New Tory Leader

[Herman 9,767]

12 minutes ago, Captain Holt said:

They're going to win the next election, the plebs will forgive and forget when the sun and the mail start pushing around election time. We are a country of brainless morons.

That is still a big fear. 👍

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

27 minutes ago, Captain Holt said:

They're going to win the next election, the plebs will forgive and forget when the sun and the mail start pushing around election time. We are a country of brainless morons.

Until Blair Starmer does something positive they may well do. Sunak is playing him stupid. He isn't saying anything and Starmer is left to produce Labour policies which he is failing to do.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,550]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Until Blair Starmer does something positive they may well do. Sunak is playing him stupid. He isn't saying anything and Starmer is left to produce Labour policies which he is failing to do.

The Conservatives won't have a majority next election. Labour might not either, but I'd be staggered if the next government isn't Labour-led.

Policies aren't needed until there's a general election in the offing.

[horsefly 4,300]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/former-tory-minister-quits-the-party-and-brands-it-overcome-with-ideology-and-self-obsession/ar-AA1696Sd?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7a0f493639184fe1970a6333c1e78338

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The Conservatives won't have a majority next election. Labour might not either, but I'd be staggered if the next government isn't Labour-led.

Policies aren't needed until there's a general election in the offing.

Policies are greatly needed. That is why Corbyn's popularity soared for a while. He was quite happy to tell the world what he would do as PM. Starmer need to be brave and say things other than visions. He needs to tell us he will sort the NHS out once and for all and he will introduce a system to pay for it. He would walk the next election then.

[Well b back 3,208]

Even when they are caught red handed, they still f****** lie.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64223974

[Well b back 3,208]

They just completely have to distort everything. Speaking about their new ‘ sack them for striking law ‘, the government said it was about keeping a minimum service. Then again outside the land of the fairies, most of the nurses that are on the picket line, take it as their day off, but many more join the picket line in their break, then go back to their stations. As most know as well the ambulance drivers leave the picket lines to take calls.

All this has done has said to those not on the picket lines, f*** the government it’s war now.

MP asks how many will be sacked for striking?

Labour MP Mike Amesbury says the proposed legislation is "very un-British" and an attack on the democratic right to withdraw one's labour.

He asks how many workers will be sacked for standing up for their right to withdraw their labour. 

Shapps responds: "The answer to the question is none."

He says the government is proposing a minimum safety level, not a no strike 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

They just completely have to distort everything. Speaking about their new ‘ sack them for striking law ‘, the government said it was about keeping a minimum service. Then again outside the land of the fairies, most of the nurses that are on the picket line, take it as their day off, but many more join the picket line in their break, then go back to their stations. As most know as well the ambulance drivers leave the picket lines to take calls.

All this has done has said to those not on the picket lines, f*** the government it’s war now.

MP asks how many will be sacked for striking?

Labour MP Mike Amesbury says the proposed legislation is "very un-British" and an attack on the democratic right to withdraw one's labour.

He asks how many workers will be sacked for standing up for their right to withdraw their labour. 

Shapps responds: "The answer to the question is none."

He says the government is proposing a minimum safety level, not a no strike 

Yeah

Thatcher was only going to close half a dozen unprofitable coal mines. What she meant was, I am going to take on the Trade Union movement by then closing more than I said and stirring up trouble.

Any restriction on the rights of anyone, be it a Union member or individual, to withdraw their Labour is barbaric and another lie from this mob.

[MooreMarriot 310]

"Mr Johnson is still due to appear before a Commons standards committee, which is investigating whether he knowingly misled MPs when he insisted all guidance had been followed at the event."

 

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-10/exclusive-boris-johnson-joked-about-most-unsocially-distanced-party-in-the-uk

 

[Herman 9,767]

Oh no, not Bridgen. Why is it always the ones you least suspect?

[sonyc 5,519]

13 minutes ago, Herman said:

Oh no, not Bridgen. Why is it always the ones you least suspect?

 

 

[Herman 9,767]

5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 

 

When you find yourself on the same side as Matt Hancock you know something truly repellant has been done. 

