Wagner's interview

[canarybubbles 2,199]

These are direct quotes taken from the PinkUn interview:

"This takes a bit of time to change your mindset. But it's now on everybody. We ask whoever supports us, everyone around the club, to not speak any longer about how disappointing this season has been, or where they feel we should be. Who cares?"

"Now everybody has to really feel, ‘Come on, there's a chance, a real chance and we don't have to wait another year for it. We can make it happen now’. And this is exactly what it's all about."

Is Wagner pis*ing in the wind here? Many of us seem happier talking about 'how disappointing this season has been' or attacking our players, either en masse or singling out our chosen scapegoat. I accept I'm a hypocrite here (because I've had a few pops at Sargent recently) but why can't we all get behind the team now that Smith has gone and we are at least looking decent half of the time? I often see the argument that if we go up, we will be embarrassing again. So what? Why should we care what non-City fans think or say? We play for ourselves, not for them. If they want to take the pi*s out of us or praise Forest for spending 100m because that proves they are 'trying', let them. To quote Wagner, 'who cares?'

Promotion would mean another injection of PL cash and might also encourage the Americans to invest more than they would for a team in the Championship. It should also massively lift the spirits of the players and fans, who would see an unlikely success at the end of what has been a gruelling two years.

[Indy 3,471]

It really makes little difference if we talk on a forum about how poor players have been this season, that has no effect on the fact we give goals away with poor mistakes virtually every game, the players pass sideways more then forwards and our strikers can’t find the net! As far as I can tell we get good following home and away and I’m pretty sure fans don’t throw away their hard earned cash in theses times of austerity to be bored and massage the bruised ego’s of over paid journey men who get a little fragile playing footy!

I don’t get it, this togetherness and not to be critical issue is always raised when clubs struggle, the one constant is the good level of support of our club, the fact we’re pretty much under performing is down to the player and it’s up to the manager to motivate, set them up and change their mindset to get the best out of a squad, if that squad isn’t good enough after 46 games to get promoted then obviously if our target was promotion it’s going to be talked about as failure.

From the ****e I’ve witnessed in the last two games the supporters should be praised for the support and the lack of criticism really, Stoke should have won easily and there’s no way we should be taught a footballing lesson by them when you compare the two sets of players! Gunny was immense thankfully.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

When, if this forum is anything to go by, a fair proportion of our fans don't actually want promotion, then Wagner is indeed p_ssing gainst the wind. Presumably, then, these fans were truly delighted that we lost against Sunderland as there is little other conclusion to draw from this stance. Surely unique among the supporters of every other Football League club.

Reasons (as they state.)>>

(1) The Premier League is polluted by money, money-men and greed.

It is therefore not a genuine competition, as it is dominated by the richest clubs.

All true of course, but the other side of that coin is that NCFC need regular top league excursions to survive without mounting debt and the possibility of eventual L.1, extinction. 

What difference would be made to the evolvement of the PL if NCFC were to be forever in the hinterlands of the Football League. One day it will explode of its own doing in any case. Nothing is forever. I realise that the Canary fan's mentality is concreted in pauperism and that we always seem to have been up against it financially, even in our glory days of European football, but that state of mind shouldn't mean we happily accept second best. 

(2) We as a club become a laughingstock. The OP you says, "Who cares?" I will add, "Who knows?)

(3) The Chumps is more fun. We can actually win games rather than be beaten every week. 

Half true (Manchester City?) Besides, the club gets greater exposure (worldwide) and is at least talked about rather than being a lower league nonentity in a backwater when in the PL. That's fun, even if you dislike MotD.

Why is the Championship more fun in any case? The football is decent for sure, even though it has more than its fair share of drab talent free games, but it is still a million miles away from that of the PL which means some of the world's best teams and superstars grace the Carrow Road turf in front of our very eyes. I wouldn't mind seeing Haarland against us next season, even though he will likely pile up on his number of hat tricks at our expense. 

On top of this, the Championship and lower are gradually and steadily becoming ruled by the money as well and, with some exceptions such as Luton Town this season, the Chumps can be nearly as predictable as the Premier League. I'm not just talking about parachute payments here, either,  even little League One Ipswich's fans claim to have billions behind their club and already some of them are aspiring to ITFC being at the top table again. They are not the only well-financed L.1. club. 

