Premier League - best in the world?

[dylanisabaddog 4,969]

It feels like every week we're told that the Premier League is the best in the world. But is it? 

In the 30 years since the EPL started there have been 60 European finals. The winners come from 

Spain  23

Italy  10

England   10

Germany  8

others from Russia, France, Portugal, Ukraine 

I'm sure some will say that the EPL is actually the most exciting but I'm not sure about that any more. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by dylanisabaddog

[duke63 545]

No it isn't. Its just the best promoted.

We are getting to be more and more like the Scottish PL where its two clubs fighting it out every year.

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

There must be some merit in the product:

"The Premier League currently generates around 1.5 billion Pounds per season from their shared agreement with its local broadcasting partners – SKY Sport, BT Sport, Amazon Prime and BBC Sport. On the other hand, the league earns around 1.3 billion Pounds from overseas TV rights."  

[Conrad 178]

It depends on how you determine 'best'. In my opinion it is not the best technically but may be the most 'exciting' due to the pace the game is played at. It encompasses a number of the better players in the world due to the wages paid, but does not and never has attracted those players at the very top level of the game (discounting any that may have been born and bred in the UK and therefore come through the system).

As others have said, the Premier League has lost its competitiveness in terms of who may win the title. In real terms there are two or three clubs that may have a chance (assuming Man City have an off season), the majority of the rest are just fighting relegation although some may not admit it.

[tricky974 61]

I would say that the premier League is the most exciting, I know it's promoted better than any other league but when you look at winners let's say from the past 10 seasons from other leagues bundesliga for example Bayern Munich have won them all, Italy's serie a Juventus dominated the league (possibly illegally) apart from the last 3 seasons, French ligue 1 PSG have won 8 out of the 10 and Spain's la Liga is generally between real Madrid and Barcelona, Athletico Madrid have won a couple in the past ten seasons, then when you compare that to the premier League we have had 6 winners in the past 10 seasons and I would also say that the other teams in the league are more likely to upset, we have more teams that give it a go, I would also say that the premier League doesn't help out teams in European competitions where as other leagues seem to assist there teams more.

[dylanisabaddog 4,969]

7 minutes ago, tricky974 said:

I would say that the premier League is the most exciting, I know it's promoted better than any other league but when you look at winners let's say from the past 10 seasons from other leagues bundesliga for example Bayern Munich have won them all, Italy's serie a Juventus dominated the league (possibly illegally) apart from the last 3 seasons, French ligue 1 PSG have won 8 out of the 10 and Spain's la Liga is generally between real Madrid and Barcelona, Athletico Madrid have won a couple in the past ten seasons, then when you compare that to the premier League we have had 6 winners in the past 10 seasons and I would also say that the other teams in the league are more likely to upset, we have more teams that give it a go, I would also say that the premier League doesn't help out teams in European competitions where as other leagues seem to assist there teams more.

But Spain consistently wins the UEFA cup which suggests they have better strength in depth than us. 

[tricky974 61]

17 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

But Spain consistently wins the UEFA cup which suggests they have better strength in depth than us. 

The Spanish teams do seem to do well in the European tournaments Real Madrid in Champions League and Seville in UEFA cup I just think they are better in those competitions, but I think Real Madrid are a weird one and I think the league in Spain when it comes to the other teams are just not as competitive so they can manage being in Europe better, more often than not in the premier league our teams seem to struggle being in both competitions.

Edited June 1, 2023 by tricky974

[king canary 7,654]

Up until now the Premier League's best element is that it's competitive in a way most other leagues aren't. The problem is that is fading now- City have won 5 of the last 6 and they look very difficult to chase down.

I'd argue that the teams at the bottom of the Premier League probably have better players than their equivalent in Spain or Germany due to the money they have to spend. I'd expect that a team like West Ham is probably better than Getafe for example. 

[TheBaldOne66 697]

All top European leagues are roughly the same, some have only one team capable of winning it like PSG in France, others 2 at most, Germany has Bayern and Dortmund, Spain has Barcelona and Real so the Prem is very similar really, it’s the money it generates that sets it apart rather than quality 

[PurpleCanary 5,579]

19 minutes ago, king canary said:

Up until now the Premier League's best element is that it's competitive in a way most other leagues aren't. The problem is that is fading now- City have won 5 of the last 6 and they look very difficult to chase down.

I'd argue that the teams at the bottom of the Premier League probably have better players than their equivalent in Spain or Germany due to the money they have to spend. I'd expect that a team like West Ham is probably better than Getafe for example. 

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by PurpleCanary

[Commonsense 638]

4 hours ago, tricky974 said:

The Spanish teams do seem to do well in the European tournaments Real Madrid in Champions League and Seville in UEFA cup I just think they are better in those competitions, but I think Real Madrid are a weird one and I think the league in Spain when it comes to the other teams are just not as competitive so they can manage being in Europe better, more often than not in the premier league our teams seem to struggle being in both competitions.

The overall facts don’t support this analysis though. UEFA uses a coefficient system to assess the progress of different leagues in its competitions and has done so for many years. Spain led this for a while until about 5 years ago. Since then the Premier League has built a clear lead, with Spain comfortably in 2nd place. Germany and Italy are usually very close to each other in 3rd and 4th.

