Kabul to fall

[horsefly 4,310]

Just now, Van wink said:

Ouch....such a familiar style😉

Senile, a hypocrite, and truly pathetic! What sort of idiot insults others for making political points about a major political crisis and then proceeds to do precisely that himself.

[Van wink 2,994]

😊

[Van wink 2,994]

Meanwhile......terrible news from Kabul

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/26/afghanistan-live-news-updates-evacuation-refugees-taliban-kabul-airport-latest

[The Real Buh 3,477]

President

Kamala

Harris 

he’s done

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

The employment records - names and addresses, and details of bank transfers, for all US Embassy, US Military and US funded NGO's Afghan staff fell into the hands of the Taliban a few days ago according to an account from Oliver North, a gentleman who some will remember from the past.

[A Load of Squit 5,208]

6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Oliver North, a gentleman who some will remember from the past.

Who sold arms to Iran and gave the profits to the Nicaraguan Contras, solicited money from the Sultan of Brunei for the Contras but mistakenly sent it to a Swiss businessman.

Was eventually sacked by Reagan and then was convicted of his crimes.

And you described him as 'a gentleman from the past'. 🤣

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by A Load of Squit

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

An article from the past with familiar names. Trillion pounds of untapped resources in the Country,   China ready to muscle in.

https://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/magazine/entry/afghanistan_its_about_oil/

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

17 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Totally different situation though, state warfare was so civilised back then. There was very little risk of death and actual conflict, but Afghanistan is full of people with bombs who will strap them to anything including themselves to try and kill our troops.

Because we invaded their countries. For all the wrong but political reasons.

Can you imagine what Russia may have done if we had invaded Poland?

We are hypocritical to accuse nation states of terrorism when we invented much of it.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

So we are sharing intelligence with the Taliban to try and thwart IsisK.

Has foreign policy ever been more obscene? It has led to this.

Time to wind our noses in and concentrate on different things.

[Van wink 2,994]

39 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

So we are sharing intelligence with the Taliban to try and thwart IsisK.

Has foreign policy ever been more obscene? It has led to this.

Time to wind our noses in and concentrate on different things.

It’s all gung-ho with never a long term plan.

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Now that we have used women and puppies to ensure that our 'humanitarian efforts' are ongoing, the uncomfortably lying facts that Afghans are to join us around the world, have come to an instant stop with explosions forcing the US to destroy their stockpile of munitions at the airport, take casualties and stop all repatriation of Afghan staff.

Bad Isis-K has done it they say, but, it worked into US/UK/German political hands, whilst Australia gained a women's football team.

During our 20 year reign only one goal was achieved. The ban to grow opium poppies, Introduced by Mullah Omar in 2000, slowly morphed, as farmers realised that NATO troops did nothing to stop them growing it. As we leave the poverty rate under occupation has gone up by 62% , opium production has gone back up, and some 84% of global opium is grown in Afghanistan again.

If NATO would have destroyed crops for twenty years, the Taliban would have had no money for arms and munitions. Has NATO inadvertently armed its own enemy? justifying its petty existence in a region one could hardly describe as North Atlantic?

How does this lack of support and information exchange make NATO look? the one for all, and all for one motto is showing its age and is threadbare today.

I say it again, the best we could do now is not run away but keep a diplomatic corps at hand offering talks to help with reorganisation and financial help, before the neighbors offer it. The only alternative to such help, is to go home and concentrate on our own affairs.

[Surfer 1,547]

I’m sorry did I miss the statement that The US was closing its Embassy? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Now that we have used women and puppies to ensure that our 'humanitarian efforts' are ongoing, the uncomfortably lying facts that Afghans are to join us around the world, have come to an instant stop with explosions forcing the US to destroy their stockpile of munitions at the airport, take casualties and stop all repatriation of Afghan staff.

Bad Isis-K has done it they say, but, it worked into US/UK/German political hands, whilst Australia gained a women's football team.

During our 20 year reign only one goal was achieved. The ban to grow opium poppies, Introduced by Mullah Omar in 2000, slowly morphed, as farmers realised that NATO troops did nothing to stop them growing it. As we leave the poverty rate under occupation has gone up by 62% , opium production has gone back up, and some 84% of global opium is grown in Afghanistan again.

