Here's What You Could Have Won...

[Badger 2,405]

7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

No, but better than Hernandez, Placheta or whoever else we could put in the attacking midfield three.

Possibly Wilson, but not Knockaert - and why would you loan players to block the chances of Hernandez/ Dowell/ Placheta and Josh Martin (and others)? 

Players don't develop if they don't play - and I don't think that any of the players quoted would be guaranteed to improve our team: more to the point Webber didn't either or he might have shown some interest in them. Interesting that no Prem clubs were after them!

[Nuff Said 5,140]

40 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Because we don't have a cover left back;

Or a 4th choice CB - would be 3rd choice tomorrow since Zim is out again.

You're absolutley right though, these arent players that we should be targetting, we should have been proactive before selling Godfrey/Klose/Lewis/Maccullum

But these are players that have gone today that are better options than Rupp at LB or Tettey at CB.

1) I don’t think we sold McCallum?

2) You think we should have bought in a fifth centre back? So do you want to relegate Zimmerman and Hanley to the bench at best, or are you suggesting we should have bought in someone as backup for them?

[Thirsty Lizard 3,164]

25 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

But history tell us they are going to play,

Zimmerman and Hanley both missed chunks of last season.

I want 2 LB's, I don't want Byram playing LB, I want enough cover so we don't put square pegs in round holes, somethng we did last season and something we've clearly not learnt from.

Seriously?? Did you actually watch us last season? Byram was good at left back - and that was in the Premier League. 

[Badger 2,405]

5 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

They wouldn't necessarily be a backup though- Zimmermann is injured now and Hanley probably isn't match fit.

Also, why didn't we just keep Famewo and McCallum if we want to give opportunities to younger players? Wouldn't Famewo be a safer pair of hands than Omobamidele in the short-term, and would be preferable to using players out of position? Surely McCallum can't be terrible enough to warrant using Stiepermann or Rupp as left-back options?

I can obviously only speculate, but my guess is that they felt that they needed regular game time and they felt that we had enough cover. As I've said at other points in this thread, too many players denies opportunity to the players you have and is bad for morale and player development.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Possibly Wilson, but not Knockaert - and why would you loan players to block the chances of Hernandez/ Dowell/ Placheta and Josh Martin (and others)? 

Players don't develop if they don't play - and I don't think that any of the players quoted would be guaranteed to improve our team: more to the point Webber didn't either or he might have shown some interest in them. Interesting that no Prem clubs were after them!

As I said in my previous post, we don't need players in those positions and those players are out of our price range. I would not have tried to sign either of those players.

My point was that you said those players are worse than what we currently have, and in my opinion those two are both better than the two specialist wingers we have.

[Nuff Said 5,140]

22 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

No, but better than Hernandez, Placheta or whoever else we could put in the attacking midfield three.

I think Placheta looks very promising. Perhaps we should revisit this opinion at the end of the season?

[Indy 3,300]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

I think Placheta looks very promising. Perhaps we should revisit this opinion at the end of the season?

With Buendia, Cantwell, Hernandez and Placheta we have a superb set of options.

[Nuff Said 5,140]

Just now, Indy said:

With Buendia, Cantwell, Hernandez and Placheta we have a superb set of options.

No reactions left, so 👍👍👍.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

I can obviously only speculate, but my guess is that they felt that they needed regular game time and they felt that we had enough cover. As I've said at other points in this thread, too many players denies opportunity to the players you have and is bad for morale and player development.

Apparently Farke wanted another centre back and attempts were made today to sign one.

I fail to see how we have anywhere near enough cover in defence.

Yes, we have an 18-year-old who has never played for a senior team and a player we just signed as a midfielder and can't even get a sniff in his regular position, but that's incredibly risky for such a long, intense run of games.

As for left back cover, I don't think any of us even know who it is. Stiepermann? Rupp? Mumba? The former didn't look comfort when he covered there two years ago and to the best of my knowledge, the other two have never played there.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I think Placheta looks very promising. Perhaps we should revisit this opinion at the end of the season?

He certainly has potential, I agree. I'd rather have Placheta here than Knockaert due to his potential, but let's be honest, he's very, very raw.