It has already been stated that self-sustainability and Premier League existence are incompatible. Soon it might be the case that this is also true of the second tier as well. 

The OP's point about the new American part ownership being more likely to invest more cash in a Premier League side than one languishing in mid-table Chumps mediocrity is very good and probably very true. Think about it.

Besides (repeat,) I, for one, wouldn't mind in the slightest if we retain our current status of being top of the Yo-Yo Club League forever more. 

At least, Wagner doesn't seem concerned about the challenges of another promotion. Perhaps he hasn't been in Norfolk long enough.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,633]

Can’t help but feel he’s unwisely (and unnecessarily) setting himself up to fail? 

With our current squad issues around motivation, desire, inconsistencies, etc, the last thing I’d be doing is trying to build excitement and expectations. 

Most fans accept the need to change and transition. This sort of Rhetoric from Wagner  would be perfectly acceptable at the moment, IMO. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Indy 3,471]

7 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

When, if this forum is anything to go by, a fair proportion of our fans don't actually want promotion, then Wagner is indeed p_ssing gainst the wind. Presumably, then, these fans were truly delighted that we lost against Sunderland as there is little other conclusion to draw from this stance. Surely unique among the supporters of every other Football League club.

Reasons:

(1) The Premier League is polluted by money, money-men and greed.

It is therefore not a genuine competition, as it is dominated by the richest clubs.

All true of course, but the other side of that coin is that NCFC need regular top league excursions to survive without mounting debt and the possibility of eventual L.1, extinction. 

What difference would be made to the evolvement of the PL if NCFC were to be forever in the hinterlands of the Football League. One day it will explode of its own doing in any case. Nothing is forever. I realise that the CIty fan's mentality is concreted in pauperism and that we always seem to have been up against it financially, even in our glory days of European football, but that state of mind shouldn't mean we happily accept second best. 

(2) We as a club become a laughingstock. As you say, "Who cares?" I will add "Who knows?)

(3) The Chumps is more fun. We can actually win games rather than be beaten every week. 

Half true (Manchester City?) Besides, the club gets greater exposure (worldwide) and is at least talked a\bout rather than being a lower league nonentity in a backwater.

Why is the Championship more fun in any case? The football is decent for sure, even though it has more than its fair share of drab talent free games, but it is still a million miles away from that of the PL which means some of the world's best teams and superstars grace the Carrow Road turf in front of our very eyes. I wouldn't mind seeing Haarland against us next season, even though he will likely pile up on his number of hat tricks at our expense. 

On top of this, the Championship and lower are gradually and steadily becoming ruled by the money as well and, with some exceptions such as Luton Town this season, the Chumps can be nearly as predictable as the Premier League. I'm not just talking about parachute payments here, either,  even little League One Ipswich's fans claim to have billions behind their club and already some of them are aspiring to ITFC being at the top table again. They are not the only well-financed L.1. club. 

The OP's point about the new American part ownership being more likely to invest more cash in a Premier League side than one languishing in mid-table Chumps mediocrity is very good and probably very true. Think about it.

Besides (repeat,) I, for one, wouldn't mind in the slightest if we retain our current status of being top of the Yo-Yo Club League forever more. 

 

All very true, but talking positively on here or at the pub won’t make it happen, only Wagner and the players can do that, unfortunately two consecutive spankings in the premier league hasn’t helped our players fragility and for me until we cut out that mentality in our squad by moving on players and building a new squad without this negative losing mentality. We have a massive lack of leaders in this squad, easy to see, McLean waving arms isn’t leadership, leadership is seeing and reading the game and reacting to it by talking to players, geeing up the fans and being an inspiration…..Odegaard at Arsenal shows just what a good leader can do, giving him the armband was genius! We need that on the field from our players, we don’t get that and a major factor we don’t win many from going behind recently.

[hogesar 10,762]

You can't blame him. He probably can't believe how awful our fans have been at Carrow Road and is still trying everything to try and get some vocal support for some players lacking in confidence.

[Indy 3,471]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You can't blame him. He probably can't believe how awful our fans have been at Carrow Road and is still trying everything to try and get some vocal support for some players lacking in confidence.

