Tzolis

[hogesar 9,721]

10 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

You're right, there was one game he didn't start.

It was their worst result of the season.

First name on the teamsheet hasn't even played every game this season then.  

[Midlands Yellow 4,041]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

First name on the teamsheet hasn't even played every game this season then.  

One of the first is what and I stated and the facts this season and last back that up. Any comment on the 3 awards he won 22/23? 

[hogesar 9,721]

Just now, Midlands Yellow said:

One of the first is what and I stated and the facts this season and last back that up. Any comment on the 3 awards he won 22/23? 

Yeah he was great in League One.

He wanted to play regularly and he would be trying for a space on the left or right in our system. Both our current options have outscored and out assisted his 1 goal and 0 assists this season.

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,898]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

No. He hasn't started every match this season at all. Jesus christ 😅

That's true - he's missed one league game (although came on as a sub) where the manager made 7 changes. They lost 4-1. 

However, he hasn't missed their last two games, which is btw what I'm pretty sure you indicated in the Plymouth match-day thread. I noticed it at the time and didn't feel it was worth bringing up, but if we are being sticklers for accuracy, hey ho! 😉 Statistics are important after all... 😁

I think it's a shame the lad left without being given the chance to show what he could do for us.

He's a young boy and personally I hope he does well.

OTBC

[BigFish 1,988]

7 goals and an assist in 10 now.

[Google Bot 3,298]

I so wish we had him as an option right now, not because he's scoring - that's great for him personally, I just never wanted him to be loaned out from day one.  

Feel that has more IQ and ability than many of our squad, and something we could do with in this period.  Sadly, missed out as he doesn't tick the unproportionally large 'works hard' box. 

Instead we have players like Onel, PP, Idah & Springett playing.  But I think his loan was more financial than any kind of tactical plan, gutting really. 

And we all know this **** will go full circle and we'll start looking at bringing in players of better technical ability as the main priority.  Hopefully he doesn't sell at cut price and we're looking across asking how we let him slip away so easily.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Google Bot

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

Feel that has more IQ and ability than many of our squad, and something we could do with in this period. 

Based on what? We've seen nearly nothing from him. And it's not like he's not had chances. 

There's always a player we let go we all think would be our Lord and Saviour when things go wrong. I think in this case I am on very safe ground to say nothing would be different if Tzolis were still here. 

[Google Bot 3,298]

Just now, Terminally Yellow said:

Based on what? We've seen nearly nothing from him. And it's not like he's not had chances. 

I think he's a great player, and very sad that we put him out on loan.  If you don't agree, then fine, we clearly appreciate different aspects.

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

21 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I think he's a great player

Based on what?

He's been absolutely shocking for us. Onel has been a more productive player than him. Comfortably. 

[hogesar 9,721]

I'd have him over Springett but not convinced that works for us financially or suits Tzolis own aspirations.

[Google Bot 3,298]

12 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Based on what?

Based on me watching him, what else? FIFA highlights?

Like I said, if you don't fancy him fair enough.  I would rather him in this squad than the same 3-4 average players that we have, mainly as he's something different and potentially has a higher ceiling.

But I maintain that it's primarily financial why he's outside of these walls.

[Mello Yello 2,302]

I'd have Tzolis back here in a flash....

[BigFish 1,988]

On 30/10/2023 at 18:40, Mello Yello said:

I'd have Tzolis back here in a flash....

A very good prospect in a certain team structure. Wouldn't fit Wagner's tactics, although probably would Farke's, but seeing as the tactics clearly arn't working it is probably time for a change. One that would suit him too.

[hogesar 9,721]

Pretty well known I haven't rated him at all at Norwich but hard to argue with his goal tally on loan this season. 

Watching the goals he's scored, there's quite a few replicating his goal vs Birmingham (I think) for us. The rest seem to be penalty-box instinct which isn't a bad thing. 

It's really hard to judge the standard though. He cut's in with little pace but is given a lot of space to get a shot on goal, I'm not convinced he'd get that even in the Championship. Certainly not with the regularity the highlights show.

He looks really settled and happy there though - his post-match interviews are the most positive i've seen him. Maybe it's just not going to work out in England for him.

