Sinani and Sitti

[Hoolahoop14 124]

Was interested to read in this article that Danel Sinani and Melvin Sitti are also training with the Andy Hughes gang of outcasts (Klose, Trybull and up until fairly recently Drmic). 

 

I appreciate that Sinani is 24 now and perhaps no longer has youth on his side (at least in the football world), but I was really hoping he was going to make it with us, would've been a nice fairytale story of sorts. Admittedly, I'm sure the step up in quality from the top tier in Luxembourg to the top two tiers in England is quite big to say the least, so I'm not too surprised it hasn't worked out.

 

Sitti is a more curious one for me, as he's only 21 and therefore surely still ripe for the U23's? The fact he's training with Hughes would suggest to me that we're looking to offload him. Anyone know why this might be? I was always under the impression that the club rated him very highly.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Hoolahoop14

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

Could be that are looking to loan them out and don’t see a point in training with the 1st team, if there are no plans for them

[KeiranShikari 1,470]

I get the feeling Sitti never impressed Farke and Sinani was signed with an eye on a small profit in a year or two's time.

[HazzaJet 256]

Although Sinani’s already 24 I would be surprised to see him go as we only signed him last summer. At only 21 I would think that Sitti would also be kept.

Like Dr GT has said I think it’s because they want to send them out on loan. Can’t see Sinani being in the first team this season, thought he would go on loan to a Championship team to get him ready to replace someone in the possibility of relegation - that’s the whole reason why McCallum’s gone to get another season of Championship experience, Soto to the B team of a C/EL club etc. 

[KiwiScot 1,489]

Surprised Klose is an outcast. Is it bad for the 1st team to have these players around

[chicken 2,656]

24 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Surprised Klose is an outcast. Is it bad for the 1st team to have these players around

I suspect that is more to do with both him and the club expecting/hoping for him not to be here this season. I'm guessing that covid put paid to any plans Basel may have had to take up the option to buy him. It might be that they had planned that if things returned to normal they would get him as they played him enough to suggest they rate him.

He clearly would have gone there too. May also be a wages thing. But I think it's fair to say that we have only seen the best of him for short periods. We'll never forget the goal against the scum though, with Hanley's pace and cross and his lurking, lurching, towering header!!!

He's past his best now though, as much of a great character he is. Wouldn't be surprised to see him back on loan to Basel some how again.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,617]

Sinani and Sitti both struggled to make an impact in a poor team in the Belgium top flight. Sitti in particular didn’t make one appearance while on loan (although did have some injury worries). 

Both these signings were punts by Norwich at relatively low cost. The loan deal last season alone meant Norwich have made a profit on Sinani. 

I would be massively surprised if either of them ever made a appearance for Norwich. I suspect they’ll both go on loan this season, but if someone made a permanent offer I reckon Norwich would jump at the chance also. 

[king canary 7,681]

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Sinani and Sitti both struggled to make an impact in a poor team in the Belgium top flight. Sitti in particular didn’t make one appearance while on loan (although did have some injury worries). 

Both these signings were punts by Norwich at relatively low cost. The loan deal last season alone meant Norwich have made a profit on Sinani. 

I would be massively surprised if either of them ever made a appearance for Norwich. I suspect they’ll both go on loan this season, but if someone made a permanent offer I reckon Norwich would jump at the chance also. 

Modern football is really quite grim in some aspects.

[Fuzzar 1,705]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

Modern football is really quite grim in some aspects.

Or you could argue they at least had a sniff of elite football, rather than bumping around the lower leagues for perhaps the entirety of their career. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,617]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Modern football is really quite grim in some aspects.

Yes and no.

Trading players like cattle can be seen as grim - but those players are well paid and as long as the club is honest with them then I don't see a huge issue especially as with Norwich they will have a chance of progressing if they are good enough. What feels a bit grimer is when Man City bring in players that they know will never be good enough, but by moving them around their group of clubs it helps spread money around without breaking FFP rules. The flip side of course being those players likely get pay rises, the ability to use world class facilities and a reputational boost. Obviously no one can force a player to do something they don't want to.

However, I don't like it when clubs freeze players out as it damages their career, often through no fault of the player. 

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

Just now, Fuzzar said:

Or you could argue they at least had a sniff of elite football, rather than bumping around the lower leagues for perhaps the entirety of their career. 

Exactly this. The whole playing ethos with us is to provide a doorway to a higher level. And if you can't make our highest level, our first team, then we will try to get you at a level nearer for you if you fall short.

[king canary 7,681]

Just now, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Yes and no.

Trading players like cattle can be seen as grim - but those players are well paid and as long as the club is honest with them then I don't see a huge issue especially as with Norwich they will have a chance of progressing if they are good enough. What feels a bit grimer is when Man City bring in players that they know will never be good enough, but by moving them around their group of clubs it helps spread money around without breaking FFP rules. The flip side of course being those players likely get pay rises, the ability to use world class facilities and a reputational boost. Obviously no one can force a player to do something they don't want to.

