By the end of the Season who will be our CB Pairing?

[birchfest 397]

Well today certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons, Omobamidele clearly not viewed as only 4th choice and Gibson with some work to do after what I viewed as a very good performance. With Kabak also coming into the fold, it looks like we have for the first time in a while legitimate competition for the start.
 

So what does everyone think? I’m half tempted to say by the end of the season it will be Kabak and Omobamidele who will featured the most.

[lake district canary 4,539]

4 hours ago, birchfest said:

Well today certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons, Omobamidele clearly not viewed as only 4th choice and Gibson with some work to do after what I viewed as a very good performance. With Kabak also coming into the fold, it looks like we have for the first time in a while legitimate competition for the start.
 

So what does everyone think? I’m half tempted to say by the end of the season it will be Kabak and Omobamidele who will featured the most.

I think all of them will get plenty of minutes, but would agree that given Omobamidele's development and obvious ability, it should combine well with the quality of Kabak and then the two of them becoming the dominant pairing.

[Monty13 2,235]

Hanley will and should stay.

A back line with an average age of 20 in the PL is suicidal.

[lake district canary 4,539]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Hanley will and should stay.

A back line with an average age of 20 in the PL is suicidal.

If you are good enough, you are old enough.

[Branston 53]

Gibson and Kabak . Gibson's game suffered being dragged around the pitch covering for Aarons and Hanley .

[Monty13 2,235]

6 hours ago, lake district canary said:

If you are good enough, you are old enough.

On an individual basis yes, as a collective no experience is dangerous.

Show me a top flight team that’s ever been successful with a back four of U21s.

[Yellow and Green 334]

5 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Hanley will and should stay.

A back line with an average age of 20 in the PL is suicidal.

I'd agree with this. 

It's early days for AO and, whilst he hasn't done too much wrong, there will be games where we need an experienced head at the back. 

Having a defense with an average age of 20 is when people call us naive.

[Capt. Pants 4,261]

By the end of the season? I wouldn't want to predict for the Watford game!

Farke hasn't decided on his first XI yet and the only one fairly certain of his selection is Aarons.

[Midlands Yellow 4,012]

Pukki and Cantwell. 

[Yella Army 57]

For me Williams and Aarons are nailed on starters for the full back spots. 

 

I would start with Omo and Kabak vs Watford as Hanleys technique on the ball simply isn't good enough to play the ball from the back. He takes too long and doesn't have the ability to pick a tight pass. 

 

Whilst that would present a very young back 4, I wouldn't be concerned as apart from omo, they've all played plenty of games at the top level.

[Jsim1986 150]

30 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

I'd agree with this. 

It's early days for AO and, whilst he hasn't done too much wrong, there will be games where we need an experienced head at the back. 

Having a defense with an average age of 20 is when people call us naive.

Hanely was dreadful yesterday and is a massive weak link. He would be my 4th choice 

[Jsim1986 150]

1 minute ago, Yella Army said:

For me Williams and Aarons are nailed on starters for the full back spots. 

 

I would start with Omo and Kabak vs Watford as Hanleys technique on the ball simply isn't good enough to play the ball from the back. He takes too long and doesn't have the ability to pick a tight pass. 

 

Whilst that would present a very young back 4, I wouldn't be concerned as apart from omo, they've all played plenty of games at the top level.

Nail on head. Couldn't said better myself

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,822]

We're running the risk of being in a similar position to two years ago. We had Aarons (19), Godfrey (21) and Lewis (21) who were all too good as individuals to leave out but who collectively lacked experience even with someone like Hanley or Zimmermann.

This time, we have Aarons, Williams and Kabak (all 21) who are probably in the 'too good to leave out' category, and Omobamidele (19) wouldn't be out of place either. 

Something has to give, but what? I'd argue that our two other full back options (Mumba and Giannoulis) wouldn't really add much leadership and guidance, so do we just take a massive a gamble on youth or continue with at least one of Hanley or Gibson?

[Jsim1986 150]

8 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We're running the risk of being in a similar position to two years ago. We had Aarons (19), Godfrey (21) and Lewis (21) who were all too good as individuals to leave out but who collectively lacked experience even with someone like Hanley or Zimmermann.

This time, we have Aarons, Williams and Kabak (all 21) who are probably in the 'too good to leave out' category, and Omobamidele (19) wouldn't be out of place either. 

Something has to give, but what? I'd argue that our two other full back options (Mumba and Giannoulis) wouldn't really add much leadership and guidance, so do we just take a massive a gamble on youth or continue with at least one of Hanley or Gibson?

Literally any one is better than Hanley, he was dreadful yesterday

[Baracouda 47]

7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We're running the risk of being in a similar position to two years ago. We had Aarons (19), Godfrey (21) and Lewis (21) who were all too good as individuals to leave out but who collectively lacked experience even with someone like Hanley or Zimmermann.

This time, we have Aarons, Williams and Kabak (all 21) who are probably in the 'too good to leave out' category, and Omobamidele (19) wouldn't be out of place either. 