[Well b back 3,208]

4 hours ago, sonyc said:

 

 

Hi Sonyc

You may remember back to when the vaccine task force were constantly taunted with ‘ hang them all ‘ a reference to the Nuremberg trials and seemed to never be condemned by the government ( especially the right wing ) until the anti vaxers threw their threats at MPs themselves. This just goes to show what they really thought.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Bridgen is the Sergio Ramos of Parliament.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Why can't we vote for this lot like on I'm a Celebrity? Hell, this is how funk king bad our politics really is - a GAME SHOW IS MORE BLOODY DEMOCRATIC THAN OUR ELECTIONS! 😄 

[Well b back 3,208]

Failures at HM Revenue and Customs mean £42 billion in taxes have not been collected and people are being let down by poor customer service.

The taxman has been criticised by the Commons public accounts committee for not dedicating enough resources to tracking down lost or stolen revenue, which it says works out as 5 per cent of the country’s entire tax burden each year. A total of £4.5 billion of the missing money was taken from the Covid-19 support schemes administered by the department during the pandemic.

 

an investigative think tank, said that if the £42 billion of tax owed was divided evenly among the 34 million income tax payers in 2022, it would amount to £1,235 each.

The committee also demanded that HMRC publish a three-year plan to revive its troubled customer services. It highlighted that staff numbers had been cut by 24 per cent in the past five years, from 25,500 to 19,500, while performance continued to deteriorate.

The 22-page report also criticised the department for lagging behind international counterparts such as Germany in its attempt to stop businesses committing VAT fraud.

 

What that could pay for
Subsidising the energy costs for all households for 18 months (calculations by consultancy Cornwall Insight in November)

• The annual wages of three quarters of staff in the NHS (Department for Health and Social Care figures)

• 40 per cent of the annual state pension burden (HMRC figures)

• The annual tax shortfall caused by Brexit (Centre for European Reform)

• The annual GDP of Bolivia (IMF)

 

[Herman 9,767]

The geezer gets worse.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

He did help get rid of Boris. He is only 95% wnaker.

[horsefly 4,300]

On 11/01/2023 at 06:46, MooreMarriot said:

"Mr Johnson is still due to appear before a Commons standards committee, which is investigating whether he knowingly misled MPs when he insisted all guidance had been followed at the event."

 

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-10/exclusive-boris-johnson-joked-about-most-unsocially-distanced-party-in-the-uk

 

The ITV podcasts are excellent, and in any sane world should put an end to any suggestion that Johnson has a future as a politician (let alone PM).

I found episodes 3 and 4 particularly revealing. They also raise serious questions about the role of the Police in this sorry cover-up of blatant law-breaking. Having said for months there was nothing to investigate the Met suddenly decide on the eve of the publication of Sue Gray's report that there were after all issues to investigate. They thereby sabotaged the release and impact of the Gray report. Their subsequent  investigation was run in an appallingly incompetent and irrational fashion, and ought to raise serious concerns that it was deliberately designed to have minimal impact on Johnson. There was a mountain of evidence showing Johnson had attended and authorised several parties so it was inevitable they had to find him guilty of breaches. Thus I have always been suspicious that they only charged Johnson for the least egregious breach of the law (his birthday party) in order to ignore the grotesque bacchanalian events he attended on other occasions. There really must be an independent investigation into the conduct of the Police during this time. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 hours ago, horsefly said:

The ITV podcasts are excellent, and in any sane world should put an end to any suggestion that Johnson has a future as a politician (let alone PM).

I found episodes 3 and 4 particularly revealing. They also raise serious questions about the role of the Police in this sorry cover-up of blatant law-breaking. Having said for months there was nothing to investigate the Met suddenly decide on the eve of the publication of Sue Gray's report that there were after all issues to investigate. They thereby sabotaged the release and impact of the Gray report. Their subsequent  investigation was run in an appallingly incompetent and irrational fashion, and ought to raise serious concerns that it was deliberately designed to have minimal impact on Johnson. There was a mountain of evidence showing Johnson had attended and authorised several parties so it was inevitable they had to find him guilty of breaches. Thus I have always been suspicious that they only charged Johnson for the least egregious breach of the law (his birthday party) in order to ignore the grotesque bacchanalian events he attended on other occasions. There really must be an independent investigation into the conduct of the Police during this time. 