[canarybubbles 1,937]

8 from 11 games now, and 2 assists, and in four of those games he only played 23, 24, 34 and 45 minutes, so that makes it even more impressive. Yes, the standard may be below Championship level, although too many on here are simply assuming it is way below when they probably haven't even watched a Bundesliga 2 match.

I agree, though, that he wouldn't be making any big waves here because he isn't suited to Wagner's run-run-run tactics. He wouldn't have played any games, so it's much better for him that he's out of here. Not much better for us, though, when we kick out the old fart/headless chicken strategy and go back to using players who have technical ability.

I have read that Dusseldorf have the right to buy. I wonder for how much? If he keeps this up, even if they don't get promoted they can buy him from us at a knock-down price and sell him on at a profit. Could this be another Webber masterstroke? We're so lucky to still have him here, aren't we?

[Yellow Wal 314]

The more he doesn't play for us, the better he will be perceived to be.

[canarybubbles 1,937]

6 hours ago, Yellow Wal said:

The more he doesn't play for us, the better he will be perceived to be.

This is probably true, but it doesn't mean he's not delivering the goods at Fortuna so far.

[Capt. Pants 4,274]

Seems like he's very keen to leave, especially if Fortuna promoted ...

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/23941775.norwich-city-christos-tzolis-interview-carrow-road-spell/

[canarybubbles 1,937]

Another goal and assist in their 5-3 win yesterday against Schalke. I think that's 9 and 3 in 14 games? And he also scored in both of Greece's under-21 games during the international break. OK, weak opposition, but still suggests we didn't get anywhere near what we could have out of him. And he clearly doesn't want to come back here judging by the interview he gave which Capt Pants links above. Ranked below Springett - can you blame him?

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

We have to give up on this boy, I suppose, and I'm one of those who persevered with him until the very end.

Pity as we could have lost out on a special player. However, he failed under three managers, never particularly impressed in the way we were led to believe, and seems not to have enjoyed his time at Norwich.

We might recoup £3-4m if we're lucky.

[RugbyCanary 94]

New manager may want a look at him.......will Wagner be here long? Should he still go? Lots of questions 

[canarybubbles 1,937]

3 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

We have to give up on this boy, I suppose, and I'm one of those who persevered with him until the very end.

Pity as we could have lost out on a special player. However, he failed under three managers, never particularly impressed in the way we were led to believe, and seems not to have enjoyed his time at Norwich.

We might recoup £3-4m if we're lucky.

I wouldn't say he failed under Farke. Farke was sacked after 10 league games. Tzolis had made a fantastic debut in the League Cup, the penalty incident happened, Farke punished him, but I am sure he would have brought Tzolis back into the fold because for me he is Farke's type of player (technically gifted). As for Smith, although it sounds as if he gave Tzolis lots of opportunities, playing in 10 or 11 games, his minutes on the pitch came to just over 200, so that's the equivalent of just over two games in total, before Smith announced that he wouldn't even play him in the Championship. My own feeling - pure speculation, I admit - is that Smith didn't want to develop him because he wanted to bring in Ramsey. Tzolis did fail under Wagner, I would say, because to his credit Wagner brought him back and forced him to get fit so that he was no longer like the Michelin Man, but then Wagner decided that Tzolis wasn't the kind of player he could use in the style of football he wanted. Since Wagner's style of football sets more store on being able to run around a lot rather than do anything with a football at your feet, and a player like Mumba was also seen as surplus to requirements, I'm not sure Tzolis can be totally blamed for the failure, though.

He's gone. He doesn't want to come back and Dusseldorf can probably make some quick cash on him even if they can't afford to buy him long-term. We don't know what figure has been set on Dusseldorf's right to buy him after the loan, but I suspect it won't be far from the figure you mention. Webber knew he would be gone by the time the loan spell came to an end so I doubt if he cared about getting flak if Tzolis did well there and then got sold for a song.

 

[Google Bot 3,298]

Personally, I'm hoping that Knapper will question why we've got a a bulk of average players at this club and yet closed the door on someone of Tzolis's ability.   No-one is knocking on the door to sign PP, Onel, Springett for millions yet they're the players we chose to go into a promotion campaign with.

