Emi

[ncfcstar 295]

2 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Helps that Brentford's sporting director isn't saying they'll listen to offers of £xx. That's why.

And you'd be moaning if Webber was completely silent too.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

Again, can people point me to the Buendia has said he is unhappy article? If we are happy making suggestions up then, what if he is happy in the City (new kid, wife happy) wants to stay but is being forced out as City have to fill the £30m covid hole (wasn't it £15m..oh well).

Expecting the "he is being a bad unfluence" line with no evidence soon.

No club on promotion sells their MAIN asset. You don't replace 15 goals, 17 assists, the work rate ..look at his tackling stats! So we are proposing starting a new campaign in the toughest league with no Skipp (2nd best player last year for me) and no Emi in midfield (plus a recovering Mclean).

Ok what could possibly go wrong.

[hogesar 9,776]

10 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Helps that Brentford's sporting director isn't saying they'll listen to offers of £xx. That's why.

That's only because Stuarts been asked about it because....there's been lots of interest in Emi and the media stories to go with it.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

6 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

And you'd be moaning if Webber was completely silent 

No. Quite happy for Webber to get on with his job rather than articles in the BBC saying we won't spend big. I already know that.

Seems your happy at losing a player of Emi's capability.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

That's only because Stuarts been asked about it because....there's been lots of interest in Emi and the media stories to go with it.

Webber lowered the price last week in case you missed it... quess we need that cash. Doesn't seem very "planned".

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

I understand the reasons to sell. Doesn’t mean I have to like it. I don’t like being the club that sells its best player upon promotion. By the way, the £40m we get for Emi pails in comparison to the potential money earned by staying in the EPL. Surely we keep him another year, sell him then whether staying up (in which case we’ll have more money to replace and strengthen from TV etc) or relegated (in which case he’ll want to stay in the EPL).

[ncfcstar 295]

11 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

No. Quite happy for Webber to get on with his job rather than articles in the BBC saying we won't spend big. I already know that.

Seems your happy at losing a player of Emi's capability.

The BBC article was just a rehash of the comments he'd made to the club website, pinkun and Michael Bailey.  The 'lowering' of the price is also misquoted from things he said about Aarons, not Buendia.

Of course I wouldn't be happy to lose Emi, but lets be honest if Arsenal are stumping up £40m and he wants to go there then there isn't much we can do is there?  It might be funny to think Arsenal are a 'mid table' club at the moment, but they're are a massive club, regularly win silverware and usually compete in Europe.

Edited June 4, 2021 by ncfcstar

[ncfcstar 295]

5 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I understand the reasons to sell. Doesn’t mean I have to like it. I don’t like being the club that sells its best player upon promotion. By the way, the £40m we get for Emi pails in comparison to the potential money earned by staying in the EPL. Surely we keep him another year, sell him then whether staying up (in which case we’ll have more money to replace and strengthen from TV etc) or relegated (in which case he’ll want to stay in the EPL).

In my opinion Webber probably thinks now is the prime time to sell Buendia.  There are too many risk factors financially in allowing him to stay another season.  If we stay up then of course the gamble pays off, but if we are relegated or Buendia has a poor season then we wont be seeing offers of £40m next summer.

Edited June 4, 2021 by ncfcstar

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Only because we’ve made it impossible. We’ve imposed a ceiling on ourselves, we’ve encouraged bids by saying every player is available for the right price. Now we seem to have this new narrative amongst the fan base that we can’t hold the players back in their careers which makes us little more than a modern day version of Crewe under Gradi (hopefully without the sex offenders). 
 

Heaven forbid a player might actually have realistic aspirations of winning something with us! 

It seems these days that a certain group, would rather be seen as a lovely little club that is nice to people and a stepping stone to the likes of Leicester / Wolves (when we went away every game, they were on a par with us...) rather than us trying to winning a trophy and competing at the highest level. Its also strange how snarky and insulting those very people get when you question or disagree with the direction of the club despite applauding the efforts of the owners in delivering a solid platform on which to grow. Seems they are happy with out lot. Not me. 

Top 26 is not a mission statement anyone serious about sport has on their wall. 

Oh well time to move on... looking forward to the usual insults from the same people.

[Canarywary 110]

When we sold Maddison I thought we were done for, but the following season showed how much the rest of the squad had been relying on him, and when he went they all had to step up - plus we had to replace him (Emi), so I can only hope a similar sort thing can happen again if Emi does go.

[Midlands Yellow 4,112]

4 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

It seems these days that a certain group, would rather be seen as a lovely little club that is nice to people and a stepping stone to the likes of Leicester / Wolves (when we went away every game, they were on a par with us...) rather than us trying to winning a trophy and competing at the highest level. Its also strange how snarky and insulting those very people get when you question or disagree with the direction of the club despite applauding the efforts of the owners in delivering a solid platform on which to grow. Seems they are happy with out lot. Not me. 

