State of the dis-union!

[ged in the onion bag 857]

Why we need to take our time on a replacement!  
Smith is gone, the club stating it’s in the best interests of the club to appoint a new head coach geared towards repairing relationships on and off the pitch and ‘pushing for promotion’ back to the Premier League. 

Well, this is where the problem manifests sadly….  striving for an immediate EPL return will only cause further managerial problems and fan frustrations, since that objective isn’t feasible at all….   In all fairness to Smith, whilst he made a pigs ear of the role, he didn’t really have a chance of achieving the objectives…..
The club want promotion and the players aren’t good enough. The fans want quality entertaining football and the players aren’t good enough.    That’s the fact!  

We neither have the players or anywhere near the depth of quality in the squad.   Whilst we could conceivably get promoted this season, what’s the point!    This squad is nowhere near of the required quality either individually or collectively, and as we all know, there is no clear pattern of play or belief ingrained in the group.    Plainly, we don’t have the personnel in midfield to play from the back and to control football matches.   

The £200m hasn’t aided development in either of our previous promotions, which have just put us on a gravy train from which we’ve been desperately hanging on to it’s coupling chain!  Finally, we are losing grip!

Can anyone honestly see a scenario where a promotion will resolve our problems?     Is there a Pep Guardiola out there that could transform this in months….. The team needs power, pace, athleticism, a degree of quality and belief.   On our budgets, those traits in players needs to arrive from scouting principals.     Who of our long-established players is either capable or would relish another go in our circumstances, McLean, Pukki, Hanley, Aaron’s?    That’s our experience, hardly inspiring is it?  

Major problems that £200m can’t possibly resolve…….  
    •    We’ve still not addressed the vital CDM role and we need 3 of them, certainly Isaac Hayden isn’t the answer!
    •    Very few EPL level players, Gunn, Krul, Aarons, Omo, Pukki (and he may be gone next week)!
    •    One capable centre half, Omobamidele!
    •    Zero capable midfielders…. 
    •    Zero capable left-backs
    •    Zero capable wingers

We can’t even rely that the club will spend any money well, it’s asking far too much and surely the football world will call us out as a total embarrassment if we go up again and don’t compete!   Personally, I can cope with the embarrassment but not the lack of competitiveness!    That hurts too much.

IMO, we (and most importantly the club), have to accept that our team, squad and club aren’t ready for a promotion (there’s no point) and get back to developing a new and better equipped team.   Ie, start again where Farke started, engage a manager with a clear philosophy, use our past experiences and mistakes to inform better choices and show patience again.    The reason the last experiment failed with Farke, was (in my opinion), that we were promoted a season too soon when the team didn’t have sufficient experience or depth to cope and we didn’t get some old heads in to help.    

That reset, that patient approach needs buy in from the fans so the club need to acknowledge their complete balls-up this last year or so and get back to something that’s sustainable, has integrity, is clear to us all and is progressive!     I can back that but the idea of another promotion with this lot just sends shivers!      

Let’s face it, the clubs infrastructure and finances are in a better position than they were four years ago, so there is no reason why we cannot sustain the club without a promotion.

We are losing some players whose contracts end soon anyway, and a club relying on developing players shouldn’t be loaning them in the championship, that’s one lesson that should’ve been learned already.   Send them back.

On the other hand, we do have quite a few young and promising players that need the opportunity and experience, but would also offer much-needed energy which the team currently lacks.

Take stock, set out another plan to be in the top 22 and then choose a manager!
 

[Nuff Said 5,176]

It’s like deja vu all over again.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

It’s like deja vu all over again.

Why not eh, was a great journey while it lasted!  😃

[Robert N. LiM 4,481]

18 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

The reason the last experiment failed with Farke, was (in my opinion), that we were promoted a season too soon when the team didn’t have sufficient experience or depth to cope and we didn’t get some old heads in to help.  

First one was a season too soon; second one was a season too late. 

