Mumba

[canarybubbles 1,950]

2 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

He's said we don't need to sell.  I don't think he's ever said we don't need to sell if we want to buy, however? 

But yes agree whole heartedly on selling a youngster for this kind of money when it's clear he's going to be worth far more in the future.  Which just makes me think that there's s deal the club are wanting to get over the line but operating at a tighter budget that expected.

Personally hopeful that this means that Max is the only significant outgoing, Rashica stays and we bring in someone else to steady up in the centre. 

I don't understand pinning hopes on Rashica. He doesn't want to be here, and even when he was he often had the ball in loads of space without any idea what to do with it, and that was with a firing Pukki making runs ahead of him. He's a fairly talented mercenary but nothing special.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Why are so many convinced he is going to be a top player? How many have seen him play?

[Google Bot 3,334]

Just now, canarybubbles said:

I don't understand pinning hopes on Rashica.

He's capable of tearing up the Championship, I pity anyone who can't see it.

Like you say, the chances of him wanting to be here, and moreso us wanting to pay him whatever salary he's on are something else entirely.

However, I really hope that he stays and becomes part of this squad as the thought of him on one side and Sainz on the other, with Barnes and Sage up top - there is the potential to make us a really formidable force this season.

[Channon’s Windmill 336]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The players do get paid you know.

Yep we have Gibsons wage to pay. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

10 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

He's said we don't need to sell.  I don't think he's ever said we don't need to sell if we want to buy, however? 

Quote

But any further outgoings will be tightly controlled by the Canaries' head coach and sporting director Stuart Webber.

“Sell to invest, and this is exactly what we will do, and what we like to do. If you like to get new energy, new faces into a group,” he said. “This is something I think is quite common for us as a football club. Obviously you have to make space, and if you can make space and earn money, well done, and this is obviously one of our aims as well.

“But there's a huge difference if you have to sell, or if you like to sell to re-invest. This is a huge difference I would say. We are open to sell if the right offer comes for the right player, because we like to invest.

"This is exactly our idea but we don't have to sell. This means the players you receive offers for are good players, and this is why they are of interest in the market. And if they don't leave then you have good players.

"So at the end of the day, for me, it's more or less a win win situation, even if I think I made it clear I'm a strong believer this group needs new faces.”

https://www.pinkun.com/news/23518049.norwich-city-david-wagner-canaries-transfer-strategy/

[Branston Pickle 3,706]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

I have to problems with this sort of thinking.

1- it's extremely short termist to sell an exciting young prospect because he has excelled in a position that our current manager, who has a one year rolling contract, is coming in on the back of 1 win in 11 to finish the season and was hired by a sporting director who is on his way out. 

2- Mumba, in his young career has shown remarkable adaptability. He was a central midfielder when he joined, was converted to right back by Farke and last season excelled at left wing back. There is nothing to suggest he couldn't have worked to adapt his game to a position we do use.

Personally I think we'll regret this one quite a lot. I think he'll do well at Plymouth and they'll get a good fee for him, while the manager who apparently can't use him will be gone by Christmas.

Sorry, but on 1. we have never really played that formation, but he’s well down the list of current players anyway.

As I say, we have to judge the transfer window as a whole, not after each individual move.  I already said I’d have maybe agreed a loan, but it is what it is. 

[Segura 84]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Why are so many convinced he is going to be a top player? How many have seen him play?

I'm not sure either, my two penneth worth...

Consecutive ncfc managers have deemed him not good enough to play at Prem / Champs level.

He played in the Championship for Peterborough on loan two seasons ago and made little impact.

No rival clubs (by that I mean a club challenging for promotion) have come in for him - were this different I could perhaps understand some of the criticism more.

 

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

2 minutes ago, Segura said:

I'm not sure either, my two penneth worth...

Consecutive ncfc managers have deemed him not good enough to play at Prem / Champs level.

He played in the Championship for Peterborough on loan two seasons ago and made little impact.

No rival clubs (by that I mean a club challenging for promotion) have come in for him - were this different I could perhaps understand some of the criticism more.

But the idea is not to develop only players for the first team. It's to develop players for sale too. Bali Mumba is a player we could have kept and developed. 

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

But the idea is not to develop only players for the first team. It's to develop players for sale too. Bali Mumba is a player we could have kept and developed. 

Regarding the bit in bold, didn't we basically make a 300% profit on the sale - at least?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, Channon’s Windmill said:

Yep we have Gibsons wage to pay. 

That is why we have to sell because so many fans demand we make the UCL but on minimum wage. I agree that Gibson on £41K a week (reportedly) doesn't seem worth that amount.

