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59 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Our funding arguments always sound like this to me:

 

Superb! I was looking for that episode to reference too when someone on here was bleating about how we needed to spend £60m and that would make everything ok.

Love a bit of South Park.

Who are the 3 in the video then? One might be Jim...😉

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Can someone please mention St Andrews Hall? I’m playing PinkUn Bingo and I’m down to the last phrase. 
 

Thanks in anticipation. 
 

GPB. 

Tilly????

Edited by Duncan Edwards
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15 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Can someone please mention St Andrews Hall? I’m playing PinkUn Bingo and I’m down to the last phrase. 
 

Thanks in anticipation. 
 

GPB. 

There is 'on the verge of administration' in spades on the Bilic thread if you need that one...🧐

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OP

Could you explain which part of the plan either is not working or is on track as I can only see stuff that has happened ahead of the plan.

1. We were near administration and were told over the next 3 years we would have no debts - Achieved after 1 year.

2. We were told the club would be run without risk to it being destroyed - Achieved even after the Pandemic, had we had not been in the financial situation we were, COVID would have been the last straw to our club

3. We were told that we would have a world leading training / academy after 3 years - Achieved after 18 months

4. We were told 3 would see us producing ONE multi million pound player a year that would keep the club in a financially secure position - Achieved 10 times over

5. We were told we would be promoted after 3 seasons - Achieved after 2 seasons

6. We were told that when we were promoted there would be a likelihood of going up and down for a number of seasons - Achieved to date

7. We were told that the person achieving 4 would be sold to keep us financially secure and our squad would gradually be added to - In my view Achieved as we built a team from the Maddison money to get promoted and then then last year gave that squad the chance to keep us up.

8. We were told over 5 years there would be ground expansion if most of the above were achieved - That seems to be on track as we have now bought and own the relevant land.

9. Players would be brought in who were going to be big names before they got injured, giving them the chance to resurrect their careers with little risk to us - I would say achieved with Krul, Pukki, Hernandez, Byram if he stays fit, whilst those that haven’t cut the mustard were quickly moved of our budget, some moving for a profit.

If what we have done to date is so bad why are people remotely bothered about wether we sell any of our players as 7 of those were pretty much regulars in a team that performed worse ( the same people keep pointing out ) than any Norwich side before them. 
Maybe I have missed something ? Which part of the plan is not on track at the moment ? Had we have finished 6th when we got promoted, then destroyed the Championship last year would you be claiming Webber was a failure now ?

One last point we have had parts on here of the Bilic interview. It scoots round the fact that what he said was ‘ our players ( meaning the wba players, not our players ) are more suited to the Premier league, in fact when we played Newcastle 3 of my players came to tell me you get lots more space in the premier league ‘. Word for word that sounds exactly like we thought and did.

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5 minutes ago, Well b back said:

OP

Could you explain which part of the plan either is not working or is on track as I can only see stuff that has happened ahead of the plan.

1. We were near administration and were told over the next 3 years we would have no debts - Achieved after 1 year.

2. We were told the club would be run without risk to it being destroyed - Achieved even after the Pandemic, had we had not been in the financial situation we were, COVID would have been the last straw to our club

3. We were told that we would have a world leading training / academy after 3 years - Achieved after 18 months

4. We were told 3 would see us producing ONE multi million pound player a year that would keep the club in a financially secure position - Achieved 10 times over

5. We were told we would be promoted after 3 seasons - Achieved after 2 seasons

6. We were told that when we were promoted there would be a likelihood of going up and down for a number of seasons - Achieved to date

7. We were told that the person achieving 4 would be sold to keep us financially secure and our squad would gradually be added to - In my view Achieved as we built a team from the Maddison money to get promoted and then then last year gave that squad the chance to keep us up.

8. We were told over 5 years there would be ground expansion if most of the above were achieved - That seems to be on track as we have now bought and own the relevant land.

9. Players would be brought in who were going to be big names before they got injured, giving them the chance to resurrect their careers with little risk to us - I would say achieved with Krul, Pukki, Hernandez, Byram if he stays fit, whilst those that haven’t cut the mustard were quickly moved of our budget, some moving for a profit.

