Struggle to sell

[Soldier on 160]

Sainz somewhat dispels the theory we aren’t active in other markets ?!

[ged in the onion bag 855]

45 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Sainz somewhat dispels the theory we aren’t active in other markets ?!

Fair point!   

[chicken 2,625]

On 04/07/2023 at 09:25, norfolkngood said:

They are running out only really Sarge ,Nunez ,Gibbs and Sara After Andy O and Aarons leave 

Rowe, and we just signed Sainz, with poss also Mumba, McCallum and perhaps more outside chance, Idah.

Edited July 7, 2023 by chicken

[norfolkngood 1,087]

9 hours ago, chicken said:

Rose, and we just signed Sainz, with poss also Mumba, McCallum and perhaps more outside chance, Idah.

I like Rowe and hope he has a good career exciting when he first appeared 

bit worried about his injuries though

hopefully get a full season out of him ,

idah really is a make or break season might be on a 5 year contract but no point if he does not take his chance 

 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Idah is a real problem. No longer that young- not anywhere near ready to be trusted to bang them in regularly - nor are either of the other strikers. As Chris Sutton posts today- goals will be the issue I suspect 

[Michael Starr 519]

Thought Tzolis looked lively against Barnet. Looks quick, sharp and tricky with the ball. The goals will come for him. I feel that he's played his way into contention with us now.

[chicken 2,625]

On 05/07/2023 at 09:01, norfolkngood said:

I like Rowe and hope he has a good career exciting when he first appeared 

bit worried about his injuries though

hopefully get a full season out of him ,

idah really is a make or break season might be on a 5 year contract but no point if he does not take his chance 

 

I have to say, with Idah, I do feel a loan to get regular games in his preferred position, if we're not going to offer them, could be the making of him.

At 22, I still think people are judging him far too harshly, especially when many bemoan the success of Moris and how we let him go too soon.

As it stands, it looks like he and Sarge will be duking it out for the out and out striker role with Barnes and others offering a more supporting role. Could be wrong but that's how it's looking at the moment.

[chicken 2,625]

On 04/07/2023 at 11:06, ged in the onion bag said:

Interesting that Burnley signed more than 10 players from Europe last summer, some pretty good ones too and cheap, yet we seem to be looking solely in South America!   

We're not though... Sainz... 

[Branston Pickle 3,659]

2 minutes ago, chicken said:

We're not though... Sainz... 

Indeed - we’ve signed a fair few players so far. Barnes, Sainz, Stacey, Duffy, Reyes, Fisher, Manning (most not all for the first team squad); only one from South America.

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

Realistically only 4 for the first team squad but we seem to have replaced those out of contract.

We've replaced Max and it doesn't look as though Sara is going anywhere despite the rumoured interest in him last season. Omo is the worry though as there could be a bit of late business. 

The season didn't finish until very late what with the Internationals so I hope we have shortlists lined up.

[shefcanary 2,409]

Given some of the recent confirmed moves and reported interests in overseas defenders by the big EPL clubs, I can see us not losing Omo and Max after all, certainly not to English clubs. 

Would that be a bad thing?

[jaberry2 550]

4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Given some of the recent confirmed moves and reported interests in overseas defenders by the big EPL clubs, I can see us not losing Omo and Max after all, certainly not to English clubs. 

Would that be a bad thing?

I suppose much would depend on the figures and who we have lined up to replace them & more importantly whether we can actually persuade them to come. If we can afford to keep them we could look reasonably strong this season with a few more shrewd signings. Potentially Camacho coming in, so with him and Sainz on the wings we would look better on paper in that area. Sargeant with Barnes behind, with Kenny and Sara in midfield. It would mean most of the spine of the team would remain the same with upgrades (theoretically speaking) on the wings. I imagine Rowe would get a considerable amount of minutes this season and he should be like a new signing.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

1 minute ago, jaberry2 said:

I suppose much would depend on the figures and who we have lined up to replace them & more importantly whether we can actually persuade them to come. If we can afford to keep them we could look reasonably strong this season with a few more shrewd signings. Potentially Camacho coming in, so with him and Sainz on the wings we would look better on paper in that area. Sargeant with Barnes behind, with Kenny and Sara in midfield. It would mean most of the spine of the team would remain the same with upgrades (theoretically speaking) on the wings. I imagine Rowe would get a considerable amount of minutes this season and he should be like a new signing.

Wheres the evidence on Sainz or Camacho.... fans can't just expect that they will be better than what we have and will adapt.   The top two English leagues are relentless and its not easy to just fit in seamlessly.   They might not prove any better than what we have already.   Not like our recruitment has a successful track record in any department, let alone wingers.  

If our spine includes Kenny yet again next season then we can expect an average season in any event.     

[jaberry2 550]

1 minute ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Wheres the evidence on Sainz or Camacho.... fans can't just expect that they will be better than what we have and will adapt.   The top two English leagues are relentless and its not easy to just fit in seamlessly.   They might not prove any better than what we have already.   Not like our recruitment has a successful track record in any department, let alone wingers.  

If our spine includes Kenny yet again next season then we can expect an average season in any event.     

Tbh Kenny was one of our better players last season and look what the squad achieved without him and Hanley. Sainz on paper has better stats than Hernadez who we all know has little end product, so you would expect if he can adapt will be better and should in theory improve at his age. Camacho we dont know at this stage whether there is any truth in that rumour. All remains to be seen, but for me they are better options based on what we had last season, which our wingers offered very little in terms of output.