However, I don't like it when clubs freeze players out as it damages their career, often through no fault of the player. 

Yeah, its a personal thing but for me it's not what football should be about. Especially with the exploitation of the loan market. You end up with situations like certain Chelsea players who they buy for very little, loan out with a large portion of their wages covered and then sell for a large profit- meaning the 'parent club' has done **** all to develop the player but still reap the rewards.

[Canarywary 110]

I'd really like to see them get a decent loan this season and see where that leaves them/us. I was quite intrigued when we signed them and would like to at least get a look at what they can do with some game time, ideally in the Champ.

Like King Canary it does sometimes leave me feeling uncomfortable the way these things work out. If I remember correctly, both players seemed really excited and hopeful of joining a top 26 English team like us, but have had so little chance, partly through injury it seems.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Canarywary

[curious yellow 184]

15 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

 

However, I don't like it when clubs freeze players out as it damages their career, often through no fault of the player. 

Do you think this was the case with Trybull/Leitner and/or Drmic? 

Sinani said that the reason he was sent on loan was because other players hadn't moved on. Sitti looks a quality player

 

We seem to have created a twilight team with its own manager (Adams) and now it's own coach. Others include Oxborough, Thompson, Bushiri and Fitzpatrick. Some of these looked really promising prospects now their futures depend on how other teams treat them. 

Omotoye looked great but his loan has done him no good. It is sad to think that we look on a young player as a punt rather than a prospect. I cannot imagine the system is profitable with all the players involved, the agents fees, our contribution to wages of the players we have loaned out. 

We have just agreed a compensation fee for Gibbs and have beaten top clubs for his signature, it would be disappointing in a couple of years to see this deal written of as a punt, because of a bad loan. We have signed some excellent midfield talent with Riley and Clarke. 

Interesting to see that less than 2 years ago, Daniel Adshead played for the England U19s v Greece and, watched by Southgate, scored the opening goal. Bali Mumba was playing right back and after 60 minutes Adshead was replaced by Buyako Saka. Let's hope our young prospects are given a great chance to develop as Saka has

 

[Krul Mistress 36]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Modern football is really quite grim in some aspects.

Marco van Ginkel left Chelsea this summer. The dude is nearly due a testimonial! Two league appearances in eight seasons.

[Midlands Yellow 4,112]

I was hoping this was a new episode of Great Crimes and Trials. 
 

This is a good one for those interested. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Midlands Yellow

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

34 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

Do you think this was the case with Trybull/Leitner and/or Drmic? 

Sinani said that the reason he was sent on loan was because other players hadn't moved on. Sitti looks a quality player

 

We seem to have created a twilight team with its own manager (Adams) and now it's own coach. Others include Oxborough, Thompson, Bushiri and Fitzpatrick. Some of these looked really promising prospects now their futures depend on how other teams treat them. 

Omotoye looked great but his loan has done him no good. It is sad to think that we look on a young player as a punt rather than a prospect. I cannot imagine the system is profitable with all the players involved, the agents fees, our contribution to wages of the players we have loaned out. 

We have just agreed a compensation fee for Gibbs and have beaten top clubs for his signature, it would be disappointing in a couple of years to see this deal written of as a punt, because of a bad loan. We have signed some excellent midfield talent with Riley and Clarke. 

Interesting to see that less than 2 years ago, Daniel Adshead played for the England U19s v Greece and, watched by Southgate, scored the opening goal. Bali Mumba was playing right back and after 60 minutes Adshead was replaced by Buyako Saka. Let's hope our young prospects are given a great chance to develop as Saka has

 

By definition, young players are punts/prospects. Being a prospect is precisely that - you don't know how they will pan out for sure. Oxborough suffered with a really bad injury.  Adshead still looks physically a bit lacking (the physical side is something that never develops evenly amongst younger players) so whilst comparisons with Saka are interesting, they're not always apposite.

To put it in perspective, Garry Nelson wrote a very good book called Left Foot in the Grave showing his time as a player-coach at Torquay United. 99% of all youngsters who turn up for trials don't even get to sign a contract with a professional club. We're looking for players who are good enough to represent a team in the top 20-26 in England. If we assume every team has a squad of 50 players including reserves, you're essentially looking for a single player in a top 1,300.

By definition, most will fall a little short. So, it's up to us to some extent to maximise what we can both in terms of their talent and also in helping them continue in their careers if they do. Prime example, Carlton Morris at Barnsley.

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

31 minutes ago, Krul Mistress said:

Marco van Ginkel left Chelsea this summer. The dude is nearly due a testimonial! Two league appearances in eight seasons.

The annoying thing was, I remember we were after him 

[pete 320]

Loan Fees? really a little sceptical here, a contribution to salary perhaps.