Youth signings

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

Am I seeing it wrong or have there been far more youth signings U21 ready this Summer than ever before? Not only that, but have some of these come from wider afield and via exotic climes?

Some criticism has been made of Webber's apparent change of tact by filling the squad with older players rather than concentrating upon signing youngsters with "promise"

I quote a recent posting by Shefcanary with reference to a recent statement made by Stuart Webber.:

"He did, but he also said lots of other stuff. Like his aim is always investing in players for the future, not buying players who were in the last throes of their career. Isn't it just a tad ironic he has rescued his reputation a little this summer by going against that particular statement. We all live and learn I suppose ..."

Not getting at you Sheff as there is some validity in that statement except that it fails to take into account the wider picture which can be revealed by the following list of these youngsters signed and straight into the U21s:

Reyes*

Craven

Wilson

Forsyth

Adegboyega*

Montoia

Ogwaru

The ones starred are the two I suspect may break into the first team squad this season. There may well be others.

There is also Pedro Lima on loan from Palmeiras. I cannot recall if there is an option to buy, but nevertheless this boy could also be considered in this respect.  

Zoe Webber recently stated that her husband has always had a passion for promoting youth prospects. He seems to be going out with a bang in this respect, and we have to hope that it is not only with the academy but also the future prospects for the playing staff that points to a more rosy future for the club's prospects, irrespective of outside investment

Edited September 14, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Greavsy 2,421]

3 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Chloe Webber recently stated that her husband has always had a passion for promoting youth prospects

Who is she? Is there another in the family on the payroll?

[Capt. Pants 4,274]

I think we're cutting our cloth accordingly, so that means low cost young players and older free/low cost experienced ones.

Hopefully the young players come good and we make a tidy profit. Likewise we're not committed to the older guys long term.

I suppose the key thing is that players further in their development are actually good enough, or don't get injured. The challenge for us going forward is signing players in their 'prime', especially if we were to be promoted.

[jaberry2 554]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

Am I seeing it wrong or have there been far more youth signings U21 ready this Summer than ever before? Not only that, but have some of these come from wider afield and via exotic climes?

Some criticism has been made of Webber's apparent change of tact by filling the squad with older players rather than concentrating upon signing youngsters with "promise"

I quote a recent posting by Shefcanary with reference to a recent statement made by Stuart Webber.:

"He did, but he also said lots of other stuff. Like his aim is always investing in players for the future, not buying players who were in the last throes of their career. Isn't it just a tad ironic he has rescued his reputation a little this summer by going against that particular statement. We all live and learn I suppose ..."

Not getting at you Sheff as there is some validity in that statement except that it fails to take into account the wider picture which can be revealed by the following list of these youngsters signed and straight into the U21s:

Reyes*

Craven

Wilson

Forsyth

Adegboyega*

Montoia

Ogwaru

The ones starred are the two I suspect may break into the first team squad this season. There may well be others.

There is also Pedro Lima on loan from Palmeiras. I cannot recall if there is an option to buy, but nevertheless this boy could also be considered in this respect.  

Zoe Webber recently stated that her husband has always had a passion for promoting youth prospects. He seems to be going out with a bang in this respect, and we have to hope that it is not only with the academy but also the future prospects for the playing staff that points to a more rosy future for the club's prospects, irrespective of outside investment

Exotic climes meaning Ireland for Adegboyega haha. But yes some players from further afield.

Edited September 14, 2023 by jaberry2

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

 

8 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Exotic climes meaning Ireland for Adegboyega haha. But yes some players from further afield.

Don't insult either Ireland or my Irish relatives (each one very "exotic." Or should that be "erratic?")) please good sir.

Actually, Vincente Reyes is US born (Charleston) so that's not particularly exotic either. 

But, I think you know what I mean.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[shefcanary 2,444]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

Am I seeing it wrong or have there been far more youth signings U21 ready this Summer than ever before? Not only that, but have some of these come from wider afield and via exotic climes?

Some criticism has been made of Webber's apparent change of tact by filling the squad with older players rather than concentrating upon signing youngsters with "promise"

I quote a recent posting by Shefcanary with reference to a recent statement made by Stuart Webber.:

"He did, but he also said lots of other stuff. Like his aim is always investing in players for the future, not buying players who were in the last throes of their career. Isn't it just a tad ironic he has rescued his reputation a little this summer by going against that particular statement. We all live and learn I suppose ..."