If what we have done to date is so bad why are people remotely bothered about wether we sell any of our players as 7 of those were pretty much regulars in a team that performed worse ( the same people keep pointing out ) than any Norwich side before them. 
Maybe I have missed something ? Which part of the plan is not on track at the moment ? Had we have finished 6th when we got promoted, then destroyed the Championship last year would you be claiming Webber was a failure now ?

One last point we have had parts on here of the Bilic interview. It scoots round the fact that what he said was ‘ our players ( meaning the wba players, not our players ) are more suited to the Premier league, in fact when we played Newcastle 3 of my players came to tell me you get lots more space in the premier league ‘. Word for word that sounds exactly like we thought and did.

Get out. We don't do logical, sensible posts here.

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14 hours ago, Well b back said:

OP

Could you explain which part of the plan either is not working or is on track as I can only see stuff that has happened ahead of the plan.

1. We were near administration and were told over the next 3 years we would have no debts - Achieved after 1 year.

2. We were told the club would be run without risk to it being destroyed - Achieved even after the Pandemic, had we had not been in the financial situation we were, COVID would have been the last straw to our club

3. We were told that we would have a world leading training / academy after 3 years - Achieved after 18 months

4. We were told 3 would see us producing ONE multi million pound player a year that would keep the club in a financially secure position - Achieved 10 times over

5. We were told we would be promoted after 3 seasons - Achieved after 2 seasons

6. We were told that when we were promoted there would be a likelihood of going up and down for a number of seasons - Achieved to date

7. We were told that the person achieving 4 would be sold to keep us financially secure and our squad would gradually be added to - In my view Achieved as we built a team from the Maddison money to get promoted and then then last year gave that squad the chance to keep us up.

8. We were told over 5 years there would be ground expansion if most of the above were achieved - That seems to be on track as we have now bought and own the relevant land.

9. Players would be brought in who were going to be big names before they got injured, giving them the chance to resurrect their careers with little risk to us - I would say achieved with Krul, Pukki, Hernandez, Byram if he stays fit, whilst those that haven’t cut the mustard were quickly moved of our budget, some moving for a profit.

If what we have done to date is so bad why are people remotely bothered about wether we sell any of our players as 7 of those were pretty much regulars in a team that performed worse ( the same people keep pointing out ) than any Norwich side before them. 
Maybe I have missed something ? Which part of the plan is not on track at the moment ? Had we have finished 6th when we got promoted, then destroyed the Championship last year would you be claiming Webber was a failure now ?

One last point we have had parts on here of the Bilic interview. It scoots round the fact that what he said was ‘ our players ( meaning the wba players, not our players ) are more suited to the Premier league, in fact when we played Newcastle 3 of my players came to tell me you get lots more space in the premier league ‘. Word for word that sounds exactly like we thought and did.

All very nice but could you please clarify precisely when or by whom we were told any of the long list of things we gave listed above?

Fans seem to have fabricated this so called “plan” to fit circumstances as far as I can see. Genuinely interested in seeing the interview/interview where thus was all set out?

 

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Apart from the club will be run within its means bit obviously. We’ve been told that til the cows come home. 

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19 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Apart from the club will be run within its means bit obviously. We’ve been told that til the cows come home. 

So, despite that bit being accepted as fact, and all the other points being made at various times by SW ....really cant be ar$ed to trawl back to prove it to you. You wont accept that this is how we are rebuilding the Club,from solid foundations, upwards. If you dont understand then thats your problem, not the Clubs.  The reason that the Club reiterates, time and again the bit about being run within our means is that SOME PEOPLEJUST DONT GET IT. 

Honestly Jimbo you sound like a whinging kid who has been told by his parents, that they cant have a shiny new bike for christmas, but thinks that saying 'i want one' enough times, will get his way.  

Maybe  thats how it works  in your house, it certainly doesnt in mine. ...... or Webbers, it would seem.  

 

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37 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

So, despite that bit being accepted as fact, and all the other points being made at various times by SW ....really cant be ar$ed to trawl back to prove it to you. You wont accept that this is how we are rebuilding the Club,from solid foundations, upwards. If you dont understand then thats your problem, not the Clubs.  The reason that the Club reiterates, time and again the bit about being run within our means is that SOME PEOPLEJUST DONT GET IT. 

Honestly Jimbo you sound like a whinging kid who has been told by his parents, that they cant have a shiny new bike for christmas, but thinks that saying 'i want one' enough times, will get his way.  