Top 26 is not a mission statement anyone serious about sport has on their wall. 

Oh well time to move on... looking forward to the usual insults from the same people.

Your bang on the money but the usual suspects will beg to differ. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Midlands Yellow

[duke63 545]

15 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

No. Quite happy for Webber to get on with his job rather than articles in the BBC saying we won't spend big. I already know that.

Seems your happy at losing a player of Emi's capability.

No one is happy about it and its obvious we don't want to sell but the players always hold all the cards.

[hogesar 9,776]

15 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Webber lowered the price last week in case you missed it... quess we need that cash. Doesn't seem very "planned".

No he didn't. 

[Jim Smith 2,349]

2 minutes ago, duke63 said:

No one is happy about it and its obvious we don't want to sell but the players always hold all the cards.

I must have imagined Farke leaving out Buendia and him then coming back and playing a blinder for the whole season then? He’s under contract til 2025 isn’t he?

[Nuff Said 5,183]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Because it isn't true. Plenty of clubs turn down bids are persuade players to stay.

Not sure your point holds up. We turned down bids for Max and Jamal last season because they weren’t right for us or the club. If we get a bid for Emi that he wants to follow up and matches our minimum valuation (rather than £30 million from Villa) we will *have* to let him go, otherwise:

1) we will have an unhappy player on our hands who won’t play to his previous standards and is likely to disrupt the rest of the squad

2) we will screw up our pitch to promising future signings that if they perform, we can provide them a great pathway to the biggest clubs and international football

 

I think we all believe Emi’s value to the team is greater than £40 million, and hope that even if that was offered, the club would still try and persuade him to stay. We just recognise the realities of that situation *if* it occurs.

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

Just now, Jim Smith said:

I must have imagined Farke leaving out Buendia and him then coming back and playing a blinder for the whole season then? He’s under contract til 2025 isn’t he?

Which promptly increased his value and profile to the point where he's got an Argentina call-up.

[ncfcstar 295]

8 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

It seems these days that a certain group, would rather be seen as a lovely little club that is nice to people and a stepping stone to the likes of Leicester / Wolves (when we went away every game, they were on a par with us...) rather than us trying to winning a trophy and competing at the highest level. Its also strange how snarky and insulting those very people get when you question or disagree with the direction of the club despite applauding the efforts of the owners in delivering a solid platform on which to grow. Seems they are happy with out lot. Not me. 

Top 26 is not a mission statement anyone serious about sport has on their wall. 

Oh well time to move on... looking forward to the usual insults from the same people.

Actually the mission statement is to become an 'established Premier League club'.

I'd love to live in a world where we can financially compete with Leicester and Wolves, but we can't because they have EXTREMELY rich owners.  Ultimately we do not, and we are reliant on both staying in the PL and selling players to do that.  If we get £40m for Emi, and replace him with a few players who keep us established in the Premier League so we can then push on to winning a cup or two what is wrong with that?

[duke63 545]

Just now, Jim Smith said:

I must have imagined Farke leaving out Buendia and him then coming back and playing a blinder for the whole season then? He’s under contract til 2025 isn’t he?

But you and I are not party to what was said to Emi to get him back on track.

If he was told 'stay with us, get us promoted and then we will listen to offers', then its reasonable for him to expect that to still be the case.

We all thought selling Maddsion would see us relegated the next year and look what happened.

[Midlands Yellow 4,112]

It looks like everyone has a day off work to continue the discussion, this could run. 

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

Just now, Midlands Yellow said:

It looks like everyone has a day off work to continue the discussion, this could run. 

Or we're all working from home. 😉

[Nuff Said 5,183]

33 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Helps that Brentford's sporting director isn't saying they'll listen to offers of £xx. That's why.

Again, can you provide a quote of Webber saying “we will listen to offers of £30 million for Emi”? All he said is if we sell any of our best players, there’s a high minimum bar that offers need to *start* at.

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

16 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I understand the reasons to sell. Doesn’t mean I have to like it. I don’t like being the club that sells its best player upon promotion. By the way, the £40m we get for Emi pails in comparison to the potential money earned by staying in the EPL. Surely we keep him another year, sell him then whether staying up (in which case we’ll have more money to replace and strengthen from TV etc) or relegated (in which case he’ll want to stay in the EPL).

This... selling for £40m (it won't even be that) seriously puts at risk any hope of getting £178m staying in the league..

[Midlands Yellow 4,112]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Or we're all working from home. 😉

Fair point, just got 10 Emi windows open and dropped whilst slogging away. 