Not getting at you Sheff as there is some validity in that statement except that it fails to take into account the wider picture which can be revealed by the following list of these youngsters signed and straight into the U21s:

Reyes*

Craven

Wilson

Forsyth

Adegboyega*

Montoia

Ogwaru

The ones starred are the two I suspect may break into the first team squad this season. There may well be others.

There is also Pedro Lima on loan from Palmeiras. I cannot recall if there is an option to buy, but nevertheless this boy could also be considered in this respect.  

Zoe Webber recently stated that her husband has always had a passion for promoting youth prospects. He seems to be going out with a bang in this respect, and we have to hope that it is not only with the academy but also the future prospects for the playing staff that points to a more rosy future for the club's prospects, irrespective of outside investment

Hey Broady, no "getting" noted 🙂 ! My comment was really that in the past the 3 or 4 oldies would never have got a look in under Webber's opening salvo in the transfer market. He has definitely changed his transfer targets this close season - looking for a short term fix. Sure, there were some 26-28 year olds (Steipi, Vrancic, Leitner) in those first few years, but no 30 plus players.

There is indeed a sense of balance for the long term however, and the number of youngsters bought this close season is remarkable. The reach of the academy to attract such players is perhaps even more remarkable.

A couple of posers though:

• Does it say something about the inability within the academy to produce youngsters considered good enough to provide long term quality for the first team - that is, there is a dearth of talent coming through in the UK or are the big boys draining the pool before we get there? 
• Or is it a sign of the success of our Academy that we are able to bring in such potential at such a young age - the academy has a world class reputation now?

[jaberry2 554]

23 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

 

Don't insult either Ireland or my Irish relatives (each one very "exotic." Or should that be "erratic?")) please good sir.

Actually, Vincente Reyes is US born (Charleston) so that's not particularly exotic either. 

But, I think you know what I mean.

 

Half of my family including my wife are Irish. They are far from exotic.

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

21 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Hey Broady, no "getting" noted 🙂 ! My comment was really that in the past the 3 or 4 oldies would never have got a look in under Webber's opening salvo in the transfer market. He has definitely changed his transfer targets this close season - looking for a short term fix. Sure, there were some 26-28 year olds (Steipi, Vrancic, Leitner) in those first few years, but no 30 plus players.

There is indeed a sense of balance for the long term however, and the number of youngsters bought this close season is remarkable. The reach of the academy to attract such players is perhaps even more remarkable.

A couple of posers though:

• Does it say something about the inability within the academy to produce youngsters considered good enough to provide long term quality for the first team - that is, there is a dearth of talent coming through in the UK or are the big boys draining the pool before we get there? 
• Or is it a sign of the success of our Academy that we are able to bring in such potential at such a young age - the academy has a world class reputation now?

(1) Difficult to answer as, from the top of my head, only Todd Cantwell in recent years has been successfully brought through from the very young signed. There will of course be others (Murphys?), but from Maddison, through Aarons/Lewis and even Omo, youngsters have been acquired having been brought through in the nurseries of other clubs.

(2) Does seem like it's getting that way, but perhaps we need to go further afield with our scouting in order to evade the broad brush of the Chelseas and Man. Uniteds  of this world.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

2 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Half of my family including my wife are Irish. They are far from exotic.

Perhaps I should have used an emoji with a wink.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Add Kellen Fisher to that list too.

I don't think it's an unusual amount but up on last season. It's just only few make it so the rest get forgotten about. The season we signed Omabamadele there was also Barden, Soto, Mumba and Josh Martin. I can also remember Melvin Sitti, McCallum was 20 when we signed him, Rocky Bushuri, Simon Power, the lad from Peterborough who's now out on loan but the name escapes me. Daniel Adshead was another.

[jaberry2 554]

Seems a better general stamp of young players too, with the likes of Lima / Ogwaru / Reyes / Adegboyega should all be pushing for first team starts later this season

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

7 minutes ago, Grant Holts Moustache said:

Add Kellen Fisher to that list too.

I don't think it's an unusual amount but up on last season. It's just only few make it so the rest get forgotten about. The season we signed Omabamadele there was also Barden, Soto, Mumba and Josh Martin. I can also remember Melvin Sitti, McCallum was 20 when we signed him, Rocky Bushuri, Simon Power, the lad from Peterborough who's now out on loan but the name escapes me. Daniel Adshead was another.

Gibbs?

Which reminds me of recently when TWTD to a man got very hot under the collar when the presence of Norwich City's growing influence in their local schools was first disclosed.