Maybe  thats how it works  in your house, it certainly doesnt in mine. ...... or Webbers, it would seem.  

 

I understand it fully. I’ve always understood it but:

1. we are doing it so the owners can retain ownership and hand the club on to Tom without putting any money in; and

2. at premier league level it makes us uncompetitive, particularly when we won’t even take a small “calculated risk” as has been alluded to elsewhere.

i haven’t seen any credible posters saying we should spend hundreds of millions (Or “do a Villa”) under these owners. We know we can’t. That said this summers approach still took it to extremes/laid bare the disadvantage we are putting ourselves at in comparison to clubs with wealthier backers. 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I understand it fully. I’ve always understood it but:

1. we are doing it so the owners can retain ownership and hand the club on to Tom without putting any money in; and

2. at premier league level it makes us uncompetitive, particularly when we won’t even take a small “calculated risk” as has been alluded to elsewhere.

i haven’t seen any credible posters saying we should spend hundreds of millions (Or “do a Villa”) under these owners. We know we can’t. That said this summers approach still took it to extremes/laid bare the disadvantage we are putting ourselves at in comparison to clubs with wealthier backers. 

 

That is a fair assessment. 

Getting promoted is needed every few seasons to keep the system going, but equally, it puts pressure on the Smiths because we don't spend any money because of the former. That is the main reasons why their tenure cannot succeed, which never gives the club a chance. 

I'm pretty sure on record that Delia has stated that the club is no better off by getting promoted because of the increase in expenditure etc. While that is somewhat disingenuous, there is some truth to that too. Again, another reason why the club needs a financial backer. 

Edited by komakino
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1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

I understand it fully. I’ve always understood it but:

1. we are doing it so the owners can retain ownership and hand the club on to Tom without putting any money in; and

2. at premier league level it makes us uncompetitive, particularly when we won’t even take a small “calculated risk” as has been alluded to elsewhere.

i haven’t seen any credible posters saying we should spend hundreds of millions (Or “do a Villa”) under these owners. We know we can’t. That said this summers approach still took it to extremes/laid bare the disadvantage we are putting ourselves at in comparison to clubs with wealthier backers. 

 

Yes, and?

As I said earlier ,keep whining , maybe you can hassle Delia and SW into getting you that shiny new bike.

Then you could do something useful with it like Wolfo and raise a few quid.

PS. They are majority shareholders, not owners. You have also had that explained to you several times before. 

We will take a 'small calculated risk' as you so innocently call it, when we can afford to do so.

Patience Jimbo, patience. 

 

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One last thing to add. There are reports today of at least 12 Championship and L1 clubs ( in addition to Wigan ) in serious trouble. I would assume none of those are us ?. If so wether you consider we got there by luck or very good judgement you have to concede the road the board took was the correct one. If our value of players mentioned by Webber for the kids alone is correct then not only have we survived the pandemic but we have assets almost exclusively developed by ourselves of £120m ( Cantwell, Godfrey, Aaron’s, Lewis, Bundeia ).
I would again challenge the op to explain to us which part of the plan has failed ? When we will have our club left in tact when many others will see their club destroyed.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, komakino said:

pretty sure on record that Delia has stated that the club is no better off by getting promoted because of the increase in expenditure etc. While that is somewhat disingenuous, there is some truth to that too. Again, another reason why the club needs a financial backer. 

Which is exactly why we didnt spend much, to put a bit of money behind us, to spend this and next season. Its called doing things differently to that which we have done in the past. Thanks for answering your own point....even though im not sure you knew you were.😉👍😇 

We are backing ourselves. Wasnt so painful , was it?

Patience,  Karmachameliono, Patience.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

NCFC spin doctors are on form tonight. 

Is this meant to be a response to Well b back's long and detailed post? If so it translates as,

"I can't answer with any of the points made but rather than admit I'm wrong, I'll make a snide remark!"

Edited by Badger
Clarified

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33 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

at premier league level it makes us uncompetitive, particularly when we won’t even take a small “calculated risk” as has been alluded to elsewhere

It has been alluded to constantly but never substantiated.

