Struggle to sell

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

We can clearly sell any decent player at cut price. But after the underpar showing of last season might we actually struggle to sell max and omo for the amount needed to improve rather than degrade the side? That is my worry as we still wait for an upgrade to the squad 

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

Duffy is better than all of our other central defenders. Stacey is better than Byram and probably on par with Aarons. Barnes fits Wagner's system significantly more than Pukki did and whilst Sainz is an unknown the rest of our wingers are bad so there's a good chance he's an improvement. 

[hogesar 9,676]

15 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

We can clearly sell any decent player at cut price. But after the underpar showing of last season might we actually struggle to sell max and omo for the amount needed to improve rather than degrade the side? That is my worry as we still wait for an upgrade to the squad 

And this is yet another thread on the same subject by you.

We've been fantastic at selling players for good prices under Webber.

[ec-p 90]

I think we’ll start to see some offers in for Max once the under 21s championships have finished. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,721]

1 minute ago, ec-p said:

I think we’ll start to see some offers in for Max once the under 21s championships have finished. 

Its West Ham. Calling it. Hope he does well, model pro.

Omo on the other hand.. Needs a loan more than a sale.

[king canary 7,607]

It'll always look like a downgrade on paper when you're selling your better players.

I remember being certain we would struggle mightily after we sold Maddison, Murphy and Oliveriea in 2018- those three had combined to score 29 goals out of the 49 we managed that season. On paper pretty much everyone was a downgrade, being replaced with unknowns from Germany and Spain.

Not saying it will happen again this summer, just that a player may look like a downgrade on paper and turn out to be better suited to what we need.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

I think folk need to worry a little less, does you no good at all.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

18 minutes ago, hogesar said:

And this is yet another thread on the same subject by you.

We've been fantastic at selling players for good prices under Webber.

Yes you are right but only a couple have been signed by Webber 

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

18 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Its West Ham. Calling it. Hope he does well, model pro.

Omo on the other hand.. Needs a loan more than a sale.

Loan out Omo? Are you on glue? If we don't sell him to AC Milan for a rumoured £20m, loan him out to... what, a Championship rival? Or a League One club? Or just some random foreign club to get him off the books? Granted he didn't look at his best towards the end of last season, but if no one meets the asking price then he starts the season alongside Duffy.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Loan out Omo? Are you on glue? If we don't sell him to AC Milan for a rumoured £20m, loan him out to... what, a Championship rival? Or a League One club? Or just some random foreign club to get him off the books? Granted he didn't look at his best towards the end of last season, but if no one meets the asking price then he starts the season alongside Duffy.

i think it is strange how Aarons was supposed to be wanted by so many clubs in past  it has gone so quiet now ,

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

Just now, norfolkngood said:

i think it is strange how Aarons was supposed to be wanted by so many clubs in past  it has gone so quiet now ,

I'm sure there will be clubs interested, but it's a different game when someone's coming into the last year of their contract. Clubs know that we're going to sell him this summer, so they're trying to lowball us and wait for us to panic. Someone is bound to snap him up when he's back from the Euros, it's just a case of how much money we can squeeze out of them.

Rashica is the one that worries me more, we really need to get shot of him ASAP!

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Rashica is the one that worries me more, we really need to get shot of him ASAP!

Bar Sainz who is an unknown he's by far our best winger so I'm not sure why you're so desperate for us to get rid.  I think he's an ideal player for Wagner's system and there's potentially much more value in keeping him here than the 6-7m fee we seem to be linked with.

Of course I don't think he will stay but there are far worse outcomes than him still being here.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

1 minute ago, KeiranShikari said:

Bar Sainz who is an unknown he's by far our best winger so I'm not sure why you're so desperate for us to get rid.  I think he's an ideal player for Wagner's system and there's potentially much more value in keeping him here than the 6-7m fee we seem to be linked with.

Of course I don't think he will stay but there are far worse outcomes than him still being here.

I'm not saying he's a useless player, just that he's clearly someone who doesn't want to be here and needs a fresh start. If he said he definitely wants to stay and fight for his place then great, but I don't really see that happening.