Enjoyed your post: lot of wisdom there

[Wibble 109]

So true, i think we need to actually get a squad together before even thinking about EPL. We need a squad that with 2 or 3 EPL capable players, we can at least not be embarrassed. Sadly we had a Prem striker in Pukki, bit im afraid that time may have come and gone. Our midfield, wingers and CB our just not good enough, I hoping for some shrewd selling and buying and go again next season with a much lighter and brighter philosophy and feel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Wibble

[Wibble 109]

I have no idea why this site puts so much blank space ???? On android

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

2 minutes ago, Wibble said:

I have no idea why this site puts so much blank space ???? On android

TLDR 😃

[littleyellowbirdie 2,592]

30 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Why we need to take our time on a replacement!  
Smith is gone, the club stating it’s in the best interests of the club to appoint a new head coach geared towards repairing relationships on and off the pitch and ‘pushing for promotion’ back to the Premier League. 

Well, this is where the problem manifests sadly….  striving for an immediate EPL return will only cause further managerial problems and fan frustrations, since that objective isn’t feasible at all….   In all fairness to Smith, whilst he made a pigs ear of the role, he didn’t really have a chance of achieving the objectives…..
The club want promotion and the players aren’t good enough. The fans want quality entertaining football and the players aren’t good enough.    That’s the fact!  

We neither have the players or anywhere near the depth of quality in the squad.   Whilst we could conceivably get promoted this season, what’s the point!    This squad is nowhere near of the required quality either individually or collectively, and as we all know, there is no clear pattern of play or belief ingrained in the group.    Plainly, we don’t have the personnel in midfield to play from the back and to control football matches.   

The £200m hasn’t aided development in either of our previous promotions, which have just put us on a gravy train from which we’ve been desperately hanging on to it’s coupling chain!  Finally, we are losing grip!

Can anyone honestly see a scenario where a promotion will resolve our problems?     Is there a Pep Guardiola out there that could transform this in months….. The team needs power, pace, athleticism, a degree of quality and belief.   On our budgets, those traits in players needs to arrive from scouting principals.     Who of our long-established players is either capable or would relish another go in our circumstances, McLean, Pukki, Hanley, Aaron’s?    That’s our experience, hardly inspiring is it?  

Major problems that £200m can’t possibly resolve…….  
    •    We’ve still not addressed the vital CDM role and we need 3 of them, certainly Isaac Hayden isn’t the answer!
    •    Very few EPL level players, Gunn, Krul, Aarons, Omo, Pukki (and he may be gone next week)!
    •    One capable centre half, Omobamidele!
    •    Zero capable midfielders…. 
    •    Zero capable left-backs
    •    Zero capable wingers

We can’t even rely that the club will spend any money well, it’s asking far too much and surely the football world will call us out as a total embarrassment if we go up again and don’t compete!   Personally, I can cope with the embarrassment but not the lack of competitiveness!    That hurts too much.

IMO, we (and most importantly the club), have to accept that our team, squad and club aren’t ready for a promotion (there’s no point) and get back to developing a new and better equipped team.   Ie, start again where Farke started, engage a manager with a clear philosophy, use our past experiences and mistakes to inform better choices and show patience again.    The reason the last experiment failed with Farke, was (in my opinion), that we were promoted a season too soon when the team didn’t have sufficient experience or depth to cope and we didn’t get some old heads in to help.    

That reset, that patient approach needs buy in from the fans so the club need to acknowledge their complete balls-up this last year or so and get back to something that’s sustainable, has integrity, is clear to us all and is progressive!     I can back that but the idea of another promotion with this lot just sends shivers!      

Let’s face it, the clubs infrastructure and finances are in a better position than they were four years ago, so there is no reason why we cannot sustain the club without a promotion.

We are losing some players whose contracts end soon anyway, and a club relying on developing players shouldn’t be loaning them in the championship, that’s one lesson that should’ve been learned already.   Send them back.

On the other hand, we do have quite a few young and promising players that need the opportunity and experience, but would also offer much-needed energy which the team currently lacks.

Take stock, set out another plan to be in the top 22 and then choose a manager!
 

Hold on a mo: I understood the main argument for sacking Smith was that the players were good enough to walk this league and should be capable of giving us entertaining football for a whole game; only Smith has been holding them back.

[Richard Richard 186]

13 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Hold on a mo: I understood the main argument for sacking Smith was that the players were good enough to walk this league and should be capable of giving us entertaining football for a whole game; only Smith has been holding them back.