If NATO would have destroyed crops for twenty years, the Taliban would have had no money for arms and munitions. Has NATO inadvertently armed its own enemy? justifying its petty existence in a region one could hardly describe as North Atlantic?

How does this lack of support and information exchange make NATO look? the one for all, and all for one motto is showing its age and is threadbare today.

I say it again, the best we could do nowhich is w is not run away but keep a diplomatic corps at hand offering talks to help with reorganisation and financial help, before the neighbors offer it. The only alternative to such help, is to go home and concentrate on our own affairs.

The options are limited now by these actions.

Afghanistan either heads into civil war, which is likely, or the western world accepts not all countries share their values and just gets on with normal relations.

[Well b back 3,267]

It is now coming to light that many of those that died in the bombing yesterday were actually shot in the confusion by American soldiers.

[Van wink 2,994]

17 minutes ago, Well b back said:

It is now coming to light that many of those that died in the bombing yesterday were actually shot in the confusion by American soldiers.

Sad to hear 

[Van wink 2,994]

18 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The options are limited now by these actions.

Afghanistan either heads into civil war, which is likely, or the western world accepts not all countries share their values and just gets on with normal relations.

Have to say KG, having spent a lot of time in Turkey, there are some parts of the world that don't aspire to democratic government and feel more comfortable with a mildly "benelovent " dictatorship. Turkey is a classic example where the educated secular residents feel a strong affinity to the west and modern democratic values but they will always compete in the ballot box with those who are more comfortable living a rural life with limited interference and little education. To assume that all crave democracy is a massive and probably one of the gravest lessons we have never learned.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 23/08/2021 at 15:28, keelansgrandad said:

That is utter tosh and you know so.

Cheney dragged the US into the Afghan war and we followed on because all PM's love a war. And Blair loved the spotlight. "And tonight Matthew, I am going to sentence 455 UK servicemen and women to death."

 And when it finally dawned on these numpties that terrorism is as much home grown, they tried to back out.

And Trump thought the easiest way was to negotiate with what he thought was a beaten movement. Because, as we know, Afghanistan was something Trump was am expert on.

Yes, Biden could have stooped the withdrawal, but as he is a real politician, he thought it would be a real winner to make the date of withdrawal significant. Wrong.

But to say this Biden's mess alone is just more politicing on your behalf.

Everyone involve d should forget the politics and address the humanitarian problem.

The politics cannot be separated from the humanitarian aspect. After Trump made a deal with the Taliban there was not one single American casualty in the next eighteen months. Both sides kept to the deal that significantly reduced the level of threat against Westeners in Afghanistan. 

Biden made the decision to close the Bagram airbase in July which was an easily defendable military stronghold. It would have been far easier to process Afghans in Kabul then transport them in protected convoys to Bagram and being out the civilians in a controlled manner. 

Instead the.US army were.left to defend a civil airport within the capitals city easily accessible by suicide bombers mingling in the crowds leading to the inevitable humanitarian disaster that we have just witnessed. 

We did warn you that Biden did not have the capacity to be president and I can tell you now that neither does Harris. Unfortunately there is nothing within the US electoral system to allow for an early election so we are stuck with a lame duck presidency for the next three and a half years. How they will deal with the hostage taking of the thousands of western citizens trapped in Afghanistan is anyone's guess. When ISIS begins the beheadings lets not forget which president is responsible for this situation. 

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

17 hours ago, Van wink said:

Have to say KG, having spent a lot of time in Turkey, there are some parts of the world that don't aspire to democratic government and feel more comfortable with a mildly "benelovent " dictatorship. Turkey is a classic example where the educated secular residents feel a strong affinity to the west and modern democratic values but they will always compete in the ballot box with those who are more comfortable living a rural life with limited interference and little education. To assume that all crave democracy is a massive and probably one of the gravest lessons we have never learned.

It is always education that lifts countries out of the mire - and especially women's education!

Lest we get too smug women only got the vote here 100 or so years ago plus we had our own bloody religious wars until we realized to be tolerant of each others faiths (or none) - no more witch burning, heresy etc. 