[king canary 7,681]

6 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Not sure your point holds up. We turned down bids for Max and Jamal last season because they weren’t right for us or the club. If we get a bid for Emi that he wants to follow up and matches our minimum valuation (rather than £30 million from Villa) we will *have* to let him go, otherwise:

1) we will have an unhappy player on our hands who won’t play to his previous standards and is likely to disrupt the rest of the squad

2) we will screw up our pitch to promising future signings that if they perform, we can provide them a great pathway to the biggest clubs and international football

 

I think we all believe Emi’s value to the team is greater than £40 million, and hope that even if that was offered, the club would still try and persuade him to stay. We just recognise the realities of that situation *if* it occurs.

I agree.

My issue is with the attitude some have which is basically 'if any club bids a certain amount we just have to accept.' There are plenty of caveats as you've laid out above. I'm not blind to the situation- if Arsenal or Athletico meet our valuation then Emi will go and I don't think anyone can sensibly complain about that (although I'm sure some will).

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

4 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

Actually the mission statement is to become an 'established Premier League club'.

I'd love to live in a world where we can financially compete with Leicester and Wolves, but we can't because they have EXTREMELY rich owners.  Ultimately we do not, and we are reliant on both staying in the PL and selling players to do that.  If we get £40m for Emi, and replace him with a few players who keep us established in the Premier League so we can then push on to winning a cup or two what is wrong with that?

What is wrong with exploring the possibility of owners with the same ethos but an ability to invest at the times such as promotion. 100% they do exist because other clubs have proven it and 100%, I believe the current owners do not want to let go (nice Saturdays watching you team in retirement.. I get it) and are holding back our potential. Works in tier 2 not the top flight (yet...)

[Kenny Foggo 1,118]

Just now, king canary said:

I agree.

My issue is with the attitude some have which is basically 'if any club bids a certain amount we just have to accept.' There are plenty of caveats as you've laid out above. I'm not blind to the situation- if Arsenal or Athletico meet our valuation then Emi will go and I don't think anyone can sensibly complain about that (although I'm sure some will).

I agree as Farke has said.. a silly offer has to be accepted. Is £30m a silly offer? £40m. And how much do we expect to be invested in the first team? History does not make great reading on that front

[Jim Smith 2,349]

9 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

Actually the mission statement is to become an 'established Premier League club'.

I'd love to live in a world where we can financially compete with Leicester and Wolves, but we can't because they have EXTREMELY rich owners.  Ultimately we do not, and we are reliant on both staying in the PL and selling players to do that.  If we get £40m for Emi, and replace him with a few players who keep us established in the Premier League so we can then push on to winning a cup or two what is wrong with that?

And yet whenever anyone questions the owners or why they won’t look for sources if further investment to help us to compete they are slated. 
 

it’s chicken and egg isn’t it. We need to stay in the premier league to grow but staying in the premier league when you can’t compete financially and have to sell your best players is incredibly difficult. 

[Jim Smith 2,349]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

I agree.

My issue is with the attitude some have which is basically 'if any club bids a certain amount we just have to accept.' There are plenty of caveats as you've laid out above. I'm not blind to the situation- if Arsenal or Athletico meet our valuation then Emi will go and I don't think anyone can sensibly complain about that (although I'm sure some will).

Our valuation also needs to be flexible dependent on circumstances. Emi is worth more to us at certain times than others. Right now he appears pretty much indispensable/invaluable. In a years time that may have changed if others have stepped up. 

it should not be as simplistic as saying if someone bids £40m we have to sell. 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

It’s chicken and egg isn’t it. We need to stay in the premier league to grow but staying in the premier league when you can’t compete financially and have to sell your best players is incredibly difficult. 

This. We don't have rich owners so we need the Premier League money to survive and to compete. We get promoted and people want our best players, again, no rich owners so we have to sell but that then directly affects our ability to survive in the EPL. We get relegated, and we have to build again.

Would we be selling Emi if we had richer owners? No.

Will selling Emi be to the detriment of our chances of staying up this season? Yes.

If we sell Emi, none of the players we bring in step up to the same level (and let's be honest here, we all believe Emi is an amazing player, "best in a yellow shirt", what we're asking here is extremely difficult), and then get relegated, what has selling him achieved?

[Icecream Snow 762]

11 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

To quote a manager in a recent Athletic article:

 

“If you keep players against their wishes, they down tools. The only time I had anything any good out of that player was the November, when he’d stopped sulking. And by the time the end of that month came he was thinking about moving in January, so you’re back to the same thing.

“With a player like that — someone who is an important player — from the moment they say that they want to leave, we’re ****ed as managers. They’re not going to give you commitment and they can be a bad influence in the changing room.”

I remember when Nigel Worthington was interviewed by Darren Huckerby and he'd basically said it was a mistake to try to keep Dean Ashton and that they should have just sold him in the summer we got relegated from the Premiership.

I also remember an exasperated Alex Neil being asked about our miraculous improvement in form once the January transfer window was open in 2017 and him pointing out that he hadn't told the players to do anything differently.