Perhaps the East Anglian pool has its limitations though. The area is not exactly a 'hotspot' in this respect. Thank goodness for Category 1, say I.

[Nuff Said 5,161]

2 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Who is she? Is there another in the family on the payroll?

 For god’s sake, don’t tell Essex! He’ll be posting more than Cambridge.

[Greavsy 2,421]

4 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

 For god’s sake, don’t tell Essex! He’ll be posting more than Cambridge.

He needs little encouragement.  

[Captain Holt 522]

I've managed to get myself very 'Youtube' excited about Pedro Lima.

[Indy 3,314]

2 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Am I seeing it wrong or have there been far more youth signings U21 ready this Summer than ever before? Not only that, but have some of these come from wider afield and via exotic climes?

Some criticism has been made of Webber's apparent change of tact by filling the squad with older players rather than concentrating upon signing youngsters with "promise"

I quote a recent posting by Shefcanary with reference to a recent statement made by Stuart Webber.:

"He did, but he also said lots of other stuff. Like his aim is always investing in players for the future, not buying players who were in the last throes of their career. Isn't it just a tad ironic he has rescued his reputation a little this summer by going against that particular statement. We all live and learn I suppose ..."

Not getting at you Sheff as there is some validity in that statement except that it fails to take into account the wider picture which can be revealed by the following list of these youngsters signed and straight into the U21s:

Reyes*

Craven

Wilson

Forsyth

Adegboyega*

Montoia

Ogwaru

The ones starred are the two I suspect may break into the first team squad this season. There may well be others.

There is also Pedro Lima on loan from Palmeiras. I cannot recall if there is an option to buy, but nevertheless this boy could also be considered in this respect.  

Zoe Webber recently stated that her husband has always had a passion for promoting youth prospects. He seems to be going out with a bang in this respect, and we have to hope that it is not only with the academy but also the future prospects for the playing staff that points to a more rosy future for the club's prospects, irrespective of outside investment

Hi Broady said this myself on another thread stating the positives of this summer, the youth recruitment into the under 23 is something really positive, we look like there’s more potential quality there than we’ve had a for a few years!

[jaberry2 554]

1 minute ago, Captain Holt said:

I've managed to get myself very 'Youtube' excited about Pedro Lima.

Wait until you see the video on youtube of him doing the fozzy flick *salivating here.

[Nuff Said 5,161]

Just now, jaberry2 said:

Wait until you see the video on youtube of him doing the fozzy flick *salivating here.

Be very careful about spelling if you search the internet for “fozzy flick”!

[jaberry2 554]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Be very careful about spelling if you search the internet for “fozzy flick”!

Fuzzy ****? Some interesting results on a google search..

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

40 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Gibbs?

Which reminds me of recently when TWTD to a man got very hot under the collar when the presence of Norwich City's growing influence in their local schools was first disclosed.

Perhaps the East Anglian pool has its limitations though. The area is not exactly a 'hotspot' in this respect. Thank goodness for Category 1, say I.

How could I forget about Gibbs! But yes, Norfolk isn't known for producing many footballers. The Murphys were from London originally and I think that's the case with Rowe too.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

i would love to see Ogwaru on the bench sometime this season might be a goal scoring Gem in the champs 

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

43 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Be very careful about spelling if you search the internet for “fozzy flick”!

I think that might be why @jaberry2 was salivating. 😉

[Icecream Snow 762]

Interestingly, the GBE rules were changed this summer, which appears to be how we acquired Reyes, Adegboyega, Montoia and brought Lima in on loan. Interesting we used our four slots on youth players.

https://www.thefa.com/news/2023/jun/14/new-gbe-criteria-140623#:~:text=Home Office approves new GBE Criteria&text=A maximum of four players,of English players they play.

The additional access will allow clubs playing in the English league the ability to sign a number of players who do not meet the current points requirements. A maximum of four players will be available to Premier League and Championship teams, and two for League One and League Two teams. The number of players a club will be able to sign will be proportional to the number of English players they play. While each club will get at least two places for players in the first season, they will receive between zero and four depending on the number of English players playing in future seasons.

The Premier League and EFL have also committed to work with The FA on improving the pathway for talented English youngsters. This solution supports both England player development and clubs’ access to overseas talent. The outcomes of both the changes to the GBE system and improvements to the development pathway will be kept under review, which could mean increasing the number of places allowed per club should both be working successfully.  

