Yellow Bridie - here's a stat for you dean

[NeymarSmith 133]

Since 5th Sept. There has been more UK pms then there has been home wins at CR.

 

That has to end the DS argument that he is any good.

Also confirms what a joke the govt is but that's another story on another thread, on a different message board! 😉

[Nexus_Canary 1,028]

[Google Bot 3,337]

22 minutes ago, NeymarSmith said:

Since 5th Sept. There has been more UK pms then there has been home wins at CR.

Ouch! 

There's also been equal number of british monarchs.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

1 hour ago, NeymarSmith said:

Since 5th Sept. There has been more UK pms then there has been home wins at CR.

 

That has to end the DS argument that he is any good.

Also confirms what a joke the govt is but that's another story on another thread, on a different message board! 😉

Smith had already showed he could get results before that, but the fans in the ground sucked the life and belief out of the players when they wouldn't muster up much encouragement on the way to the top of the league on the grounds of the football 'not being eye-pleasing'. The squad made the effort to try and get fans behind what they were doing and fans wouldn't have it.

A manager is not there to give the squad belief, they're there to give the squad direction; it's the job of the fans in the grounds to give them belief, and they weren't doing it.

And I would also add that it has been a revelation on this board the two games we've had no manager, with the number of insightful comments actually talking about player performance and how they're doing instead of what people think the manager should be doing, what Webber should be doing, and why they're all clueless clowns who should be sacked for not falling in line with your own personal opinions. Why isn't it more like this the rest of the time?

Moving on, don't be prepared to 'give the new manager a chance', respect that he has the job to do to get us the best result for the end of the season and fans have a job to do to give the players the boost to give their best. If the fans in the ground do that unconditionally, then everyone will have every right to pick holes at the end of the season and demand change at a point where there's time and space to make proper changes, choose people without a rush, and properly plan for the future instead of making last minute changes to appease discontented consumers.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Ulfotto 644]

It is an interesting debate I do wonder sometimes would Farke have got us promoted the second time around with fans in the stadium. 
 

There were some really painful games early in that season with a lot of one nil wins. Derby being a real low point.

[Mason 47 1,403]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

A manager is not there to give the squad belief, they're there to give the squad direction; it's the fans' job to give them belief, and they weren't doing it.

At the risk of being caught in a reaction  bubble, you can't honestly believe this is true?

The fans play a part, for sure, but a manager absolutely has to instill belief in his players from the off or you'll be on a hiding to nothing.

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

I read the title and thought "yellow minced steak slice?? - I know there's been the odd complaint about the catering but farking hell!"

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Smith had already showed he could get results before that, but the fans in the ground sucked the life and belief out of the players when they wouldn't muster up much encouragement on the way to the top of the league on the grounds of the football 'not being eye-pleasing'. The squad made the effort to try and get fans behind what they were doing and fans wouldn't have it.

A manager is not there to give the squad belief, they're there to give the squad direction; it's the fans' job to give them belief, and they weren't doing it.

And I would also add that it has been a revelation on this board the two games we've had no manager, with the number of insightful comments actually talking about player performance and how they're doing instead of what people think the manager should be doing, what Webber should be doing, and why they're all clueless clowns who should be sacked for not falling in line with your own personal opinions. Why isn't it more like this the rest of the time?

Moving on, don't be prepared to 'give the new manager a chance', respect that he has the job to do to get us the best result for the end of the season and fans have a job to do to give the players the boost to give their best. If the fans in the ground do that unconditionally, then everyone will have every right to pick holes at the end of the season and demand change at a point where there's time and space to make proper changes, choose people without a rush, and properly plan for the future instead of making last minute changes to appease discontented consumers.

 

One thing you haven't mentioned is emotion. That is why sometimes mouth (or fingers) engages before brain. And I don't particularly blame people for their reactions. To each their own.

Obviously trying to convince somebody of your feelings may be achieved easier with restraint.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

4 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

At the risk of being caught in a reaction  bubble, you can't honestly believe this is true?

The fans play a part, for sure, but a manager absolutely has to instill belief in his players from the off or you'll be on a hiding to nothing.

