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Yorkshire  Canary

Norwich a fortunate position compared to most

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The early optimism of the Virus falling away seems to be changing quickly to a more realistic understanding that sadly it looks like being with us years rather than  a year and all that goes with that impacting upon peoples lives and life styles. I know we have had a poor season but with hindsight we were very fortunate to get promoted when we did it enabled us to shore up our finances, buy and blood young talent that is worth a lot more money than a year ago and get 2 seasons parachute payments. This debate on how we will get lower numbers of fans into grounds has been parked and now there is the debate on when will any fans get into grounds. Given that the kids are going back to school in September we are fearful of increased infection levels in the winter i think we may be fortunate to see hardly fans in grounds before the spring and the better weather and possibly a vaccine. All clubs outside the PL in this scenario are and will see their finances fall off a cliff edge like cinemas and airlines. The next 2 years parachute payments and player sales and hopefully prudent investment gives us optimism more than most clubs that we will still be here in 5 years time and if we play our cards right even back in the PL in the next few years. We can have a pop at the board for not investing last season but we  are fortunate by accident that they did not and we could well take advantage of that yet. What will football look like in 3 years time impossible to say even in 3 months time, who will go, who will want to go who will have clubs to go and watch. Anyway in very difficult and sad times our club it better positioned than many andwe should be grateful of that

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A very good post. The lower you go down the leagues the more reliant clubs are on fans coming through the turnstiles, I fear that there could be a number of clubs going to the wall, as a football fan I really hate to see fans and communities losing their football clubs. I know it is not going to happen, but football does really need to reset itself in respect of the huge disparity between the rich clubs, the Premier League and the rest of the clubs/Football League.........

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"We can have a pop at the board for not investing"

not borrowing, to be more accurate, because that would have been the only way we could have funded the first payment on any transfer

even then I am not sure to bank banks would have been ready to lend us the money

so it wasn't buy accident, just blunt reality as much as anything else

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All very well providing of course there are a sufficient number of competitive opponents left for us to play and complete the season.

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

"We can have a pop at the board for not investing"

not borrowing, to be more accurate, because that would have been the only way we could have funded the first payment on any transfer

even then I am not sure to bank banks would have been ready to lend us the money

so it wasn't buy accident, just blunt reality as much as anything else

Banks absolutely would have lent to us, the guarantee of parachute payments in a worst case scenario would have seen us as a safe short term investment. However, we were right not to, had we leveraged those future payments to borrow to fund transfers and been relegated, those parachute payments would have gone straight to the bank and we'd have been up s*it creek even with fans in the ground. Without them, armageddon.

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Some fair points, I would rather we were in the top flight though and think it could have been achieved... Oh well! 

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53 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Some fair points, I would rather we were in the top flight though and think it could have been achieved... Oh well! 

Dont switch your phone  off, as SW and DF are surely  gonna ring for advice.

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2 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Banks absolutely would have lent to us, the guarantee of parachute payments in a worst case scenario would have seen us as a safe short term investment. However, we were right not to, had we leveraged those future payments to borrow to fund transfers and been relegated, those parachute payments would have gone straight to the bank and we'd have been up s*it creek even with fans in the ground. Without them, armageddon.

Banks do not lend money to football clubs to go out and spend on players and have not done so for a number of years.

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2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Dont switch your phone  off, as SW and DF are surely  gonna ring for advice.

Excellent, surprised they did not ring you given your response to most on here... I'll send them your love. 

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4 hours ago, Bill said:

"We can have a pop at the board for not investing"

not borrowing, to be more accurate, because that would have been the only way we could have funded the first payment on any transfer

even then I am not sure to bank banks would have been ready to lend us the money

so it wasn't buy accident, just blunt reality as much as anything else

Every successful business invests to improve, those that don't get left behind. That is a fact! Businesses with no cash flow do not improve.

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1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Excellent, surprised they did not ring you given your response to most on here... I'll send them your love. 

Do , do , do.In addition, I'd love to congratulate  them  personally on the improvements In  the club over the last 3 years. 

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Da da da... great Police track that...I'll wait and see if it comes to fruition first, as there have been false dawn's in their 17 / 18 year ownership but I will wish them well... 

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1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Every successful business invests to improve, those that don't get left behind. That is a fact! Businesses with no cash flow do not improve.

Correct, but some businesses earn that investment themselves whilst others can't seem to achieve that and have to therefore look to third parties to offer external investment. We've been able to do the former, by creating our own assets, in theory.

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18 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Correct, but some businesses earn that investment themselves whilst others can't seem to achieve that and have to therefore look to third parties to offer external investment. We've been able to do the former, by creating our own assets, in theory.

If the business is so well financial as we have been told and we don't have to sell a Madison (Godfrey, Aaron's, Cantwell, Buendia) to avoid bankruptcy, I look forward to the extra money (Godfrey, Aaron's, Cantwell, Buendia) being invested more wisely than in the past. 

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2 hours ago, duke63 said:

Banks do not lend money to football clubs to go out and spend on players and have not done so for a number of years.

They don't finance deals in the way that companies like 23Capital do for sure, but at the end of the day banks lend to football clubs and football clubs spend money on transfer fees. The money may be partially secured elsewhere and borrowed for a specified purpose but it all ends up in the same expenditure column.

