New Tory Leader

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

Has anyone else changed their beliefs so drastically, so quickly?

 

Also, when she was a Lib Dem she gave a speech saying that the Monarchy should be abolished.

That'll make those monthly meetings with The Queen awkward.

 

[KiwiScot 1,461]

What's so wrong about wanting to get into politics once you've joined the Lib Dems?

[horsefly 4,315]

7 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

U-turn upon U-turn upon U-turn. Some U-turning can be seen as reviewing and taking stock. Constant U-turning smacks of opportunism.

She's hosted more turns than Sunday Night at the Palladium.

[Mr Apples 1,331]

Fair play to her, she is consistent...🤣

Apples

[Herman 9,825]

4 minutes ago, Mr Apples said:

Fair play to her, she is consistent...🤣

Apples

Like a fine custard.😀

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

Oh dear! Do you think anyone is going to fall for this pathetically sad attempt to distract from the pile of rubbish you wrote before? When people talk of their "personal truth" they typically mean to refer to truths about their personal experience, not, as you imply, a belief that all truths are purely personal. It is a mark of your unthinking prejudice that you fail to recognise such a distinction. 

Your previous post displayed very clearly that you have not the slightest grasp of how science works, nor of the distinction between scientific concepts and social concepts and their areas of application. Yet again that is proven in your last sentence in this post  where again you conflate the concepts of gender and sex as if they belong to exactly the same category of distinctions. Any serious consideration of trans issues needs to recognise that extremely complex issues arise precisely because biological sex determination conflicts with the gender concepts an individual experiences and confronts in social reality.

Even from a purely scientific perspective your over-confidence in sex determination is unwarranted. There exist people known as hermaphrodites (something quite common across the natural world). There are also men who have an extra y chromosome (are they more of a man than us men who have just one y chromosome?). You need to grow up, rid yourself of prejudice,  and accept that the interplay between biological determination and gender experience is complex and represents for some people a genuine need to physically transform their body to match the psychological reality they experience. It only takes a rudimentary familiarity with classical literature to be aware that these issues have been with us throughout the history of human civilisation. And as 1902 pointed out above, a cursory acquaintance with anthropology would also soon disabuse you of your naïve assumption that sex and gender are considered the same thing in every culture. 

Issues concerning the nature and extent of trans rights are extraordinarily complex, requiring honest, sober, and compassionate discussion from all sides. Your use of the word "woke" reveals very clearly that the real motive of your post is to stoke a culture war rather than engage in rational debate. Your attempt to use an appalling grasp of science to defend your ill-disguised prejudice, and refusal to acknowledge the very real plight of a section of our population, is indeed "pitiful" and "dangerous".. 

Hermaphrodites do exist, as do those with other genetic oddities, but they are a tiny minority. Even trans people who have actually undergone surgery represent a tiny minority, so in one sense it strikes me as incredible that there's an attempt to turn a pretty core part of society upside down for the sake of such a fringe issue. 

In terms of participation in sport, it seems right and fair that all people who wish to participate should be allowed to. In that, though, it should be remembered that the existence of women's sport separate to men's sport is a recognition of the physical differences in the sexes and that, in almost all physical sports, women are disadvantaged to men. This means that including women who have had gender reassignment surgery  to transition from a biological male is an act of harm to the rights of cis women until it has been categorically proven that those who were previously male don't have inherent advantages from the fact that they were biologically male; this has not remotely been proven to be the case. 

My approach would be to change the categories from men's sport and women's sport to open sport and cis-women's sport, with open sport allowing competition from any sex and gender and cis-women's sport a protected category exclusively for those born female. 

As for actual gender reassignment surgery for someone who is born male or female, the 'need' for surgery is a belief that exists in the mind of the subject that their physical birth sex is wrong, but the fact of their physical sex presents no physically life-threatening risk to their existence. This is entirely elective and cosmetic surgery that we're talking about, but one that does damage the physical sexual function of the person irrevocably. Given that there are examples of people who have undergone gender reassignment and regretted it, those people have been harmed by that surgery, which begs the question whether this sort of elective surgery is even ethical. 