Perversely - we now see even here in the UK a resentment by many against education and what by extension, might be called, informed democracy. It's a fast path backwards to the gutter which we are in danger of taking. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

26 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The politics cannot be separated from the humanitarian aspect. After Trump made a deal with the Taliban there was not one single American casualty in the next eighteen months. Both sides kept to the deal that significantly reduced the level of threat against Westeners in Afghanistan. 

Biden made the decision to close the Bagram airbase in July which was an easily defendable military stronghold. It would have been far easier to process Afghans in Kabul then transport them in protected convoys to Bagram and being out the civilians in a controlled manner. 

Instead the.US army were.left to defend a civil airport within the capitals city easily accessible by suicide bombers mingling in the crowds leading to the inevitable humanitarian disaster that we have just witnessed. 

We did warn you that Biden did not have the capacity to be president and I can tell you now that neither does Harris. Unfortunately there is nothing within the US electoral system to allow for an early election so we are stuck with a lame duck presidency for the next three and a half years. How they will deal with the hostage taking of the thousands of western citizens trapped in Afghanistan is anyone's guess. When ISIS begins the beheadings lets not forget which president is responsible for this situation. 

Whilst Biden has shown terrible weakness regarding this, you conveniently forget he was only carrying out US policy agreed by the previous President.

We will never know what would have happened had Trump remained and left in May as he intended to but do you really believe that it would have been any different.

To pull out is a disgrace, not only to the fallen but to the intention of ridding the country of terrorism. Believe me, I have just spent a week with my son and his family and he served front line in Afghanistan and what he told me makes what the Taliban do to people is equal to anything ISIS do.

[Foxy2600 305]

Datsun Cogs evacuated whilst Rome burns - fab use of taxpayers money - cue Animal Rights guerillla movement 

[Herman 9,819]

39 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

Datsun Cogs evacuated whilst Rome burns - fab use of taxpayers money - cue Animal Rights guerillla movement 

I think that that Pen Farthing fellow is going to get a bit of a hammering these next few days.

[Foxy2600 305]

9 minutes ago, Herman said:

I think that that Pen Farthing fellow is going to get a bit of a hammering these next few days.

Hopefully Sir Keir will bring it up as a matter of urgency - Blair’s Crusade ending in us rescuing dogs and abandoning fine upstanding democrats. 
In fairness, Fido and Kitty will be travelling in the Cargo Pits….like 4th Class - no free neck cushions or Moulton Browne face spray 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Was it taxpayers money though? I thought he said it was a private flight.

Still, it was a stupid stunt and gives me the creeps.

[Barbe bleu 832]

41 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Was it taxpayers money though? I thought he said it was a private flight.

Still, it was a stupid stunt and gives me the creeps.

The guy cares passionately for his animals.  I am not sure he saw it as a stunt and if no one is now in kabul that should and could have been in London I can't see the problem, even if it has created a twitter storm because of the 'optics'.

On top of which this guy risked and gave up a lot for these animals.  A lot, dare I say most, of the moaners  will have never done anything truly brave or more meaningful that contribute a fiver a month to a charity

Edited August 28, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

The guy cares passionately for his animals.  I am not sure he saw it as a stunt and if no one is now in kabul that should and could have been in London I can't see the problem, even if it has created a twitter storm because of the 'optics'.

On top of which this guy risked and gave up a lot for these animals.  A lot, dare I say most, of the moaners  will have never done anything truly brave or more meaningful that contribute a fiver a month to a charity

Are you serious? 

[Barbe bleu 832]

13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Are you serious? 

Yes.   You called the guy's attempts to fly the animals out a 'stunt'.  I see no reason to call it a stunt.  As far as I can tell the guy cares passionately about the animals and his care is what motivated him.

Perhaps you mean that the MOD prioritised the animals over people for the sake of headlines and it was they, not him that performed a PR stunt?  For this accusation to work you would have to demonstrate that the space a person would have taken was instead taken by  dog or cat  or that the ground crew were so distracted by the dogs that they could no longer function.  I am not sure there is evidence of either of these things.