Yes I think it's true. Why do you think the stated belief of one guy paid to tell them they can do it means more to them than the atmosphere created during the game by the thousands of supporters who came to watch them and contribute to paying their wages?

Edited January 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,062]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Yes I think it's true. Why do you think the stated belief of one guy paid to tell them they can do it means more to them than the atmosphere created by the thousands of supporters who came to watch them and contribute to paying their wages?

You're on a wind up.

That one guy paid to tell them what they can do has their careers and potential future in his hands. Joe Bloggs in the stands has a Pukka Pie in his. Even if there are 20,000 Joe Bloggs, none of them individually or collectively has the ability to influence the players career in the way their manager does. Jordan Henderson gets pelters from England fans, but Southgate loves him and plays him regularly. Would he swap that position for the one Paul McVeigh was in towards the end of Worthy's reign? When the 20,000 Joe Bloggs loved him and chanted his name as he warmed up in the corner but because the stated belief of one guy paid to tell him what he can do was that he shouldn't get much time on the pitch?

Ridiculous.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

One thing you haven't mentioned is emotion. That is why sometimes mouth (or fingers) engages before brain. And I don't particularly blame people for their reactions. To each their own.

Obviously trying to convince somebody of your feelings may be achieved easier with restraint.

Yes, and I'm guilty of that as well on occasion. I also find it depressing when we lose, which is why I try to point out any reasons I can see to have patience and be supportive to the people in a position to make a difference at the ground, partly to cheer myself up as much as try to cheer other people up (and consistently fail). And then I get frustrated when every positive is countered by negatives that I'm already fully aware of.

 

 

[wcorkcanary 4,353]

10 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

One thing you haven't mentioned is emotion. That is why sometimes mouth (or fingers) engages before brain. And I don't particularly blame people for their reactions. To each their own.

Obviously trying to convince somebody of your feelings may be achieved easier with restraint.

And if that doesnt work, a smack in the kisser can be effective.  

[sonyc 5,541]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Norwich_City_F.C._managers

 

Within this link is the list of all our managers with a table of games managed and win percentage. 

You can take the stats as you like but they "are what they are" to quote some people. Of course there is context. But as all those football history books will simply show a 0-1 loss was a 0-1 loss without all the comments about how unlucky we were etc.

Smith, I'm afraid doesn't really stand up too well in the scheme of things.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

12 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

You're on a wind up.

That one guy paid to tell them what they can do has their careers and potential future in his hands. Joe Bloggs in the stands has a Pukka Pie in his. Even if there are 20,000 Joe Bloggs, none of them individually or collectively has the ability to influence the players career in the way their manager does. Jordan Henderson gets pelters from England fans, but Southgate loves him and plays him regularly. Would he swap that position for the one Paul McVeigh was in towards the end of Worthy's reign? When the 20,000 Joe Bloggs loved him and chanted his name as he warmed up in the corner but because the stated belief of one guy paid to tell him what he can do was that he shouldn't get much time on the pitch?

Ridiculous.

The manager doesn't have much power over players to influence their career. Players who fall out with managers can damage a manager's career as much as their own. The players are often multi-million pound assets for the club in transfer fees, compared to a manager who is simply there on a salary.

Talented players who show they're talented regularly rise up the totem pole regardless of the success or failure of the team they're in. That attitude might be fair enough in terms of encouraging school kids to take more of an interest, but the manager's a highly paid professional guiding highly paid professionals in competitive sport. If the players don't have that level of belief in their ability then they shouldn't be professional footballers in the first place.

But the emotion of a crowd in a game is raw energy that plays a part in the game itself, and encouraging or discouraging the opposition as much as the home team, that goes way beyond anything a manager can do or say.

Edited January 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

9 minutes ago, sonyc said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Norwich_City_F.C._managers

 

Within this link is the list of all our managers with a table of games managed and win percentage. 

You can take the stats as you like but they "are what they are" to quote some people. Of course there is context. But as all those football history books will simply show a 0-1 loss was a 0-1 loss without all the comments about how unlucky we were etc.

Smith, I'm afraid doesn't really stand up too well in the scheme of things.

He did stand up when we were top of the league with nine games unbeaten. But at that stage the negativity about how easy on the eye it was was counted as being more important the results on the page.