These are just my thoughts on the subject and I agree it's a horribly complicated minefield of emotion for those struggling with this sort of personal identity issue, but there should be a lot more thought about it if we're talking about turning all of human society upside down for the sake of a niche interest. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Mr Apples 1,331]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Like a fine custard.😀

Same level of denseness too. 🤣

Apples

[king canary 7,678]

On 15/07/2022 at 18:49, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well done, although technically 'needed to' doesn't make explicit that he had actually done it; 'Starmer needed to do it,but hadn't ruled it out' is as logical a way of extending your statement as 'Starmer needed to do it, and has explicitly ruled it out', so your snarkiness in response to my supportive comment wasn't really necessary or justified.  

Apologies, misinterpreted the tone of your original reply.

[Herman 9,825]

Mordaunt is promising to get brexit re-done!

No, I haven't a clue about how she'd achieve this or even what she is on about.

[Van wink 2,994]

Liz Truss is 46…. Ffs she needs to see a doctor, telephone appointment not going to help!

[Yellow Fever 3,834]

Back from week away.

On tonight's showing only Sunak is in the real world.

Tax cuts ergo a smaller state will have to be paid for. Please tell us which taxes will rise or what benefits must drop to balance the books.

For what its worth as I've oft said I think Sunak will move towards the US model. Hire em fire them. £50 to see a GP etc.

I'd however start with levelling and simplifying all tax and NI rates. Same rate for earned and unearned income... yes dividends, PAYE and no NI cut off for pensioners. The tax taken can then be used to lower all rates or indeed cut corporation tax. Most Brexit voters will of course hate it. Welcome to the real world. 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I would like to see the tax personal allowance threshold raised to the same as the minimum wage for forty hours.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,595]

I'm interested to see if this campaign against Mordaunt is going to actually damage her. For instance, looking into this MCB thing, in spite of it being on a government 'do not engage' list, she was congratulating a woman who had just been appointed to a senior role in the group, so I can see a strong argument for using something like that to engage positively, given that it was a somewhat progressive move on their part, in keeping with wider social values on equality, in contrast to the prevalent misogyny in Islam. 

From my point of view, I think the story actually makes her look good. Whether the Conservative party membership will see it like that is another matter. 

[TheRock 171]

On 17/07/2022 at 08:50, A Load of Squit said:

Also, when she was a Lib Dem she gave a speech saying that the Monarchy should be abolished.

That'll make those monthly meetings with The Queen awkward.

 

 

All Policitians are massive turncoats, it's why all of their political days are numbered, and they are so often accused of corruption. Look at the Party Leader's EU stances alone:-

 

Starmer now believes "Brexit is the right thing to do" despite being a total martyr against it, and voting against it over 30 times.

William Hague was massively against any further European integration whatsoever, and especially against UK adopting the Euro currency during the 2001 General Election, yet campained heavily for Remain before the referendum.

Boris was a remainer until he realised he could nab the populist votes from right wing media by joining Vote Leave.

Corbyn was the arch enemy of the European Union until he became Leader of the Opposition.

Cameron asked for years for an EU in/out referendum as Leader of the Opposition in the years prior to 2010, yet wouldnt even discuss it until he secured a majortiy in 2015, and his party was bleeding votes to UKIP in the 2014 european elections.

John Major took the UK out of the Exchange rate mechansim yet is such a mouthpiece now for rejoining the EU.

 

 

Even Enoch Powell told the English electorate at the latter 1974 election to vote for Labour, after he defected from the Tories to the Ulster Unionist Party due to Heath joining the EEC without a mandate.

 

RE: the last two years, Follow the money for PPE / vax purchases and contracts, and again it is no secret to see where their incentives came from... it certainly was not "following the science".

Edited July 18, 2022 by TheRock

[TheRock 171]

14 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Back from week away.

On tonight's showing only Sunak is in the real world.

Tax cuts ergo a smaller state will have to be paid for. Please tell us which taxes will rise or what benefits must drop to balance the books.

For what its worth as I've oft said I think Sunak will move towards the US model. Hire em fire them. £50 to see a GP etc.