As far as I can tell the charity boss had the best of motivations and displayed no little courage when he set up and then ran the charity and I am not sure why he is getting the twitter treatment.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 27/08/2021 at 16:18, keelansgrandad said:

The options are limited now by these actions.

Afghanistan either heads into civil war, which is likely, or the western world accepts not all countries share their values and just gets on with normal relations.

I disagree, civil war is the option of those who just run away, by proxy arming those who sit in the Panshjir valley on behalf of those who groomed them at Sandhurst and Kings College London, spouting for more war and asking for arms. And they are supported by those who sit here at home and amplify past fears.

Maybe now is the time to stop arm chair generals such as Lord Dannant being amplified in our MSM. This morning on Radio 4 he was heard to say ‘that it is going to be difficult to have a relationship with the Taliban if there are Human rights violations happening’.

Well me ol’ Lordy doddery, if you would have said this 20 years ago when you were a export of arms to Saudi Arabia abiding serving soldier of rank, knowing full well that these arms we were peddling to this aweful regime are going to be used against yemeni civilians and or to prop up Bahrains dictators and human rights abusers, then we might have heard you, but now? whilst sitting safe and pretty in north Norfolk.

Followed by a discussion of the term ‘woke’ and why it engages the media slaves with ample opportunities to snipe at this that and the other.
Well, if the media would actually sound different, not copy each others stories and headlines for fear of being called behind the times and ‘failing to print’ what others are regurgitating, if the media would reject those who have been groomed by security services to pay homage to this that and the other Government next on the blog, then this debate about woke people would not be necessarry and papers would sound somewhat original running their own stories, regardless of what others print. It would also make for much interest and greater diversity to those who still buy these same sounding rags could see a plethora of different stories.
Mind, that would mean to re invent investigative journalism and that would mean that they stick their fingers into pie’s that are hot and not yet done, a dangerous thing in the view of a controlling Government,

You have retired Lord Dannant, relax boar.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

Yes.   You called the guy's attempts to fly the animals out a 'stunt'.  I see no reason to call it a stunt.  As far as I can tell the guy cares passionately about the animals and his care is what motivated him.

Perhaps you mean that the MOD prioritised the animals over people for the sake of headlines and it was they, not him that performed a PR stunt?  For this accusation to work you would have to demonstrate that the space a person would have taken was instead taken by  dog or cat  or that the ground crew were so distracted by the dogs that they could no longer function.  I am not sure there is evidence of either of these things.

As far as I can tell the charity boss had the best of motivations and displayed no little courage when he set up and then ran the charity and I am not sure why he is getting the twitter treatment.

He managed to plug his cause and our willing MSM amplified this narrative as they knew full well that puppies and animals will work, that people here will sympathize with his cause.

What they should write about is the announcement of an amnesty to all whofought against the Taliban and served the oppressing NATO flapping about for 20 years.

We presided over a rise in opium production and, during our occupation, a 62% rise in poverty. Afghanistan needs diplomacy, financial funds and help with restructuring its economy, not more proxy wars and or arms.

Edited August 29, 2021 by nevermind, neoliberalism has had it

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

Yes.   You called the guy's attempts to fly the animals out a 'stunt'.  I see no reason to call it a stunt.  As far as I can tell the guy cares passionately about the animals and his care is what motivated him.

Perhaps you mean that the MOD prioritised the animals over people for the sake of headlines and it was they, not him that performed a PR stunt?  For this accusation to work you would have to demonstrate that the space a person would have taken was instead taken by  dog or cat  or that the ground crew were so distracted by the dogs that they could no longer function.  I am not sure there is evidence of either of these things.

As far as I can tell the charity boss had the best of motivations and displayed no little courage when he set up and then ran the charity and I am not sure why he is getting the twitter treatment.

I believe he had chartered a private flight. So why not try to take out a few Afghans rather than a dogs and cats?

I have dog so its not that I am anti but I just believe he got his priorities wrong and then used the media to try and push a slot at the airport.

 

[Surfer 1,547]

Utter chaos eh? 😂 thanks goodness for adults in the room.

p.s. many RWNJ's seem upset that the latest terrorist attack was foiled by the US Army this morning. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Surfer