Bit harsh given the cost and what’s being dished up. The last few games the fans have been pretty good, can’t keep blaming fans who turn up regardless of poor football on the pitch, given how many empty seats there are at other clubs I’m a little disappointed how supporters turn ****e performances on the pitch to awful fans who probably pay far too much for 90 minutes given the current situation, especially when they will still be turning out long after theses under performing multimillion pound players have taken their chunk of money out the clubs coffers and moved on.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Indy

[hogesar 10,762]

53 minutes ago, Indy said:

Bit harsh given the cost and what’s being dished up. The last few games the fans have been pretty good, can’t keep blaming fans who turn up regardless of poor football on the pitch, given how many empty seats there are at other clubs I’m a little disappointed how supporters turn ****e performances on the pitch to awful fans who probably pay far too much for 90 minutes given the current situation, especially when they will still be turning out long after theses under performing multimillion pound players have taken their chunk of money out the clubs coffers and moved on.

We've had much poorer teams being given more vocal support than we have this season though. Perhaps it's entitlement.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

Those comments show he's a winner and a fighter.

Me, I feel it'd probably be best to have a year of transition, for Wagner to embed his style and oversee an (at least partial) overhaul of the squad. But that he wants it sooner shows he is not prepared to rest on the fallback of having that extra year. He did it at Huddersfield, and I bet he and the players are absolutely desperate to sneak into the playoffs and get up via the back door.

If he was talking about low expectations and transitions, I'd be doubting his suitability for the job. If we don't go up, I think most fans will accept that and look forward to seeing what his summer overhaul brings us. Just be thankful we're not still labouring to mid-table anonymity under Deano (although that in no way exonerates the board for having appointed him in the first place).

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Those comments show he's a winner and a fighter.

Me, I feel it'd probably be best to have a year of transition, for Wagner to embed his style and oversee an (at least partial) overhaul of the squad. But that he wants it sooner shows he is not prepared to rest on the fallback of having that extra year. He did it at Huddersfield, and I bet he and the players are absolutely desperate to sneak into the playoffs and get up via the back door.

If he was talking about low expectations and transitions, I'd be doubting his suitability for the job. If we don't go up, I think most fans will accept that and look forward to seeing what his summer overhaul brings us. Just be thankful we're not still labouring to mid-table anonymity under Deano (although that in no way exonerates the board for having appointed him in the first place).

This. He's saying "time to redouble our efforts".

[Nuff Said 5,960]

He’s just doing his job, trying to motivate the fans, and through them, the players.

He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t too. Remember the last manager who tried to set realistic expectations before games by praising the opposition? Not many fans of Chris Hughton’s approach as I recall.

[Mello Yello 2,572]

Get more drums....

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

All good stuff I suppose. Glad to hear promotion remains on the agenda now not next year. Some on here won't be though.

Hopefully this means a positive team selection and formation against Sheff Utd, not the shambles we saw at Stoke. It starts from the top David, own it and get us back to Wagnerball asap.

 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,797]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

All good stuff I suppose. Glad to hear promotion remains on the agenda now not next year. Some on here won't be though.

Hopefully this means a positive team selection and formation against Sheff Utd, not the shambles we saw at Stoke. It starts from the top David, own it and get us back to Wagnerball asap.

 

Idah and Sargent on the wings it is

Edited March 22, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Capt. Pants 5,008]

1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Idah and Sargent on the wings it is

Idah's injured, nonetheless he has a quandry whether it's Josh and Marquinhos or Tzolis and Max. Playing McCallum with Giannoulis further forward may me another option.

Onel is a huge loss at this stage unfortunately.

[hogesar 10,762]

40 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Those comments show he's a winner and a fighter.

Me, I feel it'd probably be best to have a year of transition, for Wagner to embed his style and oversee an (at least partial) overhaul of the squad. But that he wants it sooner shows he is not prepared to rest on the fallback of having that extra year. He did it at Huddersfield, and I bet he and the players are absolutely desperate to sneak into the playoffs and get up via the back door.

If he was talking about low expectations and transitions, I'd be doubting his suitability for the job. If we don't go up, I think most fans will accept that and look forward to seeing what his summer overhaul brings us. Just be thankful we're not still labouring to mid-table anonymity under Deano (although that in no way exonerates the board for having appointed him in the first place).