[Haus 259]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

I'm not saying he's a useless player, just that he's clearly someone who doesn't want to be here and needs a fresh start. If he said he definitely wants to stay and fight for his place then great, but I don't really see that happening.

I think Rashica if he was to stay could still light up the championship 

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

6 minutes ago, Haus said:

I think Rashica if he was to stay could still light up the championship 

From the moment we were relegated from the Premier League he has made no attempt to pledge allegiance to us. He's on a PL contract and wants to play top-flight football. In fact, the reason that you're correct that he could light up the Championship is because he's only ever played top-flight football.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Sell any player at cut price? £15m for Lewis after Liverpool tried a lowball bid? £25m for Godfrey? £35m for Buendia (plus add-ons). Nice couple of extra million from an add-on in Maddison being sold from Leicester. Heck, he got seven figures for Marley bloody Watkins!

This sounds like an inverted rehash of "spunking cash up the wall". Webber might have had some questionable purchases when getting players in, but he's certainly done well at getting good money in for us as part of negotiations.

Edited July 3, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[Haus 259]

20 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

From the moment we were relegated from the Premier League he has made no attempt to pledge allegiance to us. He's on a PL contract and wants to play top-flight football. In fact, the reason that you're correct that he could light up the Championship is because he's only ever played top-flight football.

When you sign to a team at the bottom end of the table, the risk of relegation is obvious, he knew that when signing the contract.  We have a new coach, if he could get some buy in, then selling at any cost isn't the only way

[BurwellCanary 216]

51 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Loan out Omo? Are you on glue? If we don't sell him to AC Milan for a rumoured £20m, loan him out to... what, a Championship rival? Or a League One club? Or just some random foreign club to get him off the books? Granted he didn't look at his best towards the end of last season, but if no one meets the asking price then he starts the season alongside Duffy.

It would help his learning process (he is still young) to play along side Duffy. Definately one to keep I would suggest

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

4 minutes ago, Haus said:

When you sign to a team at the bottom end of the table, the risk of relegation is obvious, he knew that when signing the contract.  We have a new coach, if he could get some buy in, then selling at any cost isn't the only way

I agree, but getting the buy-in is the big stumbling block. If he decides he's up for the Championship then great, but I don't see it happening personally. Time will tell.

[sgncfc 1,228]

20 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Sell any player at cut price? £15m for Lewis after Liverpool tried a lowball bid? £25m for Godfrey? £35m for Buendia (plus add-ons). Nice couple of extra million from an add-on in Maddison being sold from Leicester. Heck, he got seven figures for Marley bloody Watkins!

This sounds like an inverted rehash of "spunking cash up the wall". Webber might have had some questionable purchases when getting players in, but he's certainly done well at getting good money in for us as part of negotiations.

Agreed. But if he really did reject £20m+ for Omo that might come back to haunt him. Getting £11m for Josh Murphy remains the pinnacle of Webber's negotiation skill in my opinion.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

46 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I'm sure there will be clubs interested, but it's a different game when someone's coming into the last year of their contract. Clubs know that we're going to sell him this summer, so they're trying to lowball us and wait for us to panic. Someone is bound to snap him up when he's back from the Euros, it's just a case of how much money we can squeeze out of them.

Rashica is the one that worries me more, we really need to get shot of him ASAP!

Yes it is a problem just say we have 15 million tied up with those two ,

we could end up losing on targets if we do not have the money to spend on those players till later on ,

But Rashica is the worst because he wants to join them and maybe only them ,

they know we need the money and fast and can not afford to have him sitting here not playing 

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I'm not saying he's a useless player, just that he's clearly someone who doesn't want to be here and needs a fresh start. If he said he definitely wants to stay and fight for his place then great, but I don't really see that happening.

I think it would be a matter of man management more than a player simply deciding he isn't going to put in effort if he stays in the Championship. He seems to be a player that is one of the hardest workers on the pitch if he's in a team playing to his strengths and matching his ambitions. He seems to be the sort of player that is desperate to impress and I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't see that happening under Smith's reign, hence wanting to get out. Two of our model pros (Pukki and Aarons) spoke about how bad it was under Smith. I think Wagner could have the personality to get him on board.