I'm sure if you ask the 24 Championship managers who they'd have in their team tomorrow out of Wilson, Knockaert and Placheta, based purely on current ability, I'd be amazed if any of them pick Placheta.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

We all know we are not in the same league as many other clubs financially, so there is no "financial nonsense, we're doing it on the cheap" stuff - we are simply doing it as it is - and that means we cannot always compete for the players we would like.

 

 

So who exactly is better off financially than us in this covid world bearing in mind we have £40 million plus parachute payments being drip fed into our coffers this season and next ?

[CDMullins 436]

14 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Seriously?? Did you actually watch us last season? Byram was good at left back - and that was in the Premier League. 

He can't kick the ball with his left foot, it was actually funny at times watching him try to pass the ball up the line. 

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Knockaert is on loan until January. Onel is out for 10-12 weeks (New Year). A convenient timeline  🙂 

[CDMullins 436]

17 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

1) I don’t think we sold McCallum?

2) You think we should have bought in a fifth centre back? So do you want to relegate Zimmerman and Hanley to the bench at best, or are you suggesting we should have bought in someone as backup for them?

1. Semantics, I know Sam is loaned. 

2. When it became apparent Klose was leaving, we replace him. Like Swans did today. 

I bet there's no other clubs with 3 recognised CB's. 

Two of which have injury issues. 

Surely this is common sense? 

[Number9 272]

16 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Seriously?? Did you actually watch us last season? Byram was good at left back - and that was in the Premier League. 

He's a mediocre right back, not good just a mediocre right back who can't keep away from the physio. 

He was even worse at left back, no left foot, no defensive awareness and no output in the opposition half.

He has the attacking skills of Rupp.

If you want to find a positive about him, versatile and cheap. But even those qualities are null and void because he's made of glass. 

[Nuff Said 5,140]

2 minutes ago, Number9 said:

He's a mediocre right back, not good just a mediocre right back who can't keep away from the physio. 

He was even worse at left back, no left foot, no defensive awareness and no output in the opposition half.

He has the attacking skills of Rupp.

If you want to find a positive about him, versatile and cheap. But even those qualities are null and void because he's made of glass. 

Seriously - binner. Maybe a bit of support for our own player?

Edited October 16, 2020 by Nuff Said

[Number9 272]

Just now, Nuff Said said:

Seriously - binner. Maybe a bit of support for our own player?

Sorry chap, just an honest appraisal. 

[Nuff Said 5,140]

12 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

He certainly has potential, I agree. I'd rather have Placheta here than Knockaert due to his potential, but let's be honest, he's very, very raw.

I'm sure if you ask the 24 Championship managers who they'd have in their team tomorrow out of Wilson, Knockaert and Placheta, based purely on current ability, I'd be amazed if any of them pick Placheta.

Equally, we would have been amazed if they’d picked Buendia, Hernandez, Cantwell or most of our current first team at a similar point in their career.

[Nuff Said 5,140]

1 minute ago, Number9 said:

Sorry chap, just an honest appraisal. 

If he wasn’t - when he’s fit - a great player, genuinely good enough for the PL, I might say fair enough, let’s agree to disagree. But he is nothing like what you describe, he kept a player good enough for Newcastle to pay £15 million for him out of the first team.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Equally, we would have been amazed if they’d picked Buendia, Hernandez, Cantwell or most of our current first team at a similar point in their career.

That doesn't change the fact that the Harry Wilson and Anthony Knockaert of 2020 are both better than the Przemyslaw Placheta of 2020.

Like I said, I'd rather have Placheta as a Norwich player then Knockaert because Placheta has the potential to be an excellent player, but he is a long way from the finished article.

And in case anyone misinterprets my comment, I am NOT saying we should've tried to sign either Wilson or Knockaert.

[1902 1,167]

55 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Apparently Farke wanted another centre back and attempts were made today to sign one.

I fail to see how we have anywhere near enough cover in defence.

Yes, we have an 18-year-old who has never played for a senior team and a player we just signed as a midfielder and can't even get a sniff in his regular position, but that's incredibly risky for such a long, intense run of games.

As for left back cover, I don't think any of us even know who it is. Stiepermann? Rupp? Mumba? The former didn't look comfort when he covered there two years ago and to the best of my knowledge, the other two have never played there.

Yes its risky, yes I wanted to see a CB in, yes its clear that Farke wanted more cover.