Whilst I agree with the premise of your post, this is a little harsh on Dean Smith. He was sacked with us 5th and 12 points off auto's. We're now 7th and 13 points off. IT could be argued we're labouring just as much to mid-table anonymity under Wagner as we were Smith. Certainly, imagine the fury on here had the recent results been with Smith in charge.

[Indy 3,471]

45 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We've had much poorer teams being given more vocal support than we have this season though. Perhaps it's entitlement.

We have indeed and I remember listening to chants of How **** must you ge were winning 1-0! I think people have selective memories when criticism of current fans when in reality it’s always down to the players to get a reaction. We have had far worse teams but they gave it full beans, you don’t get that impression with this team.

As I’ve pointed out no leaders on the pitch and the utterly lost nature of what to do when things aren’t working aren’t the fans fault!

[cambridgeshire canary 7,797]

21 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Idah's injured, nonetheless he has a quandry whether it's Josh and Marquinhos or Tzolis and Max. Playing McCallum with Giannoulis further forward may me another option.

Onel is a huge loss at this stage unfortunately.

Really does feel Onels loss has come at the worst time and just as he seemed at his best.

Even more so he's one of only a few players on our team who never seems to give up or hang his head and is always working hard. 

[Cowboy 240]

2 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Can’t help but feel he’s unwisely (and unnecessarily) setting himself up to fail? 

With our current squad issues around motivation, desire, inconsistencies, etc, the last thing I’d be doing is trying to build excitement and expectations. 

Most fans accept the need to change and transition. This sort of Rhetoric from Wagner  would be perfectly acceptable at the moment, IMO. 

"We ask whoever supports us, everyone around the club, to not speak any longer about how disappointing this season has been, or where they feel we should be. Who cares?"

That is a really stupid, desperate and unprofessional thing to say, and is as you say setting him up for a fall.

Smacks of saying "If you've given up, the players are going to give up."

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Whilst I agree with the premise of your post, this is a little harsh on Dean Smith. He was sacked with us 5th and 12 points off auto's. We're now 7th and 13 points off. IT could be argued we're labouring just as much to mid-table anonymity under Wagner as we were Smith. Certainly, imagine the fury on here had the recent results been with Smith in charge.

His record in his first 12 league games is 6-3-3, that 21 points translates to about 80 for a full season (playoff form). Smith's last 12 games we went 3-2-7, which translates to around 42 points (relegation form).

There have definitely been some teething problems, but he's still working with the players he's inherited (plus Marquinhos).

[lake district canary 4,830]

It's a chicken and egg situation - fans get inspired by the players doing well, the players get inspired by the fans being positive - the two things work together. If one of those things fails  - say the team start struggling and the fans get fed up and start moaning and groaning and all of a sudden you have a joint downward mentality - what was once an inspiring situation has suddenly become totally the opposite with team struggling and fans fed up. So if the team struggles, it is better if the fans stay positive and it helps the team get back their confidence.

It's difficult to do that because we all want things to be good on the pitch and can't help being fed up a bit when it's not happening, but there are no half measures imo - you either get behind the team or you get on their backs. But get too down on the team and before you know it, that negativity will become ingrained throughout the club and it will end up with it being is stuck on a downward trajectory. 

The players have to do the same - try and stay positive - and that is hard for them too, but if one part of the equation fails, it's up to the other half to react well. Players react well and the fans will be happier, if fans react well, it helps the players.

Chicken and egg.

Simples.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by lake district canary

[Indy 3,471]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

It's a chicken and egg situation - fans get inspired by the players doing well, the players get inspired by the fans being positive - the two things work together. If one of those things fails  - say the team start struggling and the fans get fed up and start moaning and groaning and all of a sudden you have a joint downward mentality - what was once an inspiring situation has suddenly become totally the opposite with team struggling and fans fed up. So if the team struggles, it is better if the fans stay positive and it helps the team get back their confidence.

It's difficult to do that because we all want things to be good on the pitch and can't help being fed up a bit when it's not happening, but there are no half measures imo - you either get behind the team or you get on their backs. But get too down on the team and before you know it, that negativity will become ingrained throughout the club and it will end up with it being is stuck on a downward trajectory. 

The players have to do the same - try and stay positive - and that is hard for them too, but if one part of the equation fails, it's up to the other half to react well. Players react well and the fans will be happier, if fans react well, it helps the players.