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19 minutes ago, Well b back said:

One last thing to add. There are reports today of at least 12 Championship and L1 clubs ( in addition to Wigan ) in serious trouble. I would assume none of those are us ?. If so wether you consider we got there by luck or very good judgement you have to concede the road the board took was the correct one. If our value of players mentioned by Webber for the kids alone is correct then not only have we survived the pandemic but we have assets almost exclusively developed by ourselves of £120m ( Cantwell, Godfrey, Aaron’s, Lewis, Bundeia ).
I would again challenge the op to explain to us which part of the plan has failed ? When we will have our club left in tact when many others will see their club destroyed.

And it will mean nothing if we don't get promoted again, because if any of those clubs in trouble do manage it, then they'll get the riches of the Premier League. Other clubs being stuck in the brown stuff only benefits us if we can use our supposedly superior financial position in the Champs to win promotion. If we don't, it will quickly evaporate.

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16 minutes ago, Well b back said:

One last thing to add. There are reports today of at least 12 Championship and L1 clubs ( in addition to Wigan ) in serious trouble. I would assume none of those are us ?. If so wether you consider we got there by luck or very good judgement you have to concede the road the board took was the correct one. If our value of players mentioned by Webber for the kids alone is correct then not only have we survived the pandemic but we have assets almost exclusively developed by ourselves of £120m ( Cantwell, Godfrey, Aaron’s, Lewis, Bundeia ).
I would again challenge the op to explain to us which part of the plan has failed ? When we will have our club left in tact when many others will see their club destroyed.

The main reason that one of the clubs won;t be us is the parachute payments. If those in the know about "the plan" are to be believed then we got promoted too early so should possibly still have been a championship club last season and possibly without access to the parachute payments. Had that happened then we undoubtedly would have been one of the 12 clubs who mention who are in serious trouble.

Ok we may have been able to hold a fire sale of our playing assets to survive (so credit where its due for developing those) but it would not have been pretty.

As things are though I do accept that we, along with perhaps half a dozen other championship clubs, are in a good position financially in comparison to the rest of the division that should give us a major advantage next season (and I am confident that with the squad we have we have enough to be right up there) and of course running sustainably gives us more security in hard times than clubs who operate unsustainably have. That said a global pandemic is an extreme scenario and some of those in financial trouble may be so through no real fault of their own.

I just don;t accept that there is this sophisticated 5 year "plan" that some seem to cling to and which encompasses relegation as part of it. Our model, which is all that we can do really if we won;t go into debt and the majority shareholders won't put anything in, is just about buying cheap, developing players and selling them on for a profit. That's not really as ground breaking as is portrayed.

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3 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

And it will mean nothing if we don't get promoted again, because if any of those clubs in trouble do manage it, then they'll get the riches of the Premier League. Other clubs being stuck in the brown stuff only benefits us if we can use our supposedly superior financial position in the Champs to win promotion. If we don't, it will quickly evaporate.

We cannot think of the 'Premier leagues riches' as you so naively put it untill we have put the Club into good order. Im sure your thinking is well meant , but the riches you speak of quickly evaporate  on fees , wages etc unless we promote from within and make smart aquisitions. You seem young enough to have the time to be patient. The will? Well thats up to you of course.  

Were backing ourselves, that takes resolve. Mines in good order, hows yours?

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12 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

We cannot think of the 'Premier leagues riches' as you so naively put it untill we have put the Club into good order. Im sure your thinking is well meant , but the riches you speak of quickly evaporate  on fees , wages etc unless we promote from within and make smart aquisitions. You seem young enough to have the time to be patient. The will? Well thats up to you of course.  

Were backing ourselves, that takes resolve. Mines in good order, hows yours?

I work on results. So far, ours have been mixed. Being promoted by surprise was an opportunity we should have seized, instead we chose to accept failure on the basis that we'd get promoted again. In this business there are zero guarantees of that happening, the Champs is littered with relegated clubs that expected to get promoted back to the EPL straight away and don't manage it, only to slide into obscurity. I don't want us to be one of those clubs. As our majority shareholders will not put any money into the club in order to fund players or infrastructure, the only way we can sustainably operate as a club of this size is to regularly promote and sell promising young talent, or get promoted and earn the EPL TV money. it goes without saying that the EPL money is not just worth more than the players, it allows you to keep the talent so you can compete and stay in that division. If we could manage to stay in the EPL for just a couple of seasons we'd bank enough cash to not have to worry about selling every time we go down.

