Kenny McLean

[nutty nigel 7,554]

Just now, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Extrordinary that you and others seem to want to exonerate him from any blame whatsover in what has largely been a weak department of the side all season

So it's still all Kenny, I expect he makes the others poor, the nameless others from that poor midfield.

Haters will hate, booers will boo. 

[Indy 3,307]

24 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Quite...given he's been consistenty over ran and bypassed in midfield all season playing as a ' no.8'....if he's now going to be our last line of defence in front if the back 4 playing as a 'no.6' ..its a worry

We simply must act if Hayden is a write off

We don’t need a replacement for Hayden, we have Sorensen who can comfortably do that job. I’d rather develop our own unless we can get a real quality loan.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,788]

5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So it's still all Kenny, I expect he makes the others poor, the nameless others from that poor midfield.

Haters will hate, booers will boo. 

Poor old Kenny....all of these other players making him look poor....whilst he's been 'magnificent' all season but hasnt been able to shine through it all amd impose his quality..just as a 2 times championship winner obviously would do.

Its almost as if he cant perform unless he's a got someone like Oliver Skipp next to him

Edited January 14, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[hogesar 9,704]

4 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Poor old Kenny....all of these other players making him look poor....whilst he's been 'magnificent' all season but hasnt been able to shine through it all amd impose his quality..just as a 2 times championship winner obviously would do.

Its almost as if he cant perform unless he's a got someone like Oliver Skipp next to him

This is really, really desperate. 

[nutty nigel 7,554]

8 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Poor old Kenny....all of these other players making him look poor....whilst he's been 'magnificent' all season but hasnt been able to shine through it all amd impose his quality..just as a 2 times championship winner obviously would do.

Its almost as if he cant perform unless he's a got someone like Oliver Skipp next to him

No it's you that said all the others were poor. Those nameless others. Unless they're also called Kenny.

[Petriix 2,847]

17 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

Can I ask, what was the formation today? And I’m not being sarcastic 😊

It was ostensibly a 4-2-3-1 but it was highly dynamic in possession, often morphing into a narrow 4-4-2. At times it was more of a 3-5-2 with McLean dropping into defence and the fullbacks playing very high.

The main thing is that there were 4 attacking players with Onel on the left, Dowell mainly on the right and both Pukki and Sargent central. Sargent played the number 10 role behind Pukki, but they interchanged a fair bit and were generally pretty narrow with the fullbacks providing the width. 

Kenny played the deeper of two in central midfield but tended to drift right, mainly because Aarons bombed forwards so that's where the cover was needed. Sara was a little more advanced but they formed a decent partnership.

Out of possession it was a fairly typical 4-2-3-1 but the emphasis was on pressing and tracking back with speed against the counter rather than sitting behind the ball. Plenty of tactical fouls too.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,788]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

No it's you that said all the others were poor. Those nameless others. Unless they're also called Kenny.

I said our midfield dept has been poor in the main all season...but that there has been mitigating circumstamces for some others.

There are none for Kenny...he's been a constant in a poor midfield, yet some seem to want to give him a free pass. he's not as effective at the level of top 2 or even 6 ,chasing team's midfield any longer as he once was.

In order for us to have been cgallenging at top end, he needed improving upon .

[nutty nigel 7,554]

2 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I said our midfield dept has been poor in the main all season...but that there has been mitigating circumstamces for some others.

There are none for Kenny...he's been a constant in a poor midfield, yet some seem to want to give him a free pass. he's not as effective at the level of top 2 or even 6 ,chasing team's midfield any longer as he once was.

In order for us to have been cgallenging at top end, he needed improving upon .

Still no names bar Kenny.

What mitigating circumstances for some of the nameless others? And what of the other nameless ones?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,788]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

Still no names bar Kenny.

What mitigating circumstances for some of the nameless others? And what of the other nameless ones?

Have previously named on this thread

[nutty nigel 7,554]

1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Have previously named on this thread

Tell us about them again. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I said our midfield dept has been poor in the main all season...but that there has been mitigating circumstamces for some others.

There are none for Kenny...he's been a constant in a poor midfield, yet some seem to want to give him a free pass. he's not as effective at the level of top 2 or even 6 ,chasing team's midfield any longer as he once was.

In order for us to have been cgallenging at top end, he needed improving upon .

Kenny has been full back so he has hardly been a constant in midfield. Just cut him some slack. Nunez has been dire and Sara patchy and Todd missing, Hayden on the treatment table and Sinani not worth a start.

No wonder the midfield have been poor. Kenny is the only one playing.