Chicken and egg.

Simples.

 

There’s a massive difference with reality talking on a forum or pub pre game and getting behind the team at the football.

I will add that five years ago when I hung up my season tickets those around me were more focused on their phones than getting behind the team, there was more passion for standing and pissing people around you off than shown for the team! Perhaps it’s also not just the on pitch performance but the fans themselves changed.

But to be critical of paying fans who’ve been going for donkeys years because a team of multi million pound players can’t be arsed to play the best they can for whatever the reason is a non starter for me, I’m sure if they were all on a basic wage with massive performance incentives we might get more out of some!

Edited March 22, 2023 by Indy

[hogesar 10,762]

2 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

His record in his first 12 league games is 6-3-3, that 21 points translates to about 80 for a full season (playoff form). Smith's last 12 games we went 3-2-7, which translates to around 42 points (relegation form).

There have definitely been some teething problems, but he's still working with the players he's inherited (plus Marquinhos).

Oh there's plenty of points on both sides you can throw. You can pick Smiths first 12 games or the middle 12 games. We don't know what Wagner's next 12 games are going to be.

This is by no means me not supporting Wagner. I like him and I've said before our better games under him have been more enjoyable than the better games under Smith. It's just, we could well end up in midtable mediocrity under Wagner this season so it seems premature to level that as a criticism towards Smith.

But the fans at Carrow Road haven't really helped either this season. I'm pleased Farke had the confidence to ignore the groans and continue the playing out from the back but this season it's been more vitriolic towards the players, certainly from where I am in Lower Barclay and if anyone thinks that helps then they need their heads checked.

 

[shefcanary 2,950]

@hogesar take your point about not getting on the backs of players, but I have to admit I often found myself having a go at people earlier in the season. But not at the CB's, GK and FB's, but the midfielders. My former scapegoat Kenny was one I regularly had a go at, and yes we have argued about this on here.

I haven't been quite as disparaging of him of late because under Wagner he has become more disciplined in "helping" out in that respect, but my god, was he crap at that under Smith when it was obvious (to me at least, and hopefully to most professional midfielders) what he should be doing - instead he kind of hid from the CB's. However now he does get more involved, it highlights weaknesses in the way we have been lining up.

The set up of Sarge and Pukki up top is the weak point now as once Kenny is playing the quarterback role, we are lacking additional midfielder to be on the move to  provide (or help shape) the out ball as they are engaged elsewhere, Kenny is not good enough to find the routes out that we need without this (be it taking the ball on himself, or playing quick one two's that allow him to move upfield. Skipp was able to do this, I'm not sure how Tettey managed it tbf but assume it was because we only had Pukki up top so an extra player in midfield to assist.

If I was to shout now it would be aimed at Wagner, because in effect until Stoke, we weren't fielding the personnel to help our defence to do this and thus why we abandoned it at the weekend. But I don't want us to totally sacrifice out attacking capability to just grind out results for the rest of this season.

Dilemma! I really do not want to start offloading on Wagner yet ...

[hogesar 10,762]

17 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

@hogesar take your point about not getting on the backs of players, but I have to admit I often found myself having a go at people earlier in the season. But not at the CB's, GK and FB's, but the midfielders. My former scapegoat Kenny was one I regularly had a go at, and yes we have argued about this on here.

I haven't been quite as disparaging of him of late because under Wagner he has become more disciplined in "helping" out in that respect, but my god, was he crap at that under Smith when it was obvious (to me at least, and hopefully to most professional midfielders) what he should be doing - instead he kind of hid from the CB's. However now he does get more involved, it highlights weaknesses in the way we have been lining up.

I agree with most of your post but (shock horror!) I don't agree re Mclean. If there's one thing I can say with some real evidence (having spoken to past players re this specifically) is that Kenny does exactly what the manager wants him too. Maybe to his own detriment as far as fans are concerned in what they see - but explains precisely why every manager who's had him plays him week in week out. 

So to regularly have a go at Kenny would be misplaced. If he's not doing the right thing it's more than likely a tactical decision from the manager. I note the Huddersfield game, (or Stoke, not 100%) where Wagner swapped Kenny and Sorensen roles for the second half and we were far, far worse for it.