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37 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

If the business is so well financial as we have been told and we don't have to sell a Madison (Godfrey, Aaron's, Cantwell, Buendia) to avoid bankruptcy, I look forward to the extra money (Godfrey, Aaron's, Cantwell, Buendia) being invested more wisely than in the past. 

Neil wasted his war chest.

The current recruitment staff haven't been given more than pocket money. Yet they seem to recruit better.

Funny old game saint.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Neil wasted his war chest.

The current recruitment staff haven't been given more than pocket money. Yet they seem to recruit better.

Funny old game saint.

Not only that, but when we sold the likes of Watkins and Srbeny, we actually got something for both men as well, even though neither man did all that much for us. Didn't we get a million for Watkins after picking him up on a free?

Cases like Maddison and Murphy will always stand out, but even smaller fees like these add up.

Edited by TheGunnShow

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43 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

They don't finance deals in the way that companies like 23Capital do for sure, but at the end of the day banks lend to football clubs and football clubs spend money on transfer fees. The money may be partially secured elsewhere and borrowed for a specified purpose but it all ends up in the same expenditure column.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/11/premier-league-clubs-australian-bank-macquarie-loans-tv-earnings

 

This is how modern football does it borrowing at top level....and its fraught with danger as the last few months have shown.

I wonder how keen they will be to lend in this way over the coming 12 months?

Its easy to see why the top leagues in Europe wanted the season to finish at any cost and its also easy to see how it could all collapse like a house of cards overnight.

 

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9 hours ago, essex canary said:

All very well providing of course there are a sufficient number of competitive opponents left for us to play and complete the season.

Exactly. We might even get promoted as last man standing.

The worry is the virus outlives the parachute payments and we suffer a slow lingering death just like the rest.

Unfortunately I can see TV revenue being the only source of revenue for the foreseeable future and that essentially means the EPL as nobody is going to pay to watch the Championship. Yes we are in a better state than some but it was the wrong season to be relegated.

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3 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Exactly. We might even get promoted as last man standing.

The worry is the virus outlives the parachute payments and we suffer a slow lingering death just like the rest.

Unfortunately I can see TV revenue being the only source of revenue for the foreseeable future and that essentially means the EPL as nobody is going to pay to watch the Championship. Yes we are in a better state than some but it was the wrong season to be relegated.

Yep... Any business suddenly losing 50% of it income and then possibly 99% in three years time, will struggle. Let's hope the plan delivers.

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Posted (edited)

Indeed. If the Championship is such a car crash as some people are predicting what is to stop the Premier League pulling up the drawbridge especially now their darlings Leeds United are no safely board. 

Edited by essex canary
error

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It was sad when the board announced last summer that they weren’t going to investing in players much as it made relegation all too obvious, but it was understandable and a sensible move - also the relegation clauses in contracts. I have to admit I always have big doubts about our survival whenever we get promoted, even if we do try to strengthen our squad - what would you think if we’d spent about £40m on improving the squad and still gone down? The main positive now is that we didn’t spend much this season and have now received our first parachute payment - £100m if I’m right?

At least our squad has had got some PL experience now and as we are now financially stable we have no need to sell, whilst Bournemouth and Watford are having to part company with their best talent.
 

With Bournemouth and Watford parting company with key players and Leeds, WBA and Fulham promoted it looks easy next season, but I think we need to see who we manage to keep and what our squad’s morale level is

 

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16 hours ago, duke63 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/11/premier-league-clubs-australian-bank-macquarie-loans-tv-earnings

 

This is how modern football does it borrowing at top level....and its fraught with danger as the last few months have shown.

I wonder how keen they will be to lend in this way over the coming 12 months?

Its easy to see why the top leagues in Europe wanted the season to finish at any cost and its also easy to see how it could all collapse like a house of cards overnight.

 

Absolutely. For the big transfers, clubs borrow against the future value of the player they are going to sign. Completely insane.

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Posted (edited)

Imagine we’d spent that money on signing Fahrmann, Amadou, Roberts and Duda permanently!   
 

there would be riots in the streets by now! Have to say proud of the way our club has gone about things.   Our way with intelligence, imagination, opportunity and development.   Football is about football and not money.   Not following the standard practices but thinking for ourselves. OTBC

Edited by ged in the onion bag
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22 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Da da da... great Police track that...I'll wait and see if it comes to fruition first, as there have been false dawn's in their 17 / 18 year ownership but I will wish them well... 

I was referring to Farke and Webber, not Delia and Michael......the clue was in the initials I used. 

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12 hours ago, HazzaJet said:

With Bournemouth and Watford parting company with key players and Leeds, WBA and Fulham promoted it looks easy next season, but I think we need to see who we manage to keep and what our squad’s morale level is

Time for a cliche. The Championship is one of the toughest leagues in Europe to get promoted from. Looking forward to the challenge. No easy games unless we are 3 nil up and cruising. 

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3 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

I was referring to Farke and Webber, not Delia and Michael......the clue was in the initials I used. 

Employees of the owners.... But you are right... Take a bow

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4 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Employees of the owners.... But you are right... Take a bow

Majority shareholders, not owners.  

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2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Majority shareholders, not owners.  

Semantics ... Frequently referred to as owners.... They call the shots in case you didn't know...😉

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