My comments about Smith aren't really about Smith personally; they're about how we went from getting good results with a motivated squad to poor results with a clearly less motivated squad as the season progressed. There's no reason to believe anything about Smith's approach changed in that time, so you have to look for other influences on the players, and the fans are a massive influence.

Edited January 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[wcorkcanary 4,353]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The manager doesn't have much power over players to influence their career. Players who fall out with managers can damage a manager's career as much as their own.

Talented players who show they're talented regularly rise up the totem pole regardless of the success or failure of the team they're in. That attitude might be fair enough in terms of encouraging school kids to take more of an interest, but the manager's a highly paid professional guiding highly paid professionals in competitive sport. If the players don't have that level of belief in their ability then they shouldn't be professional footballers in the first place.

But the emotion of a crowd in a game is raw energy that plays a part in the game itself that goes way beyond anything a manager can do or say.

This is a wonderfully constructed fantasy , well done. 

In episode 2 the Titanic makes it safely  across the atlantic. 

Episode 3 ..and end to hunger, war and strife of all kinds 

[hogesar 9,776]

Our performances and results ultimately weren't good enough over the past 15 games or so. I agree the atmosphere has been poor this season but the fans hadn't turned until the last couple. 

The only thing I find interesting is SOME of the people who were desperately claiming all season that Smith was significantly underperforming with this squad are now, post his dismissal, claiming our squad is midtable quality only.

[Helsinki canary 244]

29 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

It is an interesting debate I do wonder sometimes would Farke have got us promoted the second time around with fans in the stadium. 
 

There were some really painful games early in that season with a lot of one nil wins. Derby being a real low point.

Yes he would because we had Emi and skipp in the team

[wcorkcanary 4,353]

Just now, hogesar said:

Our performances and results ultimately weren't good enough over the past 15 games or so. I agree the atmosphere has been poor this season but the fans hadn't turned until the last couple. 

The only thing I find interesting is SOME of the people who were desperately claiming all season that Smith was significantly underperforming with this squad are now, post his dismissal, claiming our squad is midtable quality only.

I think thats known as " making sure you're on the winning team".... see any of Cambridgeos posts lately for  examples.  Often  tempered with the  obligatory " hope im wrong".

[Nexus_Canary 1,028]

Littleyellowturdie do you even understand football?

Some of the stuff your posting on here is just utter bollokcs.

I do admire the fact you continue banging your head against the concrete though with the total sum of 0 people ever agreeing with you. It must be exhausting.

 

[sonyc 5,541]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

He did stand up when we were top of the league with nine games unbeaten. But at that stage the negativity about how easy on the eye it was was counted as being more important the results on the page.

I was happily behind Smith in that period (and after) but the football became far more aimless, somehow lacking a passion or energy. Quite difficult to put your finger on it. I felt for Smith because I believe he really wanted to turn it round. And the players were giving effort. There was something missing though and I began to see what people who attended the home matches were saying. I went to some northern away matches. The Burnley one showed me where we were. Nowhere near a promotion team (and I've watched a lot of matches like we all have). The crowd hadn't turned then but folk were unimpressed.

Smith himself didn't help. The club has felt more remote. Those things don't help.

I know this post won't change your strongly held opinion about negativity but at least you might consider that for Norwich fans we all want a bit of passion in our players, a bit of fight. We want that from a manager too. He is the figure that a club (the playing side) revolves around. Smith just was unable to embody what I might call the Norwich way. I realise that's sounds old fashioned but there it is. I'm really hoping Wagner (if it's indeed him) can do that. That he gives these players more belief and that he seems to really want to be part of our history. Not that Smith didn't (before you come back at me) but more than Smith seemed to do.

As KG says above, football IS all about our emotions. Sums it up well enough for me.

[wcorkcanary 4,353]

Just now, Nexus_Canary said:

Littleyellowturdie do you even understand football?

Some of the stuff your posting on here is just utter bollokcs.

I do admire the fact you continue banging your head against the concrete though with the total sum of 0 people ever agreeing with you. It must be exhausting.

