The tried-and-tested two-team scenario

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

Working on the proviso of 22 players, two for each position, the way our squad is balanced at the moment looks more like a back four to me. Using the 4-2-3-1 generally favoured by Farke:

Krul
Aarons Hanley Gibson Giannoulis
Gilmour Lees-Melou
Rashica Dowell Cantwell
Pukki

Gunn
Mumba Zimmermann Omobamidele Placheta
Rupp Sorensen
Hernandez McLean Idah
Hugill

That's everyone who's been given a squad number with the exception of Byram and McGovern. Of those 24 players with squad numbers, I think I'm right in saying that only 10 are non-homegrown, meaning we still have plenty of latitude for foreign signings. I also think Aarons, Gilmour, Mumba, Omobamidele and Idah don't need to be registered in the 25-man squad as they fit the youth criteria (can anyone confirm?). That would mean we can still (theoretically at least!) buy six 'overage' and non-homegrown players.

So I guess my question is: to improve these 'A' and 'B' teams, what positions still need strengthening? Byram would obviously be a better backup LB than Placheta, but I'm not banking on him being fit. If we want to play with three at the back then Placheta as a wing-back is less of a stretch, but in that eventuality we'd definitely need another centre back.

Assuming we'd play the 3-4-2-1 we trialled at Lynn, our current squad would probably line up something like this:

Krul
Sorensen Hanley Gibson
Aarons Lees-Melou Gilmour Giannoulis
Rashica Cantwell
Pukki

Gunn
Omobamidele Zimmermann Byram
Mumba McLean Rupp Placheta
Dowell Idah
Hugill

The inclusion of Byram would push Onel out for the purposes of this squad, but it's not an exact science. In terms of what we need, I would prioritise things thus.

If we're planning on predominantly utilising a back three, I'd like another CB who's better than Zimmermann to compete with Sorensen/Omo for the third spot, and one more versatile attacking player.

If we're planning on predominantly utilising a back four, I'd be after another full-back (ideally left-footed) and the same versatile attacker.

Obviously I'd welcome further signings/strengthening, but those would be the key areas to bolster in my opinion. I am working on the proviso that neither Aarons nor Cantwell will leave; should either of them go at this juncture, I'd expect a bigger fee than we received for Emi, and a quick and positive response in the transfer market.

[Nuff Said 5,973]

That second team looks good enough to make a decent fist of a season in the Championship to me.

[TheGunnShow 7,379]

Rupp and McLean is a very decent centre-midfield pairing. Lungi's the most interesting story for me - where's he going to end up? I really want to see him alongside Gilmour in ostensibly his best position to see how he copes as tbh, both he and Gilmour have that composure in possession that's difficult to get in many - and is very useful in that deeper midfield position.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Gilmour and Lungi will get quite as many turnovers as Skipp and McLean, but I can easily see both being better getting the ball forward and ease the pressure on us that way.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

5 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

That second team looks good enough to make a decent fist of a season in the Championship to me.

We should enter the second team into the Championship this season, just in case the first team get relegated then the second team will get us promoted again this season ready for the start of next season, then people can stop mentioning the word yo-yo

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

9 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

We should enter the second team into the Championship this season, just in case the first team get relegated then the second team will get us promoted again this season ready for the start of next season, then people can stop mentioning the word yo-yo

Wouldn't that be a double yo-yo?

[GenerationA47 864]

6 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Wouldn't that be a double yo-yo?

Correct, it would indeed be a Yo-yo-Yo-yo

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

This was all really good and a very comprehensive view of the squad @Feedthewolf. 

I agree entirely the points you make. I think if all the new players adjust quickly AND we remain injury free AND players who need to step up, do (eg Dowell) we stand a good chance of having a reasonable season.

The chances of us doing all of that would probably be similar to a lottery win though. 

We really do need some solid additions.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

35 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Wouldn't that be a double yo-yo?

Ha ha I think GA47 has nailed it Wolfie! 😂

[All the Germans 1,239]

As you point out, I see glaring deficiencies at Full back (Placheta cannot, under any circumstance start a game at full back for us), Centre back (Sorensen is not a centre back) but also Striker (Hugill is simply not good).

I think at centre back and full back we can cope with an injury but we're still only a Pukki injury away from disaster. It's a conundrum, and one that I do not know hot to rectify; how do you get a player that is capable to step in for Pukki but also be willing to play backup? I'm discounting buying someone to start ahead of Pukki, as we definitely can't afford that.

[Yobocop 1,444]

48 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

As you point out, I see glaring deficiencies at Full back (Placheta cannot, under any circumstance start a game at full back for us), Centre back (Sorensen is not a centre back) but also Striker (Hugill is simply not good).

I think at centre back and full back we can cope with an injury but we're still only a Pukki injury away from disaster. It's a conundrum, and one that I do not know hot to rectify; how do you get a player that is capable to step in for Pukki but also be willing to play backup? I'm discounting buying someone to start ahead of Pukki, as we definitely can't afford that.