Something has to give, but what? I'd argue that our two other full back options (Mumba and Giannoulis) wouldn't really add much leadership and guidance, so do we just take a massive a gamble on youth or continue with at least one of Hanley or Gibson?

I think how Omo has played against Portugal, Serbia and now Arsenal. If he keeps that level up, then he will at least be the equal of Hanley and Gibson.  Tomkinson is also progressing rapidly.

[rock bus 854]

I’m not sure why everyone is so anti Hanley. 
id be very worried if we played  Kabak and Omonbamidele together along with two young full backs. We’d be exactly where we were two years ago with a young and experienced back line.

Hanley isn’t perfect but he is a good strong defender with pace. he also brings a level head and experience to the team He can leave the ball playing to others. It’s only since he’s been back in the team that I haven’t felt we are going to concede every time the opposition make a cross or take a corner.

[Jsim1986 150]

5 minutes ago, rock bus said:

I’m not sure why everyone is so anti Hanley. 
id be very worried if we played  Kabak and Omonbamidele together along with two young full backs. We’d be exactly where we were two years ago with a young and experienced back line.

Hanley isn’t perfect but he is a good strong defender with pace. he also brings a level head and experience to the team He can leave the ball playing to others. It’s only since he’s been back in the team that I haven’t felt we are going to concede every time the opposition make a cross or take a corner.

Because he was dreadful yesterday that's why people and especially myself are anti him. His distribution is no where near good enough for the prem the amount of times he goes back to Krul instead of a going forward puts us under so much pressure

Edited September 12, 2021 by Jsim1986

[lake district canary 4,539]

5 hours ago, Jsim1986 said:

Because he was dreadful yesterday that's why people and especially myself are anti him. His distribution is no where near good enough for the prem the amount of times he goes back to Krul instead of a going forward puts us under so much pressure

The combination of Hanley and Krul makes me nervous.  Hanley isn't the best at close control and passing (although he has improved - and is still improving) and Krul never looks comfortable distributing the ball, so there are several occasions every match where the opposition get encouragement from being able to pick the ball up easily. Add to that Ruup, who also gave the ball away at one point in a very exposed place and you see the problem we  have - just too many times not controlling the ball well enough or passing to one of our team.  Imo that is why  Kabak and Omobamidele will imo be the best pairing, with Normann in for Ruup.

The team can handle Krul not being brilliant at passing the ball out because of his excellence the rest of the time, but not the players in front of him - they have to be better, because in combination, the way we play involves passing around at the back and it has to improve.

[canarydan23 4,060]

22 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

We're running the risk of being in a similar position to two years ago. We had Aarons (19), Godfrey (21) and Lewis (21) who were all too good as individuals to leave out but who collectively lacked experience even with someone like Hanley or Zimmermann.

This time, we have Aarons, Williams and Kabak (all 21) who are probably in the 'too good to leave out' category, and Omobamidele (19) wouldn't be out of place either. 

Something has to give, but what? I'd argue that our two other full back options (Mumba and Giannoulis) wouldn't really add much leadership and guidance, so do we just take a massive a gamble on youth or continue with at least one of Hanley or Gibson?

Kabak has over 50 appearances in European top flights with a smattering of Champions Leagues games plus 13 international caps. Aarons has more professional appearances than Wan-Bissaka. Williams has played nearly 20 times for one of the world's biggest clubs.

Age is just a number, it's experience that counts. A back four of Williams, Kabak, Omobamidele, Aarons is a much less naive prospect at PL level than Lewis, Godfrey, AN Other, Aarons was two years ago. You can't even compare the two to be honest.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

On 12/09/2021 at 01:09, Monty13 said:

Hanley will and should stay.

A back line with an average age of 20 in the PL is suicidal.

honestly out of all of our options, I actually think Hanley is the most limited. This isn't me hating him at all as he's a quality no nonsense defender but realistically the other 3 have more about their games in my view.

Funny thing is how Hanley seems to divide opinion. According to some he's a donkey that needs sending out back and according to others he's Franco Baresi and undroppable.

I'm still hoping to see the 5 at the back tried out. It's just how you then set up in front that becomes the conundrum. Maybe Normann and Gilmour/McLean/PLM in double 6 and then a front 3 of 2 of Cantwell/Tzolis/Rashica playing fairly tight behind Pukki/Sargent and the width being provided by the full backs?

[Capt. Pants 4,261]

Can't comment on Kabak as I haven't seen him play, but Gibson doesn't look good so far. Unfortunately the way we play amplifies the distribution ability of Gibson and Hanley and I have to say Krul as well. They are very good no nonsense defenders but an instant liabilty against a high press.

[Google Bot 3,295]

On 12/09/2021 at 08:09, Yella Army said:

For me Williams and Aarons are nailed on starters for the full back spots. 