I'd however start with levelling and simplifying all tax and NI rates. Same rate for earned and unearned income... yes dividends, PAYE and no NI cut off for pensioners. The tax taken can then be used to lower all rates or indeed cut corporation tax. Most Brexit voters will of course hate it. Welcome to the real world. 

 

Massively ironic if Sunak becomes leader given his reputation is now in taters due to his shoddy Budgets as CoE which did nothing for the working or middle class, and given that he was fined for the lockdown saga, i think if he becomes leader it will be a hung parliament at best next time round as no moderate voters will forget that. Plus i dont think the Tory postal electorate will let him in in a run-off against Mourdant.

 

Personally i've never been fully against privatisation, but any suggestion of further privisation or paying to see a doctor would be a landslide defeat at the next election for him, and probablly politicaal suicide, although i think Sunak is already damaged goods given how long he was Boris' right hand man for...

[PurpleCanary 5,582]

Ouch. Looks like Mordaunt's death knell:

7m ago10.23

Mordaunt has neglected some of her trade department work because of her campaigning, says her ministerial boss

Penny Mordaunt, the Tory leadership candidate, has been accused by her ministerial boss of neglecting some of her government duties while she has been focusing on her leadership campaign.

The accusation came from Anne-Marie Trevelyan, the international trade secretary. Mordaunt is the minister of state in the department - effectively Trevelyan’s deputy.

[Herman 9,825]

Are the tories desperate to throw the next election and dump all the mess on Labour?? 

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

14 minutes ago, TheRock said:

 

All Policitians are massive turncoats, it's why all of their political days are numbered, and they are so often accused of corruption. Look at the Party Leader's EU stances alone:-

 

Starmer now believes "Brexit is the right thing to do" despite being a total martyr against it, and voting against it over 30 times.

Starmer voted against the deals that were struck by May & then by Johnson, his recent position is that now we have left we need to make the best of a very bad job, he will engage with the EU to try and get us out of the mess that has been created, it's called pragmatism.

William Hague was massively against any further European integration whatsoever, and especially against UK adopting the Euro currency during the 2001 General Election, yet campained heavily for Remain before the referendum.

Hague was indeed against some aspects of further integration, especially not joining the Euro, as we have seen, you can still be outside the Eurozone and still be in the EU, that's why he favoured Remain.

Boris was a remainer until he realised he could nab the populist votes from right wing media by joining Vote Leave.

Johnson was a liar, is a liar and will always be a liar.

Corbyn was the arch enemy of the European Union until he became Leader of the Opposition.

I don't care what Corbyn thinks.

Cameron asked for years for an EU in/out referendum as Leader of the Opposition in the years prior to 2010, yet wouldnt even discuss it until he secured a majortiy in 2015, and his party was bleeding votes to UKIP in the 2014 european elections.

Cameron was and still is a d!ckhead

John Major took the UK out of the Exchange rate mechansim yet is such a mouthpiece now for rejoining the EU.

You can still be in the EU and not in the Euro, John Major understood this. I's a shame that the Leavers were able to convince the voters that their lies were plausible.

 

 

Even Enoch Powell told the English electorate at the latter 1974 election to vote for Labour, after he defected from the Tories to the Ulster Unionist Party due to Heath joining the EEC without a mandate.

Enoch Powell was an odious man who is hopefully burning in the fires of hell. 

 

RE: the last two years, Follow the money for PPE / vax purchases and contracts, and again it is no secret to see where their incentives came from... it certainly was not "following the science".

The science was followed by many countries, I suppose they were all in on the scam?

 

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

10 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Ouch. Looks like Mordaunt's death knell:

7m ago10.23

Mordaunt has neglected some of her trade department work because of her campaigning, says her ministerial boss

Penny Mordaunt, the Tory leadership candidate, has been accused by her ministerial boss of neglecting some of her government duties while she has been focusing on her leadership campaign.

The accusation came from Anne-Marie Trevelyan, the international trade secretary. Mordaunt is the minister of state in the department - effectively Trevelyan’s deputy.

Isn't this just another attempted smear?

I'm sure I read that Truss returned home early from official business to kick start her campaign.

