Defenders

[PockthorpePete 331]

If goalies fall into that category, then we are in 'good hands' with Gunn and Krul. No need for a 3rd keeper. There are enough developing who need to be getting regular games out on loan. An emergency loan keeper, if needed.

Aarons. Would seem a move is likely. Unless we can agree a contract.  Question is, would he automatically command a regular PL place now.  Mumba coming back is a bonus. Would he now play second fiddle to Aarons though ?  McCallum still looks raw. We were hammered down the left v B'Pool when Giannoulis went off.   Sorenson has looked vulnerable at the back. He does not seem to have 'kicked on'. Omo is not as good (at the moment) as perhaps thought.

Could City go back to Derby for Eirin Cashin. He's 22 and out of contract in 2024. Would a step up to the Championship be tempting. One step from the PL. An RoI international at U18/21 level.  Perhaps  Idah And Omo could put in a word, as Hanley is not likely to be back until early autumn. Gibson should be fit by the beginning of the season as should McLean.

Sell Aarons, buy Cashin ............... a sort of Cashin on Max 😊

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

No need for a third keeper?  It depends what you mean - we definitely need cover in case of injury/suspension, but should absolutely be hoping/expecting one of our several reserves will fill the gap.

[cambridgeshire canary 7,799]

Jayden Bogle could be a good shout. Always seemed solid and has a lot of potential.. And has been injured a lot too so will fit in perfectly!

[Yobocop 1,444]

Nice post mate, couldn’t really follow it but loved the use of the bold text for the players, looked pretty 😉 

We need a 3rd choice keeper unless you want Kenny McLean going in goal 

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

Can't see Mumba staying a full-back going off that spell at Plymouth. Do think this could be a season for another youngster or two to make a leap. Could Tomkinson or Hills make it at centre-half? If a winger comes in, will Rowe and Springett both go on loan? 

Agree with the cheap, experienced third keeper. Young goalies need games. They'll not perfect their craft on the bench.

[PockthorpePete 331]

41 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Can't see Mumba staying a full-back going off that spell at Plymouth. Do think this could be a season for another youngster or two to make a leap. Could Tomkinson or Hills make it at centre-half? If a winger comes in, will Rowe and Springett both go on loan? 

Agree with the cheap, experienced third keeper. Young goalies need games. They'll not perfect their craft on the bench.

Wasting money on a keeper who will almost certainly sit on his backside for the season seems extremely wasteful, if not silly. The current U21 keeper would be up to it. Hopefully others who were out on loan would be out getting experience., as last season. We no longer have a PL budget.

Tomkinson is way off the first team, as is Hills. Perhaps Tomkinson is up to an L1 loan this season. Hills needs another season with us at u21 level.

Away from defender, both Rowe and Kamara could do with sharpening up elsewhere. Half a season in L1, maybe.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

Just now, PockthorpePete said:

Wasting money on a keeper who will almost certainly sit on his backside for the season seems extremely wasteful, if not silly. The current U21 keeper would be up to it. Hopefully others who were out on loan would be out getting experience., as last season. We no longer have a PL budget.

Tomkinson is way off the first team, as is Hills. Perhaps Tomkinson is up to an L1 loan this season. Hills needs another season with us at u21 level.

Away from defender, both Rowe and Kamara could do with sharpening up elsewhere. Half a season in L1, maybe.

Couldn't disagree more with the bit in bold. Young players need first-team games, and that's particularly true for young goalkeepers simply as the mental aspect of goalkeeping is so prevalent. A U21 goalie should be a suitable standard if we really have to, but you're better off letting them play first-team at a lower level to get them hardened and who knows - maybe they kick on and become even better. Shouldn't be too difficult to find a third-choicer on a free or for very little. McGovern in that regard was perfect.

Probably right re. Tomkinson or Hills, Omo got his chance as he really came along at the end of a season/start of a pre-season and IIRC Farke initially thought of a loan then decided it was worth a go. I was wondering if one of those leaps could come up.

Agree re. Rowe and Kamara. Would include Springett in there too.