Like it or not, football, at our level, is costing waht the EPL did not so long ago. And we don't always get value for money. Ask Chelsea fans about all the wasters in their squad. WBA have to let Karlan Grant go out on loan because their parachute money is finished and have to sell their decent CB.

Its a real pain that the current crop of those coming through the ranks don't look up to it. That happens to all clubs. So we are in the process of having to buy oven ready. And that is a real 50/50 situation.

 

[Jason Shackell’s Limp Tack 76]

10 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

He's capable of tearing up the Championship, I pity anyone who can't see it.

Like you say, the chances of him wanting to be here, and moreso us wanting to pay him whatever salary he's on are something else entirely.

However, I really hope that he stays and becomes part of this squad as the thought of him on one side and Sainz on the other, with Barnes and Sage up top - there is the potential to make us a really formidable force this season.

On what evidence? He was dreadful for us last season before his loan. Against Bournemouth in the cup he was laughably bad. Maybe he's a player that will excel in a slower, more technical league but he's not up for a battle 2 a week. I all honesty, one of the most underwhelming signings in recent history. 

[Jason Shackell’s Limp Tack 76]

Just now, Jason Shackell’s Limp Tack said:

On what evidence? He was dreadful for us last season before his loan. Against Bournemouth in the cup he was laughably bad. Maybe he's a player that will excel in a slower, more technical league but he's not up for a battle 2 a week. I all honesty, one of the most underwhelming signings in recent history. 

I addition, before you cite his period in the bundesliga, that was really only one half decent season. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Regarding the bit in bold, didn't we basically make a 300% profit on the sale - at least?

No idea. The fee hasn't been disclosed from what I can see. Plymouth suggest it's a record equalling which would be £1m. We don't know how much of that has gone to Sunderland, if anything. We also don't know how much he would have been worth if, either for us or on loan, he repeated his performance from last year.

[Google Bot 3,334]

9 minutes ago, Jason Shackell’s Limp Tack said:

On what evidence?

Watching him play, he's explosive and very direct, but wasn't invested in Smith's team I think that was clear for all to see.  Longterm players with undoubted loyalty (Max and Pukki) wanted out at the time too, and were off the boil and frustrated figures in the opening matches, too.

If Wagner switches him on and has him up for championship he'll be a massive force for us... As I said before, the potential of him and Sainz either side and two big men in the middle completely transforms us.

If you can't see it, then all I can hope is that it happens so he can demonstrate to the fans who doubt him.

Otherwise, we're putting hope into players like Onel, Rowe or PP able to step up to the mark.  Can't believe it needs pointing out how much better and higher level experience he has than those.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Google Bot

[norfolkngood 1,092]

here are my thoughts ,

He is 21 i think he had a chance to progress and had potential  ,

he was the best youngster in the division below last season ,

signing best division youngsters should be what we do not selling,

i think for a million he was worth keeping ,

Edited July 21, 2023 by norfolkngood

[S_81 890]

A million for a league player of the year, at such a young age, is bad business. 
Many of us would have involved him down that left side next season. He had the perfect opportunity to step in for Sainz, for example. And that’s assuming Sainz is any good. Given Webber’s recent track record that can’t be assumed. 
Anyhow, if Wagner wasn’t going to play him then he should have been loaned. 
The club should have the sense to see the jury is out on Wagner himself. Relegation from end to the season and a short-term contract. It may well be the case that Mumba and his style of play would be key for our next manager. A loan with a recall option in January would have covered all the above. 

[king canary 7,681]

30 minutes ago, Segura said:

I'm not sure either, my two penneth worth...

Consecutive ncfc managers have deemed him not good enough to play at Prem / Champs level.

He played in the Championship for Peterborough on loan two seasons ago and made little impact.

No rival clubs (by that I mean a club challenging for promotion) have come in for him - were this different I could perhaps understand some of the criticism more.

 

I don't think it's a massive indicator that he was deemed not ready for the prem aged 20, nor that he didn't set the world on fire at a Peterborough side battling relegation at that same age.

[Google Bot 3,334]

31 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

https://www.pinkun.com/news/23518049.norwich-city-david-wagner-canaries-transfer-strategy/

You need to highlight the part where he says we don't need to sell to buy, because is very much clear that the opposite is being said in that article:

"Sell to invest, and this is exactly what we will do, and what we like to do. If you like to get new energy, new faces into a group"

[A Load of Squit 5,224]

5 minutes ago, S_81 said:

A million for a league player of the year, at such a young age, is bad business. 
Many of us would have involved him down that left side next season. He had the perfect opportunity to step in for Sainz, for example. And that’s assuming Sainz is any good. Given Webber’s recent track record that can’t be assumed. 
Anyhow, if Wagner wasn’t going to play him then he should have been loaned. 
The club should have the sense to see the jury is out on Wagner himself. Relegation from end to the season and a short-term contract. It may well be the case that Mumba and his style of play would be key for our next manager. A loan with a recall option in January would have covered all the above. 