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43 minutes ago, Badger said:

Is this meant to be a response to Well b back's long and detailed post? If so it translates as,

"I can't answer with any of the points made but rather than admit I'm wrong, I'll make a snide remark!"

Hardly that much of a snide remark. 

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Well, our esteemed true saviours of the club, who are our much envied and respected in football circles 'Magnificat Majority Shareholding Duo' have been at our club's helm since 1996.....I reckon that's only an ickle quarter of a century - which is around and about 4 x 5 year plans?  So I guess we just have to keep loyally tuggin' at our fast fading forelocks, remain patient a little while (ad infinitum) longer, suck it up until our club's finally in 'Good Order'.....When will that be? Probably when Neppers Tom is eventually given the reins of the Club.....Patience is a virtue.....

But If I was a Carrion Vulture I'd probably say..... 'Bugga this, I'm gonna bl00dy kill something!'..... 

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7 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I work on results. So far, ours have been mixed. Being promoted by surprise was an opportunity we should have seized, instead we chose to accept failure on the basis that we'd get promoted again. In this business there are zero guarantees of that happening, the Champs is littered with relegated clubs that expected to get promoted back to the EPL straight away and don't manage it, only to slide into obscurity. I don't want us to be one of those clubs. As our majority shareholders will not put any money into the club in order to fund players or infrastructure, the only way we can sustainably operate as a club of this size is to regularly promote and sell promising young talent, or get promoted and earn the EPL TV money. it goes without saying that the EPL money is not just worth more than the players, it allows you to keep the talent so you can compete and stay in that division. If we could manage to stay in the EPL for just a couple of seasons we'd bank enough cash to not have to worry about selling every time we go down.

Nearly right,if we'd stayed up without laying out too much, great, if we hadnt stayed up but had layed out , then wed have joined the ranks of those in trouble, who ' invested in staying up' . We didnt have that luxury. We did what was smart for us on the resources we have.  Those resources need building before a realistic sustained attempt at the prem. 

With your last couple of statements in your post it seems that you understand,  but just dont like it. That's tough. You say you 'work on results'....good buzz words, very Impressive, is that long term or short term?  A couple of days ago I asked Jimbo how long the race between the Tortoise and the Hare was , he didnt answer.

You say we should have seized the chance,  a very easy thing to say. Not so easy to acheive. But you know that really , dont you. Everything was clearly explained by those who actually do run the Club, more than once. Had they ignored their own stated policy and still failed to stay up, would you say 'more money needed' or 'they dont know what they are doing' ?   

 

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2 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Well, our esteemed true saviours of the club, who are our much envied and respected in football circles 'Magnificat Majority Shareholding Duo' have been at our club's helm since 1996.....I reckon that's only an ickle quarter of a century - which is around and about 4 x 5 year plans?  So I guess we just have to keep loyally tuggin' at our fast fading forelocks, remain patient a little while (ad infinitum) longer, suck it up until our club's finally in 'Good Order'.....When will that be? Probably when Neppers Tom is eventually given the reins of the Club.....Patience is a virtue.....

But If I was a Carrion Vulture I'd probably say..... 'Bugga this, I'm gonna bl00dy kill something!'..... 

Good job youre just a powerless troll on a message board then isnt it? Clown.

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Just now, wcorkcanary said:

Good job youre just a powerless troll on a message board then isnt it? Clown.

Ooh get you!....Diddums dunna likey me?....Oh I'm so hurty wurty.....

 

image.jpeg.54d8fee08aaa6670cefe256be659cdbc.jpeg
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3 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Ooh get you!....Diddums dunna likey me?....Oh I'm so hurty wurty.....

 

image.jpeg.54d8fee08aaa6670cefe256be659cdbc.jpeg

Ha ha, dont know you chap , so liking or not doesnt come into it. You want to be liked?  Yes? No?  Your reaction says needy.  Diddums.

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Just now, wcorkcanary said:

Ha ha, dont know you chap , so liking or not doesnt come into it. You want to be liked?  Yes? No?  Your reaction says needy.  Diddums.

I gauge your reaction....That retort and not one word with a patronising platitude letter 'o' attached to the end of it...o...?.....Gosh you must be really frustrated and annoyedio....Aw Diddums.....io....

Feet together place, and you just 'Crack on!'....or should that be (an' if you're really from the Emerald Isle)....'Craic on?'....

 

 

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