Tzolis linked with Brugge

[Chelm Canary 404]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I do agree that the loan system needs an overhaul to stop big clubs stockpiling youngsters, and I believe new regulations are coming in to limit the amount of players that a club can loan out at any one time.

I remember one season not so long ago that Chelsea had something like 30 odd youngsters out on loan. 

[Mullet 293]

On 27/05/2022 at 15:00, king canary said:

Apparently we're talking to Brugge with a loan or permanent on the table.

If true it seems we're just cutting our losses on this one.

What a complete waste of money. I hope this is just the start of the clear out, though I fear Webber will do well to reclaim half of the clubs transfer budget he p1ssed up the wall. 

Webber if you are reading this. You are better signing championship players used to playing in English football rather than wasting every penny you have on Greek and USA internationals playing in Europe's lower leagues who are way off the pace. And just because you play for Scotland doesn't make you good enough for the PL either. Also please scout players by actually watching them play over several games rather than looking purely at statistics on a graph. Anybody sane person scouting Huggill would have not spent a penny on him. However you have approached recruitment in the past, rip it up because it's complete b0ll0cks. I think the only way I can ever forgive you is if you man up and apologise or even better become an agent and head of player recruitment for Ipswich.

[1902 1,167]

7 hours ago, Mullet said:

What a complete waste of money. I hope this is just the start of the clear out, though I fear Webber will do well to reclaim half of the clubs transfer budget he p1ssed up the wall. 

Webber if you are reading this. You are better signing championship players used to playing in English football rather than wasting every penny you have on Greek and USA internationals playing in Europe's lower leagues who are way off the pace. And just because you play for Scotland doesn't make you good enough for the PL either. Also please scout players by actually watching them play over several games rather than looking purely at statistics on a graph. Anybody sane person scouting Huggill would have not spent a penny on him. However you have approached recruitment in the past, rip it up because it's complete b0ll0cks. I think the only way I can ever forgive you is if you man up and apologise or even better become an agent and head of player recruitment for Ipswich.

One of those Scots was one of the best players we had all season and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that Sargent won't do ok in the Championship. 

However, our youth strategy does seem to have gone a little haywire now. Sinani has done well in a strong Huddersfield side, but they have an option to buy so we might lose him whether we want to or not.

Now we are apparently considering loaning out a player we spent €8,000,000 on because we don't think he can play Championship football, but somehow he is good enough to play for the Belgian title holder who will play Champions league this year.

Now this all could be rubbish, but if it's true it suggests an attitude problem (again, only on the face of it) which would make him along with Soto and Cantwell, another player who is rumoured to have an issue with getting their heads down and playing.

It's a worrying man management issue which would seem to be derailing our strategy completely.

[kirku 1,334]

11 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Now this all could be rubbish, but if it's true it suggests an attitude problem (again, only on the face of it) which would make him along with Soto and Cantwell, another player who is rumoured to have an issue with getting their heads down and playing.

It's a worrying man management issue which would seem to be derailing our strategy completely.

Jumping to extreme conclusions based on a very limited amount of information. 

But to what end?

[Ulfotto 635]

Personally I hope Tzolis comes good however a theory on why we might look to loan him out might be as follows.

We signed him for 10 million euros let’s say 2.5 million was up front. I would imagine the rest might trigger after a certain amount of appearances. He is currently around 20-25 appearances. 
 

It MIGHT be that after one or two more appearances we owe say another 5 million euros. If we are not convinced by him long term then maybe getting him out of loan might be a way to increase his profile and get some of our initial outlay back without throwing another x Million at it.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Ulfotto

[kenfoggo 247]

No Sporting Director would purchase a player for £8,000,000 to loan him out . He was purchased to play for THIS club. Not Brugge. This story must be rubbish.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Just odd that he was bought with the future in mind and yet we’re not going to see it through.

Unless Brugge are going to buy him for near what we’ve paid we should just keep him and use him in the championship. Perhaps he could be the next Danjuma 

[king canary 7,609]

1 hour ago, Ulfotto said:

Personally I hope Tzolis comes good however a theory on why we might look to loan him out might be as follows.

We signed him for 10 million euros let’s say 2.5 million was up front. I would imagine the rest might trigger after a certain amount of appearances. He is currently around 20-25 appearances. 
 

It MIGHT be that after one or two more appearances we owe say another 5 million euros. If we are not convinced by him long term then maybe getting him out of loan might be a way to increase his profile and get some of our initial outlay back without throwing another x Million at it.

I can't see this being remotely close to be honest. No way that a club sells their hottest young prospect for only 2.5m euros guaranteed. However I do think the suggested 11m euros will have some performance based elements we won't have triggered.