Not everyone thinks that Birdie.

I have some sympathy for Smith. Whereas I think he failed us with some bewildering and erratic team selections, formations and substitutions I really don't think he had as much to play with as some think. His relationship (or lack of) with the fans is a different story.

I actually couldn't tell you who I think our best starting 11 is. We have huge holes in quality in our squad and I wouldn't be happy with many of our usual "first choice" players to be honest.

Some on here still think we will/should be walking the league with our squad, given the right manager. I think that's incredibly naïve. The argument of "most of the squad has achieved promotion before" doesn't stand up for me, players are older and at different stages of their career to name just two factors.

As much as I hope there's a big turnaround with a new manager, I won't hold my breath.

First game as season ticket holder this Friday - COYY!

[ged in the onion bag 857]

29 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Hold on a mo: I understood the main argument for sacking Smith was that the players were good enough to walk this league and should be capable of giving us entertaining football for a whole game; only Smith has been holding them back.

No, never were good enough… we were just told they were and some believed it!

But anyway, good enough for what?   EFL or EPL?    If the aim is the later, surely Smith and the club had no chance of success, even if they argued otherwise!   It’s there for all to see every time they take the field!   

[Wibble 109]

No the players arent good enough, we all knew this, thats why you get relegated. I do feel sorry for Dean Smith, but he just didnt fit at this time. Its just shame Farke wasnt given more firepower, Ive never enjoyed Norwich and the feeling so much !!!

 

[Petriix 2,853]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

That’s the fact!  

That's your opinion. I don't agree. Some of the players aren't good enough but add Gunn, Gibbs, Sara, Sargent and Nunez to the 9 players left from our last Championship winning team and you've got a reasonable squad to work with. Bring back Tzolis and Mumba under a new coach and we could have a reasonable hope of winning the playoffs.

Promotion would allow us to stabilise rather than be forced to offload half of the squad. There are many positives from the Webber era and we can surely build on things with the right appointment now.

[ron obvious 1,514]

What's really frustrating - & why I think our players are good enough to win the league - is that at times we have played some excellent, breathtaking football,  better than any other team in this league, which then fizzles out to mediocrity, poor passing & (usually) ignominious defeat.

So the ability is there. We just need the right coach ...

[vos 155]

6 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

What's really frustrating - & why I think our players are good enough to win the league - is that at times we have played some excellent, breathtaking football,  better than any other team in this league, which then fizzles out to mediocrity, poor passing & (usually) ignominious defeat.

So the ability is there. We just need the right coach ...

Don't think so. As I just mentioned on another thread this current side - perm any 11 from 20 - is not remotely anywhere near as good as the side who demolished  Boro  in the Wembley play-offs.

[ron obvious 1,514]

8 minutes ago, vos said:

Don't think so. As I just mentioned on another thread this current side - perm any 11 from 20 - is not remotely anywhere near as good as the side who demolished  Boro  in the Wembley play-offs.

Sorry, we'll just have to disagree on this one.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

Sadly you can't pick and choose when you get promoted, it doesn't work like that. There's also the risk that other clubs catch you up, or there's an unexpected 'big' club relegated to dominate the following season's promotion race.

If you have a lower level of expectation then we may as well have given Smith a few more transfer windows.

 

[horsefly 4,310]

2 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Why we need to take our time on a replacement!  
Smith is gone, the club stating it’s in the best interests of the club to appoint a new head coach geared towards repairing relationships on and off the pitch and ‘pushing for promotion’ back to the Premier League. 

Well, this is where the problem manifests sadly….  striving for an immediate EPL return will only cause further managerial problems and fan frustrations, since that objective isn’t feasible at all….   In all fairness to Smith, whilst he made a pigs ear of the role, he didn’t really have a chance of achieving the objectives…..
The club want promotion and the players aren’t good enough. The fans want quality entertaining football and the players aren’t good enough.    That’s the fact!  