Mainly as man is a winger 

[All the Germans 1,239]

20 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

Mainly as man is a winger 

 

5 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

....

Gunn
Mumba Zimmermann Omobamidele Placheta
Rupp Sorensen
Hernandez McLean Idah
Hugill

....

 

[Yobocop 1,444]

42 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

 

 

A winger in real life you turnip 

[king canary 8,763]

13 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Working on the proviso of 22 players, two for each position, the way our squad is balanced at the moment looks more like a back four to me. Using the 4-2-3-1 generally favoured by Farke:

Krul
Aarons Hanley Gibson Giannoulis
Gilmour Lees-Melou
Rashica Dowell Cantwell
Pukki

Gunn
Mumba Zimmermann Omobamidele Placheta
Rupp Sorensen
Hernandez McLean Idah
Hugill

That's everyone who's been given a squad number with the exception of Byram and McGovern. Of those 24 players with squad numbers, I think I'm right in saying that only 10 are non-homegrown, meaning we still have plenty of latitude for foreign signings. I also think Aarons, Gilmour, Mumba, Omobamidele and Idah don't need to be registered in the 25-man squad as they fit the youth criteria (can anyone confirm?). That would mean we can still (theoretically at least!) buy six 'overage' and non-homegrown players.

So I guess my question is: to improve these 'A' and 'B' teams, what positions still need strengthening? Byram would obviously be a better backup LB than Placheta, but I'm not banking on him being fit. If we want to play with three at the back then Placheta as a wing-back is less of a stretch, but in that eventuality we'd definitely need another centre back.

Assuming we'd play the 3-4-2-1 we trialled at Lynn, our current squad would probably line up something like this:

Krul
Sorensen Hanley Gibson
Aarons Lees-Melou Gilmour Giannoulis
Rashica Cantwell
Pukki

Gunn
Omobamidele Zimmermann Byram
Mumba McLean Rupp Placheta
Dowell Idah
Hugill

The inclusion of Byram would push Onel out for the purposes of this squad, but it's not an exact science. In terms of what we need, I would prioritise things thus.

If we're planning on predominantly utilising a back three, I'd like another CB who's better than Zimmermann to compete with Sorensen/Omo for the third spot, and one more versatile attacking player.

If we're planning on predominantly utilising a back four, I'd be after another full-back (ideally left-footed) and the same versatile attacker.

Obviously I'd welcome further signings/strengthening, but those would be the key areas to bolster in my opinion. I am working on the proviso that neither Aarons nor Cantwell will leave; should either of them go at this juncture, I'd expect a bigger fee than we received for Emi, and a quick and positive response in the transfer market.

The first team has lots of question marks for me- central defence has question marks both on fitness and ability, the central midfield feels lightweight, Rashica is a complete unknown and I'm not totally convinced on Dowell's ability to step up.

The second team fills me with dread. That defence is made up of players who either aren't good enough at this level or have extremely limited experience in first team football. Hernandez and Idah providing creativity for Hugill feels like a recipe for maybe one goal every 10 games. Sorenson is a big question mark and Rupp is a bit part player at this level in my opinion.

I'm honestly a bit shocked we're this close to the start of the season and the squad looks this weak.

[Capt. Pants 5,015]

10 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

That second team looks good enough to make a decent fist of a season in the Championship to me.

That's the problem though. 

[Nuff Said 5,973]

3 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

That's the problem though. 

What? That we don’t have a second team capable of staying up in the PL? Let’s sort out the first team first.

[king canary 8,763]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

What? That we don’t have a second team capable of staying up in the PL? Let’s sort out the first team first.

I think the problem in my view is we really lack depth. Take a look at that second XI- is there anyone there you'd fancy bringing on when 1-0 down to try and change a game? Hernandez maybe but he's hugely hit and miss. Apart from that I don't really see anyone. 

[Fuzzar 1,861]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think the problem in my view is we really lack depth. Take a look at that second XI- is there anyone there you'd fancy bringing on when 1-0 down to try and change a game? Hernandez maybe but he's hugely hit and miss. Apart from that I don't really see anyone. 

I could make a case for both Idah and Dowell. I think Hugill will be moved on and the others would be capable deputies if needed.

[AJ 1,359]

Hugill won't be going anywhere, he's a brute to close the game out and win some fouls, or throw on for the last ten as a battering ram and pep the box with crosses. He's a handy player to have and was unlucky to not really get a good run last season, but he still did a good job and scored some important goals. He's also massive in the dressing room

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

37 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm honestly a bit shocked we're this close to the start of the season and the squad looks this weak.

I think its fair to say that, with the loss of Buendia and Skipp (obviously losing Skipp was no fault of our own), we are still some way away from 'significantly improving' on the squad from last year. I find it hard to see any of our new signings slotting in and becoming key players overnight in the same way those two would've been - though I bloody hope they do. I think it is more likely that we see current players such as Cantwell, McLean, Hanley / Gibson stepping up. 