Remember both Buendia and Cantwell were dropped for acting unprofessionally at the beginning of a title winning season. Both played key parts.

10 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

From the moment we were relegated from the Premier League he has made no attempt to pledge allegiance to us. He's on a PL contract and wants to play top-flight football. In fact, the reason that you're correct that he could light up the Championship is because he's only ever played top-flight football.

What players did 'pledge allegiance' last summer? Hernandez and Hugil are the ones that stick out as being excited for the season and I think we know why that was.

Of course I think the club will be more than happy to get his wages off the books without attempting to turn it around for him here. Fans won't care too much because 'Onel Hernandez runs down the wing for me' but I think we're potentially massively shooting ourselves in the foot.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

Agreed. But if he really did reject £20m+ for Omo that might come back to haunt him. Getting £11m for Josh Murphy remains the pinnacle of Webber's negotiation skill in my opinion.

Could be totally wrong, but wasn't that a bid similar to what we paid for Gunn? Basic fee there was £2.5m IIRC and totalling over £10m if every single add-on was hit, some quite likely, some only in exceptional circumstances.

Can definitely understand a rejection if said £20m+ bid only had, say, £5m up front.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

3 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Of course I think the club will be more than happy to get his wages off the books without attempting to turn it around for him here. Fans won't care too much because 'Onel Hernandez runs down the wing for me' but I think we're potentially massively shooting ourselves in the foot.

I hear everything you're saying. but it's all about where his head's at. He could be a great asset for us if he wants to be, but he seems set on going to Galatasaray. If Wagner can convince him to stay then I'd be all for it!

[norfolkngood 1,087]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

 

Can definitely understand a rejection if said £20m+ bid only had, say, £5m up front.

But when we buy a player it will be instalments as well ,i admit if a player is 20 million you want at least 10 mill to start ,

If we got 10 million then 4 x 2.5 million would come in handy with the likely price we will be buying 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, norfolkngood said:

But when we buy a player it will be instalments as well ,i admit if a player is 20 million you want at least 10 mill to start ,

If we got 10 million then 4 x 2.5 million would come in handy with the likely price we will be buying 

Aye, the key point is that it might have been a big offer in full but with only a small amount in advance, which is what I very much suspect considering Omo has potential and is still very young in terms of age and indeed in professional experience.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

It'll always look like a downgrade on paper when you're selling your better players.

I remember being certain we would struggle mightily after we sold Maddison, Murphy and Oliveriea in 2018- those three had combined to score 29 goals out of the 49 we managed that season. On paper pretty much everyone was a downgrade, being replaced with unknowns from Germany and Spain.

Not saying it will happen again this summer, just that a player may look like a downgrade on paper and turn out to be better suited to what we need.

That is fair. It’s also true that our amazing summer when we signed Pukki and Buendia for peanuts is a rare thing, we won the lottery that year. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, BurwellCanary said:

It would help his learning process (he is still young) to play along side Duffy. Definately one to keep I would suggest

Question - have Omo / Duffy / Idah all played together for Ireland much? Obvious team synergy if they have....

[KeiranShikari 1,412]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Question - have Omo / Duffy / Idah all played together for Ireland much? Obvious team synergy if they have....

Omo has played with Duffy a few times (in a back 3) but both Idah and Omo have played from the bench in a good % of their national team games. 

I think Omo and Duffy would actually be a nice complementary pairing at CB but obviously Omo is almost certainly off.

 

[norfolkngood 1,087]

32 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

That is fair. It’s also true that our amazing summer when we signed Pukki and Buendia for peanuts is a rare thing, we won the lottery that year. 

i think the reason i feel like the squad is downgrading is the players we have signed have no resale value or potential a part from Sainz

we are selling the younger players and replacing them with older pro's 

fine for the short term but longer term Gibbs / Sarge are the only ones left with Growth in future price 

Edited July 3, 2023 by norfolkngood