We neither have the players or anywhere near the depth of quality in the squad.   Whilst we could conceivably get promoted this season, what’s the point!    This squad is nowhere near of the required quality either individually or collectively, and as we all know, there is no clear pattern of play or belief ingrained in the group.    Plainly, we don’t have the personnel in midfield to play from the back and to control football matches.   

The £200m hasn’t aided development in either of our previous promotions, which have just put us on a gravy train from which we’ve been desperately hanging on to it’s coupling chain!  Finally, we are losing grip!

Can anyone honestly see a scenario where a promotion will resolve our problems?     Is there a Pep Guardiola out there that could transform this in months….. The team needs power, pace, athleticism, a degree of quality and belief.   On our budgets, those traits in players needs to arrive from scouting principals.     Who of our long-established players is either capable or would relish another go in our circumstances, McLean, Pukki, Hanley, Aaron’s?    That’s our experience, hardly inspiring is it?  

Major problems that £200m can’t possibly resolve…….  
    •    We’ve still not addressed the vital CDM role and we need 3 of them, certainly Isaac Hayden isn’t the answer!
    •    Very few EPL level players, Gunn, Krul, Aarons, Omo, Pukki (and he may be gone next week)!
    •    One capable centre half, Omobamidele!
    •    Zero capable midfielders…. 
    •    Zero capable left-backs
    •    Zero capable wingers

We can’t even rely that the club will spend any money well, it’s asking far too much and surely the football world will call us out as a total embarrassment if we go up again and don’t compete!   Personally, I can cope with the embarrassment but not the lack of competitiveness!    That hurts too much.

IMO, we (and most importantly the club), have to accept that our team, squad and club aren’t ready for a promotion (there’s no point) and get back to developing a new and better equipped team.   Ie, start again where Farke started, engage a manager with a clear philosophy, use our past experiences and mistakes to inform better choices and show patience again.    The reason the last experiment failed with Farke, was (in my opinion), that we were promoted a season too soon when the team didn’t have sufficient experience or depth to cope and we didn’t get some old heads in to help.    

That reset, that patient approach needs buy in from the fans so the club need to acknowledge their complete balls-up this last year or so and get back to something that’s sustainable, has integrity, is clear to us all and is progressive!     I can back that but the idea of another promotion with this lot just sends shivers!      

Let’s face it, the clubs infrastructure and finances are in a better position than they were four years ago, so there is no reason why we cannot sustain the club without a promotion.

We are losing some players whose contracts end soon anyway, and a club relying on developing players shouldn’t be loaning them in the championship, that’s one lesson that should’ve been learned already.   Send them back.

On the other hand, we do have quite a few young and promising players that need the opportunity and experience, but would also offer much-needed energy which the team currently lacks.

Take stock, set out another plan to be in the top 22 and then choose a manager!
 

Same old nonsense you've been repeating ad nauseum doesn't make it any less crazy as a plan to ensure we spend the foreseeable future in mundane mid-table obscurity haemorrhaging money, and having to sell all our best talent to compensate for that loss. If the current squad is so poor that, "We neither have the players or anywhere near the depth of quality in the squad." what on earth do you think it is likely to look like after several seasons in the Championship? If £200m wasn't enough to resolve all the issues you raised how on earth do you think having no millions at all will help? Just how will having zero cash help us, "get back to developing a new and better equipped team"? Most academy players do not even develop to Championship standard, and those that did show genuine PL standard would have to be sold off to pay the bills (and would want to leave for a genuinely ambitious team anyway if they had any self respect). 

In the meantime are you really claiming that CR is going to be buzzing with excitement watching a bunch of developing youngsters get trounced on a regular basis as they get the experience of first team football that they are not actually ready for. No more booing just, "Bravo lads! only a 4-0 loss this week, but in about 4 years time you might be good enough to push for promotion".

As for "Farke four years ago"; all those finds discovered by "scouting principals" that proved so important to his success, would simply not be available now due to Brexit regulations. Only those with a proven international career would be given a visa, but of course, on your plan, we would have no money to buy such players. Also the last 4 years have seen the quality gap between PL and Championship considerably increase as a result of the ever widening wealth disparity. If it was a tall order to achieve PL survival 4 years ago, it is considerably harder with each passing year. Forest have literally had to buy a completely new squad to compete and even then they are among the favourites for demotion. 