[PockthorpePete 331]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Couldn't disagree more with the bit in bold. Young players need first-team games, and that's particularly true for young goalkeepers simply as the mental aspect of goalkeeping is so prevalent. A U21 goalie should be a suitable standard if we really have to, but you're better off letting them play first-team at a lower level to get them hardened and who knows - maybe they kick on and become even better. Shouldn't be too difficult to find a third-choicer on a free or for very little. McGovern in that regard was perfect.

Probably right re. Tomkinson or Hills, Omo got his chance as he really came along at the end of a season/start of a pre-season and IIRC Farke initially thought of a loan then decided it was worth a go. I was wondering if one of those leaps could come up.

Agree re. Rowe and Kamara. Would include Springett in there too.

I'm not sure about your first paragraph. I have stated that keepers should be out of loan playing games. There will always have to be an U21 keeper at CR. We struck lucky with McGovern. If a keeper is out of contract and has not been signed there is a good reason. So rather than waste money on a keeper who will probably not be any better. Do what other clubs do. Draft in their U21 keeper, if both Krul and Gunn are out.

It is a balance between having enough players and having youngsters sat around, not getting first team games. Gibbs was an exception. Signed from Binner youth and made the first team quite quick. We have done this frequently. Gordon, Lewis Buendia, Maddison, Aarons.  It is only when we have large sums to spend that we go awry.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

3 minutes ago, PockthorpePete said:

I'm not sure about your first paragraph. I have stated that keepers should be out of loan playing games. There will always have to be an U21 keeper at CR. We struck lucky with McGovern. If a keeper is out of contract and has not been signed there is a good reason. So rather than waste money on a keeper who will probably not be any better. Do what other clubs do. Draft in their U21 keeper, if both Krul and Gunn are out.

It is a balance between having enough players and having youngsters sat around, not getting first team games. Gibbs was an exception. Signed from Binner youth and made the first team quite quick. We have done this frequently. Gordon, Lewis Buendia, Maddison, Aarons.  It is only when we have large sums to spend that we go awry.

Which is why there's always room for a Carlo Nash. By definition, a third-choice goalie isn't someone who is going to cost much so the bit in bold really isn't that applicable. Ideal scenario would be a veteran who's looking to get the coaching badges and I'm actually surprised McGovern didn't hang around.

As you said, keepers should be out on loan getting games. That's precisely why I don't really want to see a promising youngster there. Sure, they might do a Barden and hold the fort for a couple, but they'll not learn as much from the odd game here and there as an emergency at our more rarefied level compared to being a first-teamer at L2 or National League level, getting regular match practice and often pushed around a bit more.

The improved value for them could easily offset the price of an experienced pair of hands holding the fort as number three.

[Capt. Pants 5,013]

Defence concerns me a lot. If Aarons goes, we'll need a replacement as Mumba doesn't have much experience there. Tomkinson couldn't get a game in League 2 and Wagner was in no mind to try any of the other youngsters. 

At left back he doesn't seem able to decide who out of Gian or Sam is best and often makes a substitution at that position. They're are both adequate but no more and I wouldn't be surprised to see one leave if an acceptable offer is received.

Hanley looks to have played his last game this year, so we're looking at 2 x CB, a RB, and that assumes Aarons stays, possibly a 3rd GK...

[Barham Blitz 869]

5 hours ago, Yobocop said:

 

We need a 3rd choice keeper unless you want Kenny McLean going in goal 

I don't know - with all that pointing he could tip a few round the post ...

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

10 hours ago, Yobocop said:

We need a 3rd choice keeper unless you want Kenny McLean going in goal 

No we don't. Dan Barden, Archie Mair or Jon McCracken should be given the opportunity.

[Petriix 3,219]

[tl;dr: defence is fine, sort the midfield... More skill, more discipline, narrower, fewer holes] 

I'm probably fairly unique in thinking that our actual defenders aren't really a problem, save the occasional blunder which all players make. When people talk about a fullback "getting hammered" they've usually witnessed an overload caused by the midfield failing to track a run.