I would imagine that Braverman and Badenoch could be accused of giving the day job 100%.

[sonyc 5,541]

55 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm interested to see if this campaign against Mordaunt is going to actually damage her. For instance, looking into this MCB thing, in spite of it being on a government 'do not engage' list, she was congratulating a woman who had just been appointed to a senior role in the group, so I can see a strong argument for using something like that to engage positively, given that it was a somewhat progressive move on their part, in keeping with wider social values on equality, in contrast to the prevalent misogyny in Islam. 

From my point of view, I think the story actually makes her look good. Whether the Conservative party membership will see it like that is another matter. 

The biggest challenge is coming from the Mail who are Truss supporters. Can't help feeling Johnson is in the background either. More and more stories keep emerging questioning her.

Whether the mud sticks is indeed interesting (though why I decided to watch that one hour last night I don't know). Clearly Mordaunt had developed a new tack last night, by coming across in the role of 'chairperson' as she repeatedly tried to pull together her opponents to reflect on things. I found her tactic interesting because she, in effect, came across in such a way as  looking like a leader. Kept talking about the team.

Sunak is probably damaged because of his association with the toxic and fatally damaged Johnson. He came across as the most knowledgeable. Truss the most daft. Then, I expect Tugendhat to be voted out next. Badenoch seems rather a strange outsider but possibly after a cabinet position.

I still see Mordaunt as the one that the largely elderly 'selectorate' will vote for. Even more so, as they mainly are based in the south and south east.

Whatever, it's a poor choice. And this is arguably their best pool of people they could have put up. Whereas meanwhile, we are having to put up with them.

Edited July 18, 2022 by sonyc

[PurpleCanary 5,582]

3 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Isn't this just another attempted smear?

I'm sure I read that Truss returned home early from official business to kick start her campaign.

I would imagine that Braverman and Badenoch could be accused of giving the day job 100%.

It is, but it comes as Mordaunt seems to be slipping back, and will be seized upon by the Mail, if it hasn't already, as ammunition in its campaign to get Truss into the final two against Sunak.

[king canary 7,678]

The other impact on Mordant is fundamentally the general public is a bit sexist. Men are seen as inherently more electable for a variety of reasons and that will hurt her chances. It is the reason Labour has passed on a number of qualified women for leaders and it is why a fairly bland guy like Tugendhat is a reasonably popular choice. 

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It is, but it comes as Mordaunt seems to be slipping back, and will be seized upon by the Mail, if it hasn't already, as ammunition in its campaign to get Truss into the final two against Sunak.

We'll have to see what happens in today's vote. The Mail's major influence is with the party members, the MP's who are voting today are probably more influenced about who is going to offer them a job.

[Yellow Fever 3,834]

16 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Back from week away.

On tonight's showing only Sunak is in the real world.

Tax cuts ergo a smaller state will have to be paid for. Please tell us which taxes will rise or what benefits must drop to balance the books.

For what its worth as I've oft said I think Sunak will move towards the US model. Hire em fire them. £50 to see a GP etc.

I'd however start with levelling and simplifying all tax and NI rates. Same rate for earned and unearned income... yes dividends, PAYE and no NI cut off for pensioners. The tax taken can then be used to lower all rates or indeed cut corporation tax. Most Brexit voters will of course hate it. Welcome to the real world. 

 

 

1 hour ago, TheRock said:

Massively ironic if Sunak becomes leader given his reputation is now in taters due to his shoddy Budgets as CoE which did nothing for the working or middle class, and given that he was fined for the lockdown saga, i think if he becomes leader it will be a hung parliament at best next time round as no moderate voters will forget that. Plus i dont think the Tory postal electorate will let him in in a run-off against Mourdant.

 

Personally i've never been fully against privatisation, but any suggestion of further privisation or paying to see a doctor would be a landslide defeat at the next election for him, and probablly politicaal suicide, although i think Sunak is already damaged goods given how long he was Boris' right hand man for...