I wouldn't be too sure about that, Aarons is nothing like the player in the championship in regards to an attacking sense.  He's failing to get into attacking positions. I don't know how much of that is due to the formation change, but he just seems to lack the same energy when watching him.

I can see Dimitris (Left) and Williams (Right) in those roles if it continues, as Williams is better defensively and Dimi looks more proficient at coming forwards than Aarons.  Right now, I feel this is a change that would make us stronger.

As for CB, as long as Gibson isn't first choice i'll be happy - keep saying it, he's too slow, doesn't win balls in the air enough and has a habit of pulling our backline out of shape.  Should've took that 8m, doubled it and put into a more suitable CB.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Google Bot

[Google Bot 3,295]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Unfortunately the way we play amplifies the distribution ability of Gibson and Hanley and I have to say Krul as well. They are very good no nonsense defenders but an instant liabilty against a high press.

One thing I would give Gibson credit for is his ability on the ball and to distribute.   In his defence I'd say that the movement off the ball has been really poor which limits his choices and ultimately forces him to play it back/sideways.

We need 1,2,3,4 players moving to be able to find the passes into them, get behind your man/out of eyeline and pivot off them to create space.  That's the very basics of the passing game, yet most of the squad don't seem interested in applying movement and hard work in regards to positioning.

I know our training is hard here as many players have commented on it - So we must have the legs to be more active.  Or perhaps it's having a detrimental effect on matchday?  I'd be very surprised if that was the case though, as the coaching and science applied seems pretty good to me.   

Maybe it's just youth/inexperience/lack of confidence showing that causes us to freeze a little?  Because in the final 10 minutes of games we seem to come alive in a 'do or die' sense.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Google Bot

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,822]

10 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Kabak has over 50 appearances in European top flights with a smattering of Champions Leagues games plus 13 international caps. Aarons has more professional appearances than Wan-Bissaka. Williams has played nearly 20 times for one of the world's biggest clubs.

Age is just a number, it's experience that counts. A back four of Williams, Kabak, Omobamidele, Aarons is a much less naive prospect at PL level than Lewis, Godfrey, AN Other, Aarons was two years ago. You can't even compare the two to be honest.

Aarons, Kabak, Omobamidele and Williams have a combined total of 113 top flight appearances between them. Checking the total appearances of the regular defences of all Premier League clubs would be a painstaking and laborious task, but I'm guessing that most, if not all, Premier League clubs will have an individual with that number, never mind all of them in total. A defence with 113 top flight appearances between them in total would be considerably the lowest in the Premier League, I'm sure.

Obviously if you're old enough you're good enough and every individual and every situation should be judged on its own individual merits, but a defence of Aarons, Kabak, Omobamidele and Williams, at an average age of 20 years and 10 months, would undoubtedly be one of the youngest and most inexperienced defences the Pemier League has ever seen. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I do find it a bit odd just how many people on twitter are passionately leaping to the defence of Hanley as if he's undroppable. We are in the prem now so there is no room for sentiment. We also have signed 2 quality new central defenders and brought on through that are all capable of putting the pressure on him for his spot.

We've got one that's proven competent before in the prem in Gibson and one that's proven competent in the champions league in Kabak and a wonderkid who all at the club seem to rave about. All 4 deserve at least a chance to claim their space rather than blindly just sticking with what hasn't worked as a partnership really so far.

We're different this time up, we have signed a full 11 that has improved the squad vastly and we should be using it. Sargent is another one that is chomping at the bit and Pukki for all he's done for us has had a bit of a slow start.

Seems some are almost personally offended that some of last seasons heroes places might just be under threat.

The reason our young defence didn't achieve last time around is because Aarons was 2 years younger, it was Lewis first top flight season, Godfreys first as a centre back and we basically had to play a midfielder as the other one. If we'd had Aarons with 2 more years experience and one of any of the 4 available to partner Godfrey last time around we'd have done a lot better.

I don't subscribe to the theory that a back 4 of Aarons, Omobamidele, Kabak and Williams wouldn't work and I was a bit put out how patronising some know it alls were being on Twitter.

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Aarons, Kabak, Omobamidele and Williams have a combined total of 113 top flight appearances between them. Checking the total appearances of the regular defences of all Premier League clubs would be a painstaking and laborious task, but I'm guessing that most, if not all, Premier League clubs will have an individual with that number, never mind all of them in total. A defence with 113 top flight appearances between them in total would be considerably the lowest in the Premier League, I'm sure.

Obviously if you're old enough you're good enough and every individual and every situation should be judged on its own individual merits, but a defence of Aarons, Kabak, Omobamidele and Williams, at an average age of 20 years and 10 months, would undoubtedly be one of the youngest and most inexperienced defences the Pemier League has ever seen. 

I suspect Brentford would only beat it if you counted Ajer's SPL appearances as top flight.

I just don't get the argument that if Kabak and Omo look like our best two centre halves, they should be ignored in favour of Hanley (who only has a handful more PL appearances than Aarons) or Gibson because the average age or top flight appearances would be a bit higher with one of them in the defence.