But let's just entertain your idea for a foolish moment and imagine that your plan really did work and a team of youngsters were developed into a promotion winning squad; just what makes you think that they would be any "better equipped" to take on the PL than our previous squads? By definition they would be a bunch of players without any experience of PL football, so why are you so confident they would do so much better than our previous promoted squads? 

[ged in the onion bag 857]

4 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Sadly you can't pick and choose when you get promoted, it doesn't work like that. There's also the risk that other clubs catch you up, or there's an unexpected 'big' club relegated to dominate the following season's promotion race.

If you have a lower level of expectation then we may as well have given Smith a few more transfer windows.

 

Have to agree with you, you can’t pick and choose when you get promoted we can’t this season either and there are risks regardless… that’s football but you can pick and choose whether to try to progress in a pragmatic way!    If the brief is promotion, then the manager will chase that at the expense of developing a competitive team and either way he will fail… if we don’t go up, fail, but we are then further away from the promised land and if he does get promotion this group won’t be competitive.

We are simply less prepared for the EPL than any of the previous two promotions.

Expectation has to be based on reason not fantasy!    

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

12 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Have to agree with you, you can’t pick and choose when you get promoted we can’t this season either and there are risks regardless… that’s football but you can pick and choose whether to try to progress in a pragmatic way!    If the brief is promotion, then the manager will chase that at the expense of developing a competitive team and either way he will fail… if we don’t go up, fail, but we are then further away from the promised land and if he does get promotion this group won’t be competitive.

We are simply less prepared for the EPL than any of the previous two promotions.

Expectation has to be based on reason not fantasy!    

Probably we are.

The bit I'm struggling with is how better we needed to be than when we got promoted with Farke. We weren't even close to surviving. Even if the new manager develops us to those levels it still won't be good enough and I reckon in that 2nd promotion under Farke we were as good as any Championship team could have been. Realistically there's a limit to how good you can be in the Championship and not get promoted, as you will lose all your best players - a problem we will have next summer.

I think I see the point you are making but cannot see how you can organically bridge the gap without the rewards of EPL TV money no matter how you try to develop.

[Helsinki canary 243]

7 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Why we need to take our time on a replacement!  
Smith is gone, the club stating it’s in the best interests of the club to appoint a new head coach geared towards repairing relationships on and off the pitch and ‘pushing for promotion’ back to the Premier League. 

Well, this is where the problem manifests sadly….  striving for an immediate EPL return will only cause further managerial problems and fan frustrations, since that objective isn’t feasible at all….   In all fairness to Smith, whilst he made a pigs ear of the role, he didn’t really have a chance of achieving the objectives…..
The club want promotion and the players aren’t good enough. The fans want quality entertaining football and the players aren’t good enough.    That’s the fact!  

We neither have the players or anywhere near the depth of quality in the squad.   Whilst we could conceivably get promoted this season, what’s the point!    This squad is nowhere near of the required quality either individually or collectively, and as we all know, there is no clear pattern of play or belief ingrained in the group.    Plainly, we don’t have the personnel in midfield to play from the back and to control football matches.   

The £200m hasn’t aided development in either of our previous promotions, which have just put us on a gravy train from which we’ve been desperately hanging on to it’s coupling chain!  Finally, we are losing grip!

Can anyone honestly see a scenario where a promotion will resolve our problems?     Is there a Pep Guardiola out there that could transform this in months….. The team needs power, pace, athleticism, a degree of quality and belief.   On our budgets, those traits in players needs to arrive from scouting principals.     Who of our long-established players is either capable or would relish another go in our circumstances, McLean, Pukki, Hanley, Aaron’s?    That’s our experience, hardly inspiring is it?  

Major problems that £200m can’t possibly resolve…….  
    •    We’ve still not addressed the vital CDM role and we need 3 of them, certainly Isaac Hayden isn’t the answer!
    •    Very few EPL level players, Gunn, Krul, Aarons, Omo, Pukki (and he may be gone next week)!
    •    One capable centre half, Omobamidele!
    •    Zero capable midfielders…. 
    •    Zero capable left-backs
    •    Zero capable wingers

We can’t even rely that the club will spend any money well, it’s asking far too much and surely the football world will call us out as a total embarrassment if we go up again and don’t compete!   Personally, I can cope with the embarrassment but not the lack of competitiveness!    That hurts too much.