[Jim Smith 2,339]

I think the handling of Tzolis by our club has been poor from the off and reflects badly on Farke, Webber, Smith and Wagner. Notably, I thought he looked sharp and a yard faster in this preseason so I was bemused that he wasn’t given a chance this season, particularly given our financial constraints. To simply ignore a potentially talented player already on the books was strange.

I feel we will regret how we have handled him and dread to think what pathetic purchase fee Webber agreed when he let him go on loan. I do not get why we agree these “option to buy” fees which just remove any bargaining position if they player has a successful loan. 

 

[Ulfotto 641]

Well I think we are looking at a positive side of him staying at Carrow road this season.
 

What if he stayed was bang average like the end of last season. We Paid millions more on instalments based on appearances and his wages. Only to see his value diminish and diminish. Whereas now he is no longer costing us anymore and we could get our initial investment on him back.

[Google Bot 3,298]

50 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

What if he stayed was bang average like the end of last season.

If we can't develop him then the coaching team needs dragging out by their necks.  It's not a solution to throw out a player for someone else to develop, he's at least a 5-8m player that we bought in, with a potential of being  25-30m.

Onel, PP, Springett will never be near that kind of valuation, they have no natural control or finesse to their game whatsoever.  I'd be amazed if any top coach (Pep etc) would have made that same decision to keep those 3 over Tzolis.

It's purely financial, and even that's a cop out as we'll make a loss on him and be left with players who leave on frees as no-one is willing to pay for them.  Horrendously managed player for a club that prides itself on bringing in hopefuls and developing them.

We're stupidly heavy in wide areas, but most are bang average.  (imo) We'd have been much better leaning out by getting rid of the 'also rans' and keeping only quality and those with highest potential for improvement.  That's what successful teams do.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Google Bot

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

What is it with this hankering after players that somehow didn't fit or couldn't be asked?

Players move on - best for them and us to find somewhere it all clicks.

After all - we got Pukki on a free! Many other examples of 'finds' that worked (Holt, Wes and even Emi)

Good luck to Tzolis, Rashica and Cantwell elsewhere  but frankly I don't care!

 

[Google Bot 3,298]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

What is it with this hankering after players that somehow didn't fit or couldn't be asked?

I guess it comes from having a large interest in the sport as a whole, perhaps?  Personally I like to see what Tzolis is doing while on loan and interested in seeing how players like Cantwell and Pukki are doing elsewhere too.

Perhaps you're just tired with the sport if nothing outside of who plays for this club currently doesn't interest you?

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

2 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I guess it comes from having a large interest in the sport as a whole, perhaps?  Personally I like to see what Tzolis is doing while on loan and interested in seeing how players like Cantwell and Pukki are doing elsewhere too.

Perhaps you're just tired with the sport if nothing outside of who plays for this club currently doesn't interest you?

No - I look forward not backwards. Apart from getting a decent deal on selling on if applicable its all water under the bridge and ancient history. I won't wallow in the past. What's team for Watford? Will we progress ?

[Ulfotto 641]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

If we can't develop him then the coaching team needs dragging out by their necks.  It's not a solution to throw out a player for someone else to develop, he's at least a 5-8m player that we bought in, with a potential of being  25-30m.

Onel, PP, Springett will never be near that kind of valuation, they have no natural control or finesse to their game whatsoever.  I'd be amazed if any top coach (Pep etc) would have made that same decision to keep those 3 over Tzolis.

It's purely financial, and even that's a cop out as we'll make a loss on him and be left with players who leave on frees as no-one is willing to pay for them.  Horrendously managed player for a club that prides itself on bringing in hopefuls and developing them.

We're stupidly heavy in wide areas, but most are bang average.  (imo) We'd have been much better leaning out by getting rid of the 'also rans' and keeping only quality and those with highest potential for improvement.  That's what successful teams do.

It’s obviously a financial decision it always is with Norwich. You are suggesting there is a 30 million pound player there that is a big call. I would agree he has potential but if you said to me we could get 5 million back for him and a future sell on that that is miles better than paying the full value of the transfer fee circa 10 million plus the full value of his contract at 20000 a week for 5 years.

Your choice potentially 5. Million in the bank or Tzolis as a substitute and us 15 million out of pocket. I appreciate there are ifs and buts with both approaches but I would choose the former rather than the later.

Does it reflect well on Norwich no it doesn’t but literally nothing that happened in 21/22 really does.