However, Farke also is pretty good at judging when 18 year olds can step up and virtually no championship clubs have adaquate cover and decent quality in all positions in this division.

Nearly all clubs buying a 4th choice CB in this division are going to be buying from League 1 or an old player approaching retirement without any idea if that will work out. Good championship CBs are not available or affordable as bench warmers. Buying a kid out of league 1 is fundementally no different from what we are doing with Sorensen.

Im frustrated as well, but I think we shouldnt lose sight of the fact that the fourth choice CB of most championship teams will be dross, and if its not there they lack depth it will be somewhere else. You could say we should be better than that given our money over the last few years, but Buendia and Aarons are both arguably the most valuable players in the division. We hung on to them and thats really impressive.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,164]

1 hour ago, Number9 said:

He's a mediocre right back, not good just a mediocre right back who can't keep away from the physio. 

He was even worse at left back, no left foot, no defensive awareness and no output in the opposition half.

He has the attacking skills of Rupp.

If you want to find a positive about him, versatile and cheap. But even those qualities are null and void because he's made of glass. 

He had a number of good games at left back and no amount of your tedious spinning will change that fact. 

[Number9 272]

19 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

He had a number of good games at left back and no amount of your tedious spinning will change that fact. 

How do you define good? 

He's not a good defender and he's not good at going forward with end product. 

That may be tedious but there you go. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

37 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Yes its risky, yes I wanted to see a CB in, yes its clear that Farke wanted more cover.

However, Farke also is pretty good at judging when 18 year olds can step up and virtually no championship clubs have adaquate cover and decent quality in all positions in this division.

Nearly all clubs buying a 4th choice CB in this division are going to be buying from League 1 or an old player approaching retirement without any idea if that will work out. Good championship CBs are not available or affordable as bench warmers. Buying a kid out of league 1 is fundementally no different from what we are doing with Sorensen.

Im frustrated as well, but I think we shouldnt lose sight of the fact that the fourth choice CB of most championship teams will be dross, and if its not there they lack depth it will be somewhere else. You could say we should be better than that given our money over the last few years, but Buendia and Aarons are both arguably the most valuable players in the division. We hung on to them and thats really impressive.

I like your attempts to be positive, but there are several points to make:

Farke is very good at judging when 18-year-olds can step up, but arguably the hardest position to do that is centre-back. And late attempts were made to sign one so it's likely that Farke has judged that Omobamidele isn't quite ready to step up.

I'd argue that Watford have adequate cover in all positions. The 14 players who featured tonight are all good players at this level and they still have Troy Deeney, Ismaila Sarr, Andre Gray, Will Hughes and Etienne Capoue to come in. Those five are all Premier League players.

Sorensen is a midfielder until we are told or showed otherwise. Speculating that he may be our fourth centre-back is just that- speculation. We're basically considering him as such because there are no other obvious options.

The fourth choice centre back at Watford and Bournemouth is not 'dross'. Based on their most recent lineups, Watford's fourth choice is Craig Cathcart and Bournemouth's fourth and fifth will probably be Cameron Carter-Vickers and Jack Simpson.

The most valuable player in the division in terms of current market value has to be Sarr by a big distance.

In conclusion, we're short-handed in defence, and that's before even mentioning left-back.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

So who exactly is better off financially than us in this covid world bearing in mind we have £40 million plus parachute payments being drip fed into our coffers this season and next ?

Other championship clubs have sufficiently rich owners that they will be able to manage the situation quite well.  As for us being well off, a good perecntage of any money we have will surely be soaked up with wages other running costs and the effects of covid over the next year or two. 

One or two rash purchases and the consequent high wages that would result could easily set us back on that path of overspending and leading to nothing to spend on future investment.  So we may not like it and it would have been good to get a CB in, but if the right player wasn't available at the right price, there is no point going out and spending money on someone else would did not fit the way we playor fit in with the group.

Patience is a hard thing to ask for, but really, that is what is required. Patience to wait and see how we get on with what we've got, patience to see if we keep key players fit, patience to see if Pukki/Hugill and Idah can get the goals etc.  It's a tough ask, but it's so early in the season and we have only just got rid of the ridiculous transfer window shenanigans. Tomorrow is an important day for the team - we need to kick start the season and tomorrow would be a good day to start that. 

Money to spend? Yes, probably, but not money to burn.