[Petriix 2,847]

2 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I said our midfield dept has been poor in the main all season...but that there has been mitigating circumstamces for some others.

There are none for Kenny...he's been a constant in a poor midfield, yet some seem to want to give him a free pass. he's not as effective at the level of top 2 or even 6 ,chasing team's midfield any longer as he once was.

In order for us to have been cgallenging at top end, he needed improving upon .

Do you not think that Kenny (and the midfield as a whole) might have been a little exposed in Smith's midfield system because the wide attackers were so high and wide in the 4-3-3?

It's incredibly ignorant to blame the player who gets overloaded while ignoring the underlying issues that lead to the errors. It was obvious to me that Kenny was being asked to perform an impossible role by Smith. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,788]

7 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Tell us about them again. 

Why?..previously mentioned on this thread...despite your suggestion (twice now) that I havent named them

Edited January 14, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,788]

1 minute ago, Petriix said:

Do you not think that Kenny (and the midfield as a whole) might have been a little exposed in Smith's midfield system because the wide attackers were so high and wide in the 4-3-3?

It's incredibly ignorant to blame the player who gets overloaded while ignoring the underlying issues that lead to the errors. It was obvious to me that Kenny was being asked to perform an impossible role by Smith. 

My fear is that we still wont have the personnel in midfield to combat that if we dont act to once once and for all fill that DM role for the secind half of the season

I dont think fudging it wigt McLean Gibbs or Sorenson will ultimately be good enough

[Fen Canary 848]

20 minutes ago, Petriix said:

It was ostensibly a 4-2-3-1 but it was highly dynamic in possession, often morphing into a narrow 4-4-2. At times it was more of a 3-5-2 with McLean dropping into defence and the fullbacks playing very high.

The main thing is that there were 4 attacking players with Onel on the left, Dowell mainly on the right and both Pukki and Sargent central. Sargent played the number 10 role behind Pukki, but they interchanged a fair bit and were generally pretty narrow with the fullbacks providing the width. 

Kenny played the deeper of two in central midfield but tended to drift right, mainly because Aarons bombed forwards so that's where the cover was needed. Sara was a little more advanced but they formed a decent partnership.

Out of possession it was a fairly typical 4-2-3-1 but the emphasis was on pressing and tracking back with speed against the counter rather than sitting behind the ball. Plenty of tactical fouls too.

I think you’re overthinking it to be honest. To me it looked a fairly old fashioned 4-4-2, with Sargent playing just off Pukki, McLean hanging back and Dowell pushing on in the middle.

All formations are fairly fluid once the game starts, there’ll be times Dowell has to defend or McLean join the attack but to me that looked how we were set up 

[nutty nigel 7,554]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Maybe not specifically but our midfield has been generally poor and easy to play against all season...and he's been a fixture. Sara and Nunez may have the alibi of finding their feet, Hayden bring injured and Gibbs a youngster...McLean in the main has been off the pace this season.

He may have looked ok in a deeper role but I dont see us getting away with that against better sides.

With Hayden looking as though he may not play again this season I pray we dont think we dont need to do something in that area before Jan 31st

 

Oh I get it now. Just excuses for others and a false claim that in the main Kenny's been off the pace all season. 

Perhaps it's just me then.

Do others think this?

[Nuff Said 5,147]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

Until Wagner came in he had more chance of winning the Billy Butlins trophy!

So he was sh1t until last week? But strangely consistently picked by every manager he’s had here. Weird.

[PurpleCanary 5,570]

Talking about slagged-off (including in this case by myself…) players, am I alone in thinking Hernandez didn’t always take exactly the wrong option today?

[Nuff Said 5,147]

48 minutes ago, Indy said:

We don’t need a replacement for Hayden, we have Sorensen who can comfortably do that job. I’d rather develop our own unless we can get a real quality loan.

When Sorensen finally got a run of a few games in his “natural” position, he was pretty disappointing, and in no way comfortably as good as Hayden, even in his post-injury state.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,788]

If there was an excuse for McLean I'd have offered one...but there isnt one, he's just generally been bad in a disfunctioning midfield

Unless if course you disagree and think he's been good all season and has simply just been hampered by all of those around him and not been in anyway at fault

 

[Mason 47 1,388]

I've never been a Kenny hater, but even the most die hard McLean-ite can't honestly say he normally plays as well as he has the past two games. Different gravy.

I always thought his tendency to race after the ball made it tricky for him defensively, but whatever Wagner has told him to do seems to suit him ever so well.