Definitely expecting a busy few weeks from now until the end of the window. But if we can't get through the door who we have been working on and end up having to panic buy to some extent, I wonder if maybe Webber might hold some regrets over the approach to the Buendia sale? Hopefully it doesn't come to that, however I am sure that Webber would've expected us to have been far ahead of where we are right now in terms on incomings, so we're definitely cutting it fine!

Whatever happens from now to the end of the window, we do look like we are going to be under strength for our first couple of games in terms of the final squad. Guess its fortunate in a way that we've got nothing to lose in our first few games... 

[king canary 8,763]

1 minute ago, Fuzzar said:

I could make a case for both Idah and Dowell. I think Hugill will be moved on and the others would be capable deputies if needed.

Dowell was in the first XI listed so not sure how you'd make a case there. 

I just don't the others as capable deputies. There is so much unknown about those on the bench.

Mumba, Idah and Omobamidele each have under 900 minutes of first team football (so less than 10 games total). Sorenson's experience in England is almost entirely filling in a left back. Placheta is listed as our back up left back despite spending most of his career as a winger (and not looking great at that last season). Zimmerman is a walking injury right now and struggled in our last Premier League campaign. 

When I look at that squad I see too many that I'd pretty confidently say wouldn't make the 25 man squad of anyone else in this division. 

[Fuzzar 1,861]

34 minutes ago, king canary said:

Dowell was in the first XI listed so not sure how you'd make a case there. 

I just don't the others as capable deputies. There is so much unknown about those on the bench.

Mumba, Idah and Omobamidele each have under 900 minutes of first team football (so less than 10 games total). Sorenson's experience in England is almost entirely filling in a left back. Placheta is listed as our back up left back despite spending most of his career as a winger (and not looking great at that last season). Zimmerman is a walking injury right now and struggled in our last Premier League campaign. 

When I look at that squad I see too many that I'd pretty confidently say wouldn't make the 25 man squad of anyone else in this division. 

Sorry King, he's in the second XI in the 3-4-2-1 line up but either way I think he'll be good enough. 

Mumba, Idah and Omo are inexperienced but Farke has enough credit in the bank for me to trust his judgement as to their readiness. Zimmermann is, I agree, ideally a fifth choice player, but I think McLean, Rupp and Sorensen can all step up this season. 

[Capt. Pants 5,015]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

What? That we don’t have a second team capable of staying up in the PL? Let’s sort out the first team first.

Quite. We're still the best part of a month away before the window closes. I still think there's 2 or 3 to come in yet which will create real competition for places. Nearly, but not quite there yet.

 

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,627]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

The first team has lots of question marks for me- central defence has question marks both on fitness and ability, the central midfield feels lightweight, Rashica is a complete unknown and I'm not totally convinced on Dowell's ability to step up.

 

56 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think the problem in my view is we really lack depth. Take a look at that second XI- is there anyone there you'd fancy bringing on when 1-0 down to try and change a game? Hernandez maybe but he's hugely hit and miss. Apart from that I don't really see anyone. 

The longer the summer goes on, the more I'm starting to think this too. There are still several areas which need to be strengthened if we want to survive. The issue regarding depth though is less concerning, because if we strengthen the first XI then the second XI automatically becomes stronger by default.

Personally, I'd like to see us strengthen with a centre back, defensive midfielder, winger and striker, although bringing in four players to improve our first XI would probably go beyond our budget (even if one was on loan) so I'd understand if we didn't get all four. I'd like to think we'd be able to sign three quality players though, as our net spend is still around -£10-12m thanks to the sale of Buendia.

Hanley and Gibson are okay, but there isn't much else. I'm a huge fan of Omobamidele but he's still very inexperienced (Aarons, Lewis, Godfrey and Cantwell all had far more first team football under their belt going into 2019/20) and I'm not convinced Zimmermann can be relied on as a Premier League starter. 

Gilmour will surely start, but I'd like a physical, Premier League defensive midfielder alongside him. McLean, Rupp and Sorensen are all decent options to have in the squad, but none of them are out-and-out defensive midfielders and are any of them genuine Premier League regular starters? I'd say they're all Premier League squad players.

On the wings, only Rashica and Cantwell can be relied upon. Hernandez has struggled with form and fitness over the last 12 months but could be an impact player if he has a good preseason and gets fit, and Placheta isn't good enough. I'd like a new option here, maybe a Harvey Elliott or Amad Diallo on loan.

In attack, we all know what Pukki can do, but Hugill is no more than third choice and I'd be reluctant to stunt Idah's growth by having him second fiddle to Pukki. Idah is clearly improving, but we don't know if he's ready to start regularly in the Premier League and he needs regular games to develop properly. I can't see him getting those here unless Pukki gets injured, and can we gamble Idah's future on an injury to Pukki? I'd rather loan out Idah for a 40-game season in the Championship and then bring in someone more 'ready'.

We still have time so I'm not panicking yet, but there's still a lot of work to do.