Against Blackpool, Hernandez became increasingly ill-disciplined as he pressed on leaving huge holes behind him. That's fairly typical of our issues since abandoning Farkeball as we tend to have too much distance between our midfielders. 

We need to get our midfield sorted to make our defence function properly. That means signing players with the right attributes as well as playing the right tactical system; both of which we've spectacularly failed at for two seasons. In my opinion the two biggest issues are positioning and passing, and it's why strikers on the wing (or attacking focused wingers in general) are so problematic.

We need midfielders who are skillful on the ball, capable of receiving possession under pressure and moving it on at speed. Recently our attacking transitions have been weak because we lose the ball too easily through poor first touches and inaccurate passing. This has a knock-on effect on the defence because they don't have confidence in passing into the midfield.

In general I want our midfield to be a tighter unit, not necessarily deeper, but closer together. Wide midfielders should generally be narrower and form proper defensive and attacking partnerships with the fullbacks. The central midfield needs far more control than we've seen in recent times. That means more of a focus on staying tighter and narrower rather than hitting the channels all the time and allowing the fullbacks to provide the width. 

I would be reasonably happy with a switch to wingbacks; with a CDM dropping between the CBs it's basically how we setup anyway whether they're attacking fullbacks or wingbacks is largely irrelevant. The main thing is finding a better number 6 to be a combination of the enforcer and deep lying playmaker, and pairing him with a disciplined, mobile 8 who goes box-to-box while staying pretty central and tracking back as required.

With a more coherent midfield, we could likely push the whole unit higher and achieve the high-intensity press that Wagner seems to want. The main thing is decreasing the distance between the lines so, if the midfield are pressing, the defence needs to step up too, otherwise (as we've regularly seen) it's too easy to pass through us. 

 

[Mello Yello 2,572]

Build from the Back....

[Robert N. LiM 6,299]

5 minutes ago, Petriix said:

The main thing is finding a better number 6

Surely this must be the summer we actually sign a functioning DM. Surely? Stuart? Stuart?

Edit: Really good post, @Petriix, btw

Edited May 13, 2023 by Robert N. LiM

[Yobocop 1,444]

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

No we don't. Dan Barden, Archie Mair or Jon McCracken should be given the opportunity.

Are they not goalkeepers? 

[KiwiScot 1,684]

GK's - Promote 1 of the youth ones to the squad and attempt to loan them out for first team action if possible. If unable to find a loan to develop them(even as 2nd choice) keep them as 3rd GK. If loaned out bring in an old hand like McGovern who never needs to play for a 1-2 year contract.

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

9 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

Are they not goalkeepers? 

Yes.

[Yobocop 1,444]

53 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Yes.

They’ll be your 3rd choice keepers then fella 

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

15 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

No need for a third keeper?  It depends what you mean - we definitely need cover in case of injury/suspension, but should absolutely be hoping/expecting one of our several reserves will fill the gap.

We have the young lad Barden he’s adequate cover as a third choice. Plus Archie Mair also. We have some good young keepers in the club. 

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

17 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

We have the young lad Barden he’s adequate cover as a third choice. Plus Archie Mair also. We have some good young keepers in the club. 

Yup - that was what I was meaning.  The idea we don’t need a third choice is not right, but we have a pretty long list of youngsters, one of whom you’d hope might be ready - three 22 year olds in Barden, Mair and McCracken.  

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Yup - that was what I was meaning.  The idea we don’t need a third choice is not right, but we have a pretty long list of youngsters, one of whom you’d hope might be ready - three 22 year olds in Barden, Mair and McCracken.  

We’ve never had a problem producing top young keepers it’s one area of the pitch in certain that we could produce for from the academy should they cash in on Gunn or Krul leaves this summer. 

[NFN FC 1,142]

Who needs defenders?! We should play 10 strikers and Idah in goal. 

[ZLF 335]

With Derby failing to gain promotion from league one I wonder if Kristin Bielik is an option for us at cdm or cb, now recovered from a bad injury and proven at champs level.