IMO, we (and most importantly the club), have to accept that our team, squad and club aren’t ready for a promotion (there’s no point) and get back to developing a new and better equipped team.   Ie, start again where Farke started, engage a manager with a clear philosophy, use our past experiences and mistakes to inform better choices and show patience again.    The reason the last experiment failed with Farke, was (in my opinion), that we were promoted a season too soon when the team didn’t have sufficient experience or depth to cope and we didn’t get some old heads in to help.    

That reset, that patient approach needs buy in from the fans so the club need to acknowledge their complete balls-up this last year or so and get back to something that’s sustainable, has integrity, is clear to us all and is progressive!     I can back that but the idea of another promotion with this lot just sends shivers!      

Let’s face it, the clubs infrastructure and finances are in a better position than they were four years ago, so there is no reason why we cannot sustain the club without a promotion.

We are losing some players whose contracts end soon anyway, and a club relying on developing players shouldn’t be loaning them in the championship, that’s one lesson that should’ve been learned already.   Send them back.

On the other hand, we do have quite a few young and promising players that need the opportunity and experience, but would also offer much-needed energy which the team currently lacks.

Take stock, set out another plan to be in the top 22 and then choose a manager!
 

This post Pretty much hits the mark for me - I would however add that we also need a replacement for Emi or (Wes) in addition to the cdms mentioned in the post. Would we have gone up as champions last time without Emi and Skipp? I very much doubt it - that team was built around them and of course Pukki feeding of Emi’s magic.

[Van wink 2,994]

22 minutes ago, Helsinki canary said:

This post Pretty much hits the mark for me - I would however add that we also need a replacement for Emi or (Wes) in addition to the cdms mentioned in the post. Would we have gone up as champions last time without Emi and Skipp? I very much doubt it - that team was built around them and of course Pukki feeding of Emi’s magic.

Absolutely, the team that went up was weaker than the one we won the Championship with giving ourselves no real prospect of success. I really can’t see what another season of being whipping boys in the EPL is going to do to improve things at our club, it can only be destructive imo.

[ged in the onion bag 857]

18 hours ago, Petriix said:

That's your opinion. I don't agree. Some of the players aren't good enough but add Gunn, Gibbs, Sara, Sargent and Nunez to the 9 players left from our last Championship winning team and you've got a reasonable squad to work with. Bring back Tzolis and Mumba under a new coach and we could have a reasonable hope of winning the playoffs.

Promotion would allow us to stabilise rather than be forced to offload half of the squad. There are many positives from the Webber era and we can surely build on things with the right appointment now.

None of those players you quote have any proven experience at the much higher level that is the EPL.   Gunn at a push!   The rest are average Championship players on the evidence of this season.   They aren’t ready to step up by any stretch of imagination. Not as a group anyway!

All these players can develop from another season in the EFL, they won’t develop in the EPL, the team just won’t be able to compete, they’ll all be chasing shadows rather than developing.    It needs some patience right now IMO!   
 

How will promotion allow us to stabilise when the whole squad is so deficient and when it didn’t allow us to do so the last two experiences?    Promotion would be a car crash with this lot!  Also likely Pukki wouldn’t hang around to suffer that impending excruciation anyway!    

[ged in the onion bag 857]

13 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Probably we are.

The bit I'm struggling with is how better we needed to be than when we got promoted with Farke. We weren't even close to surviving. Even if the new manager develops us to those levels it still won't be good enough and I reckon in that 2nd promotion under Farke we were as good as any Championship team could have been. Realistically there's a limit to how good you can be in the Championship and not get promoted, as you will lose all your best players - a problem we will have next summer.

I think I see the point you are making but cannot see how you can organically bridge the gap without the rewards of EPL TV money no matter how you try to develop.

Well Brentford have managed to develop patiently and are now thriving!   It is possible.