 

I think what i'm seeing is the conundrum at the heart of Brexit play out. The so called benefits of Brexit are real but only in a less regulated, more dynamic, yes smaller state. That's why the likes of Fox support Sunak. If you want smaller taxes then ultimately that means less benefits including pensions and so yes perhaps some charges for medical care (like prescriptions) too and a lower safety net. Sunak seems to me the only one that can see and accept this rational and workable position. It will mean for many who think they are entitled to the safety net  that they they'll have to work or think like many a migrant 'starting from nothing'.  As to the other candidates  - they are just fantasists aka Johnson - children believing in fairy tales. 

Of course most Brexiteers are pensioners or protectionists - the very real antithesis of the the above.  

Edited July 18, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

Looks like Sunak & Truss are panicking.

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-cancels-conservative-leadership-debate-after-sunak-and-truss-pull-out-12654286

Sky News cancels Conservative leadership debate after Sunak and Truss refuse to take part

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

17 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Looks like Sunak & Truss are panicking.

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-cancels-conservative-leadership-debate-after-sunak-and-truss-pull-out-12654286

Sky News cancels Conservative leadership debate after Sunak and Truss refuse to take part

😂😂😂😂

I don't know why they have been given time anyway. Its only Tory members voting for a new leader who will happen to be the next PM.

The rest of the country couldn't give two figs about it because we are not getting a vote. There should have been a GE. The Tories say no because its always been done this way and yet we have so many of the candidates saying we need to move on to the future and forget the past.

And the circumstances are totally different because we had a PM who had been fined for breaking the law.

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

One rule for them...............................

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-62207530?at_custom2=twitter&at_campaign=64&at_custom3=%40BBCNews&at_custom1=[post+type]&at_medium=custom7&at_custom4=0737A42A-0685-11ED-87A4-8F720EDC252D

A police and crime commissioner who had pledged to crack down on speeding has been given a six-month driving ban after being caught breaking the limit five times in 12 weeks.

Nottinghamshire's Conservative PCC Caroline Henry broke a 30mph (48km/h) limit in four locations in the county between March and June 2021.

................

Henry, who is married to Conservative Broxtowe MP Darren Henry, was captured over the speed limit twice near a primary school in Daybrook, Nottinghamshire, as well as roads in Chilwell, Beeston and on the county's A610.

..................

The 52-year-old declined to answer questions on whether she would resign.

..................

 

She campaigned for election using the slogan "Make Notts Safe" and promised to "reduce crime with action, not words".

In a statement outside court after being sentenced, she said: "I'm truly sorry for speeding.

"Quite properly I've been fined and banned from driving for six months.

"I remain committed to serving the people of Nottinghamshire as police and crime commissioner."

FGS, just p!ss off.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,834]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

😂😂😂😂

I don't know why they have been given time anyway. Its only Tory members voting for a new leader who will happen to be the next PM.

The rest of the country couldn't give two figs about it because we are not getting a vote. There should have been a GE. The Tories say no because its always been done this way and yet we have so many of the candidates saying we need to move on to the future and forget the past.

And the circumstances are totally different because we had a PM who had been fined for breaking the law.

I quite agree KG although its has been pitiful to see how poor and delusional most of the candidates are. I thought it ran well in the comedy slot.

However - if as seem likely we are about to see a change of direction - cut taxes, borrow on tick to pay for them (and NOT invest like Corbyn) then yes a GE is the only solution.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Barry Brockes 148]

Sunak and Truss are now comfortably 1 and 2 in the betting to win the leadership contest. The most likely way they'll lose that stranglehold is by Truss making a right horlicks of the third debate as she did the first one. The danger if she did so would be to let Mordaunt back in. Simple answer, cancel the debate which takes the bullet out of the gun. You can read these Tories like the back of your hand.

[sonyc 5,541]

45 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

Sunak and Truss are now comfortably 1 and 2 in the betting to win the leadership contest. The most likely way they'll lose that stranglehold is by Truss making a right horlicks of the third debate as she did the first one. The danger if she did so would be to let Mordaunt back in. Simple answer, cancel the debate which takes the bullet out of the gun. You can read these Tories like the back of your hand.

As I think you've said before, follow the money. Not the stuff that comes out of their mouths.