Wait for the  "Oh leave him alone" brigade to appear on TalkTV and GB News.

[sonyc 5,519]

4 hours ago, horsefly said:

The ITV podcasts are excellent, and in any sane world should put an end to any suggestion that Johnson has a future as a politician (let alone PM).

I found episodes 3 and 4 particularly revealing. They also raise serious questions about the role of the Police in this sorry cover-up of blatant law-breaking. Having said for months there was nothing to investigate the Met suddenly decide on the eve of the publication of Sue Gray's report that there were after all issues to investigate. They thereby sabotaged the release and impact of the Gray report. Their subsequent  investigation was run in an appallingly incompetent and irrational fashion, and ought to raise serious concerns that it was deliberately designed to have minimal impact on Johnson. There was a mountain of evidence showing Johnson had attended and authorised several parties so it was inevitable they had to find him guilty of breaches. Thus I have always been suspicious that they only charged Johnson for the least egregious breach of the law (his birthday party) in order to ignore the grotesque bacchanalian events he attended on other occasions. There really must be an independent investigation into the conduct of the Police during this time. 

Mrs sonyc has asked me a few times now whether the government might be brought down by the unions, with the kind of report above on Johnson's behaviour adding to the case. My reply has always been the same kind of question "after everything that has happened what gives you the thought that anything can bring down this government?" She admits it is wishful thinking perhaps. 

We've had all the party stuff, the calamity that was and continues to be Brexit, the giving of contracts to mates of the Tory party, the cuts to local authority funding affecting so many services and now the deepest industrial malaise and unrest since the 70s. And this isn't a complete list. I can't help thinking that a Labour administration would have gone by now, ruined and attacked by the press and media.  Yet the message is always Ukraine and Covid. Like a game of top trumps. Then you get a poster on here stating "it was just a piece of cake". Posted to belittle. "Leave him alone" as KG posts above is another example.

I'm just not surprised anymore where we are nor by the investigation you've mentioned. Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

We just wait til 2024.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

A media that knew what they were doing would have absolutely roasted this cabal of clowns into next year, let alone next week.

[Herman 9,767]

Why would thousands of children have to leave private schools if they are taxed properly? I have seen this reasoning against Starmer's plans mentioned but not explained. 

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Mrs sonyc has asked me a few times now whether the government might be brought down by the unions, with the kind of report above on Johnson's behaviour adding to the case. My reply has always been the same kind of question "after everything that has happened what gives you the thought that anything can bring down this government?" She admits it is wishful thinking perhaps. 

We've had all the party stuff, the calamity that was and continues to be Brexit, the giving of contracts to mates of the Tory party, the cuts to local authority funding affecting so many services and now the deepest industrial malaise and unrest since the 70s. And this isn't a complete list. I can't help thinking that a Labour administration would have gone by now, ruined and attacked by the press and media.  Yet the message is always Ukraine and Covid. Like a game of top trumps. Then you get a poster on here stating "it was just a piece of cake". Posted to belittle. "Leave him alone" as KG posts above is another example.

I'm just not surprised anymore where we are nor by the investigation you've mentioned. Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

We just wait til 2024.

I'm afraid Sony that Brexit and sheer tribalism on the right that followed it - the unquestioning we got one over on the 'experts' (better known as lowest common denominator politics), or the 'enemies of the people' and so on - has simply fried the brains of many of any further rational thought. Any excuse not to blame their 'champion' for the calamity that followed, or excuses in the case of Johnson for the appalling behaviour. If all else fails they state wait 50 years for Brexit to 'come good'.

I haven't got much love for the rail unions - ASLEF in particular but we need a new rational government in place to deal honestly with any of these issues  - not ideologues. We are simply in a state of national decline that may be terminal now.

[Aggy 755]

On 10/01/2023 at 10:26, keelansgrandad said:

Policies are greatly needed. That is why Corbyn's popularity soared for a while. He was quite happy to tell the world what he would do as PM. Starmer need to be brave and say things other than visions. He needs to tell us he will sort the NHS out once and for all and he will introduce a system to pay for it. He would walk the next election then.