[Google Bot 3,298]

5 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

But Spain consistently wins the UEFA cup which suggests they have better strength in depth than us.

I don't watch a great deal of European leagues, but I presumed the English league was more competitive, plus the additional domestic cup competitions filling the calendar.   

i.e. Spanish teams can maybe afford to run at a lower gear in their domestic games?

If you compare Spanish league winner distribution it shows a larger gulf with the top two who rule that league, vs more distribution across eras in the English league.

i.e. Spanish (From 1929):

English (From 1890):

Just my take on it.  If we saw Man City dominate the domestic league for another 20 seasons then I don't doubt that they would be killing it in Europe too.  But we already see teams like Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd (building again?) who are pushing.

The standard of competition has always been far greater, and I think that's why you could argue that it's the 'best' league. Throw in teams like Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Spurs, Chelsea... It's a whole different prospect than La Liga.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Google Bot

[dylanisabaddog 4,969]

@Google BotSeville are 11th in the Spanish league but have just won the Europa Cup, or whatever it's called now. That's the equivalent of Crystal Palace winning a European competition. Face it, they're better than us. 

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

I'd say the Bundesliga is a little more competitive in terms of getting into Europe, but boring in that you pretty much know Bayern will be first or second. The fact that Union Berlin have just hit the Champions League for the first time in their history and Freiburg have had one of their occasional surges and got into Europe peaks a fair bit, and the 2. Bundesliga is just as hard as the Championship when it comes to teams tripping over each other.

[Google Bot 3,298]

25 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Seville are 11th in the Spanish league but have just won the Europa Cup, or whatever it's called now. That's the equivalent of Crystal Palace winning a European competition. Face it, they're better than us. 

Face what? I don't care who's "best", just providing a reason why it's said about the prem league.

In regards to Sevilla, Europa is their can,  Most clubs in this country see Europa as an inconvenience as they've failed to get into CL.  Finishing in a better position in the prem league is more advantageous to them as a club.

For Sevilla, however, this is their badge of honour, it's very much a question of priority.  Also as I said previously, Spanish teams can place more priority in European competitions as the domestic challenge is nowhere near as tough.

Which is why it's good to see West Ham going for a European cup, I like to see teams go at it.  Their domestic league form has suffered though, coincidence?  Not a clue, don't follow them enough to know.

That's just my take on it.  Don't care who's best, or playing countries off against each other - this game is mostly about money now, and that's why so much focus goes on Prem League positions as it earns the clubs millions.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Google Bot

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

The PL has the best bottom 15 or so clubs of the league in Europe without a doubt. That combined with the fact it's extremely physical, most managers play very pragmatically and the tempo of the game is much higher than in other leagues makes it the hardest league to get results in for me. For me if you stick Barca or Bayern in this league they finish top 4 and challenge for the title, but if you stuck one of our last two promoted teams in La Liga or The Bundesliga then we survive so it's a different type of league. 

It's no wonder that the top PL clubs struggle in Europe a bit because they come up against fresher opposition who play a different way to what they're used to week in week out. I don't think it's the best league to watch though due to the aforementioned physicality and pragmatic approach of so many coaches but it's probably the most compelling and has the most riding on staying in the league. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by Christoph Stiepermann

[kirku 1,334]

If the PL is the best and most competetive league, it stands to reason that the teams would actually find it harder in European competitions, because squad rotation would be much harder to pull off.

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

I guess the excitement of the premier league depends on who you support.

I hate it.

I'm sure arsenal fans and money cheat citeh fans love it.

Interesting to see how Everton, saints and other serial book end clubs fans feel 

[Google Bot 3,298]

9 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Interesting to see how Everton, saints and other serial book end clubs fans feel 

At a guess, I expect they won't care about returning to the prem league and happy to fight out for a playoff place each season in the championship instead.

[Google Bot 3,298]

12 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

However, with riches, ultimately comes overspending and that very rarely results in getting your money's worth.

It also means that clubs setup to earn as much revenue as possible, rather than going at competitions from a sporting perspective, and that trickles down to the supporters.

If the FA cup had a prize pot of £100m and the runners-up relatively increased,  it would become hugely prestigious again.  That's just how sad the game has become. 

Same competition, just the pot changes.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Google Bot

[essex canary 504]

18 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

The PL has the best bottom 15 or so clubs of the league in Europe without a doubt. That combined with the fact it's extremely physical, most managers play very pragmatically and the tempo of the game is much higher than in other leagues makes it the hardest league to get results in for me. For me if you stick Barca or Bayern in this league they finish top 4 and challenge for the title, but if you stuck one of our last two promoted teams in La Liga or The Bundesliga then we survive so it's a different type of league. 

It's no wonder that the top PL clubs struggle in Europe a bit because they come up against fresher opposition who play a different way to what they're used to week in week out. I don't think it's the best league to watch though due to the aforementioned physicality and pragmatic approach of so many coaches but it's probably the most compelling and has the most riding on staying in the league. 

Would we stay up in La Liga?

For example Getafe are still in the relegation battle on 41 points only 8 points behind Sevilla.

The Spanish game is slow build up, is largely Hispanic in terms of players though that includes many Argentines and Uruguayans. On average focusses on more mature players. Spain apparently has 10 times the number of football coaches compared to England. La Liga is easily the best of the continental leagues including or perhaps especially the bottom end.