[canarybubbles 2,199]

I just want to clarify that I was not advocating that we never criticise the players or manager or SD on here. First, as a couple of people have pointed out, what we say on here is unlikely to have any effect, good or bad, on the players or the team or the SD. Second, this is a forum for debate, so of course we should argue and debate.

But there's a load of difference between e.g. my saying that I think Sargent will never have the technical footballing skills or the quickness of thought to replace Pukki or critics of Tzolis saying that they doubt his mental resolve or his physical fitness, and having threads which ask who is our worst donkey or slagging off whoever is the scapegoat de jour.

Edited March 22, 2023 by canarybubbles

[lake district canary 4,830]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

But to be critical of paying fans who’ve been going for donkeys years because a team of multi million pound players can’t be arsed to play the best they can for whatever the reason is a non starter for me, I’m sure if they were all on a basic wage with massive performance incentives we might get more out of some!

That's a bit unfair on the players imo. Players are only human and can be affected by things that happen around them. Sure, one or two might be a bit lazy, but on the whole I think players are giving their all when they step on the pitch. When the team look collectively poor, then it easy to think they are not trying, but tension and anxiety can affect players, in the same way those things can affect any of us. 

If they had unconditional support, then they might do better, but when they only get that when things are good and get mediocre or worse support when things aren't so good, then they are likely to carry on struggling. 

They have to battle against that of course and that is where character comes into it - and we have lost a lot of good characters in the last couple of years....

 

.

[Indy 3,471]

22 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

That's a bit unfair on the players imo. Players are only human and can be affected by things that happen around them. Sure, one or two might be a bit lazy, but on the whole I think players are giving their all when they step on the pitch. When the team look collectively poor, then it easy to think they are not trying, but tension and anxiety can affect players, in the same way those things can affect any of us. 

If they had unconditional support, then they might do better, but when they only get that when things are good and get mediocre or worse support when things aren't so good, then they are likely to carry on struggling. 

They have to battle against that of course and that is where character comes into it - and we have lost a lot of good characters in the last couple of years....

 

.

Well if they can’t handle the things which are part of their profession then they can change jobs! This players being human argument is fine but they’re not forced to play football lots of work out there!

[shefcanary 2,950]

48 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I agree with most of your post but (shock horror!) I don't agree re Mclean. If there's one thing I can say with some real evidence (having spoken to past players re this specifically) is that Kenny does exactly what the manager wants him too. Maybe to his own detriment as far as fans are concerned in what they see - but explains precisely why every manager who's had him plays him week in week out. 

So to regularly have a go at Kenny would be misplaced. If he's not doing the right thing it's more than likely a tactical decision from the manager. I note the Huddersfield game, (or Stoke, not 100%) where Wagner swapped Kenny and Sorensen roles for the second half and we were far, far worse for it.

I cannot argue against the fact that four managers now have turned to McLean more often than others. What has stuck in my memory was several times the CB's were looking for an out ball and Kenny was seemingly ignoring the fact that he was best placed to give them that out ball. If you are telling me he was only under orders, then I'd have to firstly question the orders and secondly question Kenny's footballing brain and at least identifying there was an issue and asking the manager permission to change the play. We're back to my current bete noire in that the latter is symptomatic of there being no leaders in our team (or as Smith commented, a quiet bunch of players).    

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by shefcanary

[hogesar 10,762]

9 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I cannot argue against the fact that four managers now have turned to McLean more often than others. What has stuck in my memory was several times the CB's were looking for an out ball and Kenny was seemingly ignoring the fact that he was best placed to give them that out ball. If you are telling me he was only under orders, then I'd have to firstly question the orders and secondly question Kenny's footballing brain and at least identifying there was an issue and asking the manager permission to change the play. We're back to my current bete noire in that the latter is symptomatic of there being no leaders in our team (or as Smith commented, a quiet bunch of players).    

 

I couldn't comment on every in-game moment and say who is solely responsible to be honest, without then knowing the tactical instructions given in the background, and if ignoring them for the benefit of the in-game moment is something that the players do regularly or not.

We do have a quiet bunch of players. However, you'll be well aware that trying to organise our players is also met by sarcasm and ridicule. Mclean's pointing whilst shouting being a key part of it, even though Gibbs came out and said Kenny made it much easier for him to adjust to first team football and guide him in-game.