[ged in the onion bag 855]

3 hours ago, jaberry2 said:

Tbh Kenny was one of our better players last season and look what the squad achieved without him and Hanley. Sainz on paper has better stats than Hernadez who we all know has little end product, so you would expect if he can adapt will be better and should in theory improve at his age. Camacho we dont know at this stage whether there is any truth in that rumour. All remains to be seen, but for me they are better options based on what we had last season, which our wingers offered very little in terms of output.

Kenny is an average Championship player.... he doesn't effect matches, control tempo, he's not a CDM and we won't improve sufficiently if he plays.    Regardless, he was missing at the end, he was there for most of it and we weren't very good.   

You cannot compare Sainz to Hernandez if the opponents / standard are different.   I have been around football for the best part of 50 years.... there is no evidence in which to judge Sainz just yet, just hearsay.

Edited July 7, 2023 by ged in the onion bag

[hogesar 9,676]

1 minute ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Kenny is an average Championship player.... he doesn't affect matches, control tempo, he's not a CDM and we won't improve sufficiently if he plays.    Regardless, he was missing at the end, he was there for most of it and we weren't very good.   

You cannot compare Sainz to Hernandez if the opponents / standard are different.   I have been around football for the best part of 50 years.... there is no evidence in which to judge Sainz just yet, just hearsay.

Whilst Mclean played in Wagners preferred style in the role Wagner gave him, we were ranging between 1.6ppg to 2ppg. Either playoffs or automatic promotion. 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Whilst Mclean played in Wagners preferred style in the role Wagner gave him, we were ranging between 1.6ppg to 2ppg. Either playoffs or automatic promotion. 

New manager bounce..... how many games was that?   From what I see, he's an average player who does a simple job for the team but nothing more.   He lacks defensive instinct, doesn't react quickly enough,   We need to look for better in my opinion.   

[jaberry2 550]

37 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Kenny is an average Championship player.... he doesn't effect matches, control tempo, he's not a CDM and we won't improve sufficiently if he plays.    Regardless, he was missing at the end, he was there for most of it and we weren't very good.   

You cannot compare Sainz to Hernandez if the opponents / standard are different.   I have been around football for the best part of 50 years.... there is no evidence in which to judge Sainz just yet, just hearsay.

Yes but you are writing off players long before they kick a ball. You can only theoretically talk about next season at this stage and how we will perform and which players will do well. I was purely saying on paper Sainz is an improvement on Hernadez with a better output, which generally speaking isnt hard.

And on the point of Kenny, when he was playing a deep lying midfielder he excelled in long balls and breaking up play. The problem is not him alone, there were multiple failings last year and that cant rest on one player.

Edited July 7, 2023 by jaberry2

[ZLF 274]

Kenny has shown he is a good champs player, not just average.  Under smith he was as anonymous and as poor as he has even been for us.  Which was a good barometer of just how poor smith & shakeospeare . 

 

He recovered well under wagner, without approaching his best, before his injury, playing a role he's not really suited to, sitting deeper than the cbs, who needed that support.   That did create issues, ceding far too much space in the centre of the pitch.   From here he, hanley & Gibson provided the direction their young colleagues  needed amd missed once all 3 were injured.

He will play a key role this season, although the additions of Barnes & Duffy may mean the coaching side is less essential on match days this season.  Hopefully though wagner needs to solves the issues of lost midfield control and inability of deep midfield to shield the back 4 and win the ball back

 

 

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

As it stands Kenny will be the first name on the team sheet, especially if we don't sign a  DM.

In some ways that's a fair reflection on him. In others I still feel our midfield lacks quality in depth.

I've said before I'd like to see Kenny further forward, not as he's crap in a deep lying position but because he could score many more goals for us. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,986]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Whilst Mclean played in Wagners preferred style in the role Wagner gave him, we were ranging between 1.6ppg to 2ppg. Either playoffs or automatic promotion. 

If Kenny is your stand out player in a season you are not getting promoted. 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

1 hour ago, jaberry2 said:

Yes but you are writing off players long before they kick a ball. You can only theoretically talk about next season at this stage and how we will perform and which players will do well. I was purely saying on paper Sainz is an improvement on Hernadez with a better output, which generally speaking isnt hard.

And on the point of Kenny, when he was playing a deep lying midfielder he excelled in long balls and breaking up play. The problem is not him alone, there were multiple failings last year and that cant rest on one player.

I haven't written anyone off, where did I say that.   I simply haven't seen Sainz play for Norwich or in this league so I will sensibly wait to make my mind up when he gets on the park and we can see what he can do in this environment.   Until then, I will avoid making assumptions that we are better off with him than Hernandez or anyone else based on no evidence whatsoever.   He may well be a good player, lets hope so.    

Re Kenny, I know he isn't solely the problem, he performed better from that deeper position because he had more time on the ball in which to pick and release a pass, but he's no CDM so can't do the defensive work as effectively as we will need to start improving and to give our defense more cover.   He definitely struggles when pressed and that doesn't bode well when we play the better teams.  There were massive failings again last season across the club and pitch.   I am not blaming him but your post suggested he and Sara being the mainstays in there., hence my observation.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Back to original point- it’s gone very quiet. Are we struggling to sell and are simply waiting for bids? Has Webbers head been turned meaning his focus isn’t really on the here and now? Is takeover on the rocks? What is going on I wonder? 

[hogesar 9,676]

4 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Back to original point- it’s gone very quiet. Are we struggling to sell and are simply waiting for bids? Has Webbers head been turned meaning his focus isn’t really on the here and now? Is takeover on the rocks? What is going on I wonder? 

We've already signed the joint highest amount of players in the division. I don't think it really requires a load of pointless speculation that there'll be quieter periods in a transfer window, else we'd end up with 12 new signings

Edited July 10, 2023 by hogesar