 

As pointed out before ..." the pied wagtail hops from car wing mirror to car wing mirror, attacking imaginary invaders until he eventually collapses through exhaustion  and a bruised beak"

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

32 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

It is an interesting debate I do wonder sometimes would Farke have got us promoted the second time around with fans in the stadium. 
 

There were some really painful games early in that season with a lot of one nil wins. Derby being a real low point.

Nailed it. It's hard to say categorically, but I don't think there's any doubt that the negativity and anger among fans at the utterly abysmal performance in Project restart would have been huge and would have affected the players, just as anger from relegation affected attitudes to Smith this season which spilt over into mood at the ground and those two losses in a row in the first four games would quite possibly have been a killer.

 

 

[LaUnionCanary 86]

25 minutes ago, sonyc said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Norwich_City_F.C._managers

 

Within this link is the list of all our managers with a table of games managed and win percentage. 

You can take the stats as you like but they "are what they are" to quote some people. Of course there is context. But as all those football history books will simply show a 0-1 loss was a 0-1 loss without all the comments about how unlucky we were etc.

Smith, I'm afraid doesn't really stand up too well in the scheme of things.

Looking at that list there is a strange fact in the 1950's when we apparently had no manager from April '55 until April '57.

 

And I remember Jimmy Jewell being a radio comedian not a football manager,

Edited January 5, 2023 by LaUnionCanary
additiion

[Nexus_Canary 1,028]

43 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

It is an interesting debate I do wonder sometimes would Farke have got us promoted the second time around with fans in the stadium. 
 

There were some really painful games early in that season with a lot of one nil wins. Derby being a real low point.

Lol what a crock of sh1t.

Farke had credit in the bank and we knew what he was up to. 

Can I also point out that the fans had not turned to the degree that they had against Smith when Farke was shock fired following the win that would have galvanised the rest of the season!!!!

Smith was a rebound who didn't keep us up, he failed and had zero credit.

He should have been given a 12 month rolling contract and been told to sling his hook in may or whenever we were mathematically down.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Nexus_Canary

[wcorkcanary 4,353]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Nailed it. It's hard to say categorically, but I don't think there's any doubt that the negativity and anger among fans at the utterly abysmal performance in Project restart would have been huge and would have affected the players, just as anger from relegation affected attitudes to Smith this season which spilt over into mood at the ground and those two losses in a row in the first four games would quite possibly have been a killer.

 

 

But if the crowd  had unequivocally got behind the team, then surely success was guaranteed , no ? I was sure thats how it worked.

[sonyc 5,541]

3 minutes ago, LaUnionCanary said:

Looking at that list there is a strange fact in the 1950's when we apparently had no manager from April '55 until April '57.

 

And I remember Jimmy Jewell being a radio comedian not a football manager,

Poor old Tom Parker missed off!

https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=1855&teamTabs=managers

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

4 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

But if the crowd  had unequivocally got behind the team, then surely success was guaranteed , no ? I was sure thats how it worked.

Well, sure, but they wouldn't have done; Covid saved Farke from that and probably bought him another one and a quarter years. Then it was about manager instilling confidence, because there weren't fans around for either team.

Edited January 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,605]

6 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Lol what a crock of sh1t.

Farke had credit in the bank and we knew what he was up to. 

Can I also point out that the fans had not turned to the degree that they had against Smith when Farke was shock fired following the win that would have galvanised the rest of the season!!!!

Smith was a rebound who didn't keep us up, he failed and had zero credit.

He should have been given a 12 month rolling contract and been told to sling his hook in may or whenever we were mathematically down.

He didn't have credit in the bank after the first relegation with 10 losses in a row in project restart. Back then his record was a championship mid-table, a promotion, and the most abysmal relegation in the club's history from the top tier.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,042]

17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Our performances and results ultimately weren't good enough over the past 15 games or so. I agree the atmosphere has been poor this season but the fans hadn't turned until the last couple. 

The only thing I find interesting is SOME of the people who were desperately claiming all season that Smith was significantly underperforming with this squad are now, post his dismissal, claiming our squad is midtable quality only.

I am glad that you posted this as it sums up how I feel in respect of the home crowd. I do not buy into the narrative from the few that suggest the home crowd were always on Dean Smiths back, my personal view is that the atmosphere at CR gradually got worse as the poor performances mounted up.................