Denying Bali his dream move to Argyle would be counter productive.

[S_81 890]

35 minutes ago, Segura said:

I'm not sure either, my two penneth worth...

Consecutive ncfc managers have deemed him not good enough to play at Prem / Champs level.

He played in the Championship for Peterborough on loan two seasons ago and made little impact.

No rival clubs (by that I mean a club challenging for promotion) have come in for him - were this different I could perhaps understand some of the criticism more.

 

I think you’ll find this season that Plymouth are more of a rival than those clubs who are indeed challenging for promotion. We won’t be one of those. We weren’t last year either. 

[Segura 84]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think it's a massive indicator that he was deemed not ready for the prem aged 20, nor that he didn't set the world on fire at a Peterborough side battling relegation at that same age.

Fair points, it's just that I don't quite understand some of the criticism over a player who, in my view, has contributed very little for ncfc in his three years here.

Also, in my view, there is a sizeable gap between the Champs and League One - I recall many on here pining for Twine a year ago, who barely got a kick at Burnley if I recall. I've no doubt Bali has potential, but he's only shown it at a lower level so far.

I've also come to accept that as fan I'm never going to know fully 100% what happens behind the scenes in transfers - in this case, the player may simply have wanted to leave rather than be backup. If that is the case, I would argue that the fee we've got is good business.

[Segura 84]

4 minutes ago, S_81 said:

I think you’ll find this season that Plymouth are more of a rival than those clubs who are indeed challenging for promotion. We won’t be one of those. We weren’t last year either. 

Fair points, we shall see. But why has no club of a higher stature than Plymouth come in for him?

[Kenny Foggo 1,117]

46 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why are so many convinced he is going to be a top player? How many have seen him play?

I guess being the best young player in a league below ours is a start... oh and more assists and goals than Idah..Ann's yes I saw him play a few times on TV and he looked good.

[A Load of Squit 5,224]

Look at his face in this picture, it says 'this is what I always wanted to happen'.

Congratulations Bali.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/sport/football/plymouth-argyle-sign-bali-mumba-8619804

[Kenny Foggo 1,117]

Just now, A Load of Squit said:

Look at his face in this picture, it says 'this is what I always wanted to happen'.

Congratulations Bali.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/sport/football/plymouth-argyle-sign-bali-mumba-8619804

Yep playing for a club who wants him, sees his potential and is moving forward must be a relief after us

[canarybubbles 1,950]

1 minute ago, Segura said:

Fair points, it's just that I don't quite understand some of the criticism over a player who, in my view, has contributed very little for ncfc in his three years here.

Also, in my view, there is a sizeable gap between the Champs and League One - I recall many on here pining for Twine a year ago, who barely got a kick at Burnley if I recall. I've no doubt Bali has potential, but he's only shown it at a lower level so far.

I've also come to accept that as fan I'm never going to know fully 100% what happens behind the scenes in transfers - in this case, the player may simply have wanted to leave rather than be backup. If that is the case, I would argue that the fee we've got is good business.

Yes, it was a lower level, but some of the people arguing this (not you) are being rather selective in their logic when they say that Fisher can take over as cover for RB. Somehow it doesn't seem to matter that he has come from an even lower level.

I hope for his sake it's the case that Bali wanted to leave. It doesn't sound as if Wagner went out of his way to get him involved on his return. Whether it's true or not, I expect the club to put out via the PinkUn fairly soon that it was the player's choice. I imagine they have been rather surprised by the reaction of many fans to this news (this is assuming the club gives a damn what fans think, which is debatable nowadays).

[A Load of Squit 5,224]

1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Yep playing for a club who wants him, sees his potential and is moving forward must be a relief after us

So you agree it's the best decision for all parties and all those complaining really haven't looked at it from the players point of view. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

1 minute ago, canarybubbles said:

Yes, it was a lower level, but some of the people arguing this (not you) are being rather selective in their logic when they say that Fisher can take over as cover for RB. Somehow it doesn't seem to matter that he has come from an even lower level.

This is a really good point. 

[S_81 890]

7 minutes ago, Segura said:

Fair points, we shall see. But why has no club of a higher stature than Plymouth come in for him?

Surprising that some other championship clubs didn’t test the water 

[Google Bot 3,334]

53 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Why are so many convinced he is going to be a top player? How many have seen him play?

I think when many of us felt down last season, seeing Mumba score against the scum, going on to get promotion and winning his award everyone had hope that he would come into this squad as a positive influence this season.

That's a lot of the negative reaction to his sale, I'm sure of it.