My assumption, if this happens, is just that the player doesn't think he can make it work here, the manager agrees, Brugge are willing to give us a fee that would allow us to recoup a significant % of our original outlay and we've all decided a fresh start is for the best.

[1902 1,167]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

Jumping to extreme conclusions based on a very limited amount of information. 

But to what end?

As I said. It suggests an attitude problem (though perhaps a case of personalities not fitting would have been less loaded) because I can't think why else we would loan him out if he is good enough for Brugge. If you have another explanation I'd love to hear it but I can't think of one. I also made it clear that we are working off very limited information.

I also pointed out this is the third time we have had some very bizarre machinations on the loan market involving young players, so perhaps, it's not them that's the issue.

However if you dont want speculation on a message board about football. You will probably struggle to find one that suits you.

Edited May 30, 2022 by 1902

[hogesar 9,676]

16 minutes ago, king canary said:

I can't see this being remotely close to be honest. No way that a club sells their hottest young prospect for only 2.5m euros guaranteed. However I do think the suggested 11m euros will have some performance based elements we won't have triggered.

My assumption, if this happens, is just that the player doesn't think he can make it work here, the manager agrees, Brugge are willing to give us a fee that would allow us to recoup a significant % of our original outlay and we've all decided a fresh start is for the best.

Yeah, sounds the most likely. Tzolis may have just lost all confidence and doesn't think English football is for him. He'd hardly be the first incredibly bright prospect to completely falter when moving to England.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, kenfoggo said:

No Sporting Director would purchase a player for £8,000,000 to loan him out . He was purchased to play for THIS club. Not Brugge. This story must be rubbish.

On the face of it this sounds pretty reasonable but if you look at it in the context of the way Webber spent our cash last summer, for example we also spent £8m on a goalkeeper that we had absolutely no need for and I forget just what Sargent cost.........

Add to that the fact that neither of our managers this season thought he was a serious contender for the first team (this season, although maybe they believed he was/is a propect for the future) and we're back to the conclusion that many of us reached a long time ago - we were largely sunk last season by the mistakes our Sporting Directors made before the season even began, though he managed to make things even worse as the season went on even

[Ulfotto 635]

49 minutes ago, king canary said:

I can't see this being remotely close to be honest. No way that a club sells their hottest young prospect for only 2.5m euros guaranteed. However I do think the suggested 11m euros will have some performance based elements we won't have triggered.

My assumption, if this happens, is just that the player doesn't think he can make it work here, the manager agrees, Brugge are willing to give us a fee that would allow us to recoup a significant % of our original outlay and we've all decided a fresh start is for the best.

You probably right but the devil is in the detail. You never know Webber might actually be good at these deals and went low for the initial payment with the bulk after a low of appearances say 25.

 

[kirku 1,334]

2 hours ago, 1902 said:

As I said. It suggests an attitude problem (though perhaps a case of personalities not fitting would have been less loaded) because I can't think why else we would loan him out if he is good enough for Brugge. If you have another explanation I'd love to hear it but I can't think of one. I also made it clear that we are working off very limited information.

I also pointed out this is the third time we have had some very bizarre machinations on the loan market involving young players, so perhaps, it's not them that's the issue.

However if you dont want speculation on a message board about football. You will probably struggle to find one that suits you.

No, it does not.

It could suggest any number of things, or a combination thereof:

• failure to settle in England
• limited route to first team football in the short-term
• re-evaluation of his longer term potential
• attractive offer proposed by Brugge
• part of a deal with a player coming the other way
• change of formation for next season

I'm sure there are other hypotheticals which I've missed but it's a huge leap to try and make out that the only plausible possibility is an "attitude problem".

[king canary 7,609]

1 hour ago, Ulfotto said:

You probably right but the devil is in the detail. You never know Webber might actually be good at these deals and went low for the initial payment with the bulk after a low of appearances say 25.

 

I have no doubt Webber probably negotiated a decent deal, I just don't think anyone is negotiating a deal where you get a player as rated as Tzolis clearly was/is for that little. 

[1902 1,167]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

No, it does not.

It could suggest any number of things, or a combination thereof:

• failure to settle in England
• limited route to first team football in the short-term
• re-evaluation of his longer term potential
• attractive offer proposed by Brugge
• part of a deal with a player coming the other way
• change of formation for next season

I'm sure there are other hypotheticals which I've missed but it's a huge leap to try and make out that the only plausible possibility is an "attitude problem".

Fair enough Kirku. You make a good case.