[NewNestCarrow 202]

2 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

(1) Difficult to answer as, from the top of my head, only Todd Cantwell in recent years has been successfully brought through from the very young signed. There will of course be others (Murphys?), but from Maddison, through Aarons/Lewis and even Omo, youngsters have been acquired having been brought through in the nurseries of other clubs.

(2) Does seem like it's getting that way, but perhaps we need to go further afield with our scouting in order to evade the broad brush of the Chelseas and Man. Uniteds  of this world.

 

Kamara, Rowe, Springett & Warner have all been with NCFC for nine years or more.  Which I think reflects well on the club's long-term scouting & development.

It must be remembered that the pool of local talent in E Anglia is small [Beds, Cambs, Essex, Herts, Hunt, Nfk & Sfk combined have less than half the population of Greater London (6.8m v 14.8m)].

And the Norfolk pool is absolutely tiny. Of the 1263 footballers to have represented England just SEVEN were born in Nelson's County

 

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

12 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

And the Norfolk pool is absolutely tiny. Of the 1263 footballers to have represented England just SEVEN were born in Nelson's County

 

Sounds like a good quiz question. Only know of Danny Mills. 

[NewNestCarrow 202]

5 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Am I seeing it wrong or have there been far more youth signings U21 ready this Summer than ever before? Not only that, but have some of these come from wider afield and via exotic climes?

I am guessing it ebbs & flows, depending on talent already at the club.

2019/20 saw the following Academy recruitment:

Adshead (Rochdale, £300k; 0 first-team apps)

Bushiri (Belgium, £?, 0)

Fitzpatrick (Sco, £350k, 0)

Mair (Sco, £?, unused sub )

Nizet (Belgium, £nom, 0 )

McAlear (Sco £250k, 1 sub)

Omotoye (London, 4 subs)

Tomkinson (USA, £?, 3)

[Indy 3,314]

43 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

I am guessing it ebbs & flows, depending on talent already at the club.

2019/20 saw the following Academy recruitment:

Adshead (Rochdale, £300k; 0 first-team apps)

Bushiri (Belgium, £?, 0)

Fitzpatrick (Sco, £350k, 0)

Mair (Sco, £?, unused sub )

Nizet (Belgium, £nom, 0 )

McAlear (Sco £250k, 1 sub)

Omotoye (London, 4 subs)

Tomkinson (USA, £?, 3)

Bushiri , now that was some prospect who really failed to fulfil his potential! Where is he now! I’ll hold my hands up to having seen him early on in an u 23 game I believe and thought wow he’s looks a goodun!

Edited September 14, 2023 by Indy

[Bovril 219]

I think it was widely known that before this summer's recruitment, Webber and co. weren't expecting many of the current crop of youngsters to make it and hence the injection of players at that level. 

[repman 635]

It's definitely true that there was a stark contrast in our first team recruitment this summer compared to previous years. The main reason for the divide this summer between the first team and youth recruitment is essentially tied to Webber leaving the club, I don't say that in a negative sense but that is why things have happened as they have.

Wagner, like pretty much every manager, would rather have experienced players at hand as opposed to young unproven options. With Webber leaving soon he hasn't pushed back on older signings like he had done in previous years (especially ones that came via a recommendation of the first team manager). Last summer Dean Smith floated Hourihane as a midfield option only for that to be shut down pretty quickly and told that Sara was the main choice. Whether sanctioning these moves now is Webber doing Wagner a favour (for handing in his notice 2 months after appointing him) or maybe him looking to leave on a high still and looking more short term than before I'm not sure, it's possibly them factors and more.

That brings us onto the youth recruitment side. Webber, in sanctioning these (more) short term moves for first teamers, realised that the shape of the squad doesn't look great 2-3 years down the line. Obviously he could have simply waved away these concerns as he would no longer be here but I think he has always been genuine when he says he wants to leave the club in a good place. As a result the recruitment team were essentially let loose this summer to bring in a number of options who will hopefully be making their way into the side within the next 2 seasons. 

 

[Mr.Carrow 378]

6 hours ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Kamara, Rowe, Springett & Warner have all been with NCFC for nine years or more.  Which I think reflects well on the club's long-term scouting & development.

It must be remembered that the pool of local talent in E Anglia is small [Beds, Cambs, Essex, Herts, Hunt, Nfk & Sfk combined have less than half the population of Greater London (6.8m v 14.8m)].

And the Norfolk pool is absolutely tiny. Of the 1263 footballers to have represented England just SEVEN were born in Nelson's County

 

But the other side of that coin is that our area has far fewer clubs- particularly higher level ones.