How is he going to find a scheme to pay for sorting out the nhs out once and for all? I think some have their heads in the sand about the problems the nhs faces. Tory underfunding a massive problem of course. But the far bigger issue is that more people live a lot longer. Chucking money at it might help in the short term but it isn’t going to sort problems once and for all. Any system to pay for dealing with the far wider social issues that would need to be resolved for the nhs to be sorted ‘once and for all’, and continue to deal with those social issues as the population continues to get even older, would likely involve not just taxing big companies more, but also taxing the normal person more, pretty much for ever. I don’t think that equates to walking an election.

I would agree he needs some policies though. The reality is that Brexit has ruined Labour. They didn’t come out to oppose Brexit because that would have lost a lot of votes - lots of traditionally labour areas voted for brexit. They didn’t come out and support brexit because that would have lost a lot of votes from people who wanted to stay in the eu. Because they didn’t do either, they’ve lost more than if they’d done one. People on both sides of brexit now query whether the Labour party reflects their views.

What have we seen from them since then to bring those people back? The plan seems to be hope enough people get fed up of the tories and vote Labour by default. I’m not sure that will work.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

33 minutes ago, Aggy said:

ory underfunding a massive problem of course. But the far bigger issue is that more people live a lot longer. Chucking money at it might help in the short term but it isn’t going to sort problems once and for all. Any system to pay for dealing with the far wider social issues that would need to be resolved for the nhs to be sorted ‘once and for all’, and continue to deal with those social issues as the population continues to get even older, would likely involve not just taxing big companies more, but also taxing the normal person more, pretty much for ever. I don’t think that equates to walking an election.

This is very true - Frankly, the lowest hanging fruit is to make pensioners pay NI if they earn or have income above the threshold - many, many do (private pensions, buy to let and and on and on). Absurd that the highest users as a group of the NHS stop paying in (try that with any other insurance scheme - won't end well)!

We really do need an honest debate about the current 'entitlement' culture some have.

Either way we need to pay and invest more - and be honest about the requirements for immigration too in an ageing society else too few will pay the bills in the future!

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Retirement age is bound to go up further as well.

[Captain Holt 522]

When are we going to the streets about the state of the NHS? We're sleep walking into utter disaster. No other democracy in the world would accept what is happening in this country, and in half of them there would be heads on spikes.

[horsefly 4,300]

2 hours ago, Aggy said:

The reality is that Brexit has ruined Labour. They didn’t come out to oppose Brexit because that would have lost a lot of votes - lots of traditionally labour areas voted for brexit.

Except that is precisely what they did.

[sonyc 5,519]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

This is very true - Frankly, the lowest hanging fruit is to make pensioners pay NI if they earn or have income above the threshold - many, many do (private pensions, buy to let and and on and on). Absurd that the highest users as a group of the NHS stop paying in (try that with any other insurance scheme - won't end well)!

We really do need an honest debate about the current 'entitlement' culture some have.

Either way we need to pay and invest more - and be honest about the requirements for immigration too in an ageing society else too few will pay the bills in the future!

Agree with you here. And @Aggy too above raises very pertinent points.  I posted before (on the Brexit thread because of the comparison between EU countries on health) about how Germany has been trying to tackle the care / health interface for over 30 years - through cross party discussions and policy formulation. Reading about how they are tackling their health trends reminded me how they also tackle their employment challenges (by linking vocational requirement, future recruitment needs and skills acquisition to their school system. I am so impressed by this kind of public policy collaboration. It aims to look at problems for the long term. You never solve anything completely because change is constant but it shows the values of a civilised country.

I'm a big.supporter of the NHS but I know it as huge challenges. Like you and your thoughts on rail YF.

I don't believe people will.simply vote Labour by a kind of default. I believe though that Labour are starting to work through what policies are needed to put right the last 13 years. We ought not (ever) forget that the funding decisions made in a number of areas in life, social and economic, by the present administration have been intentional. Their policies have been a political choice. The damage is now emerging. Story by story. Whether YF we are in terminal decline I am not well informed enough to have an opinion on that. But a decline it certainly is. I never thought I would see nurses and doctors striking or life expectancy actually reduce!