[Google Bot 3,278]

Smith's previous comments on Tzolis (end of Feb) were:

“We’re working on him to improve,”

“His confidence has been hit by not playing and not being involved as much."

“He has come to a foreign country and he is finding his way."

“That adaptation period has probably taken a little bit longer but we are willing to wait and work and nurture him because we see a talented player.”

I just don't see how a loan to a third country in the space of a year will bring him any kind of stability, and I can't see us letting a 9-10m player just go on the cheap when there's investors pricing up the club. 

I'm thinking (And very much hoping) that these stories are just waffle and he's very much in contention next season.  We need to remember that despite the negativity many supporters throw his way, he's very much a young talent on the European radar so stories will always exist around him.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Google Bot

[Segura 84]

15 hours ago, Mullet said:

What a complete waste of money. I hope this is just the start of the clear out, though I fear Webber will do well to reclaim half of the clubs transfer budget he p1ssed up the wall. 

Webber if you are reading this. You are better signing championship players used to playing in English football rather than wasting every penny you have on Greek and USA internationals playing in Europe's lower leagues who are way off the pace. And just because you play for Scotland doesn't make you good enough for the PL either. Also please scout players by actually watching them play over several games rather than looking purely at statistics on a graph. Anybody sane person scouting Huggill would have not spent a penny on him. However you have approached recruitment in the past, rip it up because it's complete b0ll0cks. I think the only way I can ever forgive you is if you man up and apologise or even better become an agent and head of player recruitment for Ipswich.

The problem here, as ever is finances. Years ago we could sign proven Champs players when we were in the Prem, see Howson, Snoddy and Morrison. Sadly the market has changed and you get a player like Jared Bowen going for upwards of £20 million.

Webber has tried to buy well with limited means and he's had mixed success. I think he saw Tzolis as a wildcard and it just hasn't worked so we may have to cut our losses - but I'm not going to judge just yet, we may sign a better replacement, equally Tzolis may come good down the line.

Where I would argue is your point on Hugill - yes he's limited but he served a purpose last season and given the market issues mentioned above he may well come in pretty handy again.

[Canaries north 151]

On 29/05/2022 at 13:57, canarybubbles said:

You can have it both ways, as long as you're a big club.

I'd like to see the whole loan system outlawed unless every loan included a right to buy at the end of the loan. The loan system as it stands enables the big clubs to collect promising youngsters and eliminate their risk by loaning out young players to clubs further down the food chain. I know we do this at a much lower level, but that doesn't make it right.  

The loan system is an ****. Just gives the big boys more reason to stockpile young players. 

[Mullet 293]

12 hours ago, king canary said:

I can't see this being remotely close to be honest. No way that a club sells their hottest young prospect for only 2.5m euros guaranteed. However I do think the suggested 11m euros will have some performance based elements we won't have triggered.

My assumption, if this happens, is just that the player doesn't think he can make it work here, the manager agrees, Brugge are willing to give us a fee that would allow us to recoup a significant % of our original outlay and we've all decided a fresh start is for the best.

I hope you're right and we can recoup somewhere near the fee we paid. Tzolis appears to have been way over rated and I honestly don't know what Brugge are thinking. 

[chicken 2,627]

11 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

On the face of it this sounds pretty reasonable but if you look at it in the context of the way Webber spent our cash last summer, for example we also spent £8m on a goalkeeper that we had absolutely no need for and I forget just what Sargent cost.........

Well, Gunn cost £5m, £2.5m up front, with a further £2.5m later in the season.

Sargent cost around £8m. I believe Rashica was around £8.5m and Tzolis was around £9m. (pinkun sources).

[non-scoring strikers 113]

Tzolis looked fine before he got Farked after that penalty incident.

bad man management has led to this.

[Google Bot 3,278]

5 hours ago, non-scoring strikers said:

Tzolis looked fine before he got Farked after that penalty incident.

bad man management has led to this.

Smith had plenty of free games after we got relegated, and chose not to play him.  25 minutes gametime since Mid Jan!

I think the biggest problem is finding his role, hasn't blistering pace so doesn't get a start out wide with Rashica there, and he's not established enough to throw him in the middle for 4-5 matches to see if he finds his feet.

My concern is that we have a great player on our hands, but not the system to support him.

I see Tzolis as more a Buendia type, whereby his skill is where the magic lies, not pace.  At Villa, Smith seemed to favour Emi in the central position, which makes me wonder who he has to displace to get into this team.  It could be Rashica, it could PLM's later role, and now Rowe/Dowell/PP/Cantwell/Springett are in the mix.

Can't get my head around how he gets into this team to show his credentials against live opponents, it's become catch 22.