on loan . 

[shaunieboy77 73]

9 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

There was a moment in the second half where Rowe and Hernandez are close together on the left side of the final third.
 

Rowe  on the ball goes both ways , has the defender in knots , buys some space and decides to make a 5 yards pass to Onel . Onel does a sort of step over,  loses the ball , falls over and fouls the Swansea player as he goes down. 
 

Sadly,  there is a reason we sent him out on loan . 

The same reason why Birmingham and Boro didn't want to buy him 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,437]

1 minute ago, shaunieboy77 said:

The same reason why Birmingham and Boro didn't want to buy him 

I didn’t like to mention that. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,767]

14 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

There was a moment in the second half where Rowe and Hernandez are close together on the left side of the final third.
 

Rowe  on the ball goes both ways , has the defender in knots , buys some space and decides to make a 5 yards pass to Onel . Onel does a sort of step over,  loses the ball , falls over and fouls the Swansea player as he goes down. 
 

Sadly,  there is a reason we sent him out on loan . 

When Hernandez is playing at his best he's like a mini Adama Traore

But then when he's playing at his worst he's.. well.. He was not playing at his best tonight that's for sure

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,794]

21 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Taking Forshaw off was disastrous. Sara and Kenny as a two leaves us way too open. If Forshaw needed to come off due to fitness then Gibbs should have come on. 
 

if Wagner can’t see this I really worry.

The sooner Sorenson comes back the better ,to add an extra number to that area of the pitch....never want to see Sara around our own penalty box again

[raunds canary 217]

48 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

To be fair my 80 year old mum for Hwang would have made sense . But the shape change was hopeless . Dropping Sara back was bonkers. 

Is your mum a free agent that is available to travel to Coventry on Saturday?

[hogesar 9,711]

10 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Taking Forshaw off was disastrous. Sara and Kenny as a two leaves us way too open. If Forshaw needed to come off due to fitness then Gibbs should have come on. 
 

if Wagner can’t see this I really worry.

Yes, I suspect Forshaw was a "don't want to risk" more minutes decision but we had control of the game so losing that central player was pretty pivotal. 

11 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Extraordinary would imply that what happened tonight was a rare occurrence. Wagner's substitutions consistently make us worse.

He's just not a very good coach.

I don't think you're hugely wrong but I'm not sure that's always down to Wagner. Last night was in terms of losing Forshaw and not replacing like for like, but generally speaking our bench is quite a bit weaker than our starting 11.

Hopefully, when Barnes, Sargent, Nunez and Sainz are back the bench has a bit of ability to impact a game positively.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

11 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Taking Forshaw off was disastrous. Sara and Kenny as a two leaves us way too open. If Forshaw needed to come off due to fitness then Gibbs should have come on. 

Yep this is a good point, even if Forshaw did HAVE to come off, it is bizarre that Gibbs wasn’t the pick so as to not unsettle the centre of the pitch. We were on top at that moment in the game, the scoreline was narrow and it was only the 57th minute so to chop up so much at once seemed a real strange one…

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Yes, I suspect Forshaw was a "don't want to risk" more minutes decision but we had control of the game so losing that central player was pretty pivotal. 

I don't think you're hugely wrong but I'm not sure that's always down to Wagner. Last night was in terms of losing Forshaw and not replacing like for like, but generally speaking our bench is quite a bit weaker than our starting 11.

Hopefully, when Barnes, Sargent, Nunez and Sainz are back the bench has a bit of ability to impact a game positively.

This is the last hope I'm clinging to, that it's the injuries causing our too-frequent dreadful performances and not that Wagner is just a little bit useless.

[hogesar 9,711]

18 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

This is the last hope I'm clinging to, that it's the injuries causing our too-frequent dreadful performances and not that Wagner is just a little bit useless.

I don't think Wagner is the best manager in the league but I think he's capable of getting us into the play-offs if we can get our key players fit. I think all our performances with a fit squad has demonstrated that, even last season we were minimum play-off form until the injuries hit. His teams do have a habit of throwing that Plymouth-style-result out every now and again, though.

And I think he got it wrong with the subs last night, even if the quality isn't necessarily his own fault.