I would add, however, that although he was the more defensive midfielder, that shouldn't be confused with being THE defensive midfielder. He was playing much more like a deep-lying playmaker than a defender; I think the team was a much more convincing defensive unit as a whole, which contributes massively to looking more solid. As Wagner said last week, a lot of his early work has been on ball progression and shape (and it shows)

 

[nutty nigel 7,554]

1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

If there was an excuse for McLean I'd have offered one...but there isnt one, he's just generally been bad in a disfunctioning midfield

Unless if course you disagree and think he's been good all season and has simply just been hampered by all of those around him and not been in anyway at fault

 

Well he certainly hasn't been off the pace all season.

[Capt. Pants 4,260]

McLean has been one of our better players this season and has shamed other players in the team. But Wagner wants even more out of him and Kenny has responded magnificently.

All the players seem to be thriving under Wagner. Smith if  anything was holding Kenny back with his God awful negative tactics.

[Ian 1,131]

10 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Talking about slagged-off (including in this case by myself…) players, am I alone in thinking Hernandez didn’t always take exactly the wrong option today?

Was just thinking that myself. He looked very useful indeed today.

[KiwiScot 1,457]

Kenny says. Starts constantly. Paid thousands. Scape(is) goat(the) barrell and had every loser talking about him.

Or-gas-m.

THE MAJOR

Edited January 14, 2023 by KiwiScot

[hogesar 9,704]

27 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Talking about slagged-off (including in this case by myself…) players, am I alone in thinking Hernandez didn’t always take exactly the wrong option today?

Purple, you would be spot on.

And I think there are a couple of reasons for it.

One, he has clearly been coached / instructed not to try and beat the guy in front of him on every single occasion. Try and pick your moments.

Two, we were much better at getting players closer to Onel to offer the short pass option. Of course, having our fullbacks / wingbacks far more offensive and higher up the pitch creates one option, but after Onel beat a player you would have the likes of Dowell, Sargent or Pukki offering an inside pass where they'd often be in a bit of space because of Onel just skinning the defender in front of him.

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy has always classed Onel as a weapon of sorts but if he can be coached a bit more he could also be tactically astute enough to not also be a negative risk factor to the balance or structure of the side.

[Indy 3,307]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

So he was sh1t until last week? But strangely consistently picked by every manager he’s had here. Weird.

No sense of humour, even after a good win….really!

[Indy 3,307]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

When Sorensen finally got a run of a few games in his “natural” position, he was pretty disappointing, and in no way comfortably as good as Hayden, even in his post-injury state.

If you say so!

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,221]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

Purple, you would be spot on.

And I think there are a couple of reasons for it.

One, he has clearly been coached / instructed not to try and beat the guy in front of him on every single occasion. Try and pick your moments.

Two, we were much better at getting players closer to Onel to offer the short pass option. Of course, having our fullbacks / wingbacks far more offensive and higher up the pitch creates one option, but after Onel beat a player you would have the likes of Dowell, Sargent or Pukki offering an inside pass where they'd often be in a bit of space because of Onel just skinning the defender in front of him.

@Parma Ham's gone mouldy has always classed Onel as a weapon of sorts but if he can be coached a bit more he could also be tactically astute enough to not also be a negative risk factor to the balance or structure of the side.

Early days @hogesar @PurpleCanary, though what we may be seeing is Onel recognised as one of our limited weaponish things and finding a way to hurt the opposition with it, without his weaknesses negating the good bits.

However rather than ‘coaching him better' I think we might be seeing a more pragmatic solution to his overriding tendency to show lack of awareness and play with his head down, by simply getting him driving inside and getting other players closer to him. 

The high intensity counter press relies on shorter distances in the higher third anyway, so this is a nice further benefit to this. 

I would also suggest that this is where Dowell adds value. In effect you are ‘trading off' the weaknesses of each to create a strength.

 It might almost be a ‘second ball' tactic, as seen with the first goal. Onel isn’t super clever with his action, though it works out by ‘getting around him’ and other players looking to ‘pick up his pieces’. 

To give credit to Wagner, I would certainly suggest that this is a tactic that recognises the level we are playing at now. The Prem-lite approach always looked flawed to me.

Jump the hurdle in front of you. 

Interesting to watch.

Parma 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Petriix 2,847]

8 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I think you’re overthinking it to be honest. To me it looked a fairly old fashioned 4-4-2, with Sargent playing just off Pukki, McLean hanging back and Dowell pushing on in the middle.

All formations are fairly fluid once the game starts, there’ll be times Dowell has to defend or McLean join the attack but to me that looked how we were set up 

Probably true. Ok, how about 4-4-1-1? That's basically a hybrid between 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 depending on how high your wide midfielders play and how deep your number 10 drops.