 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

If you pack your squad with back-ups - you block the route to the first team for others, especially the younger players.

It is not just bad financial management to pack your club with players that are never going to play, it also damages squad harmony and blocks the elevation and promotion routes for younger players.

It is a bad idea in just about every conceivable way.

Just added italics and underlines to the key bit. If you are a team like Norwich that prides itself on its ability and willingness to let youngsters have a smash if they're about ready instead of sacrificing them on the altar of "more experience", the most logical place for them to be is as back-ups if they're looking like they have momentum from playing well in the U23s, or indeed called back from playing well on a loan. Wouldn't be surprised if that happened to Famewo or Bushiri - or mebbe even Klose. That depends on the nature of the deal.

Sorensen plays centre-half for Denmark U21s. He's obviously got some idea of the position as he'll have played against some right promising young talents. In fact, I wouldn't be that surprised if he ends up doing a Godfrey. He is clearly a back-up option there.

By definition, back-ups are players that are somewhat of last resort. It makes perfect sense for a club so willing to develop youngsters that youngsters form the bulk of such players.

[Badger 2,405]

13 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Like I said, I'd rather have Placheta as a Norwich player then Knockaert because Placheta has the potential to be an excellent player, but he is a long way from the finished article.

How does he get to be the "finished article" if we sign old players on loan as back-ups to block nearly every chance he has of playing? You get better by playing.

If we had signed extra back-ups, the likes of Lewis et al would never have developed as far in the first place!

[Jerrykerry 223]

16 hours ago, CDMullins said:

All players who have moved today who could have ramped up our squad in postions we lack/have injuries;

Barry Douglas

Aden Flint

Ryan Bennett

Cameron Carter-Vickers

Jake Clarke-Salter

Joel Latibeaudiere

Harry Wilson

Harvey Elliott

Anthony Knockaert

Don't believe the financial nonesense, we're doing it on the cheap.

Christ what a whining saddo. 

Get a life pal. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

53 minutes ago, Badger said:

How does he get to be the "finished article" if we sign old players on loan as back-ups to block nearly every chance he has of playing? You get better by playing.

If we had signed extra back-ups, the likes of Lewis et al would never have developed as far in the first place!

For the third or fourth time, I didn't want us to sign either Knockaert or Wilson. I like Placheta and I'm glad we have him, he's a good player and has the potential to be an excellent one with the right coaching and experience, but my point was solely that at this moment in time Knockaert and Wilson are better players.

[1902 1,167]

15 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I like your attempts to be positive, but there are several points to make:

Farke is very good at judging when 18-year-olds can step up, but arguably the hardest position to do that is centre-back. And late attempts were made to sign one so it's likely that Farke has judged that Omobamidele isn't quite ready to step up.

I'd argue that Watford have adequate cover in all positions. The 14 players who featured tonight are all good players at this level and they still have Troy Deeney, Ismaila Sarr, Andre Gray, Will Hughes and Etienne Capoue to come in. Those five are all Premier League players.

Sorensen is a midfielder until we are told or showed otherwise. Speculating that he may be our fourth centre-back is just that- speculation. We're basically considering him as such because there are no other obvious options.

The fourth choice centre back at Watford and Bournemouth is not 'dross'. Based on their most recent lineups, Watford's fourth choice is Craig Cathcart and Bournemouth's fourth and fifth will probably be Cameron Carter-Vickers and Jack Simpson.

The most valuable player in the division in terms of current market value has to be Sarr by a big distance.

In conclusion, we're short-handed in defence, and that's before even mentioning left-back.

Fair enough about Sarr, that's some NCFC tinted glasses from me. 

I would also say you are also probably right about Bournemouth and Watford, however they have both had multiple seasons on premiership incomes so are the exception and not the rule. Probably 20 clubs are light in at least 1 position, many in multiple. I'm not saying the fact we are joining this group is great, I just dislike the attitude that we needed to bring in anyone with CB after their name. That's not proof of anything and a trap too many clubs and fans fall into when short in a position.

Again, that's not to imply that you were arguing for that approach, but I did think we need to realise most of the Championship will feel the same right now and that not many can afford proven cover in all positions, we probably have stronger cover in most.

Aside from that, I'm honestly I'm surprised at the players Watford have retained and would really expect them to win this division now.

Let's just pray that for once we get away with it.