As I said, the first promotion, we went up too soon and weren’t as ready as most thought, plus we didn’t get in any upgrades to help the team.   We didn’t address that vital CDM position (still haven’t) and also had terrible injury problems, VAR didn’t help us either.   

The second promotion relied on the brilliance of Buendia and Skipp’s industry, neither stepped up with us and the signings were abysmal!    

The key is to develop enough players of the required skill traits, pace, power, athleticism etc… in a system that they are effective…. Not easy of course but the club thought that was possible, it is possible (Brentford), Farke achieved it to an extent and we need to try again!   We’ve since gained some valuable experiences and lessons to help.  It’s surely better as a journey and for the integrity of the club than getting completely tonked and embarrassed each time we visit the joyless promised land!

If we can’t bridge the gap perhaps we can have a more enjoyable time trying than what’s currently happening I.e chasing a dream that’s really a ‘nightmare in waiting’, at the expense of developing something that brings some longer term joy to the fans and sustainability for the club!   We won’t do that of course if we loan and help develop 19yr olds who we have no chance of signing.

Players will inevitably leave, the biggest loss will be Pukki but he may be gone next week and if not he will take some massive convincing to sign on for another thankless struggle up top, given the poor quality of our supply!

We can’t and haven’t bridged the gap with the TV money anyway!   We need something sufficient to work with first!   Only then will we have a chance at prospering!

Edited December 29, 2022 by ged in the onion bag

[ged in the onion bag 857]

On 28/12/2022 at 15:46, ron obvious said:

What's really frustrating - & why I think our players are good enough to win the league - is that at times we have played some excellent, breathtaking football,  better than any other team in this league, which then fizzles out to mediocrity, poor passing & (usually) ignominious defeat.

So the ability is there. We just need the right coach ...

Not sure we are good enough now, actually we definitely aren’t but it’s not beyond the realms of possibility we do get promoted….. if that happens though there’s a chasm in quality and squad depth we aren’t bridging with any amount of money…. Not within 6 or even 12 months.   Am immediate and excruciating relegation is inevitable!   
 

Just imagine we go up, they’ll think we’ve already solved the CDM position with Hayden, that proven EPL maestro…. Dear oh dear!!!!
 

We need patience right now for the reasons stated above!    The desperation for promotion is killing opportunities for improvement!   Promotion isn’t practical or feasible right now!   

Edited December 29, 2022 by ged in the onion bag

[ged in the onion bag 857]

If it doesn't change, it stays the same............... no it doesn't it regresses!     Say no more!    Doesn't this thread all sound familiar (December 22).   It will keep regressing without proper honesty and re-assessment of where we actually are and finally, massive change throughout our club.   

To me, it was obvious then, it's still obvious now, yet that lot in charge are so blinded, so out of touch, so incompetent.    What a shame they've lost their way so dramatically they just 'can't see the wood for the trees'.   

Sad to see.   OTBC!

 

[stratton canary 135]

18 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

If it doesn't change, it stays the same............... no it doesn't it regresses!     Say no more!    Doesn't this thread all sound familiar (December 22).   It will keep regressing without proper honesty and re-assessment of where we actually are and finally, massive change throughout our club.   

To me, it was obvious then, it's still obvious now, yet that lot in charge are so blinded, so out of touch, so incompetent.    What a shame they've lost their way so dramatically they just 'can't see the wood for the trees'.   

Sad to see.   OTBC!

 

So true fella, but any takeover is at least 2.5 years away,  where will we be by then while this shower remain in charge, Scary thought! 

[ged in the onion bag 857]

16 minutes ago, stratton canary said:

So true fella, but any takeover is at least 2.5 years away,  where will we be by then while this shower remain in charge, Scary thought! 

Fortunately 2.5 yrs is not tolerable, think we are near the end game with that.   Fans will eventually rebel as we decline.   Delia and Michael won’t be in place much longer.  It’s such a shame, I really supported them for a long time, but it’s now clear they are in the cul de sac.

Unfortunately, there’s literally nothing evident at the club to demonstrate hope at the moment.    Hopefully, Knapper will show us the way.   I’m not hopeful and Attanasio has no experience in football so their level of involvement and expertise remains unknown.

Another manager is not going to chance the momentum on its own.